Verizon Planning to End Grandfathered Unlimited Data Plans With LTE Switch

[gri]

Verizon has cast the first stone.

I'm awaiting AT&T's announcement next week.

And since this is the only thing which keeps me from switching they will loose more than one customer I guess...

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Hey, its actually good for you - LTE means faster connection so you would be using your iPhone even more and get socially deprived (real human contacts, remember). So, now since you are faster you will use the limited plan faster and spend therefore less time on the iPhone digging the world wide web.

 

[rgravell]

Exactly, and he didn't cover his butt with future changes or upgrades. If we want to ask we need to ask NOW if "upgradeability" from 3G phones to LTE concerning the Unlimited data plan AND changes in phones from LTE to any other LTE device on the unlimited plan will be covered in indefinently with any upgrade in phones and change in unrelated (shared) plans. Because if what I said in my previous post is true, they will be able to change the plans of people even if they are on LTE.

i just contacted them asking about honoring grandfathered data for 3G/4G and through any future upgrades. when i get my response, ill post it.

 

[lhotka]

I love how this is being spun.

If you want to *change plans* from 3G to 4G you have to migrate to shared data. You can keep your same 3G unlimited data plan (obviously you have to keep a 3G device with it).

No different than when we migrated from analog to digital - you could keep your analog plan as long as you kept your analog phone. Why is anyone surprised?

A more accurate headline would be:

Verizon announces LTE data plans: 3G data users have a choice to stay on 3G or migrate to 4G

 

[rgravell]

They didn't steal anything from you. You agreed to pay the 30$ and your son has decided not to use any of the data. Verizon did not force the data on you.

I love it when people say stuff like this.

i already called it out. he made his point clearer a few posts later.

 

[lhotka]

Have you read the contract?

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't something in there saying VZW can do this without voiding the contract.

I'm not saying there is, but they pay lawyers to cover there ass in a situation like this so it's likely it won't void it.

They aren't changing your contract - you can stay on 3G with unlimited data, using your 3G device until the 3G network is turned off.

Moving to a 4G device is a *new contract*

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The problem is that Verizon wants to switch their entire network over to 4G in the next few years. 3G will cease to exist on Verizon.

Not a surprise. How many analog phones are still out there?

 

[Lara F]

I upgraded to a Verizon iPhone 4 from a dumbphone right before the deadline on the understanding that unlimited data would be grandfathered to LTE. Yeah, I'm pissed. At the time they had only the HTC Thunderbolt, Samsung Charge and maybe some LG phone available for LTE, and I doubt sales of those prior to the deadline were enough to hurt Verizon now. This is so obviously timed to pre-empt iPhone owners from upgrading to the LTE version.

Even though AT&T essentially took away unlimited with throttling (so I'm not too upset at having lost the plan), it irks me to know that I could have been enjoying HSPA+ speeds on a 4S for the last 6 months. The one saving grace was that an old voice plan combined with employee discount made it cheaper than AT&T.

I may not switch right away, but Verizon certainly lost my longterm loyalty for whatever little that's worth.

 

[techiegirl]

I upgraded to a Verizon iPhone 4 from a dumbphone right before the deadline on the understanding that unlimited data would be grandfathered to LTE. Yeah, I'm pissed. At the time they had only the HTC Thunderbolt, Samsung Charge and maybe some LG phone available for LTE, and I doubt sales of those prior to the deadline were enough to hurt Verizon now. This is so obviously timed to pre-empt iPhone owners from upgrading to the LTE version.

We switched from AT&T to Verizon at the same time you did and were told the same thing. When they discontinued unlimited LTE data, we were told that we were grandfathered and we would be able to switch from 3G to LTE and still retain our unlimited data.

 

[WB2Colorado]

So, does this mean that since I bought my phone when unlimited data was still offered and am still under contract, that I can cancel without ETF because they changed the terms of the contract? Because I will gladly change over to Sprint.

 

[Ivabign]

They didn't steal anything from you. You agreed to pay the 30$ and your son has decided not to use any of the data. Verizon did not force the data on you.




I love it when people say stuff like this.

This also goes in addition to the other person I quoted:

When you sign up for the service, you agree that Verizon has the ability to change ANYTHING about their service that they want. When you sign up you agreed to their terms. If their terms said that they had the right to your firstborn daughter for religious sacrifices, and you signed it, you just agreed to that. It's your fault for signing it.

Also, good luck trying to legally avoid paying the ETF. If you can avoid the fee legally you will win everything ever.

EDIT: This was also probably a premature announcement. All carriers have to do this sometime. Verizon just jumped the gun in saying it. I knew this was coming long before.

I think that if Verizon wanted my first born child - I could find a way out of it.

There, I've given your post as much thought as you did mine.

My issue is that I was told by Verizon that adding a data plan to a feature phone on the last day of unlimited data availability was the only way to ensure that when the iPhone 5 (or whatever they call it) came out that I would be able to transfer the unlimited data to the new phone. By now announcing that the switch to a new phone will cancel the unlimited data on that line, I feel I have been mislead.

Simply throwing up your hands and lamenting that the big bad phone company can always do anything they want to you at any time
is of no assistance - and is wrong. Trust me, you can get a good deal done with a customer service department if you are persistent and patient.

That is the plan.

 

[mac.cali]

We switched from AT&T to Verizon at the same time you did and were told the same thing. When they discontinued unlimited LTE data, we were told that we were grandfathered and we would be able to switch from 3G to LTE and still retain our unlimited data.

Same here for me. I'll be mad as hell if they back out and won't let me out of my EFT.

 

[thatoneguy82]

Skimmed through the posts, but the thread was long. I just wanted clarification or someone who thinks that this change affects upgrades. Anyway, my sister has a iPhone 4 w/ VZW and unlimited data. If she were to upgrade to the newest iPhone (assuming it will have LTE), her unlimited data plan will be removed? What if she just upgrades to a non-LTE device?

 

[dl-mac-user]

jeez what is the point

why dont these mobile companies spend money on expanding their networks rather than trying to out advertise the other guy

1. Do you have *any* idea of the costs of installing and operating even a single cell site? It isn't easy or inexpensive to just "expand the network", or everyone would do it. Also, there are a limited number of radio frequencies to be used, and in high density areas, the spectrum is becoming very crowded. This is where the problems are, and this is where the cell providers need to find a way to free up bandwidth. The only way to do that is to discourage people from using it, and the only way to do that is to make them pay for it if they really need it.

2. Why should they expand their available data time, when they aren't making anything on it as is, and demand is growing rapidly with new, high-bandwidth apps? This is the same problem that even land-based networks are running into: in order to afford the expanding bandwidth requirements, they need to cover costs. That means finding a way to bill more, and the only way to do that is limiting access and charging for the excess. So, if grandma is just getting e-mail, she is charged little, but if Johnny is playing WOW, Skyping (or Facetiming), watching a Netflix movie, etc, he pays more. That's fair, isn't it?

really wish Apple would start its own network ...

...and 3. Like Apple really wants in on the mess that is Cellular! And would we *really* want Apple to have control over the network? I bet Skype, Hulu, Vudu, Netflix, and the Amazon store would be really, *really* slow on that network! Net Neutrality would not apply (as it doesn't now to mobile networks), and, even more importantly, it would be a private network with public choices available. Therefore, they could do whatever they want, and there would be no legal protections.

I know it's frustrating, but there's lots of issues at work here. Don't be surprised to see the other carriers move this way also, after the marketing potential is all used up...

 

[PacificBeach]

Although I can't find the statement to cite it, the current rules with the FCC concerning Verizon's LTE spectrum state that no matter the device using the LTE plan, you can use the LTE Data plan in any device you choose when you switch the LTE SIM between devices. You can probably find the citation in the Verizon iPad using the unlimited data plan threads.

Right now Verizon is trying to sell their LTE Class A and B Spectrum, and buy the Class C spectrum from "cable companies". If they do that, will the new Class C spectrum that they buy have the same rules? Has the FCC stated the rules yet? And if the rules change, will people that have an LTE Android device be able to switch their LTE SIM into the new LTE iPhone? Or does that rule require changing SIM's for all LTE spectrum, no matter the class?

They might be trying to get rid of that spectrum (and selling that LTE rule to some other company) because of that rule, so that people with an Android device can't switch without changing to a new tiered/shared plan.

Just a thought.

VZW already owns Nationwide Block C LTE Spectrum, they are selling Block B and A for some AWS spectrum.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=187&p=230

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...ils-proposed-700-mhz-spectrum-sale/2012-05-16

 

[PacificBeach]

If AT&T follows suite - it will just make my switch to T-Mobile a lot easier as the one thing keeping me is unlimited data.

http://www22.verizon.com/idc/groups/public/documents/adacct/jpmorgan_verizon_2012.mp3

Here is actual vzw conference mp3, the unlimited stuff is around 9:00 mark

 

[aneftp]

Basically sums it up. In the future, if you want a better deal that doesn't bend you over you'll need to move to Europe or some other place in the world. Let's hope there's some unforeseen dynamic that changes this horrible trend. It's ok if they drop unlimited as long as we get reasonable tiered shared data plans like 1GB/500 text messages for $5, 2GB/1,000 text messages for $10, 3GB/1,500 text messages for $15, etc. (yes, text messaging should be part of the data plans).

In your dreams with those plans.

In reality. Family shared data plans will be first two lines $50-60/5GB. Than for every line after that. It will cost you $10-15/per line and you will still share that same 5Gb data.

Verizon has done the math already. They want at least on average $20/month per line on data with a minimum of $50 for first two lines.

Believe me. Family data will not be cheap especially for the first two lines.

 

[tdar]

1. Do you have *any* idea of the costs of installing and operating even a single cell site? It isn't easy or inexpensive to just "expand the network", or everyone would do it. Also, there are a limited number of radio frequencies to be used, and in high density areas, the spectrum is becoming very crowded. This is where the problems are, and this is where the cell providers need to find a way to free up bandwidth. The only way to do that is to discourage people from using it, and the only way to do that is to make them pay for it if they really need it.

2. Why should they expand their available data time, when they aren't making anything on it as is, and demand is growing rapidly with new, high-bandwidth apps? This is the same problem that even land-based networks are running into: in order to afford the expanding bandwidth requirements, they need to cover costs. That means finding a way to bill more, and the only way to do that is limiting access and charging for the excess. So, if grandma is just getting e-mail, she is charged little, but if Johnny is playing WOW, Skyping (or Facetiming), watching a Netflix movie, etc, he pays more. That's fair, isn't it?



...and 3. Like Apple really wants in on the mess that is Cellular! And would we *really* want Apple to have control over the network? I bet Skype, Hulu, Vudu, Netflix, and the Amazon store would be really, *really* slow on that network! Net Neutrality would not apply (as it doesn't now to mobile networks), and, even more importantly, it would be a private network with public choices available. Therefore, they could do whatever they want, and there would be no legal protections.

I know it's frustrating, but there's lots of issues at work here. Don't be surprised to see the other carriers move this way also, after the marketing potential is all used up...

Well your right about one thing, there are a lot of issues here. Before you start telling others that they don't understand , you might want to make sure that you do.

1) It does cost a lot of money to run a cell network, and they are getting paid a LOT of money to do so. Verizon has over 93 million customers that pay $70 + a month or so ($6.5 billion a month). In the first quarter of 2012 their DATA revenues were up 21% alone, so they are making lots of money on data. As to there are no "frequency's" ,Verizon is looking to SELL spectrum space that they already own and are trying to acquire other spectrum that they will most likely be allowed to control. This does not even begin to describe the other technology advancements that could be deployed to reduce congestion, such as WiFi deployments.

2) As I noted Data revenue is up over 21% in first quarter 2012 alone, so if you think they are not making money on data, I'm not sure why you think that are in this business. While it may seem fair to expect that someone who uses their phone fully, should have to pay more that someone who does not, It not quite that simple. To fully understand that, you have to understand how these networks are constructed and how the cost per byte is structured. The actual cost for wholesale internet has been dropping for about as long as the internet has existed. So a provider like Verizon sees the cost of internet data go down over time and by a huge amount. So as the cost drops have they passed that savings on to you in any way? Much of their network is in fact capitalized and the marginal cost is going down. What has driven them to the 93+ million users base that they enjoy is the ever increasing number of things that you can do with that data. So is it good business to penalize your most advanced customers and try to change the rules of the game by complaining that when we offered you unlimited data we did not expect you to use it? In the world of today, there is a real limit to an ever rising price structure.

3) That brings me to your 3rd point. Yes, Apple does want to run the network . If they could do so they would have already. Steve said so in the book. In time, you will see that Apple ,Google and Microsoft will realize that leaving their fate in the hands of greedy carriers is not a good business plan and they will, I believe, move to offer an option that is more in THEIR interests and ours. Newer technologies will offer such an option.

 

[Nostromo]

hahahaha! man that was a good one.

the answer to your question is they too busy having a bbq with all the bribes the telcos give them.

I love the bbq idea, but think they have long been at the champagne stage of their relationship.

 

[Spectrum Abuser]

I think I speak for the majority of us when I say we saw this coming all the way back in June of '10 as the unlimited data dream began it's steep die off. I'm surprised AT&T hasn't done this already as they were the first to throttle with T-Mobile following closely behind and Verizon shortly after T-Mobile.

 

[penajmz]

Getting a new contract with Sprint is looking better and better since my contract ended already. Lets see if AT&T grandfathers me to LTE.

 

[Sweetfeld28]

Unlike GSM phones, where it's a simple matter of pulling the SIM card out of the old phone and inserting it in the new phone, with Verizon there isn't any (domestic) card you can pull out of the old Verizon phone and pop into your replacement.

Your current Verizon plan is tied to the your CDMA-based phone by its built-in electornic serial number. If you want to switch to a new phone, you must inform Verizon about the change and they must take actions on their end to approve the change and implement it inside their system.

At the point where you submit your request, they will probably just inform you that your existing contract isn't compatible with the new phone, so you'll have to change it.

This is partly incorrect. As I have changed phones multiple times, without contacting VZW. I have done this from a RAZR, to a Droid, to my current iPhone.

All you have to do is, buy/find a another phone, dial *228 then activate your new phone, which will then update your account to the phone you are activating... thus inactivating the original phone.

Its that easy.

 

[slippery-pete]

Classic....Wait, I thought only At&t did stuff like this

 

[rgravell]

Skimmed through the posts, but the thread was long. I just wanted clarification or someone who thinks that this change affects upgrades. Anyway, my sister has a iPhone 4 w/ VZW and unlimited data. If she were to upgrade to the newest iPhone (assuming it will have LTE), her unlimited data plan will be removed? What if she just upgrades to a non-LTE device?

while thats the thought as to what will happen when upgrading from 3G to 4G, no one here can offer up any proof of what will happen 100%. as for 3G to 3G, again, no one knows. the fact is were all offering up ideas as to what COULD happen. the only thing thats 100% is verizon now wants out of unlimited data.

 

[dampfnudel]

In your dreams with those plans.

In reality. Family shared data plans will be first two lines $50-60/5GB. Than for every line after that. It will cost you $10-15/per line and you will still share that same 5Gb data.

Verizon has done the math already. They want at least on average $20/month per line on data with a minimum of $50 for first two lines.

Believe me. Family data will not be cheap especially for the first two lines.

Yeah, it looks like the only dreams coming true these days are those of Verizon and AT&T executives.

 

[JimAtLaw]

Expect the same from AT&T - I have a grandfathered unlimited laptop connect plan on AT&T and they refuse to allow it to connect to the LTE network at all even with an LTE compatible device. They told me the only way they would provision my account for LTE connectivity is to switch to a capped plan.

Yes, you heard that correctly, AT&T is already doing the same thing, I have experienced it personally.

 

[tdar]

Yeah, it looks like the only dreams coming true these days are those of Verizon and AT&T executives.

Don't forget the Wall Streeters...They are the real drivers here.