Very frustrated with my MBP

[casperes1996]

To cover some of the points raised, most of the software I need can be either replaced with alternatives, or has a version for Linux - i.e. I am not as attached to MacOS as I once were. I've decided to install a few distros on my MBP in separate partitions (thanks casperes1996 for the suggestions!) as that seems a safe, no-cost way to find out if I can live with the OS change.

You're welcome. Let me know if you need help with Linux. Whilst I lack a lot of Windows knowledge, I know my way around the Unix world .
First thing to remember if you're new to Linux; If you want to download a new piece of software, you don't go to the website and click download like you might do on Windows or even macOS (if you don't use brew).
You use the repository, either through the app centre or apt in Terminal. - Which also gives 1 universal place for all software updates.

 

[Airboy1466]

LOL Stop trying so hard... Even Apple has admitted to the keyboard issue. And in case you haven't noticed USB C three years on is still not a standard, and now they are talking about a newer better USB 4 that will be more widely adopted for a variety of reasons.

Listen guy no one is being a try hard, I never said the keyboard wasn’t defective but what he is describing is not being able to use the keyboard effectively not dust or debris being caught underneath the keys preventing or causing anything.

 

[pshufd]

Listen guy no one is being a try hard, I never said the keyboard wasn’t defective but what he is describing is not being able to use the keyboard effectively not dust or debris being caught underneath the keys preventing or causing anything.

I don't know of any high-end Windows laptops that are USB-C only. Most have USB-A, HDMI, Ethernet and a proper power port, even with USB-C ports. One reason I like the previous generation is the ports.

 

[casperes1996]

Indeed, apple is quite happy at selling a 4 year old used laptops near the price of a brand new MBP. Looking at it from another angle, its a sad state of affairs that Mac fans are willing to pay top dollar for such an older Mac. Its quite telling how far Apple has fallen in design and execution of the current generation.

4 year old laptops at high prices you say? That's nothing! The Mac Pro is sold at ludicrous prices and it's around 6 years old

 

[pshufd]

4 year old laptops at high prices you say? That's nothing! The Mac Pro is sold at ludicrous prices and it's around 6 years old

Dave Lee did a video - he bought an old Mac Pro for $1,300 - it has a six-core Xeon (2.5 Ghz I think), dual video cards and 32 GB of RAM. I think that it only had 256 GB of SSD. That seems like a lot of money but at least you don't have to worry about the keyboard, speakers, throttling, touch bar, and video issues.

I have found some old PowerMacs on Craigslist for free - you just have to pick them up. I may give mine away similarly. My guess is that they were used at Biotech companies given the location.

 

[zarathu]

I thought I could run Linux instead of the mac interface. For two years I used a dell running Linus Ubuntu, until I just got tired of it. Linux is generally about 5-7 behind the times, and its just dull. Also, I can do things faster in the mac. You do need to know that buying and 2013-2015 will make you susceptible to the Kext shutdown and might have to deal with that. But other than that, my 2014(late 2013 build) has all the ports, and at 2.6 i7 is a screamer for everything I do. I would not get a current model if this breaks.

Sell what you have on the open market, and get this one with an HDMI output, currently the 14th fastest macbook pro on the planet.

 

[pshufd]

I thought I could run Linux instead of the mac interface. For two years I used a dell running Linus Ubuntu, until I just got tired of it. Linux is generally about 5-7 behind the times, and its just dull. Also, I can do things faster in the mac. You do need to know that buying and 2013-2015 will make you susceptible to the Kext shutdown and might have to deal with that. But other than that, my 2014(late 2013 build) has all the ports, and at 2.6 i7 is a screamer for everything I do. I would not get a current model if this breaks. I would buy a refurbished one from Powermax or even Apple.

You take a risk with old hardware. I bought a 2011 which died a month later. But I'll take a 2014 or 2015 over the current crop - as two of them handle my current needs. I'd even look at a Mac Pro.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"I appreciate some of the suggestions about trying different cables or monitors - trust me, I have. My main constraint is that when I visit client offices or even our own meeting rooms, I unfortunately need to work with the equipment provided - which I might add, works perfectly on any older Macbook. My wife has a similar job requirement to me and the 2014 model, and tells me it works everywhere, every time.
The battery issue may just be a mis-perception, I will admit that I haven't done any "scientific" test.
The single issue I cannot live with is the broken connectivity, I literally have to constantly borrow someone else's old Mac in order to complete some of my planning sessions with the team - the rest I could "live with" for a while. That said, living with such basic faults on a £2700 machine is quite a tough pill to swallow!"

My suggestion and solution:
- Sell the MBP you have now for whatever you can get for it
- Buy an Apple-refurbished 2015 15" MBP from Apple's online store:
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/2015-macbook-pro
It will have 1-year warranty and you can buy AppleCare to extend the warranty to 3 years.

And then... be a happy Mac user again!

 

[zarathu]

You take a risk with old hardware. I bought a 2011 which died a month later. But I'll take a 2014 or 2015 over the current crop - as two of them handle my current needs. I'd even look at a Mac Pro.

Yeah if you buy it used. I bought mine with a 1 year warranty which I paid $99 for. This is what I currently have and what I would buy again, since its the still the 14th fastest MBP: https://www.macofalltrades.com/shop...pro/macbook-pro-15-inch/?_bc_fsnf=1&Year=2013

 

[Falhófnir]

Whilst some people report their machines working flawlessly, the 2016+ generations have been subject to many well documented and known issues, including much of what you describe, though the ports issue is a new one to me.
With almost each new iteration of the product, Apple have semed to suggest that a portion of the issues have been fixed, but with each generation, many still persist as well.

For now, I would recommend not going the MBP route (either Air or MacBook as alternatives) or going with a 2014-2015. Some people have reported flawless operation as mentioned, and for those, the newer machines are great, but the issues may just be too big a risk for a lot.

As mentioned, i'd personally rather go back to an older Mac than jump ship, but macOS is fairly important to me.

If it's not as big a deal to you, I can highly recommend Linux Mint, Ubuntu Mate or ElementaryOS.

It's a really common problem with USB C becoming loose over time and compromising the connection, surprised you haven't heard of this. Though, oddly I hear about it more often with Apple's devices... I wonder if the specific way they've implemented the ports aggravates the already inherent design issue?

 

[pshufd]

Yeah if you buy it used. I bought mine with a 1 year warranty which I paid $99 for. This is what I currently have and what I would buy again, since its the still the 14th fastest MBP: https://www.macofalltrades.com/shop...pro/macbook-pro-15-inch/?_bc_fsnf=1&Year=2013

They have very good prices.

 

[Lee_Bo]

Whilst some people report their machines working flawlessly, the 2016+ generations have been subject to many well documented and known issues, including much of what you describe, though the ports issue is a new one to me.

I'm waiting for this to bite me in the hiney, but I'm one of those 2016 MBP users who are not having any issues with USB-C connections or keyboard issues, ad I use my MBP daily for processing photos (photography).

 

[casperes1996]

Dave Lee did a video - he bought an old Mac Pro for $1,300 - it has a six-core Xeon (2.5 Ghz I think), dual video cards and 32 GB of RAM. I think that it only had 256 GB of SSD. That seems like a lot of money but at least you don't have to worry about the keyboard, speakers, throttling, touch bar, and video issues.

Whilst true the Mac Pro hasn't had nearly the amount of issues of the MBP, it has had GPU failures and power supply whining issues.
Specifically I am only talking about the 6.1 nMP, as Apple still sells it for a ridiculous price considering its age.

I have found some old PowerMacs on Craigslist for free - you just have to pick them up. I may give mine away similarly. My guess is that they were used at Biotech companies given the location.

That's a good deal. I've never found a free Mac, but I have paid (very little) for some PowerPCs. iMacs and iBooks mostly.

I thought I could run Linux instead of the mac interface. For two years I used a dell running Linus Ubuntu, until I just got tired of it. Linux is generally about 5-7 behind the times, and its just dull. Also, I can do things faster in the mac. You do need to know that buying and 2013-2015 will make you susceptible to the Kext shutdown and might have to deal with that. But other than that, my 2014(late 2013 build) has all the ports, and at 2.6 i7 is a screamer for everything I do. I would not get a current model if this breaks.

"Dull" and doing things faster in one OS versus another is all subjective, but Linux being 5-7 (I assume you wanted to write years?) behind everything else, is insanely wrong.

With many things, Linux has been first to market. Spaces as we know it on macOS originated as Workspaces on CDE and has been in most major Linux DEs.
Logical volume grouping like offered by Core Storage started as a Linux technology.
Basically everything good about APFS comes from btrfs.
The idea of a centralised app repository, app store and package manager is something Linux does incredibly well and no other desktop platform can compete with. With homebrew on the Mac it's about the same, but it's a Linux first.
Many of the advantages that was brought forth when Apple rewrote the display manager with Metal was inspired by Wayland on Linux. Now Apple made a stable product first, but the ideas originated in Linux.
Much of the security used by macOS originates from Linux including KAISER.

But actually, about the subjective point that it is "dull". How can it be? When everything can be just the way you want it, and there are so many desktop environments to choose from? If you find it dull, swap it out

 

[mdbradigan]

FWIW - I bought a 2018 13" MBP and was very disappointed to find I only got ~ 4 hours battery life out of it. I got on chat with apple support and, after a bunch of diagnostics, they asked me to bring it in to an Apple store. I'm 2 hours away from one, so they gave me the option for a pre-paid shipping box. They sent the box 2 days later, I send off my MBP and 3 days after that, it was back with a brand new top-case, and a battery that lasted ~7-8 hours. Still not "all day" - but massively better. Apple support was excellent. You might want to check to see if any issue here; if so - they will take care of you.

 

[casperes1996]

It's a really common problem with USB C becoming loose over time and compromising the connection, surprised you haven't heard of this. Though, oddly I hear about it more often with Apple's devices... I wonder if the specific way they've implemented the ports aggravates the already inherent design issue?

I guess it mostly comes down to just not clicking in on complaint articles about the newer designs so often, because I already know I'm not getting one anyway. Dunno

 

[zarathu]

But actually, about the subjective point that it is "dull". How can it be? When everything can be just the way you want it, and there are so many desktop environments to choose from? If you find it dull, swap it out

It was my experience running Ubuntu for 2 years. Just little apps I use everyday and easily put on in the apple OS didn’t exist easily in the Linux world. And getting Oracle virtual box to run a snug little copy of XP for the one app I need that will never be made to run in apple world or Linux world, was insanely hard.

If you are software engineer, then modifying and changing things in Linux is just plain fun. My son is a PhD level senior software engineer, and he just loves Linux for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

[Nbd1790]

Purchased a 2018 15 inch model with some good specs (32gb RAM 1tb SSD) with an employee discount. That was in August so couldn't pass up the opportunity. Didn't experience keyboard issues or any of the mentioned issues, but also wasn't using it as my daily driver. Frequently got the spinning pinwheel with only a browser open and Spotify (would sit like that for almost 30 seconds at times) and had frequent crashes with my DAW (Ableton).

Got rid of it, got what I paid for it and picked up a used 2015 model and somehow it runs Mojave smoother than my almost maxed out 2018 model. I know the processing power is superior on the 2018 model, but how a 2015 model can run day to day tasks smoother (including boot time) is a concern to me. Also haven't run into any issues using Ableton or Photoshop. Much happier now with the "new" 2015 model.

 

[Airboy1466]

I don't know of any high-end Windows laptops that are USB-C only. Most have USB-A, HDMI, Ethernet and a proper power port, even with USB-C ports. One reason I like the previous generation is the ports.

And this is what I meant by what you do is more suitable for an older generation Mac, I personally have no problems with usbc most of my products now are usbc type so for me I have better integration and for when I do need an HDMI which is very rare because of AirPlay 2 and casting again for your needs you should sell it and get something that fits your needs such as a 2015

 

[casperes1996]

It was my experience running Ubuntu for 2 years. Just little apps I use everyday and easily put on in the apple OS didn’t exist easily in the Linux world. And getting Oracle virtual box to run a snug little copy of XP for the one app I need that will never be made to run in apple world or Linux world, was insanely hard.

Well that's not really an issue of being dull though. That's an issue of a lack of software and user-friendliness.
Though I find that the lack of software point more often than not has more to do with finding different tools to do the same thing than it does a task being unaccomplishable. You may not be able to get app "X", but you can get app "Y" that does the exact same thing.
Regarding Virtual Box, it should be configurable in the exact same way as on macOS, so that sounds strange.
But I'm not saying your experiences aren't valid of course.

If you are software engineer, then modifying and changing things in Linux is just plain fun. My son is a PhD level senior software engineer, and he just loves Linux for all the reasons you mentioned.

Yes. I can't avoid my own bias as well, as a computer science student. Though my bias is strongest with Apple, I favour any Unix system, and have a lot of love for Linux and the BSDs.

 

[turbineseaplane]

you should sell it

..and take a serious bath in doing so..

ouch.

 

[Mendota]

I went through option b) in 2015. My rMBP from 2012 had developed a bad case of image retention and I was in doubt if I should continue with Apple products, especially when I needed Windows for work anyway. I bought the cheapest Surface Pro 4 to test the waters on the other side of the fence. Everything seemed to work well besides the not so great performance. I bought the best version of the Surface Pro 4 and was quite happy with it for a while, until I lost patience for these reasons:
1) The Surface Pro was less than optimal to be used in a train or other places without a big enough table.
2) Changes in company security prevented me to access the local ethernet in my home office when connected by VPN to the company net.
3) Windows 10 updates all the time.
4) With only 2 cores the company mandatory Symantec virus scanner took away too much performance and made the fans spin all the time. At the end of using this Surface I illegally deinstalled the virus scanner (I still had the Windows defender default version).
5) The Microsoft dock regularly failed to put my external monitor to sleep or wake it up

Today I would chose your option a): At the end of 2016 when I learned about Apple's redesign of the MacBook Pro, I bought a 2015 model that I still have, recently upgraded to a 2TB SSD with a Syntech adapter. This MBP removed all the bad issues mentioned above:
1) Can be used on the lap in a train.
2) I run Windows in a virtual machine (Parallels) and the VPN connection from Windows doesn't disturb the Mac's ethernet access at home.
3) Mac updates are few and during Windows updates I can still use macOS
4) No virus scanner for macOS, Windows uses now a less bothersome version
5) no more monitor issues through the Thunderbolt dock which also provides all legacy connectors (see below).

Just for the record: I currently use a MBP 2017 with only 4 Thunderbolt ports (therefore the dock mentioned above). From the issues you have with your Macbook, I can only confirm this:
1) Keyboard is less than stellar. I also miss keystrokes from time to time, but all keys seem to work normal.
2) Battery less than stellar when hooked to an external display because of the eGPU permanently on.

My USBC connectors seem still OK after about 1 year of use. Performance is much better than on my 2015 model. Maybe you could also check (besides the recommendations already given by others) if your SSD if almost filled up?

Leaving the Apple eco system told me how convenient this is when you also have an iPad, an iPhone and more than one MacBook. Some of this also works in the Windows world, but not as seamless by far.

I can appreciate you preferring MacOS and that can be reason enough, but many of the issues you listed were not the fault of Microsoft or Windows. Instead of getting a Surface Pro you should have purchased a Surface Book, then the issue on the train would have been non existent. The so called Symantac virus scannner has long been a bad joke and is unneeded. And buying the least powered Surface Pro and complaining about it's performance is as ridiculous as buying a Macbook 12 and complaining that it doesn't perform as well as a MacBook Pro. And it fact things are very seamless in the Windows world, but you do have to buy the right things.
[doublepost=1557346103][/doublepost]

Listen guy no one is being a try hard, I never said the keyboard wasn’t defective but what he is describing is not being able to use the keyboard effectively not dust or debris being caught underneath the keys preventing or causing anything.

His post was very clear about keys not registering, and that is the classic symptom of keyboard failure in the new Macs. Your response was laughable, implying that maybe he shouldn't use the USB ports too much?

 

[sosumi99]

Since you’re not dependent on any Mac-only software (sadly, not my case), I think you should switch away from Apple. I don’t believe the issues you mention will go away even if you bought another MBP this year. Enough is enough, and you don’t need to struggle against a tool that’s supposed to help you get your work done.

 

[Plutonius]

Since you’re not dependent on any Mac-only software (sadly, not my case), I think you should switch away from Apple. I don’t believe the issues you mention will go away even if you bought another MBP this year. Enough is enough, and you don’t need to struggle against a tool that’s supposed to help you get your work done.

Read through various forums on different sites. Windows laptops generally seem to also have many issues and I don't believe that you can find any make / model laptop now without issues.

I would almost skip getting a laptop and instead get a tablet and desktop.

 

[Mendota]

Read through various forums on different sites. Windows laptops generally seem to also have many issues and I don't believe that you can find any make / model laptop now without issues.

I would almost skip getting a laptop and instead get a tablet and desktop.

I don't know what forums or places you visited but most of the top Window machines don't have anywhere near the issues that the current Macs have. There are people on these very forums that are using Think pads, Surfaces, Dells, and HP's that are very happy. I think you are trying to hard to try and make Apple look better by implying others are the same... They are not.

 

[whg]

I can appreciate you preferring MacOS and that can be reason enough, but many of the issues you listed were not the fault of Microsoft or Windows. Instead of getting a Surface Pro you should have purchased a Surface Book, then the issue on the train would have been non existent. The so called Symantac virus scannner has long been a bad joke and is unneeded. And buying the least powered Surface Pro and complaining about it's performance is as ridiculous as buying a Macbook 12 and complaining that it doesn't perform as well as a MacBook Pro. And it fact things are very seamless in the Windows world, but you do have to buy the right things.

In fact, when I upgraded from my entry level Surface Pro (which was just a test device), I considered to buy the Surface Book, but the display wobble made me stay with the Pro line. The Symantec virus was not my idea (it was mandatory by the company I work for). They now use a different product which is less intrusive. The performance of the i7 Surface Pro was very good (I didn't complain about that). By the way, I owned the first 12" Macbook, and I even liked it when travelling. The main problem with the 12" was the bad performance when hooked up to an external display in the office (very choppy scrolling etc.). Performance on the internal display was good enough for my work!

I doubt that the Windows world is as seamless at on the Apple side. I had an Android phone and tablet and appreciated the empowerment (compared to Apple's walled garden). Maybe things are better now, but a couple of years ago I couldn't even find a good eBook reader with an English-German dictionary. I often work from home and have to participate in WebEx conferences. On Windows I still have sound problems that don't exist on macOS, even on the same notebook. Skype in Windows is ugly and full of advertisements, which didn't yet make their way to the Mac version. Color calibration is much better integrated in macOS than in Windows. This is very important for my work and private use as a photographer. I probably could continue with this list, but everyone has to find what is better working. At the end it was the sum of all the little things that made me come back to Apple, even with the currently less than optimal product range.