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No one, but no one is saying the APV can cause mental health issues. That’s false. As for those with pre-existing conditions, my sympathies go out, but what are you proposing that we ban anything that can be misused (like too much tv) , or ban loud music for the hearing sensitive, or lets ban all peanuts because a lot more people have peanut allergies than isolating tendencies. Your concern is misplaced at best. Don’t ban the technology, help the people. Come up with solutions not whine about the unfairness of it all. That’s why I’m still laughing. Not at those with real problems but those that create problems.
While I get your point, there is nothing false in my statement, nor misplaced. And nobody is whining. I don't like the tech much. Having spent the last three years working in crypto, working remotely, and heavily encouraged to dive into AR environments, I can only say from experience, they are not healthy from a social perspective.

We are already seeing a mass breakdown in the ability of adolescents to interact with one another. Tablets and smartphones give another social form of interaction, but often, it's highly toxic, and I'd also argue it's hugely beneficial. I've seen it time and time again, people are often glued to their smartphone displays and remain completely disconnected from everything happening around them. We laugh and joke, but it's a serious decay in our society. To remain healthy, humans by nature need to socialise and interact physically with one another. Children in today's world are finding this harder and harder to do, and I already see some of these traits in some of the younger people I employ.

Parents are considered "radical" and "controversial" when they ban or even limit technology to stimulate social interactions, but they are probably doing the right thing. Device addition is like any other addiction, and we should all be conscious of this.

Now, back to the Vision Pro. It's an incredible piece of technology, but let's not kid ourselves. Apple wants us to get hooked on this technology, and this is just the start. "Spacial Computing" is a marketing term for Augmented Reality. Apple wants to add the soft-touch to their hardware and make it feel as though they want us to remain in the analogue realm. But the reality is you are far from it when using this technology. It detaches you totally from reality and isolates your senses in a small field of view.

I'm not saying all people would be affected, but it can draw introverts further away from a healthy social environment and isolate them. That's not a good thing. It can mask dangers, as outside observers have no idea what the user is actually looking at. (Children, for example, could be interacting in areas that are positively dangerous to them, and the guardian would be completely oblivious to everything).

Pornography will be incredibly toxic and incredibly dangerous to children in these environments. How does Apple plan to safeguard against that? Grooming is another area that can be hidden in this realm.

Now, I'm not saying it's all bad news. There are huge benefits to AR and there are studies to show PTSD can be improved through AR treatments, and there are many other benefits, but there are dangers too, and vulnerable people need to be protected.

On the final point, I ask you not to put words in my mouth. I've never suggested at any point that we should ban technology, but there needs to be safeguards and education in place, as quite frankly, people are too ignorant to understand how negative and damaging certain technologies can be.

Anyway, I'm interested in trying it in my local Apple shop in a couple of months when the queues die down. I wouldn't ever buy one, though, and I would never recommend anyone get one either. It's bad enough walking into my lounge on Christmas day to find the entire family sat down glued to their phones, not talking to each other. The last thing I need is an entire family zoned out in an entirely different realm to reality. But, I suppose I will always have control of the Wi-Fi in my home... :)
 
I’ll reserve judgement until I actually try one on, but I’m thinking EyeSight is likely going to be the next TouchBar. Seems gimmicky, uncanny, and honestly a little rude if you can’t take the headset off to talk to someone from the reviews I’ve seen. Expect it to be removed in the next version or two unless they’ll find a real use for it.
 
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Thank you for such an elaborate answer, but we're talking about Apple here. Are they know to be malicious dirt bags and mischaracterize the product?
No, but we are not talking about Apple 30 years ago under the leadership of Steve Jobs. There is no longer anyone at Apple who takes everything that happens as a personal reflection on themselves and has the authoritarian mindset to impose their values on everyone. We are talking about Apple today, when it is so big that bad Apples are inevitable.
 
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Why is everyone ripping on the personas? How else can you be represented in a FaceTime call without a camera facing you? Even if there was a camera facing you, you still have this thing strapped to your face. What are we expecting here?
I think people are expecting you to just call in if you don't want to show your face. Nobody wants to see this.
 
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To be fair, connecting with my Mac and having an obnoxiously large HD display overlaid on the camera feed works fantastic on the Quest 3 using meta's app. Not sure about the data privacy side of things, but from a technical standpoint, it's pretty flawless on my less than ideal WIFI setup. And you can "take" the screen with you to the bathroom, you just "grab" the virtual display so it doesn't stay locked in place, mute your microphone and stay in your work call while taking a magical number 2 in a virtual zen garden.
 
I think people are expecting you to just call in if you don't want to show your face. Nobody wants to see this.
I think there is a difference between "can't" and "won't".

Picture this. You are currently using your Vision Pro as a giant display for your MacBook and working on editing a video or a giant spreadsheet. Someone decides to zoom or FaceTime you. You could either remove your Vision Pro just so you can zoom from your laptop screen (thus breaking your flow), or you could accept the video call on your Vision Pro, thereby allowing you to still use the larger field of view for referencing data while talking to the other party.

And I won't really say "nobody". How many things we take as granted for today were once considered weird or against the natural world order once upon a time? If we want digital personas to be a thing, then we will have to be the ones to usher in said world order.
 
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The concept of email, messages and the internet appearing as giant floating windows actually in my home environment is genuinely terrifying to me. I absolutely do not want to turn around to pet my dog or make a cup of tea and be confronted by a huge spreadsheet of my VAT payments that I forgot to minimise! The thought of all those notifications, unanswered messages and ads actually looming and floating in my own personal space is the stuff of nightmares.

a-clockwork-orange-still-3001157389.jpg

The Vision Pro Ultra Max.
 
The concept of email, messages and the internet appearing as giant floating windows actually in my home environment is genuinely terrifying to me. I absolutely do not want to turn around to pet my dog or make a cup of tea and be confronted by a huge spreadsheet of my VAT payments that I forgot to minimise! The thought of all those notifications, unanswered messages and ads actually looming and floating in my own personal space is the stuff of nightmares.

View attachment 2343798

The Vision Pro Ultra Max.
I completely agree. It's one of the worst features of the Apple Watch. That constant reminder and vibration on my wrist is horrific. It's because of this, they are all turned off. Imagine having that, quite literally, thrown into your face!!! Horrific!
 
While I get your point, there is nothing false in my statement, nor misplaced. And nobody is whining. I don't like the tech much.

Got that part. You don't like the tech :)
Having spent the last three years working in crypto, working remotely, and heavily encouraged to dive into AR environments, I can only say from experience, they are not healthy from a social perspective.

Not healthy for you. Other's mileage may vary. Anecdotal arguments dont sway me. I can say from over 30 years of experience too much ethanol is not healthy either, but I don't call for prohibition.
We are already seeing a mass breakdown in the ability of adolescents to interact with one another. Tablets and smartphones give another social form of interaction, but often, it's highly toxic, and I'd also argue it's hugely beneficial. I've seen it time and time again, people are often glued to their smartphone displays and remain completely disconnected from everything happening around them. We laugh and joke, but it's a serious decay in our society. To remain healthy, humans by nature need to socialise and interact physically with one another. Children in today's world are finding this harder and harder to do, and I already see some of these traits in some of the younger people I employ.

While I know you are sincere, and I dont disagree with you, my response is .. 'so?' are you out there crusading against all smart phones, tablets, and computers (you left that out, but they were the start of this digital freedom to physically isolate. I am a solution orientated person, and this is a tech discussion space. Maybe its the place to bring up social concerns, maybe not, but at least bring a solution to the table or you are part of the problem.
Parents are considered "radical" and "controversial" when they ban or even limit technology to stimulate social interactions, but they are probably doing the right thing. Device addition is like any other addiction, and we should all be conscious of this.

and now we get to the meat of it. the parents are letting society down. to me its an extension of participation trophies etc. Society is letting the parents down by essentially taking away their power to parent. oh we have the legal responsibilities, but society has always been the one with the power, for centuries. this is not a new problem. So great device addiction is real. but so what is your solution?
Now, back to the Vision Pro. It's an incredible piece of technology, but let's not kid ourselves. Apple wants us to get hooked on this technology, and this is just the start. "Spacial Computing" is a marketing term for Augmented Reality. Apple wants to add the soft-touch to their hardware and make it feel as though they want us to remain in the analogue realm. But the reality is you are far from it when using this technology. It detaches you totally from reality and isolates your senses in a small field of view.

um. Apple is a business (like others) that has brought amazing tools to the general population to help us all be more productive. I am not with you if you are implying this is merely marketing on their part. Apple is just providing the tech, what we do with it is up to us. buying it is up to us. if its not useful, it will be forgotten. sorry. just not buying the evil Apple theme here.

I'm not saying all people would be affected, but it can draw introverts further away from a healthy social environment and isolate them. That's not a good thing. It can mask dangers, as outside observers have no idea what the user is actually looking at. (Children, for example, could be interacting in areas that are positively dangerous to them, and the guardian would be completely oblivious to everything).

like computers. like cell phones. like tablets. and heck social cliques and groups before tech existed. there is always ways to pull people down the wrong path. shrugs. I just dont understand why you feel the need to single out the APV in all this. and if this is NOT singular to the APV, why here?
Pornography will be incredibly toxic and incredibly dangerous to children in these environments. How does Apple plan to safeguard against that? Grooming is another area that can be hidden in this realm.

omg not pornography! you can get pornography on this device? little Johnny can see digital boobies? again, what is it about the APV that makes you think it will be any more enabling than computers, phones, and tablets?! I would almost argue, as Patel tried to slyly do so in the often honored verge review (which made me roll my eyes) that a device controlled by hand gestures, this might not actually be the premiere porn device. cough cough. look I agree back in the day we had to find a sears catalog, and the internet has made it so much easier, but again, this just isn't and APV problem only.
Now, I'm not saying it's all bad news. There are huge benefits to AR and there are studies to show PTSD can be improved through AR treatments, and there are many other benefits, but there are dangers too, and vulnerable people need to be protected.

yeah no. or at least not the hard yes you seem to imply. Yes as a society we should take care of all people, but there is in reality a balance between progress and the vulnerable. The wonderful car we all love, has been the source of countless deaths. Modern medicine for all its glory does consume resources that has to be balanced. And dont get started on guns. It's all a balance unfortunately. Not going to raise the flag, save the vulnerable, over the APV.

On the final point, I ask you not to put words in my mouth. I've never suggested at any point that we should ban technology, but there needs to be safeguards and education in place, as quite frankly, people are too ignorant to understand how negative and damaging certain technologies can be.

Fair point. But do consider this is first and foremost a space to discuss technical issues, not societal. I think there are forums for that. So just my suggestion, if you are going to wave the sky is falling down flag (is that words in your mouth, or my perspective ?) it might be more engaging if you actually voiced some pro active actions we could all take, or some solution, or something that says to me the tech guy interested 'he is not just putting down the APV and yeah, I can help do that to make things better.' otherwise, to me, its just oh no, new tech, NOW the end is here. Cellphones with easy access to porn, communication apps that facilitate the sharing of personal porn, ditto with computers and tablets (still havent figured out how to get good porn on my watch), those are one thing, but the APV, THAT is the end!

Anyway, I'm interested in trying it in my local Apple shop in a couple of months when the queues die down. I wouldn't ever buy one, though, and I would never recommend anyone get one either. It's bad enough walking into my lounge on Christmas day to find the entire family sat down glued to their phones, not talking to each other. The last thing I need is an entire family zoned out in an entirely different realm to reality. But, I suppose I will always have control of the Wi-Fi in my home... :)

so why did you buy them cell phones? my family knows when we have get togethers, the phones stay in the pocket unless taking pictures. Sure, they reply to texts and what not, but they keep the phones down for the most part. Because I set guidelines. likewise, this vision that everyone is going to be addicted to their APV and sit in the living room isolated from each other, is ludicrous. Mine will be at my work desk. It will travel with me to use when I am alone. like my computer (like now, I travel a lot for work). There are lots of applications that do not include ignoring others.

but cool. you will never get one. your choice. but the APV is not the beginning of the end, that probably started hundreds of 1000's of years ago when Homo sapiens started to band together in a community. and the answer is not to say dont get it. the answer is to get society to start agreeing on guidelines. we are a communal animal. we stop listening to our parents when we discover a world full of people out there.

I set guidelines for my house. I promise you, I wont allow my sons to watch pornography in front of their mother when they come visit. Not on their phones, tablets, computers, or APV if they get one. What what they do in their own bedroom is up to them. Society has to deal with that reality and by and large it is by sending out healthy messages on respecting people. Porn isnt the problem. Its people not having respect for themselves or others.

Whew. sorry everyone.

how about that battery life? (and no thats not a reference to BOB)
 
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This product is marketed to folks like me who have disposable income. However, folks who have the money like me to afford this are also money-wise and it’s a hard justification to buy something like this in this economy…. Especially given Apple’s history of bringing new products to the market, and then slashing the price a few generations in. If this has a strong trade-in value, then MAYBE I could see myself jumping on it. Perhaps trading in my iPad Pro as well towards the cost because I don’t see myself needing it if I had this.
 
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I’ll bite. Just not this gen… but when it comes time to replace my MBPro and/or my iPad Pro, I’ll be keen to see how it’s improved/changed from the first gen (and its creepy uncanny valley EyeSight). I can definitely see how this will change computing, if it survives. If it doesn’t… then we’ll have to wait another decade or so for its rebirth. Absolutely will be a computing paradigm shift… at some time.
 
I'm really curious about Vision Pro from a blind person's POV. I don't have vision in one eye, so depth perception requires movement achieve parallax. The remaining vision in my other eye prevents me from reading standard text and seeing detain in objects, depending on lighting, contrast, and size variables. On top of all that, I have a red-green color deficiency.
What I'm intrigued by is the potential of Vision Pro to have accessibility features bridge gaps. For instance, on the Mac, I use Zoom to read short snippets of texts, identify objects, and view things in focused-detail. However, just like a microscope: the higher the magnification, the less field of view. Zooming out at fluid speed allows me to quickly regain my orientation on the screen, locate things, move to that area, and zoom-in on that area. I also use text-to-speech (VoiceOver, but less verbose and on-demand) to read out longer passages of text.
I'd like to be able to use Vision Pro to augment my real world, in similar ways that macOS and iOS have done in the virtual world. For instance, telling Siri what I'm looking for or showing her an image, then using Vision Pro to "look" for that, akin to how Siri and Finder work together. Search-and-find is not my favorite game, so being able to locate and identify things, similar to describing it to someone and using their eyes to look for it would be a game-changer. Good examples of this are finding a misplaced shoe, locating a can of chicken noodle soup amongst a fully-stocked shelf at the grocery store, and distinguishing between a red and green light on a device, just to name a few.
I'm looking forward to trying on a Vision Pro to see if it would augment my visual impairment or if the visual impairment would inhibit its use/features. Would love to have Dan@Macrumors detail the accessibility in a video.
 
No, but we are not talking about Apple 30 years ago under the leadership of Steve Jobs. There is no longer anyone at Apple who takes everything that happens as a personal reflection on themselves and has the authoritarian mindset to impose their values on everyone. We are talking about Apple today, when it is so big that bad Apples are inevitable.
Are you being hypothetical? What examples from Apple's marketing come to mind?..
 
It's a freaking glorified VR headset...come on. I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt that with their clout and developer base they will be able to develop something compelling that will attract consumers, but there are a lot of other competitors in the space as well and it's not like this is the first VR headset out there. What surprised me the most were all the sloppy corners Apple cut, that terrible looking top strap after marketing the rear strap for so long, the lack of a 12 cent plastic belt clip on the battery, the really creepy looking avatars in chat, and I'm still baffled why they used glass and metal in the front to make it heavier just to give people creepy eyes. Creepy eyes that they embellished on marketing material to look much cooler than reviewers are showing. And everything white? Man those units will be dingy and yellow/grey/brown in a few weeks at best. Sometimes I think Apple releases things in white because they know consumers will need new, shiny, white product replacements so quickly.

It makes me wonder at the market, everyone seems so down on foldables but they are still 1% of a 1.67 billion market. Even if Apple captured half of that 1% it would be 8+ million sales of something they could easily sell for $2k. I don't know, I just feel very disappointed as an investor. We can pie in the sky on what this product will look like and function in x amount of years, but it's all conjecture until it's not.
 
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if I had the choice I probably would have stuck with Mii characters. as far as the eyes externally go, just give me the option for anime, cartoon or googley eyes, not that creepy drugged look...
 
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It makes me wonder at the market, everyone seems so down on foldables but they are still 1% of a 1.67 billion market. Even if Apple captured half of that 1% it would be 8+ million sales of something they could easily sell for $2k.

I really hope they are investing in the foldable R&D to come up with a compelling offering there.

As an iPhone Mini user, I'm basically stuck on the 13 Mini (I wan't nothing that is bigger in any way at all).
 
I completely agree. It's one of the worst features of the Apple Watch. That constant reminder and vibration on my wrist is horrific. It's because of this, they are all turned off. Imagine having that, quite literally, thrown into your face!!! Horrific!

Conversely, I have friends who are ADDICTED to their Watch and love love love every notification for every thing at all times.

I don't know how they live that -- stresses me out even thinking about it.
 
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