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astranovus said:
Hi yourself.
astranovus said:
((flame-suit protect-mode on :)))
Oh that's cute.
astranovus said:
i am one of the few converters, away from mac osx to vista ultimate
No you're not. No one who's left M$ ever comes back. You're an astroturfer employed by Microsoft.
astranovus said:
contrary to all rumors i haven't had a single glitch under vista
There's a form of excrement emanating from male cattle and you're full of it.
astranovus said:
drivers, kernel panics, system crashes ....
You know the words and deal with these issues daily. We'd be proud of you if you weren't such a devious creep.
astranovus said:
for me personally vista ultimate is faster
You think speed is going to impress us when your boss' platform has over 100,000 viruses in the wild? Besides: your boss' platform on Parallels on a GOOD (Apple) box is infinitely faster and you know it.
astranovus said:
more stable and the eye candy is better than tiger
Oh go away. Are you really so totally deranged that you think that by your saying this people will believe it? GET A NEW JOB. FAR AWAY FROM REDMOND.
astranovus said:
could it be that leopard was delayed bacause vista is actually a decent system
No it can't be. Now eat your own you know what and GO AWAY.
 
You sould be grateful that it runs at all and blame M$ for not making an UB version of it's Office.


You should thank Microsoft for providing Office for the Mac at all.. I don't think they're making an awfull lot of money with it.
 
Our IT Dept refuses to convert to Vista. One of our techs told me he just bought a laptop and had to un-install Vista and put XP on it because he was having to many problems. I guess it's a preference thing.

My work computer came with Vista Business. Its crap. It crashes a lot, and can't even do basic networking with XP machines. The Vista Ultimate costs nearly $400 too doesn't it?

And the eye candy is there, but it isn't functional. I understand you like Windows and whatever, but it is not a finished nor efficient OS.
 
hi,

((flame-suit protect-mode on :)))

i am one of the few converters, away from mac osx to vista ultimate,

contrary to all rumors i haven't had a single glitch under vista, drivers, kernel panics, system crashes ....

for me personally vista ultimate is faster, more stable and the eye candy is better than tiger,

could it be that leopard was delayed bacause vista is actually a decent system?

any comments welcomed

i've lived in a mac world all my adult life and have always had a windoze laptop around. The last one had Windows XP home on it and that, to me, was a typical PC interface experience.

My new PC laptop has Vista something something and the whole thing seems stable. But so did xp to me. Vista something something seems to be XP with some type of glass effect trying to make me verify everything I even try to do. Seems to me that that thing graying and demanding attention will get very lame very quick. It may also hang up some day doing it.

I'm patiently waiting for Leopard and if it were true that Apple held up Leopard because of Vista, Vista Light, Vista Whatever and Vista This, as per the conspiracy you're putting forth (what really is your motive) then I expect that Leopard would look more like Vista then Tiger and that would be a shame.

I agree with the guy who said it's a personal choice. It always has been. Always will be.
 
Hi yourself.

Oh that's cute.

No you're not. No one who's left M$ ever comes back. You're an astroturfer employed by Microsoft.

There's a form of excrement emanating from male cattle and you're full of it.

You know the words and deal with these issues daily. We'd be proud of you if you weren't such a devious creep.

You think speed is going to impress us when your boss' platform has over 100,000 viruses in the wild? Besides: your boss' platform on Parallels on a GOOD (Apple) box is infinitely faster and you know it.

Oh go away. Are you really so totally deranged that you think that by your saying this people will believe it? GET A NEW JOB. FAR AWAY FROM REDMOND.

No it can't be. Now eat your own you know what and GO AWAY.

Are you trying to gain respect from others by being a blind apple-fanboy? I already can't stand you. It's OK to be a fanboy, but you're one of the ignorant ones, who just piss me off. You're just like 'Oh! winoze is so crappy! looka t me, I HAVE AN APPLE!I'm KOOLE! PLEASE give me attetion!!'

four letters for you: ****
 
What the hell is this dude on about... how the hell would Leopard be delayed because Vista is "good". Even if Vista was good I still don't get how it would in anyway affect the devolpment of Leopard.

Leopard programmer:
"OWWW NOES VISTA IS BETTER THAN LEOPARD!!!!!!!!! WE BETTER STOP WORKIN ON LEOPARD BECAUSE VISTA IS BETTER!!!!!"
 
You should thank Microsoft for providing Office for the Mac at all.. I don't think they're making an awfull lot of money with it.

I heard (albeit a few years ago now) that Office for Mac was Microsoft's third most profitable product (behind Windows and Office for Windows).
 
I'm a little at odds as to why the OP would think the delay of an OS totally unrelated to Mac would delay Leopard :rolleyes: What have you read or heard that would even make you think that? That's like saying Audi aren't releasing they're new model because of Toyota....

If you like Vista then good on you and I hope you get what you need from it. But it seems you may have been fishing for a bit of a stir with this thread.

And let's not forget folks, M$ Word and Excel was originally developed for Macs. Windows wasn't around back then. It wasn't until Windows was released that Word and Excel were re-coded for windows.
 
Are you trying to gain respect from others by being a blind apple-fanboy? I already can't stand you. It's OK to be a fanboy, but you're one of the ignorant ones, who just piss me off. You're just like 'Oh! winoze is so crappy! looka t me, I HAVE AN APPLE!I'm KOOLE! PLEASE give me attetion!!'

four letters for you: ****

Hahaha. So true. Remember you need substance if you want to flame people :).
 
I just thought I'd say something for Vista.

I'm a mac user and always will be as I prefer the OS in general.

However, in my General User experience Vista is a lot faster than OS X at many things, especially web page rendering and just opening folders with lots of files (in fact, i was just playing on my iBook 366 G3 clamshell OS 9.2.2 and noticed how fast folder opening is on that too, why the step back with OS X?).

On the other side, doing stuff on windows is a logistical nightmare, with pop ups asking whether you need your bum wiped and what not.

So Vista Faster? Yes
Vista better? No.
 
What the hell is this dude on about... how the hell would Leopard be delayed because Vista is "good". Even if Vista was good I still don't get how it would in anyway affect the devolpment of Leopard.

Leopard programmer:
"OWWW NOES VISTA IS BETTER THAN LEOPARD!!!!!!!!! WE BETTER STOP WORKIN ON LEOPARD BECAUSE VISTA IS BETTER!!!!!"
Maybe the OP's thought was that Apple thought Vista really was better than they expected, so now they've delayed Leopard so that they can add additional features to Leopard (that they didn't plan on originally including) in order to make Leopard seem like a big leap over Vista.
 
Maybe the OP's thought was that Apple thought Vista really was better than they expected, so now they've delayed Leopard so that they can add additional features to Leopard (that they didn't plan on originally including) in order to make Leopard seem like a big leap over Vista.


Yes my friend that is exactly what I am trying to say, god knows where all the other stuff in the thread answers comes from.
 
I'm a little at odds as to why the OP would think the delay of an OS totally unrelated to Mac would delay Leopard :rolleyes: What have you read or heard that would even make you think that? That's like saying Audi aren't releasing they're new model because of Toyota....

If you like Vista then good on you and I hope you get what you need from it. But it seems you may have been fishing for a bit of a stir with this thread.

And let's not forget folks, M$ Word and Excel was originally developed for Macs. Windows wasn't around back then. It wasn't until Windows was released that Word and Excel were re-coded for windows.
Actually, windows was around back then.
Office 1.0was released in 1990for the mac, while windows 1.0 was already released in 1985(as a mere dysfunctional copy of the Mac OS).
the first Office designed for the windows platform was Office 3.0, in august 1992, just months after they released Office 2.0 for the Mac platform.
this was just a stunt so they could say to the costumers that the windows version was better, seen it was 3.0 while mac only had 2.0.
 
wow, the thread has become hostile quite fast. but that was (sadly) to be expected.

i'm sure that vista puts a lot of pressure on apple to make a better system. OS X is almost the only reason to buy apple hardware. so in a way vista forces apple to make a better system with more features and that takes more time. and vista (and also windows XP) is not that bad. if someone can take care of the system it will run just fine.

i doubt that that is the reason for this specific 4 month delay. i think that is more related to the complexity of the task and the necessary integration of the iphone and maybe stability issues.


my two cents.
 
wow, the thread has become hostile quite fast. but that was (sadly) to be expected.

i'm sure that vista puts a lot of pressure on apple to make a better system. OS X is almost the only reason to buy apple hardware. so in a way vista forces apple to make a better system with more features and that takes more time. and vista (and also windows XP) is not that bad. if someone can take care of the system it will run just fine.

i doubt that that is the reason for this specific 4 month delay. i think that is more related to the complexity of the task and the necessary integration of the iphone and maybe stability issues.


my two cents.
most honest, mature and true reaction in this thread :p
though I prefer the look and feel OSX, windows isn't that bad, as long as you can take care of it. in a way, you can say windows is a responsible people-only OS, while OSX is more (boy, I'm gonna get it for this one :p) fool-safe :p
sure, as a system on itself (so if you don't look at compatibility) , IMO OSX beats the crap out of windows on every aspect, but that doesn't mean windows is pure crap.
You can't deny MS has made Windows better with the release of Vista, compared to XP, so sure apple has to keep on making revolutionary things to maintain the distance between them and MS.

All in short: vista sure takes windows a step ahead, but IMO, Vista is still behind Tiger, and Leopard isn't delayed because of Vista. Leopard will kick the **** out of Vista :p
 
My brother goes to Belmont University in Tennessee, and they sent an email out to all students saying that no one is allowed to upgrade to Vista or Office '07, that it is considered an unstable operating system.

They even went as far as establishing a network-wide block that blocks Windows Vista from accessing the school network.

Oh well, 93% of the campus students (including my brother) use Macs. :)

whoops. you shouldn't lie...someone might know about it and call you on it!

...just so happens I know better. Campus IT sent out a message recommending that students and faculty hold off on upgrading to Vista until they were sure that the Belmont-specific applications that students often need to use are updated to properly work on a 32-bit system. Some of the old code is 16-bit, and Vista doesn't support 16-bit apps.

Furthermore, campus computer labs that run Windows will not be upgraded to Vista until new machines come in from their pc-based supplier, Dell. As new machines are purchased to replace old machines, they will be outfitted with Vista. Based on their upgrade schedule, this will be a 2-year process. This is because they are still running some hardware configurations in labs that don't support DirectX 9-level graphics. (a GeForce 5200 is better than most of these machines' integrated graphics chips!)

There is no network "blocking" of Vista in place. There is no restriction against using Vista in your dorm room or for faculty to use a Vista-based machine. But the school isn't officially supporting it until later this year from an IT standpoint.

There aren't many Macs available for "public" use at Belmont. The Humanities lab has Macs in it, and i think there are a couple more scattered around campus. A few of the students I know at Belmont use a Mac. It most certainly isn't "93%"!!! Why on earth would you go making this stuff up? Did you figure nobody who would read this had ever gone to Belmont, or maybe dated someone who goes there, or knew a guy who knew a guy? If your brother really told you that stuff, he lied to you. Otherwise, you're lying for him, which is lame. The two biggest labs on campus are in McWhorter and Massey. And they are full to the brim with stinkin' Dells.

http://www.belmont.edu/its/vista.html
That's a link to the current Belmont IT stance on Vista. They aren't outlawing Vista. They don't think it's an "unstable OS." They don't block it from the campus network. In fact, I encourage you to visit this link as well:

http://www.belmont.edu/its/laptop/index.html
Yes, folks, it's the Belmont New Student Laptop Program! The program offers 2 options:

For $1450, you can get a Dell Latitude D630, 2Ghz, 2GB, 80GB, 8X DVD±RW with 3-year on-site warranty and accident coverage and Windows VISTA BUSINESS EDITION preinstalled.

The other option is the 13" Macbook with 1 GB, 80GB for $1510.

The IT guys at Belmont that I know would recommend the Macbook mainly because you can also install Windows on it, which you can't legally do on the Dell. Sorry that I had to call you out, man.
 
vista is not a usability nightmare, i've moved straight from xp to vista with no hassle,

From what I've seen, that would make exactly one of you.

For the record, I have moved from XP to Windows Vista Ultimate on my home desktop computer. Is it working now? Yes... mostly. Do I regret the switch? Yes... deeply.

I didn't experience any kernel panics, and thankfully I didn't lose any data. however, it did take over two months to get my desktop anywhere close to the functional level I enjoyed under Windows XP.

Why? Device drivers. Or rather, the lack thereof. The windows world was and still is sorely unprepared for the x64 platform despite the fact that nearly all current desktops are made with 64-bit processors now, and the dearth of 64-bit drivers for simple things like sound cards, printers and scanners is appalling. Equally appalling is Microsoft's inability to get some elvel of backward compatibility with the bevy of 32-bit drivers that are out there for these same devices.

There are still some devices and components for which no drivers exist, and apparently never will exist. Some of those components happen to be embedded onto my motherboard. So for as long as I own this desktop (which is less than six months old, so it'll be awhile before I upgrade), I will forever be greeted with a "I couldn't find this device driver, what do you want to do?" message every time I boot my computer.

As for the Vista "eye candy," yeah, it's all right I suppose, but of no real functional use. I have noticed a performance decrease that comes from using the Aero glass interface on my desktop, even though the Windows Vista readiness tool assured me that it would work just fine on my machine. All in all, the pretty looks have slowed down my desktop somewhat.

Compare this to OS X. Each new version of OS X has added new features and more complex "eye candy," while running cleaner and performing better on older supported hardware. Newer operating systems that don't bog down older machines is unheard of in the windows world, yet it's a fact of life on OS X.

I could go on for pages about the issues I have with Vista. None of the issues are particularly crippling, but they are annoying, and the benefits of running Vista do not outweigh the significant drawbacks.

Frankly, the only reason I continue to use Vista Ultimate is because I was stupid enough to pay for it, and since there are no refunds once the software is opened, I feel as though I should at least try to get my money's worth.

That said, Vista and all of its deficiencies are the main reason I bought a MacBook Pro. It was time for me to upgrade my laptop computer, and after my ordeal getting Vista to work right, I was not about to spend more money on a laptop with the same deficiencies. And when I do finally buy a new desktop, it will probably be a Mac as well. Yes, the hardware is expensive, but so was Vista Ultimate, and frankly, I feel I more than got my money's worth with Apple.

Apple didn't convert me to Apple. Microsoft did.


regarding the new office 2007 ribbon,
all staff have to be trained when programmes have new features,
this is nothing vista specific

This I'll agree with you on. I actually like Office 2007 greatly, and can't wait for it to show up for the Mac. I thin the reluctance to adopt it is partly because MS associates it so much with Vista, and Vista has left such a bad taste in people's mouths. That and people automatically assume that the ribbon and new interface means it's going to be hard to re-learn. I've used Office since 97, and while I had my reservations with the new interface initially, those concerns disappeared in about 5 minutes. I needed no formal re-training to get comfortable.

to say vista is instabil and a user nightmare, is utter rubbish, with a bit of thoughtful forethinking, vista runs great

It's not utter rubbish at all. I'm not sure what hardware you're running or how you upgraded, but if you say you had absolutely no problems, I'd say you're either a liar or very, very lucky.

apple has an advantage as it only has to cater for a very limited range of computers, so stability should naturally be better,

This argument doesn't hold water. At the base, windows machines are equally narrow in their scope. In fact, often times the same factory that makes Dell hardware will also make HP or Gateway hardware. The only thing changing is the exterior cladding and brand markings.

This also doesn't explain that, after two service packs, XP runs quite stable under nearly all the hardware it runs on, yet the moment people try to run Vista, stability flies out the window.

i moved away from tiger as rosetta got on my nerves under office 2004, my macbook fan was virtually lifting off all the time,
sloppy programming

Yes, Microsoft was very sloppy in how they programmed Office 2004. Shame on them. :)

Bottom line: Was leopard delayed because Vista is a better OS? I doubt it, considering that I feel even Tiger is a far better OS that Vista is, after having used both. Apple has nothing to worry about. On the other hand, I am very concerned about what Microsoft is going to do about Vista.

If you ask me, Microsoft's Windows platform is suffering from a severe case of Second System Syndrome, and that's a very dangerous thing. Apple had this same problem back in the days of 68k processors and OS 7, and the only way they recovered was to buy NEXT, which ultimately resulted in what we now know as OS X. Microsoft seems too proud to do something similar, so I'm not sure how (or if) they will recover.
 
thank you for your mannered discussion "scaredpoet",

i take your point on some of the vista stuff,

i disagree on apple's advantage of only having to cater for very few computer lines rebuttle.

as far as my problem-free upgrade to vista goes,
perhaps i got lucky, but then again perhaps i read things up before i did it.

i just merely wanted to point out that upgrades are possible without any major catastrophes.

many people have stated that they have performance losses under vista due to aero,

performance gains from using multi-cores under vista outweigh this though, as this is an area xp is pants at.
 
many people have stated that they have performance losses under vista due to aero,

performance gains from using multi-cores under vista outweigh this though, as this is an area xp is pants at.

Have you got any evidence to back this claim up with though? XP Pro was designed to take full advantage of multiprocessor and multicore systems. There is no evidence to suggest that Vista handles multithreaded applications better than Windows XP Pro.
 
This week I asked a guy what his experiences were with Vista, he has used it, it was considerable slower then XP and he went back to XP.

His PC: P4 3.0Ghz, 1GB internal memory and a very good video-card.
Conclusion, Vista needs the core-duo, to have some acceptable performance.
Imagine, it needs a processor with 2 cores just to run the OS and to be able to compete with XP.

( Compare this with OSX which runs very decent on a G4/600Mhz )

:eek:

Windows at home. > After using OSX over an extended period of time, why even bother?
 
That's like saying Audi aren't releasing they're new model because of Toyota....
Their.

I'm not going to get into the debate whether or not this is true, but if it is true...it scares me. That means that they delayed the OS four months to add pointless "Vista-crushing" features.... which will go untested as the beta is released at WWDC. That doesn't sound like an Apple move...

[Realization... oops... i guess I did join the debate :p ]

-Vince
 
This argument doesn't hold water. At the base, windows machines are equally narrow in their scope. In fact, often times the same factory that makes Dell hardware will also make HP or Gateway hardware. The only thing changing is the exterior cladding and brand markings.

This also doesn't explain that, after two service packs, XP runs quite stable under nearly all the hardware it runs on, yet the moment people try to run Vista, stability flies out the window.

Every time a new release of OSX comes out i hear stories of people who have issues with it. So much so that people usually wait for the next point release before buying new versions. Sounds quite similar to Vista here. Then again Vista has been very stable for me.

As to your argument about Dell, HP and Gateway all being made in the same place. This is true to a point but they all use different hardware. Some of them use VIA based motherboards which can be very temperamental. Also they tend to use lower quality components than apple does which makes them more unstable.

Most problems with windows comes from poor hardware and drivers, not from windows itself. Most of the problems i see aren't from Dell computers but from custom made computers and computers bought in small shops. Whenever i see computers with windows problems they are usually built on a non intel based system.

Intel makes expensive hardware, but you get what you pay for in regards to stability. It's very rarely you see intel based computers having problems with windows. The most striking example of this is how well Windows runs on intel Mac's.

OSX runs on a few special made systems which apple guarantees to be of high standard and stable. Windows has to run on all these plus shoddy motherboards which are just unstable.
 
hi,

((flame-suit protect-mode on :)))

i am one of the few converters, away from mac osx to vista ultimate,

contrary to all rumors i haven't had a single glitch under vista, drivers, kernel panics, system crashes ....

for me personally vista ultimate is faster, more stable and the eye candy is better than tiger,

could it be that leopard was delayed bacause vista is actually a decent system?

any comments welcomed

Several of my colleagues, who each know about ten times more about operating systems than the average user, have tried Windows Vista and have switched back to Windows XP. I actually don't know anyone who switched from XP to Vista and stayed.
 
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