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Ohples

macrumors member
Aug 13, 2016
43
36
Raleigh, NC
At this point I wish Apple would buy Parallels or Fusion and just integrate it into macOS, or maybe even come up with there own. IMHO Fusion and Paralells are way over priced for what they are. macOS has all of the low level support for running VMs but just lacks a user facing interface. I know there are few open source projects out there like xhyve, maybe they can throw some money to that.

Ideally it would be something like WSL 2 in Windows, or maybe just something like libvirt and Virtual Machine Manager in Linux would be fine. Third parties could offer stuff like Kubernetes distros packaged on top of it for devs.
 

LumbermanSVO

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2007
1,234
622
Denton, TX
You make a good point about the cloud. However some of my corporate clients prohibit the use of any cloud-based solution, even for encrypted backups. They are concerned about cyber security in the cloud. True, many are not, but I think we need to dispel this myth that everything will end up cloud-based.

Also, there's still plenty of people who can't rely on the cloud for everything because they don't always have a solid internet connection. My entire industry(live entertainment) struggles with getting a good internet connection at shows. Because of that we lug around lots of gear just to avoid internet connectivity issues.
 

fokmik

Suspended
Oct 28, 2016
4,909
4,688
USA
If Microsoft will make Windows 10 arm to buy from October as rumours says...than there you go
 

jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,526
4,318
Well, with this pricing it is bye bye Parallels and VMWare here i come! I only use it occasionally so for me the new pricing is perfect. For my intel imac I can then run Windows the few times i need to without the recurring cost Parallels charge.

Same here, I will give iy a spin to see how it works and if it handles my light use needs I'll stick with free over $49/year. I suspect it will handle Office and PowerBI just fine; based on my past experience with VMware.

You will not be able to virtualize an Intel operating system on the Apple Silicon Macs– this is Intel only. There's extensive threads on it

Yup. The best hope is MS makes Windows/ARM a viable alternative to x64, and thus programs get poprted to WinARM to the point where there is no functional difference to the end user. For me, Office, including Visio and PowerBI would be enough to not need a separate winboxen.
 
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jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,526
4,318
Nice, look forward to seeing how it compared to the Tech Preview.

And people really need to learn the difference between virtualisation and emulation :cool:

The problem is while there are real technical differences, the end user doesn't care; all they want is theoir machine to run Windows outside of Bootcamp. That problem is not unique to computer technology, many occupations have terms that have very specific technical meanings whose distinction is lost on outsiders.
 

chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,546
7,070
As an example, does the "Fusion 12 Player" version support it ?
I am trying to read the differences in the fine print.
Fusion Player is the replacement for the non-pro version of Fusion and I'm sure it'll work fine with Linux guests.
 

Richy85

macrumors member
Jun 15, 2020
52
19
there is something that I do not understand. I already have a license for vmware fusion 11. If I want to go to version 12 I have to pay for the upgrade. But can I keep version 11 if I upgrade to BIG SUR? or won't it work?
 

chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,546
7,070
there is something that I do not understand. I already have a license for vmware fusion 11. If I want to go to version 12 I have to pay for the upgrade. But can I keep version 11 if I upgrade to BIG SUR? or won't it work?
Version 11 can't run in Big Sur because it depends on kernel extensions which no longer work.
 

Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,196
2,790
If Fusion were anywhere near as good as Parallels (primarily running Office apps in coherence mode). Parallels simply did much more with less assigned resources.

Fusion 12 Player, free for personal use.
For people like me still using parallels V10, moving to a free Fusion 12 will be very tempting.

I can't see what Parallels can do to remain competitive during the next 2/3 years being that they don't run a version for Windows or Linux (as far as I know) unlike VMWARE.
 

Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,196
2,790
There are lots of sarcastic and rude replies to this but I think the question is totally valid.

It is reasonable to expect VMWare and Parallels might release emulated versions of their software to allow Apple Silicon Macs to run x86 windows. I, for one, am hopefully they will so looking out for indications of this in announcements is totally legit.

If they don't, someone else will.
For people like me using Windows strictly to run a very old piece of software, we wouldn't care if it runs natively or in emulation.

If one wants to run anything else, they should buy a PC. They can cost as little as the price for a Parallels or VMWARE license.
 
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cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
At this point I wish Apple would buy Parallels or Fusion and just integrate it into macOS, or maybe even come up with there own. IMHO Fusion and Paralells are way over priced for what they are. macOS has all of the low level support for running VMs but just lacks a user facing interface. I know there are few open source projects out there like xhyve, maybe they can throw some money to that.

Ideally it would be something like WSL 2 in Windows, or maybe just something like libvirt and Virtual Machine Manager in Linux would be fine. Third parties could offer stuff like Kubernetes distros packaged on top of it for devs.
That would be a dead end, since none of that would work on apple silicon (unless you want to virtualize arm OS’s)
 

JosephAW

macrumors 603
May 14, 2012
6,016
7,993
Waiting for the former programmers of Connectix Virtual PC to startup again with an ARM version of Windows emulation.
 

darkslide29

macrumors 68000
Oct 5, 2011
1,861
886
San Francisco, California
I bootcamp to Windows 10 on my Mac Mini and use an eGPU to play games on Windows. I see this has eGPU support - is this something to consider using, or are there pros and cons to consider? Thanks.
 

Rigby

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2008
6,231
10,174
San Jose, CA
As an example, does the "Fusion 12 Player" version support it ?
I am trying to read the differences in the fine print.
Yes. "Player" is the new name for the previous standard (non-pro) Fusion. It is a full-featured desktop virtualization product, and of course it supports Linux VMs. The Pro version offers additional advanced features that primarily benefit developers, such as customizable virtual networks, being able to connect to vSphere and ESXi servers, and linked VM clones.

I am really happy to see that a Pro license now works for both Fusion Pro on Mac and Workstation Pro on Linux and Windows ...
 
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alex2792

macrumors 65816
Jun 13, 2009
1,126
2,973
Yes, but that doesn't preclude anyone from making, say, a Windows on ARM VM using Hypervisor.framework, then running x86-32 apps inside that.

Windows on ARM has **** performance when running x86 apps natively so you can imagine how slow it would be running in virtual machine. Additionally, ARM licenses are only sold directly to OEMs and (as far as I know) only work with Qualcomm CPUs.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,607
11,419
Waiting for the former programmers of Connectix Virtual PC to startup again with an ARM version of Windows emulation.

Probably hardly the same team any more, but much of the tech from Connectix Virtual PC ended up in Microsoft Hyper-V and some of their Azure stuff. So Microsoft does have the know-how both to virtualize, and to emulate (emulate x86 in PowerPC, anyway).

Windows on ARM has **** performance when running x86 apps natively so you can imagine how slow it would be running in virtual machine. Additionally, ARM licenses are only sold directly to OEMs and (as far as I know) only work with Qualcomm CPUs.

Welllllll.

For one, we don't really know what emulating x86 on Apple's ARM designs would be like. We do know that, as far as publicly available chips go, Apple is way ahead of Qualcomm.

As for licensing: sure. But if Corel (Parallels) or VMware were to ask Microsoft if they want to do a bundle where you buy VMware Fusion or whatever for $149 and it includes Windows 10 on ARM, I doubt they'd say no.

Lastly, my understanding is Windows on ARM is only supported on Qualcomm, but people have gotten it to work on Raspberry. When dual-booting, there are other concerns, such as getting it to boot from iBoot (ARM Macs are unlikely to have EFI, OpenFirmware, or similar), but for virtualization, that's not relevant.
 
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ph001bi

macrumors 6502a
May 26, 2015
594
1,337
London
If Microsoft will make Windows 10 arm to buy from October as rumours says...than there you go
You can extract an ISO from a W10onARM already. There is a tool currently used by those who want to run WoA on their Raspberry Pi. It works very well.
 

longofest

Editor emeritus
Jul 10, 2003
2,925
1,695
Falls Church, VA
When Apple goes to Apple Silicon, the best way to continue to use Windows will likely be to run it in the cloud and RDP to it rather than continuing to use virtualization apps.

Not a perfect solution, but its the likely one I think.
 
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chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,607
11,419
Din't MS buy Connectix? I ran it on an old Performa way back when.

Yes. Connectix Virtual PC became Microsoft Virtual PC on the Mac. On Windows, it briefly formed the basis of Windows XP Mode on Windows 7 (to run old apps; I kind of wish Apple had done something similar to run 32-bit apps on Catalina), and eventually evolved into Microsoft Hyper-V, which is their VMware ESX competitor.
 

TheDailyApple

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2019
660
2,898
I just bought 11.5 at the end of July. I wonder if I will quality for a free upgrade. Anyone else in the same boat?
Your license should be upgraded without any action on your part. If you bought the standard version, you will receive a commercial license for Fusion Player (since it's free for personal use); if you bought a pro license you will receive a new license key that will work with both Fusion Pro and Workstation Pro. (Since starting with 12 Fusion Pro license work with Workstation Pro for windows and linux.)

From VMware:
We’ve also made changes to our Technology Guarantee Program. Users who bought Fusion 11.5 or Fusion 11.5 Pro after June 15th 2020 (roughly when Big Sur was announced) will be automatically given new license keys for Fusion 12 Player or Fusion 12 Pro, respectively, in their MyVMware portal. Eligible users will be emailed once the automatic license upgrade happens to their account.

Because Fusion Player is now free for personal use, Fusion 11.5 customers entitled for an upgrade under the TGP will provided a Commercial Use license.
 
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techwhiz

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2010
1,297
1,804
Northern Ca.
At this point I wish Apple would buy Parallels or Fusion and just integrate it into macOS, or maybe even come up with there own. IMHO Fusion and Paralells are way over priced for what they are. macOS has all of the low level support for running VMs but just lacks a user facing interface. I know there are few open source projects out there like xhyve, maybe they can throw some money to that.

Ideally it would be something like WSL 2 in Windows, or maybe just something like libvirt and Virtual Machine Manager in Linux would be fine. Third parties could offer stuff like Kubernetes distros packaged on top of it for devs.

VMware is part of EMC, which is part of Dell.
Not for sell.
 
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