I too can confirm that my iBook with Radeon 9200 graphics works just fine with Debian.
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Void Linux for PowerPC
- Thread starter foxlet
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i think the guy's using yaboot. how do i do this on grub?
EDIT: tested it on a G5 with a radeon 9600 XT and i have the same issue
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i already described how https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...pc.2129245/page-4?post=28084711#post-28084711
After importing some patches from FF bugzilla, got much better/more correct rendering on big endian:
there are still some very minor cases of things looking somewhat wrong, but for most part, sites that used to look completely wrong render correctly now
packages not up in repo yet, probably during tomorrow... there are still some builds running etc.
there are still some very minor cases of things looking somewhat wrong, but for most part, sites that used to look completely wrong render correctly now
packages not up in repo yet, probably during tomorrow... there are still some builds running etc.
This is maybe 80% of what I want from linux on my PMG5. I didn't realize I was having endian issues, but that's down to not having used hardware where this could even come up.After importing some patches from FF bugzilla, got much better/more correct rendering on big endian:
there are still some very minor cases of things looking somewhat wrong, but for most part, sites that used to look completely wrong render correctly now
packages not up in repo yet, probably during tomorrow... there are still some builds running etc.
But I'm curious, what is the performance actually like? I know my dp 2ghz doesn't hold a candle to a quad, but the last time I tried it, it was just outright broken.
this is a dualcore, not a quad
it's kinda slow, but i guess usable... as in i could use it in a pinch, but much slower than my talos 2, of course
it's kinda slow, but i guess usable... as in i could use it in a pinch, but much slower than my talos 2, of course
Guess i shouldn't be surprised. Firefox has gotten fairly bloated, which is why those forks can be so useful. But my G5 is the best ppc hardware I have, and I definitely want to push it to its limits. Even if those limits are web browsing. I'm not expecting a miracle, I'm really more interested to see how it compares to Tenfourfox.
The UXP ports/forks (spiderweb/interweb) are much quicker and lighter and still sport a FF68 equivalent backend. I use them on my g4 mini and they clip along at a decent speed for most sites until you hit a script heavy page like google drive. Similar to arcticfox, but better web compliance. Currently only 32bit builds are available though (except arcticfox which does have a 64bit build available).
They do also run on void-ppc glibc 32bit for those interested that can't stand the slow WebKit based browsers.
Cheers
They do also run on void-ppc glibc 32bit for those interested that can't stand the slow WebKit based browsers.
Cheers
i remain doubtful that the UXP stuff is gonna be much faster if at all, considering they all lack a javascript JIT which is literally the main obstacle
i think @wicknix just has a different idea of performance (given what i'm generally used to)
pretty much anything that's not JS is gonna be reasonable in mainline FF (if anything i'd expect it to be faster than anything else), but JS is gonna bog it down
i think @wicknix just has a different idea of performance (given what i'm generally used to)
pretty much anything that's not JS is gonna be reasonable in mainline FF (if anything i'd expect it to be faster than anything else), but JS is gonna bog it down
Let's be real about this, if I was really looking for performance, I'd stick to my Core 2 and I series hardware. Or my android phone. I'm really not expecting miracles here, I just want more software to try. I like running new software on old hardware. I like the challenge of getting things to work.
So if that means adding noscript to ppc Firefox just to keep it working, that's what I'll do.
So if that means adding noscript to ppc Firefox just to keep it working, that's what I'll do.
@z970mp no, i share my own patches with upstreams (but in case of firefox i just took patches available in the bugtracker), distro downstreams can take them if they want, but i won't actively go out of my way to reach out to them, i have enough to do as it is
well, I do actively collaborate with the folks from Adélie Linux and FreeBSD, because we deal with the same projects and use the same communication channels, but I've never seen a Debian ports contributor around (except glaubitz occasionally appearing in random issue trackers)
well, I do actively collaborate with the folks from Adélie Linux and FreeBSD, because we deal with the same projects and use the same communication channels, but I've never seen a Debian ports contributor around (except glaubitz occasionally appearing in random issue trackers)
I'm under the impression that Debian Unstable for PPC is all but dead. Adrian doesn't even make any effort to create basic documentation on how to acquire functional install media. Yeah, the packages get built, and the repo's are up, but there are a host of problems that have been waiting to get fixed for a couple of years now, and I don't expect the situation to change, well, ever, to be frank. I'm not knocking your Linux wiki, or @wicknix Debian install media, mind you. They're definitely valuable resources. With that said, Void appears to be the only distro in existence that is properly maintained for these old machines, and is probably the best way forward. My 2 cents.
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There is also Adélie Linux, which has a big-endian ppc64 and ppc32 flavor, though they have smaller repositories and are purely musl libc focused. Void's primary ppc64 focus is actually little endian and modern hardware (POWER8 and newer; the big endian port also works on modern hardware, in addition to old hardware), these old macs are mostly a side effort and side effect (they *are* pretty much retrocomputing at this point, and I fully expect the community to pitch in with their own fixes and improvements if they want things to work *properly*, I test it on a few machines but I largely deal with POWER9 and similar), we also have bigger repositories and both glibc and musl support.
My main issue with Debian is that they're pretty much keeping up the same old port they've always had. That means, 30 years old inferior ABI on ppc64 (meanwhile, Void, Adélie, FreeBSD use the same modern ABI that was created for new little endian machines even on big endian flavors - which has faster library calls, no function descriptors, simpler to program for etc.), yaboot and its poorly hacked together suite of scripts that can't deal with removable media or modern SSDs (instead of just using GRUB), an assortment of problems across various software that nobody seems to care about, etc. - meanwhile we aim to have the same modern system available everywhere, without getting stuck.
My main issue with Debian is that they're pretty much keeping up the same old port they've always had. That means, 30 years old inferior ABI on ppc64 (meanwhile, Void, Adélie, FreeBSD use the same modern ABI that was created for new little endian machines even on big endian flavors - which has faster library calls, no function descriptors, simpler to program for etc.), yaboot and its poorly hacked together suite of scripts that can't deal with removable media or modern SSDs (instead of just using GRUB), an assortment of problems across various software that nobody seems to care about, etc. - meanwhile we aim to have the same modern system available everywhere, without getting stuck.
As a reference here is arcticfox browsing on a G4. The UXP ports are just a smidge slower. I get these are 15 year old machines, but I don't think browsing is slow at all for what they are.
Having finally gotten a chance to actually try the update out, I can definitely say it's really impressive. Sure, I'm just playing with it from a live disk here, and I realize updating and installing apps on disk isn't the greatest way to test things, but I have a feeling it won't perform that much better.After importing some patches from FF bugzilla, got much better/more correct rendering on big endian:
there are still some very minor cases of things looking somewhat wrong, but for most part, sites that used to look completely wrong render correctly now
packages not up in repo yet, probably during tomorrow... there are still some builds running etc.
I was able to sync, though a lot of the elements were color flipped, but I wasn't able to get into preferences, as that caused a whole system crash. But sites were working, and they were working perfectly, even if it was on the sluggish side at times, and if this can get more functional, it feels like the future for my aging DP G5.
any changes you do on live image are in RAM, and what's on the live images currently differs significantly from what's in the repos, so i'm surprised it worked at all
you're best off just installing the system, or waiting for next set of ISOs
you're best off just installing the system, or waiting for next set of ISOs
I certainly don't doubt that I'd get a better experience with a full install, I just wanted to see how much better it could be since the last time I tried it, and Firefox is definitely better, no doubt. I'm more than willing to believe that some of the crashes are kernel related, but the iso definitely came with a basically non-functional build of Firefox, so this is the sort of thing that makes it worth installing for me.
Besides, all I was risking was a ramdisk, if what I tried hadn't worked at all.
Besides, all I was risking was a ramdisk, if what I tried hadn't worked at all.
Meanwhile, upstream babl got a fix, which allows gegl and by extension GIMP to build and work on 32-bit ppc:
And I was right about the crashing. Firefox ESR does look better than regular Firefox, but scrolling through the really laggy preferences locked up the entire system, after the screen flashed black for a moment. This was all done on a properly installed system, and if it was just laggy, it wouldn't be so bad.
Meanwhile, upstream babl got a fix, which allows gegl and by extension GIMP to build and work on 32-bit ppc:
About 1 1/2 years ago, I was able to build babl and gegl on Debian Buster/sid PPC32, and got GIMP 2.10 RC1 (I think; I may have the version number wrong. The drive that my sid install was on went boom) to build and run with no issues. I had to download the then-current versions of babl and gegl, and hunt down all of the deps, but I got it to work. When I emailed Adrian about adding it to the sid repo, I got no answer whatsoever.