Volkswagen CEO: We're 'Not Afraid' of a Potential 'Apple Car'

[loby]

It’s important to note a lot of context regarding Tesla. Elon musk bought out patents for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in the 2000s and sat on them as it is cheaper to build a electric car. Musk also knew how to market his product well by making it a niche, “high end” vehicle with limited production in order to create waiting lists thus giving the appearance of high demand. It worked very well. While the vehicles are well designed and appealing they are far from eco-conscious.

The truth of the matter is hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the way forward if we want to stop pumping more carbon emissions into the atmosphere. In 2000s Ford and Toyota and Nissan and GM had hydrogen fuel cell vehicles on the road and numerous cities across the country. I lived in Los Angeles in the 2000s and drove a few friends’ hydrogen fuel cell cars. As hydrogen is obtained by running electric current through water in stations that use solar paneling in order to not tax power grids it is also much more energy efficient. Hydrogen is released and the chemical reaction with oxygen in the atmosphere through an aluminum membrane propels the vehicle. The only byproduct is water or water vapor. as they are not combustion engines they are much lighter in weight and allow for more safety and precautions. Tests have shown that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are much less combustible than traditional gasoline combustion engines.

in fact our military uses vehicles produced by GM in the Middle East such as Humvees. In the desert it allows for the collection of the water and water vapor inside the vehicle for passengers to drink. As a field agent for more than 10 years I have ridden inside such vehicles many times. If they were dangerous they would not be driving them through middle eastern territory.

I recall in the 2000s auto manufacturers pushed hard for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and pumped billions of dollars into movies and shows such as Iron Man and quantum of solace. If you watch those films you can see vehicles and advertisements in the background.

Elon musk approached many and claimed he would get hydrogen fuel cell vehicles on the road faster and bought many of the pattens out. Unfortunately his true intentions were to sell poorly built electric cars at a fraction of the cost with a higher price tag. Many who worked for him have spoken out about his practices and factories.

Electric cars do not benefit the The environment as many claim to believe. The amount of energy required to build the batteries and the fact they still need charging which only taxes power grids then the batteries cannot be recycled and are discarded produces a net gain over the years of use.

There’s a lot of information and if you’re interested I implore everyone to research hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and the history and the science. My uncle owns numerous dealerships in the tri-state area that my grandfather started and he used to sell teslas when they first launched but dealing with Musk and knowing how terribly built they are he cut ties. Eventually Elon musk had to build his own retail showrooms as dealerships begin cutting ties which is what led to their product deployment system.

hopefully more people will wake up and realize hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the true way forward and the electric car will combust again. Until then if your truly environmentally conscience drive less and walk or bike more. German auto manufacturers tried to use clean diesel which is more environmentally conscious but that’s a whole other story. I had an Audi RS5 in Berlin that ran on clean diesel and I got more miles to the tank. Audi and others used systems that helped regulate fuel consumption and pollution. Unfortunately there were some issues with early deployment that were eventually resolved however competitors and the oil and gas industry used misinformation against Volkswagen/Audi Porsche in order to undermine their efforts as the vehicles ran on less gasoline. Those same individuals were involved in killing the electric car in the 90s and years later many of those pattens they sat on were also acquired by Elon musk for a song.

in the end, every little bit counts and if electric vehicles help lessen carbon output until a better option comes along such as main stream production and use of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles then great, but Musk is not the environmentalist many praise him as being.

As for Apple, giving into the auto industry is going to take a lot more than producing an electric car with another auto manufacturer. This is not like the Apple Watch or electronics. Apple has to deal with production and a myriad of safety and compliance regulations in numerous nations as it varies greatly. That’s one major hurdle they will have to overcome and I cannot see partnering with an existing auto manufacturers resolving that.

Yet I am all for more trying to change a very important market. If Apple can do it I am behind them 100%.

Someone who knows something...are you sure you are on the right forum?..

 

[Alan Wynn]

Did the Apple Watch "take over"...please.

Yup, it has the largest market share of any smart watch and many others exited the market because of it.

However, to be more clear, they also have an even larger percentage of the market’s profit than they do of volume.

 

[George Dawes]

You mean like intel aren’t terrified of the M1 ?

😀.....

 

[-BigMac-]

is the same thing with the apple watch....you think Rolex, patek philippe , augmentin pique care about the apple watch success ? or you think they were afraid when the rumored about an apple watch started to appear?
No...and they still dont
So, its ok for competition point of view, nothing more, nothing less

Rolex, patek. They are not like VW at all, unless you are focusing purely on the Lamborghini division.

I bet some of the crappy watch brands took a hit when Apple Watch came to market..

Or do you think all watch owners wear rolex’s?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I lived in Los Angeles in the 2000s and drove a few friends’ hydrogen fuel cell cars. As hydrogen is obtained by running electric current through water in stations that use solar paneling in order to not tax power grids it is also much more energy efficient. Hydrogen is released and the chemical reaction with oxygen in the atmosphere through an aluminum membrane propels the vehicle. The only byproduct is water or water vapor. as they are not combustion engines they are much lighter in weight and allow for more safety and precautions. Tests have shown that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are much less combustible than traditional gasoline combustion engines.

My neighborhood is full of Toyota Mirais, Honda Clarity FCVs, and Hyundai Nexos. The Nexo was the first FCV with two model years in a row (meaning they released it and them updated it one year later). The new Mirai looks amazing. If they would just build a station in Barstow or Barker, there would be no where I regularly drive that I could not reach in an FCV with a 5 min refuel on the route if needed.

The work in FCVs for long haul trucking may very well make FCV cars viable. One needs many fewer stations to cover the whole country than one needs for fast chargers. Let Honda release its Home Hydrogen Station connected to solar and the process is even nicer.

 

[loby]

Yup, it has the largest market share of any smart watch and many others exited the market because of it.

However, to be more clear, they also have an even larger percentage of the market’s profit than they do of volume.

Not talking about "smart watches" I am talking overall watch industry. You are probably correct for "smart watches" which is not the largest segment of the watch industry. I do not think mass watch companies went out of business like Palm, Motorola, Nioka and even Microsoft (in the phone market) because apple made a watch. The apple watch is not a "must have" like iPhone became. Palm is another story and they just messed up on lack of development (quickly) and marketing.

When the Apple Watch came out people said the same thing that it would "take over" the watch industry...not. Maybe for their nitch market "self driving car or techno car", but not take over the auto industry.

If apple comes out with a car it will just be another option among many. I am not saying that they would or would not dominate in the category of "self driving" or "techno car". That is something different, but to believe that apple will come with the "this is it..finally" with a car...that remains to be seen or dreamed off if ever comes to being.

 

[gene731]

The Macrumors list of companies that are over

Volkswagen
Netflix
Spotify
Epic Games
Facebook
Google
The entire watch industry
Intel

Have i missed anyone..?

Sure. You missed Nokia. You missed BlackBerry.

 

[Dkka1]

Yup you keep saying that.

Actually, Apple surpassed Spotify in paid customers in the U.S. in 2019 and has remained ahead. Given their iPhone market share is much lower in the rest of the world, I would be surprised for them to dominate there. As for Netflix, you are correct, Apple in the first year after launch during a global pandemic, has been unable to displace Netflix. Clearly doomed.

Glad you put that on the record. I guess in a few years we can evaluate your statement.

Apple is never “doomed” because they have tons of cash and a huge and loyal user base.

However, Apple, with all that cash, isn’t able to take on outsider-startup Spotify at something so apple-core-business as music. Even by pre installing their Music app, even by charging a fee for every Spotify subscription, even by forcing Siri and Apple Watch to use Music, even with those hundreds of billions, they can’t create a service any better or more popular than tiny, tiny and powerless Spotify in Sweden. Hard facts.

Now you tell me they’re going to create an automobile which will take down juggernaut VW/Porsche/Audi “because Nokia”. We’ll see which statement ages better. I would say there is a better chance Huawei or Xiaomi take down Apple over the next 20 years than neither of them take down VWAG.

 

[loby]

Actually, it is quite a bit different, but not with your definitions as loose as they are, not really worth arguing over.

Actually, much of the manufacturing technology for the iPhone is designed by Apple and the equipment is owned by Apple and housed at the facilities of their contract manufacturers. Again, however, with such broad comparisons, they meaningless.

I will ask you the same question I asked the other poster: Do you think that Apple is capable of designing and arranging for the manufacture of a car or not within the next 8 years? If you accept that they can do it, then it is irrelevant which is more complex, and if you claim that they cannot, then we will know whether you were right when we never see one.

The rest of this discussion is just arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

A car is different than making "innovation my **..." changes like when the Mac Pro 2013 came out.

Apple: "We designed ourselves into a thermo nightmare.." (summary) - why the trash can was a mess (though I still like it). And this was their market...

Messing up on a design of a Mac Pro and just ignoring it like they did for years with the Mac Pro is one thing, but a car...the Car industry is not concerned...or even worried.

Apple may just bring to an already over developed industry a fresh thought on the car..."Thinking different" about a car, not "take over".

 

[koruki]

I have access to the full interview. Here are the important parts - translated by the amazing, Germany-based AI service Deepl https://www.deepl.com/translator

---

Are you still a fan of Tesla pioneer Elon Musk?

He changed the industry with Tesla. Tesla is now our main competitor in the electric world. I think it's good that Tesla is coming to Germany. Competition is good for us, and we are embracing it with our Trinity project in Wolfsburg. The conversion at our corporate headquarters will revolutionize the location. Competition is an advantage of location, as a look at southern Germany shows: Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler are all located within a few hundred kilometers of each other, and they chase the best people away from each other, driving each other to peak performance. Something like this could happen in the north between Tesla in Brandenburg and VW in Wolfsburg.

IG Metall boss Jörg Hofmann can no longer hear the praise for Tesla: They should first adhere to German labor law and collectively agreed wages. Do you envy Elon Musk for not having to take a works council into account?

If you start with a blank sheet of paper, you always have an advantage. However, I firmly expect that IG Metall, with its powerful position in Germany, will ensure that Tesla also has to ensure fair working conditions and that we get equal opportunities with Tesla.

Apple is even more powerful than Tesla: Will the iPhone manufacturer soon be your toughest competitor?

To be honest, I expected Apple to get into the car business sooner. It's a very logical step, because Apple has the expertise for the new automotive world: batteries, software and design - Apple has all that, plus practically endless financial resources. Nevertheless, we're not afraid: the automotive industry is not a typical tech sector, it can't be taken over in a sweep. Apple will not succeed overnight.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Apple has one problem a lot of big companies have, a board to please. VW has the same problem, shifting markets takes a huge risk, Steve might have been able to pull crazy moves but I don't know if Tim or the boards faith in Tim stretches that far. Competition is healthy but there isn't alot of crazy CEO's around like Musk. Yes, love him or hate him he will bet the bank on his ideas.

 

[Dark_Omen]

WV doesn't offer a single attractive vehicle on the market. All of their cars are extremely ugly.

They don't offer muscle cars, muscle SUV's, or anything like Mercedes does that's got smart features or cool looking ambient lighting in the cabin. I forget VW even exists most of the time and I'm a car enthusiast.

 

[Dkka1]

WV doesn't offer a single attractive vehicle on the market. All of their cars are extremely ugly.

They don't offer muscle cars, muscle SUV's, or anything like Mercedes does that's got smart features or cool looking ambient lighting in the cabin. I forget VW even exists most of the time and I'm a car enthusiast.

So a car enthusiast but I guess you didn’t know that Bugatti, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Audi are VW, eh?

 

[Dark_Omen]

So a car enthusiast but I guess you didn’t know that Bugatti, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Audi are VW, eh?

WV is one brand owned by Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft. The WV branch of Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft sucks.

 

[Digital Dude]

How will Apple Cars be. serviced at Apple Stores?

Well, they're going to have to get clever because 'CarCare' has already been taken.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Not talking about "smart watches" I am talking overall watch industry.

Apple outsold the entire Swiss Watch industry last year (not just the high end). I cannot find it, but I am pretty sure I saw an article on Hodinkee that said they took a disproportionate profit share as well.

You are probably correct for "smart watches" which is not the largest segment of the watch industry. I do not think mass watch companies went out of business like Palm, Motorola, Nioka and even Microsoft (in the phone market) because apple made a watch.

Read this article about Fossil and get back to me in a few years. May not be as fast, but smart watches are likely to kill most everything below the high end.

The apple watch is not a "must have" like iPhone became. Palm is another story and they just messed up on lack of development (quickly) and marketing.

Right now it is still an adjunct product. As it becomes more and more standalone, it will hurt the rest of the watch industry more and more.

When the Apple Watch came out people said the same thing that it would "take over" the watch industry...not.

Again, I guess it depends on what you consider taking over the industry. Benjamin Clymer, one of the most well know people in the industry seems to disagree with you, but we will just have to wait and see.

Maybe for their nitch market "self driving car or techno car", but not take over the auto industry.

Again, it depends on what you mean by “take over”. In some markets (like tablets and smart watches) they have the largest market share. In others like the iPhone they have all the profit. In the PC market, they just have a profit share that is much larger than their market share.

If apple comes out with a car it will just be another option among many. I am not saying that they would or would not dominate in the category of "self driving" or "techno car". That is something different, but to believe that apple will come with the "this is it..finally" with a car...that remains to be seen or dreamed off if ever comes to being.

I have no idea if they will release a car. I have no idea if they will be successful if they do. I only know that their most likely goals if they do are to have a profit share that is disproportionate with their market share, to have it be large enough to have a meaningful impact on their revenue and to improve the stickiness of their ecosystem as a whole.

None of those things require them to put any existing car company out of business.

 

[-BigMac-]

WV doesn't offer a single attractive vehicle on the market. All of their cars are extremely ugly.

They don't offer muscle cars, muscle SUV's, or anything like Mercedes does that's got smart features or cool looking ambient lighting in the cabin. I forget VW even exists most of the time and I'm a car enthusiast.

HAHAHA "a car enthusiast" who forgets VW exists.

VW owns the following: Bentley, Audi, Bugatti, Porsche and Lamborghini. To name a few..

Those are literally world-leading in terms of technological and mechanical prowess.

 

[Alan Wynn]

A car is different than making "innovation my **..." changes like when the Mac Pro 2013 came out.

Yup, Apple makes mistakes. Lots of them. Are we going to compare that to some of the mistakes that VW has made?

Messing up on a design of a Mac Pro and just ignoring it like they did for years with the Mac Pro is one thing, but a car...the Car industry is not concerned...or even worried.

Right, VW is still paying for their TDI fraud. None of this matters. Again, are you arguing that Apple cannot design and arrange for the manufacture of a car? Are you arguing that if they do release a car it will fail? Are you arguing that if they release a car and it is successful, it will have no impact on the industry?

If not, what does the Mac Pro or any of Apple‘s other failures (or for that matter any of its successes), have to do with their entry in to this market?

Apple may just bring to an already over developed industry a fresh thought on the car..."Thinking different" about a car, not "take over".

Get back to me when you have defined what you mean by “take over”.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Well, they're going to have to get clever because 'CarCare' has already been taken.

They have AppleCare, and AppleCare+. They do not use WatchCare or PhoneCare, so I am pretty sure they are ok.

 

[yurc]

Depending what kind of vehicle which Apple to make, that's company which should worryingly anticipates.
Is Apple targeting super car? Luxury Sedan? SUV?

Some automotive makers do everything from small sedan to 18-wheeler, depending which segment Apple targeting for, that's threat they should take precautions, but other segment above should be fine, they have their own market.

At least Apple won't start as Hammer or Jeep first, anyone want to bang shiny pristine Apple Car into rock garden and pile of mud

 

[ipponrg]

Not sure why Tesla is your proof. They have barely made any money, and even with their sky high valuation, do not have anywhere near the same amount of cash on hand as Apple does.

Because Apple even with all their cash in hand is doing abysmal in comparison to the rest of streaming. This is why the cash reason is just strawman.

Yet Apple has never been about volume. They just want almost all the profit in a market, while selling enough units to have a healthy ecosystem

Apple dances a thin line around volume and profit. If Apple was to only focus on your rhetoric, then they wouldn’t be where they are today.

AppleCare provides onsite service for the MacPro everywhere in the U.S. and I guarantee they do that despite it being a low volume product. If Apple sold only one car a year but took all the industry’s profit, I am pretty sure they would be fine with that.

I think this proves you and I don’t live in the same world. Earth to Alan Wynn, why compare on-site computer repair with on-site car service repair? Are they going to roll in a mobile race truck to fix your car?

Apple outsold the entire Swiss Watch industry last year (not just the high end). I cannot find it, but I am pretty sure I saw an article on Hodinkee that said they took a disproportionate profit share as well.

Hodinkee, ABTW, etc run these articles for traffic. Truth be told, the 500$ segment is in trouble because that is the gateway to higher end watches. However, the higher end for existing interested parties will not change much. Rolex, whether due to artificial limits or some other reason, keeps increasing in price.

 

[tridley68]

I welcome this over Kia

 

[Alan Wynn]

Apple is never “doomed” because they have tons of cash and a huge and loyal user base.

However, Apple, with all that cash, isn’t able to take on outsider-startup Spotify at something so apple-core-business as music. Even by pre installing their Music app, even by charging a fee for every Spotify subscription, even by forcing Siri and Apple Watch to use Music, even with those hundreds of billions, they can’t create a service any better or more popular than tiny, tiny and powerless Spotify in Sweden. Hard facts.

Apple Music was released about 10 years after Spotify. In the US, they have surpassed Spotify in paying customers. I am not sure what you mean that they are not able to “them them on”. They do not “take a fee for every Spotify subscription”, only take a fee from people who Spotify chooses to allow to subscribe via the platform. It was Spotify’s choice to not release an Apple Watch app (pandora had one well before Spotify did).

In the rest of the world, Apple’s iOS market share is pretty small, so I would expect them to take quite some time to overcome an incumbent with a 10 year lead.

Now you tell me they’re going to create an automobile which will take down juggernaut VW/Porsche/Audi “because Nokia”. We’ll see which statement ages better. I would say there is a better chance Huawei or Xiaomi take down Apple over the next 20 years than neither of them take down VWAG.

Please find any post of mine where I made that claim. Just one. Any post where I even came close to making that claim.

What I have said repeatedly is that Apple may or may not decide to make a car and if they do it may or may not be successful. I also said that they are more than capable to design and arrange for the manufacture of a car (whether they decide to do it or not), and that if they do it and it is successful, the measure of success will not be the volume of cars shipped, but the profit share they take.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Indeed. The VW Group also owns Lamborghini, Bugatti and Bentley, as well as "cheaper" brands like Skoda and SEAT.

To complicate the story further, the majority voting group for VW is Porsche SE (which is controlled by the Porsche and Piech families).

Anyhow, VW knows how to build cars and has a boatload of technology at its disposition. The VW brand is fairly high-end in Europe, the next up would be Audi.

My recollection is that the main platform is shared (MEB) and the larger Porsche/Audi will use an evolution platform, PPE - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform

And the Apple car is reportedly going to be built by Kia. 😂 Oh wait... I guess the rumor has changed. Who builds this? Foxconn?

 

[KPOM]

Fairly sure Blackberry said something similar about Apple smartphones...

Palm.

 

[StoneJack]

How will Apple Cars be. serviced at Apple Stores?

Probably. And I am saying it seriously, at least for USA thats very good possibility