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Volkswagen CEO: We're 'Not Afraid' of a Potential 'Apple Car'

Alan Wynn said:
Actually, it is quite a bit different, but not with your definitions as loose as they are, not really worth arguing over.

Actually, much of the manufacturing technology for the iPhone is designed by Apple and the equipment is owned by Apple and housed at the facilities of their contract manufacturers. Again, however, with such broad comparisons, they meaningless.

I will ask you the same question I asked the other poster: Do you think that Apple is capable of designing and arranging for the manufacture of a car or not within the next 8 years? If you accept that they can do it, then it is irrelevant which is more complex, and if you claim that they cannot, then we will know whether you were right when we never see one.

The rest of this discussion is just arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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If they are meaningless, why are you arguing against my point, yet confirming in the same post that Apple uses contract manufacturing? Customers owning the equipment manufacturers use to build their products is not unique to the Foxconn / Apple relationship. It is a neat CapEX trick that Apple learned from other companies who use hybrid outsourcing, yet does it quite well as a rule. It gives them more control of the process, but isn't the same as them making it themselves as you seem to be implying.

Regarding your question to me, it is totally irrelevant. I wasn't commenting about Apple's ability (or not) to make a car, nor was that ever my point in responding to your posts. You need to stop moving the goal posts and this isn't the first time you have done that. In another side conversation, you brought up the Apple Watch when the topic I was responding to was regarding differences of complexity in building a car versus a mobile phone.

To bring together both issues and posts of yours I commented on, Cars are very complex, if they weren't, Apple would be in the market already, there are many moving parts both literally and figuratively to bring something to market. If there wasn't Tesla wouldn't have so many recalls or poor customer satisfaction with regards to component failures up to this day. There would also be FAR more electric cars available as (like the SUV Boom) Manufacturers could charge a premium on the overall hype and popularity of such products that are less complex to build than an ICE powered car.

That said, in response to your question (that was never part of our previous conversation) I have faith that Apple can overcome these issues and build a proper automobile but It will take time. This isn't a modern replacement for an antiquated feature phone, this is a technological advancement in Transportation with many, many complex technical and legal obsticals attached.
 
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TheOldChevy said:
Nokia could have survived going the Android way, but they selected the wrong partner.

BTW the Nokia phone with Microsoft Mobile were very good, fast and easy to use. But Microsoft messed it completely when they restructured.
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Im not so sure. Samsung seems to be the only company other than Apple making any money in the handset industry. And I wonder how well they would do without also having Apple as a customer for many of their parts.
Android is awesome, but it is now just a loss leader commodity for Google with razor thin margins for handset makers. I doubt any handset company will ever make any real money on Android other than a Chinese company perhaps.
 
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If Apple car comes in at a premium/ ultra premium price point it’s gonna face growth limits. Tesla would be their arch rival and Musk is a serious match for Cook. I think Apple should stick with phones & computers before they spread too thin like Scully did. I wonder if they are getting insecure about sustaining their computer businesses? Tim is a world class bean counter ie. industrial engineer and has managed well what Steve started (thanks to China) but nothing has matched iPhone or iPad... just years & years of tweaking the same idea. Who knows? It’s all speculation.
 
Alan Wynn said:
Yup, Apple makes mistakes. Lots of them. Are we going to compare that to some of the mistakes that VW has made?

Right, VW is still paying for their TDI fraud. None of this matters. Again, are you arguing that Apple cannot design and arrange for the manufacture of a car? Are you arguing that if they do release a car it will fail? Are you arguing that if they release a car and it is successful, it will have no impact on the industry?

If not, what does the Mac Pro or any of Apple‘s other failures (or for that matter any of its successes), have to do with their entry in to this market?

Get back to me when you have defined what you mean by “take over”.
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"Take Over". means revolutionary that will cause the industry competitors to go out of business.

Apple's overall philosophy about their products would have to change if they enter the market. They cannot change the market to their way of doing things as they usually try to do. This market they will have to change their ways or "think different" about themselves and how they do business.

If something does not work, malfunctions and/or has a defect in the current "Apple way" of doing things, that thinking will not work with cars. It will not just be "Yes, Apple makes a mistake", this is about lives. They have to "rethink" their way of doing business if they get into the car industry unless they get an auto company to partner with them and Apple just be the designer of the look and concepts, which from rumors has been difficult and their is probably good reasons why auto companies are passing. Not because they are "scared" of Apple, but the liability of what they are presenting is probably not in their interest or too risky to partner with. So Apple will "just does it themselves.." Humm...that will be interesting to watch and see what happens.

If something does not work, they cannot keep silent or just go into denial mode like Apple's proven pattern currently is.

Or try to cover up or fix before a law suit. They cannot silently just redesign a faulty keyboard or lower a battery replacement cost for one year to make people forget. This is a world now of lawsuits if someone sneezes etc. and if someone spills their coffee on their laps while Siri says something wrong etc. as they are trying to go to Starbucks. They will have to pay lawyers to live and sleep in the courts, let alone if their car malfunctions and kills someone(s). They can't just put a product out and have beta testers as the buyers of their product try out their product to see if it works.

Ideas and designing cool technology is one thing, but the business behind the car industry, including all of the headaches, safety regulations, assurances to cover themselves, and many many other things is more than just coming up with a "cool or hip" looking car. Apple will have to morph into something they are not currently to be successful. Is it that much worth doing just to have a cool apple car go along with my hip Apple Watch so I look cool to my peers? Maybe not for the stockholders, we will see.

Apple makes mistakes...but in this field...a mistake could take them out of business. It does not matter how much money they have. One "mistake" could cost them everything in this game. Yes they can learn, but is it worth their efforts? A flying car might be worth the effort instead, but just a car that drives itself instead of taking a taxi is not worth all of the headaches and risks just to put a Apple logo on a car while I wear my cool A.I. apple sunglasses in it.

I am not saying that Apple "shouldn't" try or design or even come up with ideas about a future car or anything or even hinder not trying. I am saying the car industry is not concerned. They might (like apple does) just watch what Apple tries to do and then do something better.
 
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He'll join the long line of CEOs making statements about the competition that is gonna sound awful in retrospect. That would be Steve Balmer's comments on the iPhone (it's a terrible business computer because it doesn't have a keyboard), or how Blockbuster turned down the offer to buy Netflix for 50 million).... and how the Watch industry scoffed at the sight of the Apple Watch, saying that they were not competition.

I'm sure he's not afraid of the Apple Car, ... and that makes sense, because in a decade he will be driving in one.
 
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No doubt EV's have a great future in the developed world. The other 85% of the world will continue to rely on combustion engines for decades to come, as they lack money and infrastructure to operate EV's. Apple is addressing an absolute niche within a niche ... we're not talking about a 100$ phone here ... so yeah, VW's Diess should not be concerned. The valuation of the Tesla's and alike is based on a speculative bubble.
 
I say the more competition the better. I think other companies/manufactures are intimidated by Apple, because of their popular of their branding, overall empowerment and there capability taking a piece of the EV world. It’s obvious we’re in the very early stages of where and how this will all play out, but 10 years from now, it’s not going to be just about ‘one or two’ major companies, every manufacturer will be on board, and Apple is just now assembling the necessary moves to make it happen.
 
DelayedGratificationGene said:
I want my CEO to be very afraid at all times of all competition. I want him/her head on a swivel stick looking around at the competition....a CEO that is not afraid won’t be CEO for long....
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Yeah, but the key difference is to not show that fear to the public. Have you ever seen Tim Cook say he’s afraid of the competition?
 
edvj said:
The company named Nokia is doing quite well..
In 2018,Nokia employed approximately 103,000 people across over 100 countries, did business in more than 130 countries, and reported annual revenues of around €23 billion
en.wikipedia.org

Nokia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Yup, just not in mobile phones, from having been the largest manufacturer in the space. :)
 
UrbanJoe1 said:
If Apple car comes in at a premium/ ultra premium price point it’s gonna face growth limits. Tesla would be their arch rival and Musk is a serious match for Cook. I think Apple should stick with phones & computers before they spread too thin like Scully did. I wonder if they are getting insecure about sustaining their computer businesses? Tim is a world class bean counter ie. industrial engineer and has managed well what Steve started (thanks to China) but nothing has matched iPhone or iPad... just years & years of tweaking the same idea. Who knows? It’s all speculation.
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In less than 5 years cars will be nothing but small computers in big packages. The EV drivetrain is not like a Petrol, there's not really much "specialisation" in it, there's no turbo modes or special features you add to make it louder or really go faster. It's really just a battery and some simple motors.

Tesla's advantage is shrinking year over year because the drive train is not really complex and good batteries are available from 3rd parties to any manufacturer. (except maybe autonomous driving, but if you really follow that space it's decades away to finish the last 10% that is near impossible for computers to do)

Apple has an opportunity to drastically rethink what a car is, how we use and interact them because of the electrification of the field. Their own silicon also provides an inherit market advantage as computers become more and more integral to cars.
 
I think Apple will do well in the car industry but I can see where this guy is coming from. He’s head of one of the biggest and most popular car manufacturers in the world. His company isn’t really at risk even if Apple does come in swinging. His cars come at all sorts of price ranges which Apple won’t really be able to compete with straight away.

Let’s be honest Apple Car isn’t gonna be cheap so they ain’t gonna dominate the market immediately. You want a Tesla you’re paying £40,000-60,000. Apple is likely gonna be more expensive than Tesla. £15-20k is a price range that Volkswagen is extremely competitive at. It’s gonna take both Tesla + Apple a while to target that price range.

Look at the iPhone…the first lower priced/budget one was the 5C in 2013 about 6 years after the first iPhone. It’ll take years for Apple to start selling cheaper models.

I’m certainly not writing Apple off. They have an extremely good chance to take on and succeed in the car industry. In 10 years Apple could have transformed the car industry like it did the phone industry. even if they do that then today’s manufacturers still don’t really need to worry. Yeah the market will change but they if they play their cards right they will be fine. Some might disappear but some will also succeed.
 
CEO Herbert Diess was asked a question and answered it as best anyone probably could. The question can’t really be answered due to details still not available on who Apple will partner with or their focus.

It’s like that Ragnarok meme where Thor says, yeah, I know I can’t beat you, but he can.

The rumors are multiple partnerships that include Hyundai, Nissan, even Toyota for gods sake. So, depending on what Apple’s goals are (consumer vehicles, public transportation, something in between?), no one should particularly be afraid until then.
 
Why WOULD Volkswagen be afraid of a product that doesn't exist? I could understand if Apple had some working concept vehicle, but apparently, Apple has absolutely nothing worth fearing. Putting wheels on a Mac Pro doesn't make Apple into an automaker.

Tesla owns the EV market and likely will for many years to come. The sad fact is Wall Street is basically saying Apple should be more like Tesla instead of the reverse. Tesla has completely stolen investor's mind-share from Apple. I'm a long-term Apple shareholder and it's quite disappointing to hear pundits saying how Apple should follow Tesla each time Tesla does something new. It's amusing to hear because Tesla's revenue and profits for the last quarter was only about one-tenth of Apple's revenue and profits if that much. However, it's Tesla that has a P/E of 1300 and some people say Tesla is undervalued. Seems crazy.
 
do you guys expect the CEO will say. "We are afraid in Apple, and we are doom!?"
 
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