Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread

[mcarling]

It's looking like the rMBP line will get a very minor refresh in summer 2014, comparable to the minor refresh of February 2013. We might have to wait until 2015 for Broadwell MBPs. The only dramatic new MacBook I expect for the 2014 holiday shopping season is the rMBA.

Any thoughts on 32 GB RAM?

The only chance for a 32GB Haswell MBP would be if Apple introduce a 17 rMBP. With Broadwell, there is a slim chance of a 32GB 15" rMBP. After Broadwell, the chances get better.

 

[Vanilla35]

It's looking like the rMBP line will get a very minor refresh in summer 2014, comparable to the minor refresh of February 2013. We might have to wait until 2015 for Broadwell MBPs. The only dramatic new MacBook I expect for the 2014 holiday shopping season is the rMBA.

Where do you assume that information from? I haven't looked at Haswell processor refresh schedules though, so that may be where you're getting it?

 

[arzbhatia]

Hmmm.. Should I get the rMBP 15" Retina (16gb, 512gb, GT 750) or should I wait for the refreshed line?

 

[yangchewren]

AT's summary of what they know of Nvidia's 800m line and some estimates:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7834/nvidia-geforce-800m-lineup-battery-boost

Looking at this, a GTX 850M would be pretty rewarding for users after the next big update. That's if...

 

[Vanilla35]

AT's summary of what they know of Nvidia's 800m line and some estimates:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7834/nvidia-geforce-800m-lineup-battery-boost

Looking at this, a GTX 850M would be pretty rewarding for users after the next big update. That's if...

Yeah the 850M is gonna be 60% faster than the 750M. Specs are leaked all over the place at this point. I'm just waiting on the benchmarks, should only be another day or two.

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Hmmm.. Should I get the rMBP 15" Retina (16gb, 512gb, GT 750) or should I wait for the refreshed line?

Do what you want. You might be waiting until February (keep in mind last month was February) for the next refresh.

 

[mcarling]

Where do you assume that information from? I haven't looked at Haswell processor refresh schedules though, so that may be where you're getting it?

Yes, exactly. I've been looking at the ongoing release of new Haswell parts, information about Broadwell, and what I know from working at Intel writing circuit simulation software for the CPU designers.

 

[Vanilla35]

Yes, exactly. I've been looking at the ongoing release of new Haswell parts, information about Broadwell, and what I know from working at Intel writing circuit simulation software for the CPU designers.

Got it, I appreciate the response. That's lame, I was hoping to get myself a graduation present by fall at the latest

 

[mcarling]

Got it, I appreciate the response.

You're welcome.

That's lame, I was hoping to get myself a graduation present by fall at the latest

So, if you don't want a Retina MBA, get a Haswell rMBP!

 

[Vanilla35]

You're welcome.


So, if you don't want a Retina MBA, get a Haswell rMBP!

Never . I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for settling with the 750M now when I could just wait for the next iteration's 850M-860M; since that's the thing I care most about. I wouldn't buy till mid summer anyway, and by then the hype train will start picking up, so I'll just ride it out

P.S. For me the 765M is around the perfect power that I'd want in my laptop, so with the 850M I would be perfectly happy (performs slightly better than the 765M), and with the 860M (performs much better than the 765M) absolutely joyous

P.P.S. I just realized that the difference in power behind the 850M and 860M is too great for them to consider putting in the 860M. Even though it's feasible regarding the relatively low TDP. The 860M is a staple for great performance this generation, and that's not usually what apple goes for (regarding persona) for their laptops. The 850M is the scaled down version of the 860M and still has good performance, so that matches up with Apple's tendencies much more nicely. That's what they'll choose

.

 

[PDFierro]

Woah, I haven't been on here in forever. Awesome to see the same people chatting in this thread.

So what's the latest? I thought I read that Intel isn't releasing Broadwell until Q1 2015. I'm happily enjoying my Haswell rMBP anyway.

 

[Xeos]

MacBook Pros keep 83-86% of their value after one year, this makes an annual upgrade schedule pretty affordable. Just buy a rMBP and factor in the cost of selling + buying a new one once a year.

I have a late 2013 15" rMBP (top spec). that i'll easily sell for $2200-$2300, making the upgrade to the next one only around $300-$400. Worth it, especially if the new one has double the graphics capability and increased battery life.

 

[Vanilla35]

Woah, I haven't been on here in forever. Awesome to see the same people chatting in this thread.

So what's the latest? I thought I read that Intel isn't releasing Broadwell until Q1 2015. I'm happily enjoying my Haswell rMBP anyway.

Actually mcarling's first post on this page is the latest. Since not too much has been going on regarding leaks on Broadwell, myself and a few others have been trying to stir up conversation about Maxwell.

A ton of leaks have already come out regarding the 850M and 860M. They're both going to be immensely higher performance than the current 750M. Also because Maxwell is so much more efficient than Keplar, the 860M becomes viable (possibly) for the 15" rMBP due to it's low TDP. That doesn't mean it's giong to be put in there though, and my guess is apple will put in the 850M which will be cooler, and lower TDP than the current 750M, while also being 60% faster. So that's a solid choice that I think they'll make.

Nothing else really going on in discussion about the rMBP. I'm guessing we'll have to wait till summer for more people to come aboard waiting for the (I'll start throwing in all the hype features that we have a chance at getting -- now ) 15" IGZO 4k display, with 32GB ram, Nvidia 860M discrete graphics, and 10 hour battery life Retina Macbook Pro.

It's good to see the crew too though, always a pleasure. I'll be on here probably pretty often (not gonna lie to myself) and I wanna say I'll always check at least once every couple weeks even when my life gets really busy.

 

[Baadshah]

it would be awessome to get a 4K display, but i dont think its realistik on a 15 inch, i would love to see a 3200x1800 display rather den 2800x1800, retina is no longer leader in display.

 

[cool11]

As of now, I too am waiting for the March '14 MacBook Pro too!

Just picked up a new MBP Retina 15 2.7, 16GB, 512GB SSD etc and I'll run that for the next 6 months and then hand it down to my business partner and buy myself the version after this years next release.

This post was in August 2013, now it is March 2014, and not only there is not such a mbp yet, but additionally I can't see anything in the horizon!

 

[Vanilla35]

it would be awessome to get a 4K display, but i dont think its realistik on a 15 inch, i would love to see a 3200x1800 display rather den 2800x1800, retina is no longer leader in display.

I doubt they're going to be upgrading for a while. They just upped their screen in 2012. How long did it take them to go from 1600x900 to the current display?

The cool thing about Apple is they leapfrog the competition when they make their next move. The sucky thing about Apple is once they do that, they don't change their products for several years.

This post was in August 2013, now it is March 2014, and not only there is not such a mbp yet, but additionally I can't see anything in the horizon!

I don't know if it's just me, but I can't comprehend the point that this comment is trying to convey.

 

[mcarling]

Never . I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for settling with the 750M now when I could just wait for the next iteration's 850M-860M; since that's the thing I care most about. I wouldn't buy till mid summer anyway, and by then the hype train will start picking up, so I'll just ride it out

P.S. For me the 765M is around the perfect power that I'd want in my laptop, so with the 850M I would be perfectly happy (performs slightly better than the 765M), and with the 860M (performs much better than the 765M) absolutely joyous

P.P.S. I just realized that the difference in power behind the 850M and 860M is too great for them to consider putting in the 860M. Even though it's feasible regarding the relatively low TDP. The 860M is a staple for great performance this generation, and that's not usually what apple goes for (regarding persona) for their laptops. The 850M is the scaled down version of the 860M and still has good performance, so that matches up with Apple's tendencies much more nicely. That's what they'll choose

If the only feature you care about is discrete graphics, then I recommend you buy the Haswell 15" rMBP because I suspect it will be the last Apple laptop to ever include a discrete GPU.

 

[Vanilla35]

If the only feature you care about is discrete graphics, then I recommend you buy the Haswell 15" rMBP because I suspect it will be the last Apple laptop to ever include a discrete GPU.

I'm definitely not making that move with the chance that an 850M could be put in this years 15". If it turns out to be true though, then I'll take the discount on last years

 

[mcarling]

I'm definitely not making that move with the chance that an 850M could be put in this years 15".

You mean in a minor refresh of the Haswell rMBP? I would be quite surprised if Apple would change the GPU this year. If it's pin compatible, then there would be a slight chance. If it's not pin compatible, then it would be nearer to no chance. I cannot imagine any reason why Apple would want to change the motherboard for a minor Haswell refresh -- unless they discover a way to reduce manufacturing costs, improve airflow, or something like that.

If it turns out to be true though, then I'll take the discount on last years

I give it about a 30% chance that the 15" Broadwell rMBP will be available with a discrete GPU. In the seemingly unlikely event that Apple might offer a 17" Broadwell rMBP, then I give it an 80% chance that the 17" model would include a discrete GPU.

 

[Vanilla35]

You mean in a minor refresh of the Haswell rMBP? I would be quite surprised if Apple would change the GPU this year. If it's pin compatible, then there would be a slight chance. If it's not pin compatible, then it would be nearer to no chance. I cannot imagine any reason why Apple would want to change the motherboard for a minor Haswell refresh -- unless they discover a way to reduce manufacturing costs, improve airflow, or something like that.

No no no, I'm talking about the next major refresh (November-February). If there is a minor spec bump anytime between now and the next full refresh I don't even care about it. I think there is 0% chance they'd switch GPU's for a minor spec bump (it simply wouldn't be a minor spec bump then, and would constitute a change big enough to wait until the full refresh).

I give it about a 30% chance that the 15" Broadwell rMBP will be available with a discrete GPU. In the seemingly unlikely event that Apple might offer a 17" Broadwell rMBP, then I give it an 80% chance that the 17" model would include a discrete GPU.

That seems awful low. Last years chances should be lower than this years chances imo. This year the difference between the iGPU and dGPU will be much larger; so regardless of apple's long term plan, I think that means something. If they come out with a 17" again, I think the chances should be more like 95% haha. What do you expect them to do otherwise? Broadwell iGPU with 0.5GB cache?

 

[mcarling]

No no no, I'm talking about the next major refresh (November-February). If there is a minor spec bump anytime between now and the next full refresh I don't even care about it. I think there is 0% chance they'd switch GPU's for a minor spec bump (it simply wouldn't be a minor spec bump then, and would constitute a change big enough to wait until the full refresh).

I wanted to clarify because you wrote 'this years 15" ....' With Broadwell chips suitable for the MBP delayed until 2015, it seemed like you might have meant a minor refresh.

That seems awful low. Last years chances should be lower than this years chances imo. This year the difference between the iGPU and dGPU will be much larger; so regardless of apple's long term plan, I think that means something. If they come out with a 17" again, I think the chances should be more like 95% haha. What do you expect them to do otherwise? Broadwell iGPU with 0.5GB cache?

In 2011, Apple dropped the discrete GPU from the MBA and the 13" cMBP. The 13" rMBP never had a discrete GPU. In 2013, Apple dropped the discrete GPU from the mainstream 15" rMBP and kept it only for the high-end 15" rMBP. The writing is on the wall, my friend.

The question is not how much the 850M is improved relative to the 750M. The question is whether or not the Intel integrated graphics in Broadwell are "good enough". Since Apple considered the Intel integrated graphics in Haswell "good enough" for the mainstream 15" rMBP, it would be surprising if the Intel integrated graphics in Broadwell do not meet Apple's threshold of "good enough" to suffice for all 15" rMBPs.

 

[Vanilla35]

I wanted to clarify because you wrote 'this years 15" ....' With Broadwell chips suitable for the MBP delayed until 2015, it seemed like you might have meant a minor refresh.

Ok got it. I figured since the majority of (full) refreshes take place during the fall, and it is 2014, that "this year" would have been appropriate. Generally speaking, this delay is an exception, and because normally it would have fallen under "this year" - I didn't change my terminology.

In 2011, Apple dropped the discrete GPU from the MBA and the 13" cMBP. The 13" rMBP never had a discrete GPU. In 2013, Apple dropped the discrete GPU from the mainstream 15" rMBP and kept it only for the high-end 15" rMBP. The writing is on the wall, my friend.

The question is not how much the 850M is improved relative to the 750M. The question is whether or not the Intel integrated graphics in Broadwell are "good enough". Since Apple considered the Intel integrated graphics in Haswell "good enough" for the mainstream 15" rMBP, it would be surprising if the Intel integrated graphics in Broadwell do not meet Apple's threshold of "good enough" to suffice for all 15" rMBPs.

Yeah I know it's inevitable . I feel like "good enough" is still relevant when taking into account that the 850M is going to be a new standard for this upcoming year. There are two ways to think about it. First, you could think that Apple will drop the dGPU as soon as possible given that Intel's iGPU meets a specific number of performance in various criteria. Second, Apple does the above, but instead of comparing to a specific level of performance, compares it relative to the "standard" dGPU of that year. See where I'm getting at?

Last year, the Iris Pro was "good enough" to replace the 750M (they were indeed very similar). This year, if Broadwell iGPU isn't "good enough" to replace the 850M, then I highly doubt they'll replace all models of the 15" with iGPU only.

 

[mcarling]

Yeah I know it's inevitable . I feel like "good enough" is still relevant when taking into account that the 850M is going to be a new standard for this upcoming year. There are two ways to think about it. First, you could think that Apple will drop the dGPU as soon as possible given that Intel's iGPU meets a specific number of performance in various criteria. Second, Apple does the above, but instead of comparing to a specific level of performance, compares it relative to the "standard" dGPU of that year. See where I'm getting at?

Last year, the Iris Pro was "good enough" to replace the 750M (they were indeed very similar). This year, if Broadwell iGPU isn't "good enough" to replace the 850M, then I highly doubt they'll replace all models of the 15" with iGPU only.

First, I think Apple will take the former approach to "good enough" not the latter i.e. I don't think Apple will take the performance of the 850M much into consideration in deciding whether or not to drop the last vestiges of the discrete GPU from their laptops. They are more likely to take the price of the 850M into consideration.

Second, all the rumors I'm hearing are that Broadwell will offer a great advance over Haswell in terms of integrated graphics performance.

 

[Vanilla35]

Apple might offer a 17" Broadwell rMBP, then I give it an 80% chance that the 17" model would include a discrete GPU.

I just stumbled into this post: Here

I didn't realize that was the case, however if Razer is only offering a 1080p screen in their 17" model then it likely means QHD+ is not quite ready for mass production (at an affordable cost). Therefore if apple has any plans to reintroduce the 17", it won't be this year.

 

[mcarling]

I didn't realize that was the case, however if Razer is only offering a 1080p screen in their 17" model then it likely means QHD+ is not quite ready for mass production (at an affordable cost). Therefore if apple has any plans to reintroduce the 17", it won't be this year.

You seem to be starting from the premise that a 17" rMBP would necessarily have 3840x2160 resolution. I think it's more likely that Apple would source 17" screens with the same pixel density the rMBPs use now, just larger and fewer cuts from each panel.

 

[Vanilla35]

I don't think Apple will take the performance of the 850M much into consideration in deciding whether or not to drop the last vestiges of the discrete GPU from their laptops. They are more likely to take the price of the 850M into consideration.

Right, I hadn't considered the price at all. That is a very likely case then, .

Second, all the rumors I'm hearing are that Broadwell will offer a great advance over Haswell in terms of integrated graphics performance.

Well that's reassuring. I was getting worried that Intel had used up a lot of what they had with Iris pro, and wouldn't be able to make another large gain like they did in Haswell's iGPU.

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You seem to be starting from the premise that a 17" rMBP would necessarily have 3840x2160 resolution. I think it's more likely that Apple would source 17" screens with the same pixel density the rMBPs use now, just larger and fewer cuts from each panel.

Isn't that technically not possible with the resolution? I thought it had to be doubled, or quadrupled to create the same screen real estate. Either way, I don't think the pixel densities have to equate, since the 13" technically has a higher PPI. Also, with the 13" rMBP, and the 15" rMBP they kept the exact same resolution, but doubled the pixels. That is why the 15" rMBP is 2800x1800 (the 15" cMBP was 1440x900). Therefore I think it's more than likely the case they'd go for 3840x2160, as it's both pixel doubled (like the rest of the rMBP line up) and also maintains native 1080p display screen real estate.