Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread

[mcarling]

Well that's reassuring. I was getting worried that Intel had used up a lot of what they had with Iris pro, and wouldn't be able to make another large gain like they did in Haswell's iGPU.

The switch from 22nm to 14nm means that Intel get to put twice as many devices (and elements) on a die of a given size. With the probable exception of the 28W parts going from dual-core to quad-core, the cores will get less the double the number of devices and the GPU may get about double, while still shrinking die sizes and reducing power consumption.

Isn't that technically not possible with the resolution? I thought it had to be doubled, or quadrupled to create the same screen real estate. Either way, I don't think the pixel densities have to equate, since the 13" technically has a higher PPI. Also, with the 13" rMBP, and the 15" rMBP they kept the exact same resolution, but doubled the pixels. That is why the 15" rMBP is 2800x1800 (the 15" cMBP was 1440x900). Therefore I think it's more than likely the case they'd go for 3840x2160, as it's both pixel doubled (like the rest of the rMBP line up) and also maintains native 1080p display screen real estate.

Think back to when the resolution of the 17" MBP was 1680x1050. That's the resolution Apple would double, just as they doubled the earlier 1440x900 resolution of the 15" MBP, not the later 1680x1050 resolution.

 

[koyoot]

With the probable exception of the 28W parts going from dual-core to quad-core

Any source to this information?

 

[mcarling]

Any source to this information?

It's my own prediction based on having written circuit simulation software at Intel for the CPU designers. The line of CPUs which currently consume 28W (used in the 13" rMBPs) will go quad-core with either Broadwell or Skylake. I think Broadwell is more likely.

 

[Vanilla35]

The switch from 22nm to 14nm means that Intel get to put twice as many devices (and elements) on a die of a given size. With the probable exception of the 28W parts going from dual-core to quad-core, the cores will get less the double the number of devices and the GPU may get about double, while still shrinking die sizes and reducing power consumption.

Hmm. Weird thought process trying to think of how I'd feel about owning an only iGPU 15" rMBP. The subjectivity is killing me

Think back to when the resolution of the 17" MBP was 1680x1050. That's the resolution Apple would double, just as they doubled the earlier 1440x900 resolution of the 15" MBP, not the later 1680x1050 resolution.

I wasn't enough into Apple products/tech back then, but yeah that would make much more sense now that I'm aware of that.

 

[mcarling]

Weird thought process trying to think of how I'd feel about owning an only iGPU 15" rMBP. The subjectivity is killing me

I can remember when cramming one million devices onto a single die was a fantasy. Increasing integration is what drives performance. Embrace integration.

 

[Vanilla35]

I can remember when cramming one million devices onto a single die was a fantasy. Increasing integration is what drives performance. Embrace integration.

Yeah but my needs and desires for playing a game at a high quality still makes me feel edgy about it

I remember when snake was the only game available on cell phones

 

[mcarling]

Weird thought process trying to think of how I'd feel about owning an only iGPU 15" rMBP.

What are you using now?

 

[koyoot]

It's my own prediction based on having written circuit simulation software at Intel for the CPU designers. The line of CPUs which currently consume 28W (used in the 13" rMBPs) will go quad-core with either Broadwell or Skylake. I think Broadwell is more likely.

Bigger possibility is that there will be one model of Quad core with 28W in Broadwell revision.


Skylake will bring Quad Core to whole lineup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)

But that is really tempting. 28W Quad Core in rMBP 13 with GT3e - that could be the best mobile computer on the market.

 

[mcarling]

Bigger possibility is that there will be one model of Quad core with 28W in Broadwell revision.

That's possible, but unlikely.

 

[Vanilla35]

What are you using now?

Hey you're not allowed to go there

I've still got the computer that I bought just before going into college. Asus K42J

 

[koyoot]

That's possible, but unlikely.

You really think that 28W Mobile CPUs from Intel will now be Quad Core?

What about 37W and 47W chips?

 

[mcarling]

I was hoping to get myself a graduation present by fall at the latest

I've still got the computer that I bought just before going into college. Asus K42J

Get a Haswell rMBP. Either wait for the expected summer refresh or get a refurb. If Broadwell introduces anything really awesome, then sell the Haswell rMBP and get a Broadwell rMBP.

You really think that 28W Mobile CPUs from Intel will now be Quad Core?

Probably with Broadwell. With Skylake at the latest.

What about 37W and 47W chips?

They will stay quad-core for a few more years. The desktop Haswell CPUs are still quad-core. Only the server CPUs have more than four cores. The desktop CPUs will exceed four cores at least two years before the mobile CPUs do.

 

[koyoot]

Probably with Broadwell. With Skylake at the latest.
They will stay quad-core for a few more years. The desktop Haswell CPUs are still quad-core. Only the server CPUs have more than four cores. The desktop CPUs will exceed four cores at least two years before the mobile CPUs do.

Thank you for your response.

That would make sense why Intel delays starting production of Broadwell up to 2H of 2014.

Im sure that all Skylake Chips will be 4Core. If this is the point - Broadwell 13'' MBP will get 2.3 GHz Quad Core processor, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, and an Intel HD 5800(which will be 40% faster than Iris Pro - around 3.5K points in 3dMark11 which looks like to compare with GTX760M).

If this will be true it will be pretty amazing performance for a 13 inch laptop...

And it will not canibalize 15 inch MBP cause of Maxwell.
Nice times for these laptops, I have to say .

 

[mcarling]

Thank you for your response.

You're welcome.

That would make sense why Intel delays starting production of Broadwell up to 2H of 2014.

It's unrelated.

Im sure that all Skylake Chips will be 4Core.

I'm not. It's not at all clear that the 15W parts used in the MBAs will be quad-core with Skylake. It's even less likely for the 11W parts.

If this is the point - Broadwell 13'' MBP will get 2.3 GHz Quad Core processor ....

I don't expect such high clock rates for a Broadwell quad-core 28W part.

 

[koyoot]

I'm not. It's not at all clear that the 15W parts used in the MBAs will be quad-core with Skylake. It's even less likely for the 11W parts.

I was thinking about 28W(25?) and higher TDP parts.

I don't expect such high clock rates for a Broadwell quad-core 28W part.

Yes, after I posted it, I checked how Intel clocked 35 and 37W 4cores in the past.

Biggest possibility is that 28W part will be 2.0 GHz or even less.

 

[Vanilla35]

Bump

How's everyone feeling about this? I still can't wait for Maxwell graphics

 

[UBS28]

Bump

How's everyone feeling about this? I still can't wait for Maxwell graphics

If Intel won't release Broadwell in 2014 Q4 but in 2015 Q1, I don't think Broadwell is worth the wait considering Skylake is expected to be released around 2015 Q2/Q3. (So I would skip Broadwell and go for Skylake)

The 20nm Maxwell GPU will probably also be released in 2015 (apparently it won't be ready at 2014 Q4).

 

[Vanilla35]

If Intel won't release Broadwell in 2014 Q4 but in 2015 Q1, I don't think Broadwell is worth the wait considering Skylake is expected to be released around 2015 Q2/Q3. (So I would skip Broadwell and go for Skylake)

The 20nm Maxwell GPU will probably also be released in 2015 (apparently it won't be ready at 2014 Q4).

Logically, if Broadwell is pushed back, Skylake would be too. The wait would be no shorter than it would have been before

 

[UBS28]

Logically, if Broadwell is pushed back, Skylake would be too. The wait would be no shorter than it would have been before

Why would that be logical? If the die shrink (Broadwell) is the problem and not the Skylake architecture, then nothing is stopping Skylake from the 2015 Q2/Q3 launch. There have been no issues reported with the Skylake architecture, just Broadwell which is only the die shrink. So if Intel can produce 14nm CPU's before 2015 Q2 with the launch of Broadwell, Skylake is still on schedule.

According to some rumours, Skylake could be released alongside Broadwell in 2015 Q2 as Broadwell delays have disrupted the tick-tock schedule. But this applies to desktops.

 

[i1280]

Buy a Haswell in the next month or wait for Broadwell? Opinions?

 

[Plerf]

Buy a Haswell in the next month or wait for Broadwell? Opinions?

Buy now.

Prepare to sell and re-buy when Broadwell comes.

 

[OSX15]

Buy a Haswell in the next month or wait for Broadwell? Opinions?

I was in the same boat.. (see my thread)
Anyway, I decided to order it today and just be happy with it.. we can always get a better/newer version in one or two years time

 

[squidkitten]

Buy now.

Prepare to sell and re-buy when Broadwell comes.

I think this might be my strategy. My 2010 13" is sort of having a rough go of it and I need more screen real estate for CC and FCP in the coming semester. It seems like the machines will maintain their value pretty well.

 

[whitedragon101]

I really don't think we have to worry about iGPU only for all models. Apple have already made the decision with Haswell and Kepler. We know the numbers for then and we know the numbers now.

Last time:
Haswell iris Pro vs Kepler 750m
The 750m had 25%-75% better performance in 3D games
Apple chose to use a 750m

This time:
Broadwell iris Pro vs Maxwell 850m
iris Pro performance could be up to +40% over Haswell Iris Pro
850m performance is already benchmarked at +75% over 750m
850m has lower heat and power consumption than 750m
Apple will choose? (odds stacked even more towards dGPU than last time)

 

[AAtte]

Graphics performance

Do you think Iris Pro Broadwell (6200) will be powerful enough to run games like Assassin's Creed Blag Flag and the forth coming Assassin's Creed games? That game series is the only one important to me. Of course a little Battlefield 4 now and then wouldn't hurt me... Or should I buy the 15'' Retina 750M model now? I would love the battery life upgrade that comes with Broadwell. Maybe 10 hours? Even the current model does 9 hours, even though Apple says 8 hours. That is the only reason I'm thinking of this.

Here in Finland you can get the 15'' base model or used 750M model for little under 1900 euros. I can wait for the Broadwell, as I have Macbook Air, but I'm suffering a little because of the missing game performance and small screen size.

So.. Thoughts. And knowledge, if there are..