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Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread

zI INFINITY Iz said:
I have two big problems with Ultrabooks/MBA in general: 1. working hard for hours on a 13" screen is not a nice experience for me and 2. performance is "just" enough for my programs. Got myself a very nice 24" Dell monitor for €239, so I at least solved the problem of working for long periods of time on a 13" screen. Really hated that. Now I got a very portable laptop and a large screen at home. Only thing missing is performance :p
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If you are the kind of person who cares about mobility, I would absolutely suggest a 13" rMBP. I would get a 13" but I can't pass up how much I love a 15" display (both for gaming and the general largeness of the screen over the 13", and for me that is more important than mobility (which to be honest I care very little about anyway). Also a dedicated GPU (or closest equivalent - if they take it out next year) is also more important to me. But those two reasons are the only ones that have me consider the 15".

Next years 13" rMBP might be a good bet for you (maybe even quad or 16GB ram?) But then again, supposedly next year the MBA will be getting retnia. And you know that's going to mean a large spec bump to come with it. My guess is next years rMBA will be similar to the current 13" rMBP. But to be honest I wouldn't advise trying to convince yourself to get anything except the 13" rMBP, it sounds perfect for you.

If your main concern is the 13" screen while in use, I'll give you my opinion on that. For me, personally, 13" is the line. On a 13" laptop, I can do work sufficiently for x amount of time (a short-medium length "shift") without really being bothered by the screen size or anything like that. On a 11, or 12" laptop it is uncomfortable for me almost all the time, and certainty over a short "shift". 14" laptop (my old windows computer) feels very adequate and I could do medium-long "shift"s without feeling strained or confined. A 15" laptop is quite spacious and it just feels like a non-compromise screen size for all day use.

That's just my opinion, of course. But my point in saying it is that for your circumstance you should be able to perfectly utilize and enjoy the 13" while you're on the run, and be able to equally enjoy using it at home, if you plug it into your monitor. And the power should be great too, for it's bump over the MBA.

Hope that helps. I know many people are on the fence. I'm one of those people who tries to help others understand not to let themselves be persuaded by feelings :p
 
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Some really good points you both made.

I knew GDDR5 wasn't great when it came to latency but I didn't realise it was that bad. I wasn't suggesting do away with DDR3/4 and go for pure GDDR5/6 but have a mixture of the two. Well providing both Intel and Nvidia keep a focus on maintaining a low power envelop while driving forward performance then I'll be extremely happy with each subsequent rMBP release. As since Sandy Bridge Intel have really let performance stagnate while driving down performance/watt - I completely understand why and it has lead to really power efficient platforms like the MBA and rMBP, I just think things will start to change. PC sales will start to recover, smartphones will start to stagnate and become cheaper (where have they got left to grow at the top end?) and we will see a focus from Intel for chips all the way from 1-2W all the way to 80W. Everyone I speak to about this says ARM will cause serious problems for Intel, while I don't think this is true, Intel has such R&D resources as well as the best fabs that ARM will struggle as Intel bring their higher end chips into ARM's TDP segments.
 
VanillaCracker said:
If you are the kind of person who cares about mobility, I would absolutely suggest a 13" rMBP. I would get a 13" but I can't pass up how much I love a 15" display (both for gaming and the general largeness of the screen over the 13", and for me that is more important than mobility (which to be honest I care very little about anyway). Also a dedicated GPU (or closest equivalent - if they take it out next year) is also more important to me. But those two reasons are the only ones that have me consider the 15".

Next years 13" rMBP might be a good bet for you (maybe even quad or 16GB ram?) But then again, supposedly next year the MBA will be getting retnia. And you know that's going to mean a large spec bump to come with it. My guess is next years rMBA will be similar to the current 13" rMBP. But to be honest I wouldn't advise trying to convince yourself to get anything except the 13" rMBP, it sounds perfect for you.

If your main concern is the 13" screen while in use, I'll give you my opinion on that. For me, personally, 13" is the line. On a 13" laptop, I can do work sufficiently for x amount of time (a short-medium length "shift") without really being bothered by the screen size or anything like that. On a 11, or 12" laptop it is uncomfortable for me almost all the time, and certainty over a short "shift". 14" laptop (my old windows computer) feels very adequate and I could do medium-long "shift"s without feeling strained or confined. A 15" laptop is quite spacious and it just feels like a non-compromise screen size for all day use.

That's just my opinion, of course. But my point in saying it is that for your circumstance you should be able to perfectly utilize and enjoy the 13" while you're on the run, and be able to equally enjoy using it at home, if you plug it into your monitor. And the power should be great too, for it's bump over the MBA.

Hope that helps. I know many people are on the fence. I'm one of those people who tries to help others understand not to let themselves be persuaded by feelings :p
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Love this post so much. I'm with you, 13" is the line for me. I feel comfortable using a 13" all day, but the 15" gives that luxurious feeling.

I got my 13" a few days ago and love it, and really the only reason I got it over the 15" is for airplane use. But I could easily use my iPad in that situation.

I'm going to be doing intense traveling, so the 13" felt better suited for me. However, a 15" fits in my bag just the same as the 13, and the 15-inch is now the weight of the old 13-inch. So I could have just as easily gone the other way.

Honestly though, the size difference between the 13 and 15 is pretty striking once you actually use them in person. It might not seem like a big difference, but it is.
 
Hard4Picard said:
I'm actually waiting for the one after Broadwell

#SkylakeOrBust
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Me too ,mainly for Thunderbolt 3 at 50Gbps and for a more robust
i-gpu in .
Nor a chance i will buy a 750 m for a about 2600 + soldered rams,
and the i-one doesn't convince me still,so i'll stick till it resists with
my 2010 MacBook Pro.
I have to say that i won't wait for a better i-gpu for gaming,
basically to game at best you switch with bootcamp to windows isn'it?
So for me its better to buy a Windows machine for gaming and Mac for work
while traveling.
I only wonder if ...forgive my ignorance...is realistic to drive cad app with an ì-gpu,for example the great LUMION doesn't work with i-gpus so.. .

Have a nice day.

----------
VanillaCracker said:
Aside from my previous post:

While it is true that no one can predict what apple will do next. I think it is quite obvious from what they've done that they're continuing to strive towards dropping the dGPU completely...they just decreased the price of the computer by $200. They're wouldn't have done that had they not planned to phase out the dGPU eventually. The true question lies in interpreting their future strategy based on what they did with the high-end model. They force you to buy a fully spec'd out model for the 750M this year. ( <-- that's the decision to analyze).

It makes me think that they will get rid of a standard dGPU next year. Especially if Maxwell dGPU's increase in price a little bit (likely imo, as we're still in a semi volatile period in the market with companies erring on the side of conservatism), I find it likely they will have only a BTO order dGPU next year, or maybe if their strategy is more daring they will take dGPU out of the equation completely. You can also look at how they are essentially giving you a "free" 750M (in the high-end model) this year and notice that with them doing this they are eating a bit of profit margin from the product (they make more money off the lower-end model, than the higher end model because of this). That's not something a company would normally do, unless it was, maybe, a bypass for a new strategy - to be fully implemented next year with cutting the dGPU cut out completely (to remain as a BTO, or maybe not even).
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Yes and that fully expensive model is too close to the entry Mac Pro Price.
I know ,they are different machines but..my wallet is just one,so i have to choose.
 
VanillaCracker said:
Speaking from personal experience (back when I was like 13 and knew nothing of computers) that's not the conclusion I came to. I knew intel was good for computers, but I also related Nvidia to powerful gaming, thus graphics. There is aboslutely no connection I had with Intel being that it would be good with graphics.
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To the extent that computer purchases are decided by geeky 13-year olds, I might have to agree with you. However, if we were to survey the full cross-section of computer buyers (or laptop buyers), we would find much higher name recognition for Intel than for Nvidia. We would probably also find somewhat higher positive associations for Intel, but the latter is less clear.
VanillaCracker said:
I think it is quite obvious from what [Apple have] done that they're continuing to strive towards dropping the dGPU completely....
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Yes, exactly.
 
VanillaCracker said:
Next years 13" rMBP might be a good bet for you (maybe even quad or 16GB ram?) But then again, supposedly next year the MBA will be getting retnia. And you know that's going to mean a large spec bump to come with it. My guess is next years rMBA will be similar to the current 13" rMBP. But to be honest I wouldn't advise trying to convince yourself to get anything except the 13" rMBP, it sounds perfect for you.
Click to expand...

I agree. The 13" rMBP sounds right for zI INFINITY Iz.

I also expect next year's Broadwell MBA to get many of the features in this year's 13" Haswell rMBP, including the Retina display. I expect the main differences between the Broadwell MBA and the 13" Broadwell MBP will be 4GB or 8GB DRAM versus 8GB or 16GB and significantly different CPU performance (the 13" Broadwell MBP may have quad-core options, but the Broadwell MBA will be strictly dual-core). The MBP can be expected to continue to have a few more ports than the MBA and the Broadwell MBA is rumored be reduced from 13.3" to 12.6". The Broadwell MBP may have higher-end integrated graphics than the Broadwell MBA.
 
NVIDIA announced that the 800M lineup will be launched at Februari 2014. I predict that the early Haswell 2014 rMBP will use these Maxwell GPU's while the Broadwell GPU's use the 900m series from NVIDIA.

For professionals, the 800m lineup will offer up to 8gb of VRAM. The CPU can make use of this VRAM. Note that VRAM > normal RAM in terms of speed.

So the Broadwell rMBP will likely have faster memory since VRAM can be used by the CPU.
 
UBS28 said:
NVIDIA announced that the 800M lineup will be launched at Februari 2014. I predict that the early Haswell 2014 rMBP will use these Maxwell GPUs while the Broadwell GPUs use the 900m series from NVIDIA.
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Early Haswell 2014 rMBP??? What are you talking about??? Apple will not significantly revise the MBPs before summer 2014 -- at the earliest.

The biggest change we can reasonably hope for, prior to summer 2014, would be something like raising the minimum DRAM from 4GB to 8GB and maintaining the $1299 price point. If that happens (and I'm not suggesting that it will happen; only that it might happen), then Apple might discontinue the remaining cMBP at the same time. Anything other than changes in DRAM capacity, SSD capacity, CPU clock speed, or price are out of the question before summer 2014.
 
VanillaCracker said:
If you are the kind of person who cares about mobility, I would absolutely suggest a 13" rMBP. I would get a 13" but I can't pass up how much I love a 15" display (both for gaming and the general largeness of the screen over the 13", and for me that is more important than mobility (which to be honest I care very little about anyway). Also a dedicated GPU (or closest equivalent - if they take it out next year) is also more important to me. But those two reasons are the only ones that have me consider the 15".

Next years 13" rMBP might be a good bet for you (maybe even quad or 16GB ram?) But then again, supposedly next year the MBA will be getting retnia. And you know that's going to mean a large spec bump to come with it. My guess is next years rMBA will be similar to the current 13" rMBP. But to be honest I wouldn't advise trying to convince yourself to get anything except the 13" rMBP, it sounds perfect for you.

If your main concern is the 13" screen while in use, I'll give you my opinion on that. For me, personally, 13" is the line. On a 13" laptop, I can do work sufficiently for x amount of time (a short-medium length "shift") without really being bothered by the screen size or anything like that. On a 11, or 12" laptop it is uncomfortable for me almost all the time, and certainty over a short "shift". 14" laptop (my old windows computer) feels very adequate and I could do medium-long "shift"s without feeling strained or confined. A 15" laptop is quite spacious and it just feels like a non-compromise screen size for all day use.

That's just my opinion, of course. But my point in saying it is that for your circumstance you should be able to perfectly utilize and enjoy the 13" while you're on the run, and be able to equally enjoy using it at home, if you plug it into your monitor. And the power should be great too, for it's bump over the MBA.

Hope that helps. I know many people are on the fence. I'm one of those people who tries to help others understand not to let themselves be persuaded by feelings :p
Click to expand...

mcarling said:
I agree. The 13" rMBP sounds right for zI INFINITY Iz.

I also expect next year's Broadwell MBA to get many of the features in this year's 13" Haswell rMBP, including the Retina display. I expect the main differences between the Broadwell MBA and the 13" Broadwell MBP will be 4GB or 8GB DRAM versus 8GB or 16GB and significantly different CPU performance (the 13" Broadwell MBP may have quad-core options, but the Broadwell MBA will be strictly dual-core). The MBP can be expected to continue to have a few more ports than the MBA and the Broadwell MBA is rumored be reduced from 13.3" to 12.6". The Broadwell MBP may have higher-end integrated graphics than the Broadwell MBA.
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Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. Now that I have a pretty big 24" IPS screen at home, I realize this may be a much better style for me and what I might do in the future after I finish my ID study. While a 15" screen might beat a 13" with ease, a 24" or larger monitor still is a much better experience imo. In my work, little details matter a lot. I use Solidworks (2010 or 2013/14), Photoshop and Indesign all at once pretty often.

In the 2 weeks I owned the 15" Haswell rMBP, I saw that it can handle these things with ease, often not even hearing the fans or generating any heat. And Solidworks was running in Parallels 9, full Windows 8.1 next to OS X. It was a beast. I think the current 13" might be fine too, but I'm hoping the next 13" will really be a little beast on it's own. Quad Core is much appreciated for some stuff in Solidworks. And I'm hoping for a boost in iGPU. Fingers crossed... to bad it's probably going to be a (very) long wait. I wouldn't be surprised if I crack before the broadwell versions come out :p
 
UBS28 said:
NVIDIA announced that the 800M lineup will be launched at Februari 2014. I predict that the early Haswell 2014 rMBP will use these Maxwell GPU's while the Broadwell GPU's use the 900m series from NVIDIA.

For professionals, the 800m lineup will offer up to 8gb of VRAM. The CPU can make use of this VRAM. Note that VRAM > normal RAM in terms of speed.

So the Broadwell rMBP will likely have faster memory since VRAM can be used by the CPU.
Click to expand...

Yeah dude they aren't making any real changes for the "refresh" in February, if they do that. But thanks for the GPU series refrences. I'm gonna look up their proedicted performance now. Can't wait to see what I might be getting into (game-wise) - on the next 15".

zI INFINITY Iz said:
In the 2 weeks I owned the 15" Haswell rMBP, I saw that it can handle these things with ease, often not even hearing the fans or generating any heat. And Solidworks was running in Parallels 9, full Windows 8.1 next to OS X. It was a beast. I think the current 13" might be fine too, but I'm hoping the next 13" will really be a little beast on it's own. Quad Core is much appreciated for some stuff in Solidworks. And I'm hoping for a boost in iGPU. Fingers crossed... to bad it's probably going to be a (very) long wait. I wouldn't be surprised if I crack before the broadwell versions come out :p
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I would definitely recommend cracking as soon as possible. It is definitely a long ways off, and I think you would be able to enjoy the current gen until your "awaited" model comes out, and then you can sell and upgrade. It is very possible to wait out until the model you "so desire" and still be just as happy with it once you upgrade, and keep it for years. Just because you are jumping only 1 generation doesn't mean you're going to feel obligated to do it every year.
 
VanillaCracker said:
Yeah dude they aren't making any real changes for the "refresh" in February, if they do that.
Click to expand...

The only Mac update we can reasonably hope to see in Q1 2014m is the Mac mini. All the other Macs are fresh (the MBA a little bit less fresh than the others).
 
Wuiffi said:
Who knows if there will even be Maxwell (or dedicated GPUs in general) in the next Macbook Pros. And for IGZO, I guess it is good, but not "the savior of the macbook". I mean LTPS is probably an even better display technology, but no one is waiting for that (because it is probably too expensive to ever come to big screens)
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I think they definitely will have a dGPU option to accommodate people who want to connect their MBP to external 4K display(s), which they are pushing really hard in their Mac Pro marketing. One can hardly imagine doing any tasks at all besides basic output with only an integrated GPU.

In fact, this is precisely the camp I'm in. One of many reasons I passed on the Haswell rMBP was because I'm hoping for better graphics capabilities (hopefully even a 4GB GDDR5 dGPU option) in the Broadwell rMBP in order to run double 4K displays down the line. By that time, they will also hopefully have HDMI 2.0 or DP 1.3 ports available.
 
accountforit said:
How many people actually need and will use 18 cores? I mean really? Most people who buy computers these days don't take full advantage of 2 cores.
Click to expand...

If Intel produce an 18-core Broadwell CPU, it will be a server chip, and the only Mac into which it might go would be the Mac Pro. The 15" Broadwell MBP will stay quad-core. The 13" Broadwell MBP might go quad-core, at least at the high end. The Broadwell MBA will stay dual-core.

If I didn't already have an early 2013 MacBook Pro, I would buy a Haswell MBP. I don't see any changes coming with Broadwell that compel waiting.
 
the 18 core Broadwellchip is Broadwell EP and isn't expected until end of 2015. Intels EP chips are about 1 year behind. That's why the new Mac Pro uses Ivy Bridge EP and not Haswell (which is probably coming in Q3/Q4).
 
VanillaCracker said:
If you are the kind of person who cares about mobility, I would absolutely suggest a 13" rMBP. I would get a 13" but I can't pass up how much I love a 15" display (both for gaming and the general largeness of the screen over the 13", and for me that is more important than mobility (which to be honest I care very little about anyway). Also a dedicated GPU (or closest equivalent - if they take it out next year) is also more important to me. But those two reasons are the only ones that have me consider the 15".

Next years 13" rMBP might be a good bet for you (maybe even quad or 16GB ram?) But then again, supposedly next year the MBA will be getting retnia. And you know that's going to mean a large spec bump to come with it. My guess is next years rMBA will be similar to the current 13" rMBP. But to be honest I wouldn't advise trying to convince yourself to get anything except the 13" rMBP, it sounds perfect for you.

If your main concern is the 13" screen while in use, I'll give you my opinion on that. For me, personally, 13" is the line. On a 13" laptop, I can do work sufficiently for x amount of time (a short-medium length "shift") without really being bothered by the screen size or anything like that. On a 11, or 12" laptop it is uncomfortable for me almost all the time, and certainty over a short "shift". 14" laptop (my old windows computer) feels very adequate and I could do medium-long "shift"s without feeling strained or confined. A 15" laptop is quite spacious and it just feels like a non-compromise screen size for all day use.

That's just my opinion, of course. But my point in saying it is that for your circumstance you should be able to perfectly utilize and enjoy the 13" while you're on the run, and be able to equally enjoy using it at home, if you plug it into your monitor. And the power should be great too, for it's bump over the MBA.

Hope that helps. I know many people are on the fence. I'm one of those people who tries to help others understand not to let themselves be persuaded by feelings :p
Click to expand...

Seeing how well you helped zI INFINITY Iz, maybe you can help me too. I saved up quite a bit of money in preparation of building a Hackintosh. After an arduous amount of thinking, I decided just buying a new rMBP will be the best thing for me. I have money set aside, and along with this, I plan on getting rid of my 2012 non-rMBP for a little extra money.

I was aiming for a 13'' rMBP with 16GB, a 256GB SSD, and potentially the 2.6 GHz i5. However my plans came crashing down the more and more I read into Broadwell.

Now I don't exactly NEED the new one right now, except the longer I wait, the less my current Mac will be worth. However, if I were to sell it now, I would be without a computer for months, assuming I don't just crack and buy the Haswell model. When I had purchased my 2012 MBP, the 15'' rMBP was the only model available. Had I waited another, oh, 5 months, I would not be here today. The second the 13'' rMBP was announced, I knew I had just lost thousands.

I cannot afford (literally;)) to make that mistake again. While there are heavy reports on this very website that Broadwell is going to be pushed to Q4 14/Q1 15, I am afraid that, once more, I will be digging my own grave with an outdated product. I cannot make a decision. Do I buy into Haswell, or wait for Broadwell? I want the newest product, but there is so much back and forth uncertainty with the release of Broadwell, and I am terribly impatient. I hope it is clear why I need your help!:( :apple:
 
TheTekJake said:
I cannot make a decision. Do I buy into Haswell, or wait for Broadwell? I want the newest product, but there is so much back and forth uncertainty with the release of Broadwell, and I am terribly impatient. I hope it is clear why I need your help!:( :apple:
Click to expand...

Is Broadwell going to affect your life or work over Haswell? I highly doubt it. Therefore, stop worrying about things that don't matter at all in life. Sell you current machine now for maximum return and buy a refurb Haswell to save yourself even more money. Win win.

Or......

Waste your life away waiting for a computer that most likely won't be released for close to a year from now. Let your current machine depreciate even more. Spend your days waiting and thinking about this upgrade for another year. Then spend more money than you have to when it's released unless you wait another 3-4 months after release for a refurb.
 
Haswell or waiting for Broadwell - perhaps quite some time?

TheTekJake said:
Seeing how well you helped zI INFINITY Iz, maybe you can help me too. I saved up quite a bit of money in preparation of building a Hackintosh. After an arduous amount of thinking, I decided just buying a new rMBP will be the best thing for me. I have money set aside, and along with this, I plan on getting rid of my 2012 non-rMBP for a little extra money.

I was aiming for a 13'' rMBP with 16GB, a 256GB SSD, and potentially the 2.6 GHz i5. However my plans came crashing down the more and more I read into Broadwell.

Now I don't exactly NEED the new one right now, except the longer I wait, the less my current Mac will be worth. However, if I were to sell it now, I would be without a computer for months, assuming I don't just crack and buy the Haswell model. When I had purchased my 2012 MBP, the 15'' rMBP was the only model available. Had I waited another, oh, 5 months, I would not be here today. The second the 13'' rMBP was announced, I knew I had just lost thousands.

I cannot afford (literally;)) to make that mistake again. While there are heavy reports on this very website that Broadwell is going to be pushed to Q4 14/Q1 15, I am afraid that, once more, I will be digging my own grave with an outdated product. I cannot make a decision. Do I buy into Haswell, or wait for Broadwell? I want the newest product, but there is so much back and forth uncertainty with the release of Broadwell, and I am terribly impatient. I hope it is clear why I need your help!:( :apple:
Click to expand...

I can understand your problems regarding these matters. This link is to a relatively new article about the release of Broadwell and will give you more updated information, for what it's worth:

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/02/19/sky-falling-intels-14nm-broadwell/
 
TheTekJake said:
Seeing how well you helped zI INFINITY Iz, maybe you can help me too. I saved up quite a bit of money in preparation of building a Hackintosh. After an arduous amount of thinking, I decided just buying a new rMBP will be the best thing for me. I have money set aside, and along with this, I plan on getting rid of my 2012 non-rMBP for a little extra money.

I was aiming for a 13'' rMBP with 16GB, a 256GB SSD, and potentially the 2.6 GHz i5. However my plans came crashing down the more and more I read into Broadwell.

Now I don't exactly NEED the new one right now, except the longer I wait, the less my current Mac will be worth. However, if I were to sell it now, I would be without a computer for months, assuming I don't just crack and buy the Haswell model. When I had purchased my 2012 MBP, the 15'' rMBP was the only model available. Had I waited another, oh, 5 months, I would not be here today. The second the 13'' rMBP was announced, I knew I had just lost thousands.

I cannot afford (literally;)) to make that mistake again. While there are heavy reports on this very website that Broadwell is going to be pushed to Q4 14/Q1 15, I am afraid that, once more, I will be digging my own grave with an outdated product. I cannot make a decision. Do I buy into Haswell, or wait for Broadwell? I want the newest product, but there is so much back and forth uncertainty with the release of Broadwell, and I am terribly impatient. I hope it is clear why I need your help!:( :apple:
Click to expand...

I would definitely suggest getting Haswell now, and maximizing the sale on your current 2012 model. There is nothing for you in Broadwell other than a normal spec bump and potential for slightly better battery life. The Iris graphics on the current 2013 13" rMBP are great, and a much better value than the 2012 model's Intel 4000 were.
 
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