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I bought a 15" Macbook recently and then cancelled the order, gonna wait for Broadwell.

I think it's highly unlikely that Broadwell is coming next October as some people are saying. I think April-June is a much more realistic time frame.
 
I think it's highly unlikely that Broadwell is coming next October as some people are saying. I think April-June is a much more realistic time frame.

June is realistic though optimistic. April is unrealistic. Intel will not yet be shipping suitable Broadwell CPUs in April.
 
I predict - if Intel release Broadwell on CES2015, so is here small chance for new macbooks Early2015.
But if Intel not release on CES new cpu so is 99% chance on Mid/Late2015

.. wait some days isn't problem, CES is very soon (6.1.-9.1.2015)


Infact the early model is arrived in 2011,2013 and now, in my opinion, arrives in 2015...Without any rumors like the 2013..
 
Infact the early model is arrived in 2011,2013 and now, in my opinion, arrives in 2015...Without any rumors like the 2013..

...Yep...

All is it about Intel. If six months ago, Intel has complied release date (mid/later in 2014) so I could be in Late2014 with Broadwell.

Unfortunately Intel 14nm misjudged and release day has delay.

If Intel release in january on event ces CPUs what want Apple use in new macbook, so new macbook could be issued Early2015. And if Intel these CPUs not release on ces, so is chance on Mid/Late2015 more than 99%.

I will try to hold out until January and see everything eventually may be completely different. :D
 
...Yep...

All is it about Intel. If six months ago, Intel has complied release date (mid/later in 2014) so I could be in Late2014 with Broadwell.

Unfortunately Intel 14nm misjudged and release day has delay.

If Intel release in january on event ces CPUs what want Apple use in new macbook, so new macbook could be issued Early2015. And if Intel these CPUs not release on ces, so is chance on Mid/Late2015 more than 99%.

I will try to hold out until January and see everything eventually may be completely different. :D


So...we only have to wait CES
 
So...we only have to wait CES

Yes. Personally, I think that the actions CES2015 (6.1.-9.1.2015) everything decide.
When Intel releases a new processors on CES, so we have a chance on Early2015.
And if not, so the likely date would be Mid/Late2015.
 
My Question is, Will Broadwell be Stable and Bug Free ?

What is more important is, Can Broadwell Chips be considered a Viable option considering will it be a stable ? Bug Free release ? Providing optimum performance ? Therefore does it mean Skylake would be more refined, filtered, and a bug free package than Broadwell. That is more important for me to know. Will Broadwell be thoroughly tested and Bug Free before being offered to all the Vendors like Apple ? So in all does it make for everyone here to keep harping Broadwell...Broadwell...What If it is going to be a Necklace of Thorns ??

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If it was going to be released at CES i.e. Jan-2015 why are not many people reporting it ?? I doubt !! Very Unlikely that Broadwell will be announced in Jan-2015 at CES. Nope ! Not Happening for me !!
 
Now is an excellent time to buy a new MacBook. Broadwell MacBook Pro availability is probably six to nine months away.


What reports are those? The 15W Broadwell parts that could go into a MacBook Air are not even shipping yet, though probably will do so in Q1 2015. I would be stunned if the 37W Broadwell parts ship before Q2 or Q3 2015. While some Skylake parts will surely ship in late 2016, I'm not at all confident they will include the 37W parts.

Thanks mcarling.

I read several reports stating they believed Broadwell might come out sometime around the end of 1stQ or sometime 2ndQ. I have researched so many articles on this that it would take a bit of digging to find all of those articles again. However, the following article quotes a source in Taiwan as saying Skylake is slated to appear end of 3rdQ to sometime 4thQ. Extrapolating, if this is true, it is reasonable to think Broadwell would need to precede Skylake's release by at least 3-4 months (probably earlier) to make it economically feasible. Also, if the release dates were this close, as article questions, one might wonder if Apple would still use Broadwell or if if it does, would it still make Broadwell the big MBP update everyone's been waiting for?

Of course all of these "sources" and release dates seem like such conjecture at this point that it is very difficult to know what's what.

Article:
http://www.itworld.com/article/2842...release-of-skylake-generation-processors.html

Mcarling (and others) you seem to really know the MBP platforms well, if I may ask you . . . recognizing Skylake is the next big new micro architecture, and to wait for Broadwell may incline some to then decide to wait for Skylake. However, as you said, 1st generation Tock's may have some bugs to work out . . .

So, what do you anticipate Broadwell's "Tick" will offer over current Haswell (apart from another generation of potential dependability as you mentioned) and would feel the value significant that you'd be inclined to wait for it if slightly inconvenient but possible (current laptop is not in great shape and borrowing wife's late 2012 MBP much of time for significant work--not major problem but feel a little badly about it). Likewise, in addition to processor updates, do you think the Apple MBP platform itself will undergo that much change for Broadwell (if so what) or will that big update wait for Skylake?

Thank you very much!
 
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Yes, you should just buy now. Now is an excellent time to buy a MacBook Pro.


I formerly worked for Intel as a programmer responsible for the circuit simulation software the CPU designers used to verify their designs. I expect the Broadwell CPUs that Apple will use in the 2015 MacBook Pro models to outperform the Haswell CPUs in the current MacBook Pro models. One of us doesn't understand Tick-Tock.

You're not the only one who designs processor circuitry, it was part of my degree in 2nd year at uni to build an 8 bit ALU using nothing but logic.

So how does Broadwell outperform Haswell? They will share a very very similar architecture, so at the same clock speed how will one be better than the other in any measurable way? Since when do die shrinks offer better performance with the same clock speeds?
 
You're not the only one who designs processor circuitry, it was part of my degree in 2nd year at uni to build an 8 bit ALU using nothing but logic.

So how does Broadwell outperform Haswell? They will share a very very similar architecture, so at the same clock speed how will one be better than the other in any measurable way? Since when do die shrinks offer better performance with the same clock speeds?


We have some early benchmarks already. For the same power of 15w tdp seems like broadwell is approx 10% faster in cpu and 20% in gpu

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2413196
 
Intel Broadwell vs Haswell benchmarks (intel hd 5500 vs hd4400)

guys here is video with difference between HD4400 vs HD5500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTgubV1cwfo&feature=youtu.be
(video is published one day back)

I know this isn't version hd6000/hd6100 (because now have macs hd5100) but this is good look for difference and I mean that version hd6100 vs hd5100 will have +- same performance difference.
(in gpu benchmarks is difference between 10/20/30%, cpu +-10-20% and gpu 10-30% with same tdp) it's nice for same tdp and smaller package with space for more batteries wth)

and because new cpu have very more smaller package and motherboard so when apple left in macbooks same chassis so is here space for more batteries and with this more hours on battery.
 
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So how does Broadwell outperform Haswell? They will share a very very similar architecture, so at the same clock speed how will one be better than the other in any measurable way? Since when do die shrinks offer better performance with the same clock speeds?

Can't you put more execution units in one chip with a die shrink?
 
What is more important is, Can Broadwell Chips be considered a Viable option considering will it be a stable ? Bug Free release ? Providing optimum performance ? Therefore does it mean Skylake would be more refined, filtered, and a bug free package than Broadwell. That is more important for me to know. Will Broadwell be thoroughly tested and Bug Free before being offered to all the Vendors like Apple ?
Again, Broadwell has the same micro-architecture as Haswell, so Broadwell should have no new CPU bugs (which are normally invisible to end users anyway because the OS and compiler have to deal with them). Broadwell CPUs should be at least as stable as late Haswell CPUs. New architecture bugs will be introduced with Skylake but, again, these are usually invisible to end users. Unless one has a life-and-death application, I wouldn't worry about CPU errata.

Thanks mcarling.
You're welcome.

I read several reports stating they believed Broadwell might come out sometime around the end of 1stQ or sometime 2ndQ. I have researched so many articles on this that it would take a bit of digging to find all of those articles again. However, the following article quotes a source in Taiwan as saying Skylake is slated to appear end of 3rdQ to sometime 4thQ.
It takes time from the introduction of the 5W parts to the introduction of the 130W parts. Each new generation of CPUs is released in stages. This happens faster with Tock releases than Tick releases because Tick releases require replacing nearly all the equipment in the fabs but the Tock releases proceed with the same equipment in the fabs. So, for example, Skylake will roll out faster than Broadwell, once it starts. Still, Skylake will not roll out overnight. While I'm confident the 5W Skylake parts will ship in quantities in time for the 2015 holiday peak shopping season and I think the 15W and perhaps even 28W parts might also, I would be quite surprised if the 37W and 47W Skylake parts were to ship in quantity in time for the 2015 holiday peak shopping season. So I do not expect to see Skylake MBPs until 2016. We might see Skylake MBAs in H2 2015, but not MBPs, especially not 15" models.

So, what do you anticipate Broadwell's "Tick" will offer over current Haswell (apart from another generation of potential dependability as you mentioned) and would feel the value significant that you'd be inclined to wait for it if slightly inconvenient but possible (current laptop is not in great shape and borrowing wife's late 2012 MBP much of time for significant work--not major problem but feel a little badly about it). Likewise, in addition to processor updates, do you think the Apple MBP platform itself will undergo that much change for Broadwell (if so what) or will that big update wait for Skylake?
There is a chance that Apple might introduce a discrete Thunderbolt 3 chip with Broadwell to support Displayport 1.3. Other than that possibility, I expect the main improvements we'll see with Broadwell MBPs will be longer battery life, much better integrated graphics, and a modest improvement in overall performance. The high-end 15" model might or might not have a discrete GPU.

You're not the only one who designs processor circuitry, it was part of my degree in 2nd year at uni to build an 8 bit ALU using nothing but logic.

So how does Broadwell outperform Haswell? They will share a very very similar architecture, so at the same clock speed how will one be better than the other in any measurable way? Since when do die shrinks offer better performance with the same clock speeds?
Hypothetically, Intel could choose either of two extremes with a Tick cycle: 1) They could keep the transistor count the same and reduce the die size by 50%, which would dramatically improve battery life and reduce production costs, but would not improve performance except for a modest increase in possible clock speeds. 2) Keep the die size the same and double the transistor count, which would offer zero increase in battery life, probably increase production costs (due to likely lower yields), but result in a massive increase in performance due to more cores, more execution units, and bigger cache sizes. What Intel actually do is a compromise in between these hypothetical extremes aimed at keeping production costs on a gentle downhill slope, with moderate improvements in battery life and performance. Currently, transcending the discrete GPU market is a strategic priority for Intel and there is little or no pressure to increase the number of cores, so the increase in transistor count will go mostly into the iGPU, with the number of cores kept constant (except in server chips), and modest increases in cache sizes and execution unit counts.
 
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Again, Broadwell has the same micro-architecture as Haswell, so Broadwell should have no new CPU bugs (which are normally invisible to end users anyway because the OS and compiler have to deal with them). Broadwell CPUs should be at least as stable as late Haswell CPUs. New architecture bugs will be introduced with Skylake but, again, these are usually invisible to end users. Unless one has a life-and-death application, I wouldn't worry about CPU errata.

So you are saying an end user should not worry about is Broadwell gonna be more stable and bug free or Skylake, anyways it is not going to hamper or emerge as an obstacle in normal use from an end user point of view. But let me ask you this ? If you were to choose between Broadwell and Skylake which one that would be (Keeping aside each of them's technical capabilities) I am asking purely from a consistency, reliability and performance point of view ?
 
So you are saying an end user should not worry about is Broadwell gonna be more stable and bug free or Skylake, anyways it is not going to hamper or emerge as an obstacle in normal use from an end user point of view. But let me ask you this ? If you were to choose between Broadwell and Skylake which one that would be (Keeping aside each of them's technical capabilities) I am asking purely from a consistency, reliability and performance point of view ?

sorry guys but skylake is too long. skylake will not be release soon than q4in2015, in my predict maybe more :D +-q1/2in2016. look on delay with broadwell, and as i know intel - so intel after release broadwell wants to create the most money can from this tick. so isn't real that intel release three or four months after mobile broadwell new mobile. money say all, it's easy.

but ofcourse after intel release skylake, so it will be in all specs better, new ram better perf new instructions etc. but this architecture is now very long. i mean minimum 3/4y - 1y long (minimum) from release broadwell. and when you look now so broadwell still isn't out so in this situation is release skylake is still very very distant.
 
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So you are saying an end user should not worry about is Broadwell gonna be more stable and bug free or Skylake, anyways it is not going to hamper or emerge as an obstacle in normal use from an end user point of view. But let me ask you this ? If you were to choose between Broadwell and Skylake which one that would be (Keeping aside each of them's technical capabilities) I am asking purely from a consistency, reliability and performance point of view ?

Absolutely, without any doubt, Broadwell will have far fewer errata (bugs) than Skylake. Again, very few CPU bugs affect end users. An infamous exception was this one, from 20 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug
 
Absolutely, without any doubt, Broadwell will have far fewer errata (bugs) than Skylake. Again, very few CPU bugs affect end users. An infamous exception was this one, from 20 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug

But let me ask you this if you were a first time buyer like me of the Great...the monumental...the phenomenal,....the most desired possession on this Planet lol !! the effervescent...( is the Royal Trumpet playing on your ears ?? lol ) no so seriously if someone was a first time buyer who was out to buy the rMBP and I know you can't 100% but if one wants to considerably future proof his purchase (Technology Wise) should he wait for Skylake or should he just go ahead and do the Honours and oblige himself with going for Broadwell ! Will it be good enough ! Pretty enough !! to do all major tasks pretty smartly, infact would do it with one level of margin better, with a notch up than the current Haswell rMBP ! Should he ofcourse yes take the plunge with Broadwell or just get in to the waiting game of waiting...waiting...and waiting for Skylake !

If you were a first time buyer and If you were planning to buy one for yourself would you take the plunge with Broadwell or would you rather go for Skylake ? What stand would you take ?
 
If the CES rumors are true, does that mean 47w Broadwell will be out in time for Q1 15" mbp? If apple had put an 850M in the current 15" mbp, I wouldn't be fussing over this, but my impression is this will actually be consequential in futureproofing graphics.
 
But let me ask you this if you were a first time buyer like me of the Great...the monumental...the phenomenal,....the most desired possession on this Planet lol !! the effervescent...( is the Royal Trumpet playing on your ears ?? lol ) no so seriously if someone was a first time buyer who was out to buy the rMBP and I know you can't 100% but if one wants to considerably future proof his purchase (Technology Wise) should he wait for Skylake or should he just go ahead and do the Honours and oblige himself with going for Broadwell ! Will it be good enough ! Pretty enough !! to do all major tasks pretty smartly, infact would do it with one level of margin better, with a notch up than the current Haswell rMBP ! Should he ofcourse yes take the plunge with Broadwell or just get in to the waiting game of waiting...waiting...and waiting for Skylake !
New features get introduced at the CPU level with Tock releases, so Skylake will support DDR4 DRAM, but DDR4 doesn't make it future proof. In my opinion, it is the user-level IO which should be a concern in terms of future proofing. The Broadwell MBPs will probably get USB 3.1, but I don't think that's significant in terms of future proofing. It is difficult to imagine a future IO device that would work with USB 3.1 but not with USB 3.0. Apple will add support for Thunderbolt 3 and Displayport 1.3 with either the Broadwell or the Skylake MBPs. This is more significant because it will support an external 5K display at 60Hz. The Skylake MBPs might also get faster Wifi, but 802.11ac is already faster than most servers will provide content, even for those with 1Gbps Internet connections. Do I really care whether a 1080p iTunes movie downloads in one minute or two minutes? No, I don't, but someone might.

If you were a first time buyer and If you were planning to buy one for yourself would you take the plunge with Broadwell or would you rather go for Skylake ? What stand would you take ?
My advice would be to buy now. Now is an excellent time for a first time buyer to buy a rMBP. The only reason I don't buy one myself is because I already have a rMBP that I'm happy with. I will replace it when a new MBP will support an external 5K display at 60Hz (either Broadwell or Skylake).

If the CES rumors are true, does that mean 47w Broadwell will be out in time for Q1 15" mbp?
The CES rumors I'm hearing and reading only concern Broadwell-U parts. I'm expecting 15W and maybe 28W Broadwell CPUs to ship in quantity in Q1 2015, not 37W or 47W Broadwell parts.

If apple had put an 850M in the current 15" mbp, I wouldn't be fussing over this, but my impression is this will actually be consequential in futureproofing graphics.
Why do you think Apple will put a discrete GPU into a Broadwell MBP? Just because you want one? It doesn't make sense from Apple's perspective because Iris Pro 6200 is fast enough (reportedly faster than the 750M). With either Broadwell or Skylake, the last vestige of the discrete GPU will be dropped forever from the MBP line, just as the internal optical brick was dropped in 2012.
 
My advice would be to buy now. Now is an excellent time for a first time buyer to buy a rMBP. The only reason I don't buy one myself is because I already have a rMBP that I'm happy with. I will replace it when a new MBP will support an external 5K display at 60Hz (either Broadwell or Skylake).

No perhaps you didn't understand what I was asking you ! I definitely want to wait right now ! I am not buying a rMBP at the moment ! I don't want to ! I can wait, I mean I would like to wait for Broadwell or the next iteration ! My question to you is between Broadwell and Skylake should one take the plunge of buying a rMBP with Broadwell if he is a first time rMBP buyer or should he wait for Skylake ? Mind you I am not at all absolutely not in need or in hurry at the moment ! Then between Broadwell and Skylake which one would you recommend a first timer to buy ! Which also takes care of some future requirements Atleast for a couple of years !!
 
No perhaps you didn't understand what I was asking you ! I definitely want to wait right now ! I am not buying a rMBP at the moment ! I don't want to ! I can wait, I mean I would like to wait for Broadwell or the next iteration ! My question to you is between Broadwell and Skylake should one take the plunge of buying a rMBP with Broadwell if he is a first time rMBP buyer or should he wait for Skylake ? Mind you I am not at all absolutely not in need or in hurry at the moment ! Then between Broadwell and Skylake which one would you recommend a first timer to buy ! Which also takes care of some future requirements Atleast for a couple of years !!

Broadwell.
 
Broadwell.

Technology wise I think Broadwell would, should suffice my needs with plenty of miles. My only worry, fear, concern is what if with Skylake Apple completely redesigns, changes, the Body, Chasis of the rMBP making it extra more slim or change the screen display technology or something of that sort...now that would really hurt me more than not having Skylake !!

Do you think with Skylake the entire design (Chasis, weight, screen display) of the rMBP also might change ? Do you see that happening ?

IMHO the whole rMBP as a package ( purely talking from a body point of view) now stands at its most refined state, so I don't know what else can you change in the total body of rMBP ! But is the rMBP again in line for a big total overhaul in terms of body ? With Since Skylake would be new Architecture CPU which means smaller components on motherboard hence less space needed and hence again going size zero !!
 
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