Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread

[Questtt3]

Hey all, I've been using a 2.7GHz 16GB Mid 2012 15" rMBP for the last few years, and the computer's starting to show signs of a slow death. Sometimes, the screen goes black, and it takes about five minutes to get it out of its blackout phase. The rainbow beach ball seems to be more prevalent as well.

Just addressing this first point, this is very disturbing . . . Only a 2012 and you say its already failing?! Is this normal for MBPs? It would not be acceptable for me.

While I have always bought quality, higher-end PCs (simply bkz dependability is critical for me and I keep them for a long time) the hardware has always lasted me (laptops and desktops) for more than 7 years. In fact, it was almost always the newer OS's and programs that overpowered my older hardware that became my reason for buying a newer system (exception my 10 year old HD in my old desktop began to get loud . . . But even then did not actually go out).

Point is, what is a normal life expectancy for a MBP that is properly taken care of (not abused). I would definitely expect 5-6 years at bare minimum (recognizing that newer OS's, programs and hardware would have many moving on before--but bkz they WANTED to, not HAD to).

 

[mcarling]

Considering the potential upgrades that Broadwell will bring, do you think I should stick with the 2012 laptop until the next refresh, or get the current iteration?

If I were in your shoes, I would buy one now.

Just addressing this first point, this is very disturbing . . . Only a 2012 and you say its already failing?! Is this normal for MBPs?

Such early failure is only normal for MBPs with a discrete GPU. Fortunately, the era of discrete GPUs is coming to an end.

 

[augustya]

Apple need to wait until the 28W, 37W, and 48W Broadwell parts are shipping in large volumes. That should be summer 2015.

What does this 28W, 37W and 48W mean to an end user, as a first time buyer if I can get, should I aim, target to buy the 48W Broadwell rMBP ? Does the 48W mean it would be the most powerful broadwell machine out of the entire series i.e. 28W, 37W and 48W ? Would be the 48W the most preferred out of this entire series ?

I don't think Apple ever had such a "road map". Apple released updated Macs when Intel provided updated CPUs. Obviously, Intel keep Apple informed about their planned CPU releases. Trying to fit a pattern to the data after the fact is not a useful exercise.

So with Broadwell release in the Retina MacBook Pro that too in 15 Inch, will there be only one yearly Broadwell 2015 release ? Will there be no Early 2015, Mid-2015 and Late 2015 rMBP release pattern with Broadwell equipped rMBP 15 inches ?

 

[mcarling]

What does this 28W, 37W and 48W mean to an end user, as a first time buyer if I can get, should I aim, target to buy the 48W Broadwell rMBP ? Does the 48W mean it would be the most powerful broadwell machine out of the entire series i.e. 28W, 37W and 48W ? Would be the 48W the most preferred out of this entire series ?

The 13" MBPs use 28W parts. The 15" MBPs use 37W and 47W parts. Broadwell TDPs will probably be lower and battery life would increase a bit as a result.

So with Broadwell release in the Retina MacBook Pro that too in 15 Inch, will there be only one yearly 2015 release ? Will there be no Early 2015, Mid-2015 and Late 2015 rMBP release pattern with Broadwell equipped rMBP 15 inches ?

I expect only one MBP release in 2015, probably in the June to October timeframe.

 

[augustya]

The 13" MBPs use 28W parts. The 15" MBPs use 37W and 47W parts. Broadwell TDPs will probably be lower and battery life would increase a bit as a result.

So if it is just one Broadwell Release that Apple will have for Broadwell in 2015 will it be 37W or 47W ? And what is supposed to be better the higher the better or what ? Should one go for 37W or 47W?

expect only one MBP release in 2015, probably in the June to October timeframe.

Does that also mean there will be only one ever release for Broadwell and that would be in 2015 and there will be no further release ever of Broadwell after the first release of the Broadwell rMBP, Since Skylake would be waiting in the wings to be born in the rMBP.

 

[Macaman]

If I were in your shoes, I would buy one now.


Such early failure is only normal for MBPs with a discrete GPU. Fortunately, the era of discrete GPUs is coming to an end.

In my opinion it's still way too early to expect the dGPU to completely disappear from the 15 rMBP models.

The main reason behind the 2011 MBP dGPU failures, is really bad quality graphic chips from ATI themself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds

 

[SympathyRS]

In my opinion it's still way too early to expect the dGPU to completely disappear from the 15 rMBP models.

The main reason behind the 2011 MBP dGPU failures, is really bad quality graphic chips from ATI themself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds

I agree with you, the integrated solutions now are still not on-par with the dGPUs, and I believe that there are still needs for a dGPU solution.

 

[Macaman]

I agree with you, the integrated solutions now are still not on-par with the dGPUs, and I believe that there are still needs for a dGPU solution.

Yes exactly, if they atleast decide to put a GT 950m in the 2015 MBP I would be really happy. In my company basically 90% of the people use Imac's at the office and Macbook pro's "on the go". We are really happy with the desktops but still find the current iteration MBP:s on the graphically weaker side.

Since the 9xxm series graphics cards are significantly better in both performance and thermally(heat generation) it would be an excellent upgrade. Then add a Broadwell/Skylake CPU into the mix that in theory should run substantially cooler than the current haswell CPU:s, suddenly you realise that you have the perfect laptop:=)

 

[mcarling]

So if it is just one Broadwell Release that Apple will have for Broadwell in 2015 will it be 37W or 47W ? And what is supposed to be better the higher the better or what ? Should one go for 37W or 47W?

Which is better? A Ferrari or a Tesla?

Does that also mean there will be only one ever release for Broadwell and that would be in 2015 and there will be no further release ever of Broadwell after the first release of the Broadwell rMBP, Since Skylake would be waiting in the wings to be born in the rMBP.

Are you taking about Intel releasing Broadwell CPUs or Apple releasing Broadwell MBPs?

 

[Crobeccada]

Yes exactly, if they atleast decide to put a GT 950m in the 2015 MBP I would be really happy. In my company basically 90% of the people use Imac's at the office and Macbook pro's "on the go". We are really happy with the desktops but still find the current iteration MBP:s on the graphically weaker side

Since the 9xxm series graphics cards are significantly better in both performance and thermally(heat generation) it would be an excellent upgrade. Then add a Broadwell/Skylake CPU into the mix that in theory should run substantially cooler than the current haswell CPU:s, suddenly you realise that you have the perfect laptop:=)

I hope they will upgrade the gpu in an early 2015 model.. For me is the same problem as you for the rMBPs..

 

[augustya]

Which is better? A Ferrari or a Tesla?

I don't know mate you tell me

Does that also mean there will be only one ever release for Broadwell and that would be in 2015 and there will be no further release ever of Broadwell after the first release of the Broadwell rMBP, Since Skylake would be waiting in the wings to be born in the rMBP.

Are you taking about Intel releasing Broadwell CPUs or Apple releasing Broadwell MBPs?

Of course I am talking about Apple releasing Broadwell equipped rMBP 15 inch in 2015 !

 

[Macaman]

I hope they will upgrade the gpu in an early 2015 model.. For me is the same problem as you for the rMBPs..

Indeed. I personally see no reason for Apple to drop the dGPU until the iGPU:s are somewhat on par with the latest dGPUs availabe for laptops, it will most likely still be several years before we can expect that kind of performance from the iGPU:s.

There is definitely a big market for people that require dGPU, to drop it entirely next year would be a mistake.

 

[mcarling]

I am talking about Apple releasing Broadwell equipped rMBP 15 inch in 2015 !

I expect Apple to release Broadwell MBPs just once. The next MBP release after that will have Skylake CPUs.

I personally see no reason for Apple to drop the dGPU until the iGPU:s are somewhat on par with the latest dGPUs availabe for laptops, it will most likely still be several years before we can expect that kind of performance from the iGPU:s.

There are several reasons for Apple to drop the last vestige of the discrete GPU from the MacBook Pro line: cost is the main one, followed by reliability, battery life, and increased flexibility laying out the motherboard. The standard is not whether integrated GPUs are as fast as the latest discrete GPUs; the standard is whether they are fast enough. Since Apple have been offering MacBook Pro models without discrete GPUs for a few years already, Apple clearly think that integrated GPUs were already fast enough for many users a few years ago. Integrated GPUs are increasing in performance at a faster rate than discrete GPUs and Iris Pro 6200 may, in Apple's opinion, be fast enough to drop the discrete GPU. Certainly Iris Pro 6200 will blow away the 650M which was fast enough just over a year ago. From what I'm hearing, I will not be surprised if the Iris Pro 6200 is as fast as the 750M in the current top-of-the-line MacBook Pro.

There is definitely a big market for people that require dGPU, to drop it entirely next year would be a mistake.

The professional gaming market.

 

[augustya]

I expect Apple to release Broadwell MBPs just once. The next MBP release after that will have Skylake CPUs.

But should one aim for, try and get the 37W Broadwell rMBP or 47W ? Which one is supposedly better ?
And what are the chances the one Broadwell rMBP 15 inch that Apple would release would be that 37W or 47W ?

 

[mcarling]

But should one aim for, try and get the 37W Broadwell rMBP or 47W ? Which one is supposedly better ?

Neither is better. What do you care most about? Performance or battery life?

 

[Macaman]

I expect Apple to release Broadwell MBPs just once. The next MBP release after that will have Skylake CPUs.


There are several reasons for Apple to drop the last vestige of the discrete GPU from the MacBook Pro line: cost is the main one, followed by reliability, battery life, and increased flexibility laying out the motherboard. The standard is not whether integrated GPUs are as fast as the latest discrete GPUs; the standard is whether they are fast enough. Since Apple have been offering MacBook Pro models without discrete GPUs for a few years already, Apple clearly think that integrated GPUs were already fast enough for many users a few years ago. Integrated GPUs are increasing in performance at a faster rate than discrete GPUs and Iris Pro 6200 may, in Apple's opinion, be fast enough to drop the discrete GPU. Certainly Iris Pro 6200 will blow away the 650M which was fast enough just over a year ago. From what I'm hearing, I will not be surprised if the Iris Pro 6200 is as fast as the 750M in the current top-of-the-line MacBook Pro.

Well I for one would be very surprised if Apple drop the dGPU as early as next year. Even if the iris 6200 is "enough" to be on pair with the GT 750 I highly doubt that they will let their high end 15 rMBP spec be two generations behind in graphical power compared to the 900m series.

There is one thing about Apple, they are here to do business and one of the biggest diffrences today between the low end and high end 15 spec is the dGPU. I am not saying they wont drop it, but its still a few years too early to actually do it.

The professional gaming market.

I am only a casual gamer myself. But its in my belief that if Apple were to better optimize OSX overall for gaming and keep the dGPU in their laptops for a few years more, that itself would most certainly earn them more customers. The gaming market today is huge and if Apple could get a fraction of that market to use OSX instead of Windows it would be really, really good business

 

[mcarling]

Well I for one would be very surprised if Apple drop the dGPU as early as next year. Even if the iris 6200 is "enough" to be on pair with the GT 750 I highly doubt that they will let their high end 15 rMBP spec be two generations behind in graphical power compared to the 900m series.

There is one thing about Apple, they are here to do business and one of the biggest diffrences today between the low end and high end 15 spec is the dGPU. I am not saying they wont drop it, but its still a few years too early to actually do it.

My prediction remains as it has been for a few years: that the last MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU will be either Haswell or Broadwell. I'm confident but not certain that all the Skylake MacBook Pro models will be free of discrete GPUs.

I am only a casual gamer myself. But its in my belief that if Apple were to better optimize OSX overall for gaming and keep the dGPU in their laptops for a few years more, that itself would most certainly earn them more customers. The gaming market today is huge and if Apple could get a fraction of that market to use OSX instead of Windows it would be really, really good business

I believe that if Apple decide to go after the gaming market that it will be with the Apple TV not the MacBook Pro.

 

[augustya]

Neither is better. What do you care most about? Performance or battery life?

Uh ?? What do you mean by neither is better ? One has to take a pick right ??

Ofcourse I care or performance and battery both together in one package !! and that is why the whole goddamn wait for Broadwell equipped rMBP !!

 

[Macaman]

My prediction remains as it has been for a few years: that the last MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU will be either Haswell or Broadwell. I'm confident but not certain that all the Skylake MacBook Pro models will be free of discrete GPUs.



I believe that if Apple decide to go after the gaming market that it will be with the Apple TV not the MacBook Pro.

If they actually do decide to drop the dGPU with the release of Broadwell I will be the first to acknowledge that I was wrong. But I find it more likely that they keep the dGPU in the higher end model, atleast until Skylake.

When Skylake arrives the dGPU could be in danger, but at the same time, why would Apple want to make their notebooks so graphically inferior to the competition? At the time of Skylakes arrival in notebooks, Nvidias new GPU architecture Pascal should be hitting other high end laptops on the market aswell.

Pascal is said to be another substantial leap in mobile GPU performance and it makes little sense for Apple to be that much behind others in the GPU department, especially considering the pricepoint of their high end laptops.

When i say gaming I mostly point at the shortcomings in OSX that makes gaming hard.
OSX has always been behind in graphical optimization. 90% of the current games that actually exists on mac still sadly runs smoother in Windows. There is certainly much that Apple could change in the API that improves that experience alot.

 

[mcarling]

Uh ?? What do you mean by neither is better ? One has to take a pick right ??

Obviously, a 37W part uses less electricity than a 47W part so, obviously, battery life will be better with a 37W CPU than with a 47W CPU. The 47W CPUs are faster than the 37W CPUs. Frankly, I think both performance and battery life are already excellent with the current Haswell MacBook Pro.

Of course I care or performance and battery both together in one package !! and that is why the whole goddamn wait for Broadwell equipped rMBP !!

I still believe that, based on everything you've written in this thread, you would be better served by buying now.

 

[augustya]

I still believe that, based on everything you've written in this thread, you would be better served by buying now.

I have a different take on this ! I can discuss it with you on PM if you are ok, i don't wanna hijack this thread to my own personal queries and solutions

 

[psychedelia]

Waiting for Broadwell MBP Thread

Obviously, a 37W part uses less electricity than a 47W part so, obviously, battery life will be better with a 37W CPU than with a 47W CPU. The 47W CPUs are faster than the 37W CPUs. Frankly, I think both performance and battery life are already excellent with the current Haswell MacBook Pro.





I still believe that, based on everything you've written in this thread, you would be better served by buying now.

As long as the Retina displays are as flawed as they currently are (with yellow tinting, uneven brightness, etc.), I would never buy now - there are several threads about this problem. But if speed and performance is your only concern, and you really need a new laptop, it would probably be OK to buy now.

 

[catan]

I think there will always be a place for the dGPU on the 15", for the mobile power users. But the desktop at home + ultraportable seems to be the direction most people, gamers especially, are taking.

 

[Macaman]

As Macs has gotten more and more popular among people there is many new Mac users migrating from Windows to Mac. I personally think that mac OSX in most cases are superior to Windows and that should be enough.

But seeing how the gaming market has exploaded in recent years it would benefit Apple greatly to improve OSX in that area aswell. I'm not saying Macs should become full fledged gaming machines, I am saying they should optimize OSX so that its atleast on par with Windows in terms of gaming performance.

Apple could also make it easier for game developers to port games to mac and perhaps even create better tools for that purpose.
Not only would this finally remove the bad "you cant play games on mac" reputation OSX has, this would also make it a "no brainer" for younger people that are hesitating changing to Macs because they are afraid that they cant play games decently.

For that reason, keeping the dGPU could be a smart choice if Apple do solve the problems in OSX.
Even if MBP:s are not directly intended to be gaming machines, they could indirectly get gamers attention.
Seeing that the vast majority of the slimmer gaming machines today, like the MSI GS60, GS70, Razer blade, Gigabyte P35, etc all falls within the same price segment as the higher end Macs, then its not entirely without logic to get to this conclusion.

The only thing that hold those customers back from MAC being a serious consideration, is the lack of gaming optimization and compatibility in OSX. A future removal of the dGPU would most definitive destroy MBP viability in this potential market.

 

[augustya]

I still believe that, based on everything you've written in this thread, you would be better served by buying now.

But if speed and performance is your only concern, and you really need a new laptop, it would probably be OK to buy now.

A lot of you guys have suggested me why dont I buy a rMBP right now so I have decided to go ahead and explain you guys why I dont wanna buy it right now.

Firstly I am not in the U.S and buying a rMBP is a huge investment for me. Unlike in the U.S where if you own a Gadget that too a Apple Product the resale value is pretty good, so one can just buy the current Haswell rMBP now and sell it once the new Broadwell Machines come in the Market and your current Haswell Machine might fetch you some reasonable returns. That is not the case here, So what even if it is Apple, If I were to buy now a Haswell rMBP just to sell it when Broadwell comes, it will fetch me peanuts and mark my words peanuts. Would atleast be a $1500 USD Depreciation for me ! That is F***in Huge !! So whenever I have to buy a rMBP I plan to use it atleast for 4-5 Years a minimum. I cannot (Doesn't work out cost effective in this part of the world) Where There is no real Apple Cult Following !! I cannot just use it now and sell it later, Nope can break you financially.

Second I am not in any real Hurry, I right now use a Windows Machine, which kind of does the job for me, But I wanna sooner or later migrate to the Mac Environment, having said that as of now it is an intention, I am not sitting on a Burning Furnace to do it ASAP !

Third is since I wanna use the rMBP for atleast a period of 4-5 year I wanna buy the most latest Tech Machine available at that point of time, to future proof myself (Again I know one cant) but how much and whatever I can ! To be able to cope with the technological advancements for the coming 4-5 years.

So what makes most important to me in that sense, Having a Bigger Space SSD OR RAM, NO !! what matters to me is, the Battery and GPU Performance ! That would matter/hurt me the most. I know, all of you guys would say even the current Iris Pro rMBP is good enough for a normal, layman use. But Like I said I plan to use the rMBP that I buy for 4-5 years so I would as much as I can, try and buy the...the...most latest, technologically advanced machine available in the Market !! And Having burnt my fingers of having a Sony Vaio Laptop which had a dedicated GPU which failed (Though After 5 Years) and by failing also shot dead my entire machine. I dont wanna buy a Dedicated GPU ever in my life ! Never Ever ! And so I would look to buy a Integrated GPU Machine which is the most latest, most recent. I have had umpteen number of discussion with so called Tech Gurus and Wizrads who have maintained this point, if you want to use your rMBP for 4-5 years as you say, never...never...ever..go for a dedicated GPU Machine !! Period !! You will Thank yourself !! And a lot of Gurus have also told me even right now the Iris Pro IGPU performance in the rMBP has taken the IGPU in rMBP to all new fantastic level ! and the birth of Broadwell will make it one heck of lean, mean F***in Machine It will go there and join a different league in terms of what out of the world Tasks can a IGPU Machine start doing ! Hence even though it is a difficult and very agonizing wait. I am forced to wait. Damn You Intel ! I hate You for making me Wait !!