Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[KUguardgrl13]

I don't even remember how Haswell is better than Ivy Bridge anymore.

Either is better than Penryn . I just don't want lag or the other issues that the current models have had. With my luck I would get them. How many mid-2009 owners burn through SATA cables like Cookie Monster with a cookie jar?

 

[mcarling]

It is all relative. Sure, it's not going to be as "big" as the Retina MBP introduction, but there is a reason this thread is over 8,000 posts.

I view it as a big update, otherwise I would have purchased 5 months ago. Maybe not big in the way that you mentioned, but worthwhile none-the-less.

I see Mac updates falling into three categories:
- Major: for example, the unibody and Retina updates
- Annual: main feature is the new CPU
- Minor: such as February 2013

I don't even remember how Haswell is better than Ivy Bridge anymore.

The main improvements of Haswell over Ivy Bridge are improved integrated graphics and reduced power consumption / heat dissipation.

 

[PDFierro]

I see Mac updates falling into three categories:
- Major: for example, the unibody and Retina updates
- Annual: main feature is the new CPU
- Minor: such as February 2013


The main improvements of Haswell over Ivy Bridge are improved integrated graphics and reduced power consumption / heat dissipation.

Well like I said, an annual update can still be a big update. It all depends on what you are looking for.

 

[OneCharmingQuar]

Am I the only one who's not optimistic about large battery life gains in the Haswell quad-core laptops? Sure, ULV devices like the Surface Pro 2 and 2013 Macbook Airs have seen huge gains, but the quad core Haswell laptops I've seen still have poor battery life. This Schenker, for instance, only gets 4 hours and 17 minutes of light usage from a 53 Wh battery. This isn't bad for a quad-core device, but it's not what I had hoped for from Haswell.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Schenker-S413-Clevo-W740SU-Notebook.98313.0.html

 

[mcarling]

Well like I said, an annual update can still be a big update. It all depends on what you are looking for.

Would you call the following a "big" update?
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100 in the 13" and Iris Pro 5200 in the 15" models)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

Am I the only one who's not optimistic about large battery life gains in the Haswell quad-core laptops? Sure, ULV devices like the Surface Pro 2 and 2013 Macbook Airs have seen huge gains, but the quad core Haswell laptops I've seen still have poor battery life. This Schenker, for instance, only gets 4 hours and 17 minutes of light usage from a 53 Wh battery. This isn't bad for a quad-core device, but it's not what I had hoped for from Haswell.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Schenker-S413-Clevo-W740SU-Notebook.98313.0.html

I think we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[GSPice]

I expect:
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100 in the 13" and Iris Pro 5200 in the 15" models)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

Some other improvements are possible but seem unlikely:
- Thunderbolt 2
- USB 3.1
- different display (maybe IGZO)
- different form factor (possibly a 17" model)

My expectation:
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100, Iris Pro 5200, and GT 750M w/ 2GB)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

My drunken stupor wish list:
-GTX 760M w/2GB (seeing how this exists)
-Thunderbolt 2
-IGZO
-Free retina iPad mini w/purchase of rMBP

 

[KUguardgrl13]

My expectation:
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100, Iris Pro 5200, and GT 750M w/ 2GB)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

My drunken stupor wish list:
-GTX 760M w/2GB (seeing how this exists)
-Thunderbolt 2
-IGZO
-Free retina iPad mini w/purchase of rMBP

Free iPod Classic so I can have a backup . Wishful thinking, I know. An iPad mini would be awesome too though!

 

[Wuiffi]

My expectation:
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100, Iris Pro 5200, and GT 750M w/ 2GB)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

My drunken stupor wish list:
-GTX 760M w/2GB (seeing how this exists)
-Thunderbolt 2
-IGZO
-Free retina iPad mini w/purchase of rMBP

yeah, something like that. And a free rocket launcher

 

[Rick-ITA]

I see Mac updates falling into three categories:
- Major: for example, the unibody and Retina updates
- Annual: main feature is the new CPU
- Minor: such as February 2013

I think you must differentiate annual updates because moving from sandy bridge to ivy bridge ("tock") is less innovative than moving from ivy bridge to haswell ("tick"). A tock is simply a speed bump, an evolution of previous generation without a drastic innovation. A tick is revolutionary in some feature (in this year, iGPU and battery life).

I would categorize mac updates in the following 4 categories:
- Major (Body and CPU): unibody or retina
- Major (CPU): new generation CPUs with innovative features (the "tick")
- Minor (CPU): new generation CPUs without innovative features (the "tock")
- Simple spec-bump: same generation CPU, slightly faster models

Major (Body and CPU) happens every 4 years.
Major (CPU only) happens every two years.
Minor (CPU) and spec-bump alternates every 8 months.

 

[PDFierro]

Would you call the following a "big" update?
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100 in the 13" and Iris Pro 5200 in the 15" models)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD


I think we'll just have to wait and see.

Yup, I would. It's definitely the biggest generation-to-generation leap for battery life in terms of processors go.

I'm after the 13-inch model, anyway.

 

[johnnylarue]

Am I the only one who's not optimistic about large battery life gains in the Haswell quad-core laptops? Sure, ULV devices like the Surface Pro 2 and 2013 Macbook Airs have seen huge gains, but the quad core Haswell laptops I've seen still have poor battery life. This Schenker, for instance, only gets 4 hours and 17 minutes of light usage from a 53 Wh battery. This isn't bad for a quad-core device, but it's not what I had hoped for from Haswell.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Schenker-S413-Clevo-W740SU-Notebook.98313.0.html

While I'm not expecting the MBA's ridiculous battery life from the Haswell MBPr, I think the Mavericks Factor might give the new laptops a noticeable boost.

At the very least, considering the current MBPr already has better battery life than the Schenker you linked to, it's hard to believe Apple would approve a downgrade in that department.

 

[GSPice]

Either is better than Penryn . I just don't want lag or the other issues that the current models have had. With my luck I would get them. How many mid-2009 owners burn through SATA cables like Cookie Monster with a cookie jar?

Totally. My 2009 iMac feels like a tortoise.

 

[OneCharmingQuar]

While I'm not expecting the MBA's ridiculous battery life from the Haswell MBPr, I think the Mavericks Factor might give the new laptops a noticeable boost.

At the very least, considering the current MBPr already has better battery life than the Schenker you linked to, it's hard to believe Apple would approve a downgrade in that department.

The rMBP also has a much bigger battery. I have some hope for improvements with Mavericks, but the biggest thing seems to be the pausing. This will make it easier to run multiple light applications with long battery life, but I don't see it improving the maximum battery life. Timer coalescing already exists on Windows 7 and 8 without any particularly dramatic effect.

 

[The Leafs Fan]

I suppose "big" is relative. I expect the Haswell update to be bigger than the February 2013 update. I would be surprised if the Haswell MBP update is in any way more significant than a typical annual update -- with the solitary probable exception of dropping the cMBP. We just had a major MBP update last year with the introduction of the Retina models. I cannot remember Apple ever launching a major update to any line of Macs two years in a row.

I expect:
- Haswell CPUs (with Iris 5100 in the 13" and Iris Pro 5200 in the 15" models)
- 802.11ac Wifi
- 1080p FaceTime camera
- PCIe SSD

Some other improvements are possible but seem unlikely:
- Thunderbolt 2
- USB 3.1
- different display (maybe IGZO)
- different form factor (possibly a 17" model)

Which of those unlikely but still possible improvements do you expect for next year's refresh?

 

[Mr MM]

given the iMac launch and what apple usually uses is the dgpu in the iMac 21'' we can say that the hopes for the 760m and higher or amd flavours are gone for good

 

[mcarling]

I think you must differentiate annual updates because moving from sandy bridge to ivy bridge ("tock") is less innovative than moving from ivy bridge to haswell ("tick"). A tock is simply a speed bump, an evolution of previous generation without a drastic innovation. A tick is revolutionary in some feature (in this year, iGPU and battery life).

No, I do not see the microarchitecture cycles as more innovative than the process shrink cycles. I used to work at Intel writing circuit simulation software for the CPU designers, so I may have a biased perspective. The process shrink cycles are where we get to put more transistors into each CPU and that allows for more cores, bigger cache sizes, more execution units, etc. In my biased view, that's more important than the microarchitecture revisions.

Major (Body and CPU) happens every 4 years.

Not necessarily. Three years and five years seem to be just about as common as four years.

Minor (CPU) and spec-bump alternates every 8 months.

No, minor upgrades occur as required. There is no roadmap.

Which of those unlikely but still possible improvements do you expect for next year's refresh?

If they don't happen with the Haswell release, then I guess the likelihood for Broadwell would be:
Thunderbolt 2: highly likely
16GB BTO option for 13" rMBP: highly likely
Quad-core 13" rMBP: likely
USB 3.1: possible
IGZO: possible
different resolution: unlikely
17" rMBP: possible
other form factor change: unlikely

 

[msvadi]

Any chance they will resurrect the 17" line? I need a laptop for exclusive home use, and I prefer it to be bigger than smaller.

 

[GSPice]

given the iMac launch and what apple usually uses is the dgpu in the iMac 21'' we can say that the hopes for the 760m and higher or amd flavours are gone for good

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Oh well, we'll still have to see if a 750 will crush the iGPU-only speculation.

 

[B...]

I think you must differentiate annual updates because moving from sandy bridge to ivy bridge ("tock") is less innovative than moving from ivy bridge to haswell ("tick"). A tock is simply a speed bump, an evolution of previous generation without a drastic innovation. A tick is revolutionary in some feature (in this year, iGPU and battery life).

I would categorize mac updates in the following 4 categories:
- Major (Body and CPU): unibody or retina
- Major (CPU): new generation CPUs with innovative features (the "tick")
- Minor (CPU): new generation CPUs without innovative features (the "tock")
- Simple spec-bump: same generation CPU, slightly faster models

Major (Body and CPU) happens every 4 years.
Major (CPU only) happens every two years.
Minor (CPU) and spec-bump alternates every 8 months.

Haswell is a tock, not a tick. You confused tick with tock.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/silicon-innovations/intel-tick-tock-model-general.html

Sandy (tock)
Ivy (tick)
Haswell (tock)
Broadwell (tick)
Skylake (tock)
Skymont (tick)

 

[Driz]

If there is a igpu version of the 15" version, would it get a different case as opposed to the dgpu version of the 15"?

In the past apple has left the case unchanged regardless of the upgrades in the same model, but with freeing up the room the dgpu takes up, it would be a shame not to use that room or make the 15" igpu thinner.

 

[mcarling]

Any chance they will resurrect the 17" line?

The main reason why Apple stopped producing 17" MBPs was the cost (more than a year ago) of 17" Retina displays (due to poor yields). The yields have improved and costs have dropped. Whether or not costs have dropped enough to introduce a 17" rMBP is unclear. Apple will be aware that the lack of availability over the last year will have resulted in some pent-up demand in addition to the usual ongoing demand. If I were Apple, I would be thinking about introducing a 17" rMBP in February 2014, with features not found in the 15" model, such as a 32GB option and two PCIe SSD slots.

If there is a igpu version of the 15" version, would it get a different case as opposed to the dgpu version of the 15"?

I would be very surprised if there will be two form factors for the Haswell 15" rMBP. It seems to me that some people are way too caught up in the discrete versus integrated GPU question. I think, for example, the question of whether a 16GB BTO option for the 13" rMBP will be introduced with Haswell or Broadwell will be important for far more users.

 

[AaronM5670]

Any chance they will resurrect the 17" line? I need a laptop for exclusive home use, and I prefer it to be bigger than smaller.

Why not get an iMac or a desktop Mac then? If you just want to use it at home it'd be much better value for money!

 

[mcarling]

Why not get an iMac or a desktop Mac then? If you just want to use it at home it'd be much better value for money!

That depends on where one wants to use it at home. I often use a 15" MBP sitting on the sofa. I imagine one could do the same with a 17" MBP, but I wouldn't try it with an iMac.

 

[powerslave12r]

Grab your bucket of salt.

According to someone over on another laptop forum, when inquiring about the Dell M3800, this is what the Dell rep supposedly told them.

"Sorry but right now we still haven't got the motherboard and chipset orders from Intel so we can offer this model line, in fact all 4th gen models we currently carry are offered as a fixed build due to shortage of parts.
latest word from Intel is they will fulfill all backlog orders by the 1st or 2nd week of October, this is actually not just us here at Dell but other manufacturers as well."

This combined with the fact that a lot of Haswell laptops are actually 'backordered' across multiple brands, I'm fairly certain the delay is partially, if not completely, Intel's "fault."

Again, bucket of salt and all that.

 

[zOlid]

Grab your bucket of salt.

According to someone over on another laptop forum, when inquiring about the Dell M3800, this is what the Dell rep supposedly told them.


This combined with the fact that a lot of Haswell laptops are actually 'backordered' across multiple brands, I'm fairly certain the delay is partially, if not completely, Intel's "fault."

Again, bucket of salt and all that.

Or maybe just maybe, Apple is getting priority on the Haswell cpus and their demand creates a shortage for everyone else
*Refuses to believe anything else*