Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

[PDFierro]

If you really need portability (that means carry around your rMBP every day) the 13" is your choice.
If you instead plan to use your notebook mostly at home, then the 15" has obviously a better screen (it's really amazing to look at a 15" rMBP).

If for any reason you need extremely high graphic performances because, for example, you work daily with 3D modelling, then you must buy the 15" with dGPU (that will not probably be available in the base 15" but only as a BTO option) regardless of portability.

If money are important, the 13" is way cheaper.

If you have or want to buy a Thunderbolt display (a new 4k retina version will probably be announced next tuesday or, if not, will come out very soon) again go for the 13" given it's better portability and the fact that you will use the big screen at home.

Out of some very specific needs (that basically can be summarized with "lack of dGPU) I don't think that differences in CPUs between 13" and 15" are so relevant for almost all users. However if you need to use many (x>2) virtual machines and/or more than 3 CPU-intensive programs at the same time, you will enjoy to have 8 virtual core instead of 4; so go for quad-core in the 15".

I hope this helps you. In my opinion the 15" must be considered to be the real professional machine, while the 13" is something in between a purely consumer device (the Air) and a real Pro one. For professional I mean a laptop that can be productively used by people who works with programs that requires huge graphic (15" dGPU only) and CPU raw power. Examples are 3D modelling, videomaker, professional photographer that elaborate say 100+ raw files every day, people who works with big database etc.. Of course nothing forbid you to buy a 15" rMBP just for facebook (to enjoy its screen) but you will be more than fine also with the 13".

I think anybody who is undecided between the two screen sizes should just go into the Apple store and do some comparing. That's what I did. It's really not a hard decision.

But you summed everything up nicely. I just think the size of the 15 is way too big, where as the 13-inch is perfect.

 

[OneCharmingQuar]

I tried to have a look at Dell's website but I was not able to find the new XPS-15, nor the new XPS-13.
Can someone just link it?

I don't think the Haswell XPS 13 comes out until November, but here is the XPS 15 site:
http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15-953...c=AF&cid=5676&lid=137598&acd=2402178958117280

 

[iKrivetko]

Does anyone have a good suggestion for which CPU Apple could use if they decide to ditch the dGPU and go 5200 only?

Quite a silly question, since the 5200 is an intergral part of the cpus it ships with, namely:
4750
4850
4950
4960

 

[Manic Mouse]

what would allow for longer battery life on average?

Iris Pro 5200 or HD 4600 + dGPU (assuming you can use gfxcardstatus & disable dGPU to increase battery life)?

Would it be the HD 4600 + dGPU combo (with dGPU disabled)? Or would it be the Iris 5200? Or would they be about equivalent?

They would have identical battery life (unless you were doing heavy GPU lifting on battery which nobody does) which is why it makes zero sense to go for Iris when you have the TDP to handle a dGPU (as the 15" does). It isn't cheaper, you won't get better battery life, but you will get worse GPU performance when you need it. You also get a worse CPU and it eats 1-2Gb of your system RAM.

I don't think many of the people clammering for Iris in the 15" understand that ALL intel CPUs have an iGPU.

It's noteworthy that the ONLY iMac that got iris was the one that showed a performance increase (the one with the 640m). The only MBP that would show an increase in performance with the Iris, the only one that would benefit at all, is the 13".

I don't understand why anyone would want worse CPU performance, worse GPU performance and less useable RAM on the 15" MBP without any benefit (no, you won't get better battery life). The iris brigade sure are a nutty bunch.

 

[OneCharmingQuar]

Quite a silly question, since the 5200 is an intergral part of the cpus it ships with, namely:
4750
4850
4950
4960

Fair enough. I didn't look too deeply into it at Intel's site since there were so many CPUs listed. Turns out some of them were embedded systems and one was a full desktop CPU.

Anyway, the 4750 ranks lower in CPU MARK than the CPU in the Dell.

 

[Rick-ITA]

As for Haswell CPU, Wiki is extremely well done.

I really cannot understand why someone should buy a Dell XPS-15 when, for the same price can get a far superior rMBP.
The same for Dell XPS-13.

 

[Livewings]

I don't understand why anyone would want worse CPU performance, worse GPU performance and less useable RAM on the 15" MBP without any benefit (no, you won't get better battery life). The iris brigade sure are a nutty bunch.

Finally someone speaking straight out of my mouth.
It doesn't make sense to have Iris Pro alone.

 

[Vanilla35]

I think anybody who is undecided between the two screen sizes should just go into the Apple store and do some comparing. That's what I did. It's really not a hard decision.

But you summed everything up nicely. I just think the size of the 15 is way too big, where as the 13-inch is perfect.

Lol. Definitely to each his own. I thought the 13" is too small, and I don't use my computer for anything except browsing the web and casual gaming.

 

[john123]

I appreciate your argumentative nature, but it is comparable. They are new SKU's. There are new components involved. Just because it does not have a new form factor, or overhaul design change elements does not mean they have sufficient inventory at launch. None of us know what the components will be, or what their supply levels are. These new systems have been held up from release (in my opinion) for some reason, and perhaps that component, if true, is constrained. I hope there is no issue, but to imply that inventory will be available everywhere because the chassis is the same is....well.....

Sorry, but no. You've misinterpreted some of what I stated, and your logic is actually inverted.

Last year, the launch of the Retina MBP occurred a pre-defined, annual event. The pre-announcement put an artificial constraint on Apple—i.e., not having the luxury of releasing when they had sufficient supply. For this reason, there were weeks of pre-orders before the first unit shipped, creating a backlog. This year, we're talking about a release without any arbitrary time constraints. There's a reason it's now October, well over a year after last year's release (the February speed bump really doesn't count), and we're waiting. It would be asinine to pick a release date that then still entails a significant supply crunch.

That's the supply and timing side. On the demand side, that's where the form factor matters. Initial demand for new form factors is almost always significant, due to the surge induced by early adopters/fanboys. Last year's was especially big, since the form factor brought with it a significant new feature as well (i.e., the Retina displays). That's not going to happen this year. We're talking about models that will improve battery life and possibly bring some incremental improvements that may appeal to a sub-set of users. Given how poor Apple's record has been with secrecy in recent years, it would be shocking if there were some new ground-breaking feature coming that hasn't leaked out.

The most likely explanation for the delay is that Apple's been waiting on significant enough supplies of any parts that were constrained. There have been plenty of rumors on the Intel side and the special binning, or who knows what. But what you suggest—that Apple would voluntarily pick a release date that then has a significant supply crunch, especially after being so far behind a "reasonable" release schedule—is fairly silly.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I don't think the Haswell XPS 13 comes out until November, but here is the XPS 15 site:
http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15-953...c=AF&cid=5676&lid=137598&acd=2402178958117280

Granted, it's been a while since I've had Dells but tell me... do they still issue a can of WD-40 for the creaky hinges? Yes, the specs look nice but they always do.

I'm far from being an Apple fanboy and couldn't care less about OSX vs. Windows because I can get both to do what I need. But casual tinkering with all the PC stuff at the local Best Buy tells me these people have yet to really "get it" when it comes to build quality. Ironically, the Surface Pro is the only thing that comes close IMO but that's another animal altogether.

It's going to take a major "wow factor" to get me out of Apple's grasp and so far I haven't seen it. I'll gladly fork over the extra $500-$700 just to keep getting the same build quality. Four MacBooks in the family now ranging from 2007-2012 and all look and function like new. My annual Dell, HP, Toshiba, Acer replacements were killing me before this.

And to keep this on-topic: I hear the Haswell chips will be coming in 4 colors.

 

[PDFierro]

Lol. Definitely to each his own. I thought the 13" is too small, and I don't use my computer for anything except browsing the web and casual gaming.

That's why I suggested someone undecided should take a look for themselves. I wasn't declaring that it's a one-size-fits-all thing.

 

[john123]

I don't understand why anyone would want worse CPU performance, worse GPU performance and less useable RAM on the 15" MBP without any benefit (no, you won't get better battery life). The iris brigade sure are a nutty bunch.

For starters, it's not worse CPU performance. If you look at the most likely models for release with Iris Pro and compare the CPU performance for existing benchmarks, you'll notice that despite the reduction in the clock speed number, the overall benchmark performance is about the same.

As for the other parts, the battery life will be better than the previous generation, and that's the critical comparison from a marketing perspective—not versus some nebulous "it could have been..." hypothetical model.

I don't think most people, myself included, prefer Iris as much as it is that they just don't care that much, and recognize this is where things are headed. Sure, I'd prefer the HD4600 + 760M/765M, but I know I'm not going to get it, and I recognize the benefits of Haswell over my current rMBP 15".

 

[Vanilla35]

It's noteworthy that the ONLY iMac that got iris was the one that showed a performance increase (the one with the 640m). The only MBP that would show an increase in performance with the Iris, the only one that would benefit at all, is the 13".

Ah very good point. I'd completely forgotten that the old iMac had the 640M, not the 650M. It definitely wouldn't make sense for them to replace the 650M with Iris Pro for the rMBP then, if they thought it was only a worthy upgrade from the 640M.

The iris brigade sure are a nutty bunch.

Aahah, I'm with ya

 

[Krazy Bill]

Lol. Definitely to each his own. I thought the 13" is too small, and I don't use my computer for anything except browsing the web and casual gaming.

Not me. Love the 13" form factor. Years ago debated on the 15" but just took the savings and bought a 27" external monitor for when I'm chained to the desk.

That said, I've used the MS Surface Pro and 10" is just too damned small out in the field. (iPads don't count for me because I actually need to get something done).

 

[FrozenDarkness]

what i'm really shocked and bother by is the fact that the 13" still only has a 1280x800 "retina" resolution while macbook air has 1440x900.

what the hell right?

 

[iherm]

If you purchase through Member Purchase Program, then add the $50 off coupon, total price comes to $2159.99 for the maxed out Dell XPS 15...

UGH. If only apple had specs/ pricing info released... would make this wait easier!!!!!!!

Ship date currently 11 Nov on the XPS. Figure that won't change much if I wait until Tuesday to see what the MBP is bringing to the table.

 

[Livewings]

what i'm really shocked and bother by is the fact that the 13" still only has a 1280x800 "retina" resolution while macbook air has 1440x900.

what the hell right?

hell yeah. 2880x1800 is minimum.

 

[Jacquesass]

Nothing much, just a never ending fight about graphics, SSDs, RAM and a release date.

Wait - we didn't figure all of these out already?

 

[Scott7975]

Think of all the people who have never owned an Apple product and plan to start with this Haswell refresh! It is the biggest news!

Then again, they might just get a Dell instead of the update turns out to be more underwhelming than the XPS 15.

I would be one of those people. Have been using PCs since Packard Bell 486 25 mhz. Its time to upgrade my laptop and I really don't like windows 8. I also think the MacBook Pros have the nicest design on the market.

My plan is to get a new MBP and dual boot with windows 7. I need to run visual studio and some other windows software for college.

I don't want to buy one with a new model and haswell coming out so soon. I will say that if it doesn't come out by November then Im going to be forced to buy a PC again. I so hope they announce it Tues. This will be my first Apple since Apple IIe.

On a side note, and I know I should just make a new thread for this, but can anyone point me to some websites for some OS tips and tricks? I have never used the Mac OS before. Also wouldn't mind some must have APPs or hardware suggestions.

Thanks

 

[mneblett]

I hear the Haswell chips will be coming in 4 colors.

Best.Post.Today.

 

[PDFierro]

what i'm really shocked and bother by is the fact that the 13" still only has a 1280x800 "retina" resolution while macbook air has 1440x900.

what the hell right?

Well even the cMBP had 1280x800, but the 13-inch rMBP definitely needs to get a step up to 1440x900.

Otherwise, I prefer the 13 in every aspect. And it's not just the screen size that matters when deciding.

 

[cs02rm0]

If you have or want to buy a Thunderbolt display (a new 4k retina version will probably be announced next tuesday or, if not, will come out very soon) again go for the 13" given it's better portability and the fact that you will use the big screen at home.

Dear God, I hope they bring one out on Tuesday, I've been waiting longer for this than Haswell.

Given the prices on Apple's monitors relative to their competition from Dell and Asus I don't even want to imagine how expensive a 4k display from Apple would be.

Meh, don't really care, it'll be thoroughly worth it to me for work so I'll put it on the business, I can't be alone there by some stretch. That said, the rate at which prices on them seem to be dropping and given how long Apple tend to hold their prices steady, I wonder if it'd really be that much.

 

[Vanilla35]

Granted, it's been a while since I've had Dells but tell me... do they still issue a can of WD-40 for the creaky hinges? Yes, the specs look nice but they always do.

I'm far from being an Apple fanboy and couldn't care less about OSX vs. Windows because I can get both to do what I need. But casual tinkering with all the PC stuff at the local Best Buy tells me these people have yet to really "get it" when it comes to build quality. Ironically, the Surface Pro is the only thing that comes close IMO but that's another animal altogether.

It's going to take a major "wow factor" to get me out of Apple's grasp and so far I haven't seen it. I'll gladly fork over the extra $500-$700 just to keep getting the same build quality. Four MacBooks in the family now ranging from 2007-2012 and all look and function like new. My annual Dell, HP, Toshiba, Acer replacements were killing me before this.

And to keep this on-topic: I hear the Haswell chips will be coming in 4 colors.

These are my thoughts as well, 100%. I'm no apple fan boy either (and I will take many shots at those who are) but I demand quality.

what i'm really shocked and bother by is the fact that the 13" still only has a 1280x800 "retina" resolution while macbook air has 1440x900.

what the hell right?

Yeah my current laptop is ~1400x800 and the 1280 looked a wee bit cramped. If it was MBA resolution and 14" it would definitely be the the optimal size for me. But that wouldn't allow two differentiating products, so it's obvious intent there.

 

[Eidorian]

Well even the cMBP had 1280x800, but the 13-inch rMBP definitely needs to get a step up to 1440x900.

Otherwise, I prefer the 13 in every aspect. And it's not just the screen size that matters when deciding.

I would like to see 1280 x 800 disappear.

Granted, it's been a while since I've had Dells but tell me... do they still issue a can of WD-40 for the creaky hinges? Yes, the specs look nice but they always do.

I would wait for a review but imagine my shock when shaking and poking the display Macbooks in store.

 

[Rick-ITA]

As for me I prefer 1280x800.

1440x900, in a 13" screen and without a resolution independent OS is too small for me.

However what's great in a retina display is that you can use 1440x900 (if you wish) without an enormous degradation of image quality. I tried 1280x800 in an MBA and the result was horrendous.

Luckly I'm pretty optimistic that retina resolution will not be changed in the next update.