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Waiting for Haswell MBP Mega Thread

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iKrivetko said:
I don't really see Apple putting a dGPU into the Retina. The 750 won't be that much more powerful than the Iris to be worth the premium, while fitting a 760 into an already not-so-cold laptop might be quite extreme.
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I think the 750m is still going to be significantly faster than an Iris, but keep in mind Iris is still slower then the 650m. In some cases the Iris Pro is almost half the speed of the 650m.

Do you think Apple really expects to sell people on a GPU that performs at half the speed of the old one?

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SnackTime said:
I don't think there is much point speculating when they'll be released based off of appearance of benchmarks. Besides showing a release that is sooner rather than later I don't think they're necessarily indicative of a release that is days, weeks, months, etc away.

The new Mac Pro was benchmarked alongside the (likely) 13" rmbp, but we know the Mac Pro won't be out until later this year, as well as having TB2. So, the appearance of a benchmark score doesn't indicate much beyond the fact that they will be released at some point in the future, probably not too far away.
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Good point, I had forgotten about the Mac Pro benchmarks. Though, I guess a July release is still possible, since Apple has all the components (except TB2, if Apple chooses to wait 3 months for it) and the production line ready (Mac Pro being assembled in the US and all). Whether they choose to push it out within the month is anyone's guess though.
 
goMac said:
I think the 750m is still going to be significantly faster than an Iris, but keep in mind Iris is still slower then the 650m. In some cases the Iris Pro is almost half the speed of the 650m.

Do you think Apple really expects to sell people on a GPU that performs at half the speed of the old one?

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so....anandtech is being paid by Intel to inject some steroids into their review .... makes sense :rolleyes:
 
Loge said:
Only 6MB L3 cache though.
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If the machine releases after September 1st then it'll most likely be the mid-option, and the 4960HQ will be released, and it'll most likely be same clock speed of the 4950HQ but with 8MB cache. (Spec hasn't been released for the 4960HQ).
 
Lunfai said:
If the machine releases after September 1st then it'll most likely be the mid-option, and the 4960HQ will be released, and it'll most likely be same clock speed of the 4950HQ but with 8MB cache. (Spec hasn't been released for the 4960HQ).
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Thanks to its 128MB L4-Cache (as anandtech lal shimpi described it), i don't think we will see a 8MB-L3-Cache in the HQ line.

And I have to correct me in previous posts. Now I think this will be the highend CPU and after a guy from primelabs confirmed that he can't see a dGPU, I think it could be that we won't see any dGPU in the entire Pro line. On the other side I can't really imagine that they will drop the dGPU completely.
 
BASTI51 said:
Thanks to its 128MB L4-Cache (as anandtech lal shimpi described it), i don't think we will see a 8MB-L3-Cache in the HQ line.

And I have to correct me in previous posts. Now I think this will be the highend CPU and after a guy from primelabs confirmed that he can't see a dGPU, I think it could be that we won't see any dGPU in the entire Pro line. On the other side I can't really imagine that they will drop the dGPU completely.
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I really cannot imagine Apple dropping the dGPU.
It'll be counterproductive making the previous gen better than the future one.
 
With a dGPU, I wouldn't understand why they use the HQ instead of the MQ models. If you have a dGPU to do the heavy lifting, why not use the MQ CPUs with Intel 4600 to get more CPU power?

With the current graphics switching design, there is no point having the Iris GPU to drive 4k displays, since the external ports only talk to the dGPU. So I don't see many reasons to have the most powerful iGPU - the only thing I can think off is that a weaker iGPU does not offer enough performance to drive the retina screen for everyday use. Could this mean that they further increased the resolution?

One of the biggest points against Iris + dGPU is the price. Iris adds about $50-$60 to the CPU price. If they don't save an equal amount by removing the dGPU, Apple has to cut elsewhere.

Removing the dGPU would free up a lot of space in the rMBP. The cooling could be more compact and more efficient (=quiet), there would be more space for battery cells.

The gamer in me of course hopes for a dGPU solution.
 
thundersteele said:
With a dGPU, I wouldn't understand why they use the HQ instead of the MQ models. If you have a dGPU to do the heavy lifting, why not use the MQ CPUs with Intel 4600 to get more CPU power?

With the current graphics switching design, there is no point having the Iris GPU to drive 4k displays, since the external ports only talk to the dGPU. So I don't see many reasons to have the most powerful iGPU - the only thing I can think off is that a weaker iGPU does not offer enough performance to drive the retina screen for everyday use. Could this mean that they further increased the resolution?

One of the biggest points against Iris + dGPU is the price. Iris adds about $50-$60 to the CPU price. If they don't save an equal amount by removing the dGPU, Apple has to cut elsewhere.

Removing the dGPU would free up a lot of space in the rMBP. The cooling could be more compact and more efficient (=quiet), there would be more space for battery cells.

The gamer in me of course hopes for a dGPU solution.
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Doesn't matter. MBA 2013 CPU is $117 more expensive and they made it cheaper by $100.
 
Call me crazy, but I'm betting on the new rMBPs coming when Mavericks is released...so are the tea leaves any clearer on Mavericks release?
 
goMac said:
I think the 750m is still going to be significantly faster than an Iris, but keep in mind Iris is still slower then the 650m. In some cases the Iris Pro is almost half the speed of the 650m.

Do you think Apple really expects to sell people on a GPU that performs at half the speed of the old one?

Image
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It is slower overall, no argument here, yet calling it half as slow based on one benchmark isn't really correct. There were benchmarks where it performed on par and where it performed better, even. Let's put it that way, for most of the tasks of an average rMBP user, it will likely be on par with the 650, in some ways probably even a bit better, while being massively less hot and power-hungry.
 
iKrivetko said:
It is slower overall, no argument here, yet calling it half as slow based on one benchmark isn't really correct. There were benchmarks where it performed on par and where it performed better, even. Let's put it that way, for most of the tasks of an average rMBP user, it will likely be on par with the 650, in some ways probably even a bit better, while being massively less hot and power-hungry.
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The Iris only seems to win when a vsync cap is hit, which is an artificial win. Anything that's actually stressful, and it isn't competitive.

If you look at the Anand review almost 90% of the time, the 650 beats it. the Iris also has no significant wins over the 650, only times when they both hit an FPS cap.

Meantime the 650 is significantly faster most of the time. And that's not even a 750m, just a 650m.

It's a really hard sell for Apple to not have a dGPU option when the integrated GPU is slower than the last gen.

If you want I can start linking more benchmarks so it's not just one benchmark...
 
BASTI51 said:
Thanks to its 128MB L4-Cache (as anandtech lal shimpi described it), i don't think we will see a 8MB-L3-Cache in the HQ line.

And I have to correct me in previous posts. Now I think this will be the highend CPU and after a guy from primelabs confirmed that he can't see a dGPU, I think it could be that we won't see any dGPU in the entire Pro line. On the other side I can't really imagine that they will drop the dGPU completely.
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Hmm. I haven't done too much research on it, maybe a slightly higher clockrate, but I'm not sure.
 
iKrivetko said:
It is slower overall, no argument here, yet calling it half as slow based on one benchmark isn't really correct. There were benchmarks where it performed on par and where it performed better, even. Let's put it that way, for most of the tasks of an average rMBP user, it will likely be on par with the 650, in some ways probably even a bit better, while being massively less hot and power-hungry.
Click to expand...

From the benchmarks I've seen the only area where the Iris Pro takes a big hit is games at higher resolutions.
 
as a light gamer and a heavy user of resource intensive programs.... i'm glad I bought a model with a dGPU. I think the battery gains with mavericks will be enough of an upgrade. I can't justify the performance sacrifices apple is making for battery life here.
 
Is there anything else besides gaming where the dedicated GPU is better than the Iris Pro? Serious question since I don't buy laptops for gaming. My usage of it is mainly Adobe InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, and Lightroom. I would work at the retina "1680x1050" scaled resolution and probably connect it to a second monitor as well (1920x1200).
 
wolfboy said:
Is there anything else besides gaming where the dedicated GPU is better than the Iris Pro? Serious question since I don't buy laptops for gaming. My usage of it is mainly Adobe InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, and Lightroom. I would work at the retina "1680x1050" scaled resolution and probably connect it to a second monitor as well (1920x1200).
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There is so much speculation going on with no real proof who really knows. The best bet is to wait for the haswell release AND let the review sites run the benchmarks before making a purchase decision.
 
Livewings said:
Doesn't matter. MBA 2013 CPU is $117 more expensive and they made it cheaper by $100.
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Ok, that is an interesting point. I wasn't aware that the list price has increased this much for haswell. Do you think there is significant cost savings by having more stuff on the die?

What I was comparing is the list price for the 4600HD and the Iris version of otherwise identical chips. While Apple in any case is not paying that price, I think it still shows that there is some additional cost from having the Iris CPU. The question is why you would add this when it has little effect for the consumer, i.e. when a discrete GPU is there anyways.


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Maybe we are also starting to see Apple weighing volume higher than margins for the Air. Would they extend this to the "Pro" segment?
 
Well this is some pretty disappointing news.

I can't believe Apple would get rid of the GPU. Maybe they make it an option? Then Apple could set the rMBP base price to $1799 with the student discount so they could charge $200 for the 750M.

I really don't know what Apple will do for the next generation rMBP. If they end up dropping the GPU, I will probably buy the current one refurbished
 
Watabou said:
Well this is some pretty disappointing news.

I can't believe Apple would get rid of the GPU. Maybe they make it an option? Then Apple could set the rMBP base price to $1799 with the student discount so they could charge $200 for the 750M.

I really don't know what Apple will do for the next generation rMBP. If they end up dropping the GPU, I will probably buy the current one refurbished
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Well if they do drop the dGPU and there isn't a option to add one then I will deffo be getting a current gen. I am all for better battery life with Haswell but not in exchange for no dGPU.
 
Hmm... Actually if the Iris Pro without a dGPU means I can play lighter games (Starcraft 2) without ever having the fans kick in due to lower power consumption, that could be an interesting option. Regardless, I'd be surprised if Apple drops the dGPU entirely.
 
SnackTime said:
I think the point being it isn't a laptop designed with gaming in mind.
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It's not just for gaming.

3D applications like AutoCAD, Maya, 3DS Max, etc... all depend heavily on 3D performance.

And I'd bet you any amount of money that people wouldn't be too happy buying a rMBP just so they can run Maya at half the native resolution.

And also considering that some may want to run the next rMBP to 4K displays, that's even worse for Iris Pro.

Ironsyde said:
Hmm... Actually if the Iris Pro without a dGPU means I can play lighter games (Starcraft 2) without ever having the fans kick in due to lower power consumption, that could be an interesting option. Regardless, I'd be surprised if Apple drops the dGPU entirely.
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Sorry, not possible. MacBook Air with Haswell kicks the fan in like crazy with StarCraft 2. That's just HD 5000.

HD 5200 puts out more heat than HD 5000, so you still have to deal with the fan.
 
bill-p said:
Sorry, not possible. MacBook Air with Haswell kicks the fan in like crazy with StarCraft 2. That's just HD 5000.

HD 5200 puts out more heat than HD 5000, so you still have to deal with the fan.
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The Air has a very small heatsink/fan setup as well. The 15" rMBP currently has the cooling capacity for a 45W CPU and a 45W GPU running at the same time. Dropping that from 90W to 47W total thermal load will be a big reduction in maximum heat output. Unless they completely gimp the cooling system at the same time it should run much cooler.

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From the front page article:

Update 8:53 AM:
Primate Labs' John Poole tells MacRumors that Geekbench does collect GPU information, and that this machine does NOT appear to have a discrete GPU in addition to the integrated Iris 5200 graphics from Intel. Poole notes that it is possible that Geekbench could have failed to pick up the presence of a discrete GPU, as Primate Labs is still working out issue with that feature of the software, but that all testing so far has indicated that Geekbench should see the discrete GPU if it is present, even if it has been turned off for the benchmarking run.
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https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1607952/
 
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