MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[Kpjoslee]

OK, no problem: HP stands ready. Done.

Still here? That's fine too. We can all continue to spin rumors into facts and debate what Apple's direction should be, e.g.:

* Just bring back the cheese-grater!
* Something up-gradable yet quiet, not too hot and not too imposing, with a little elegance.
* Don't care, but it needs to look expensive and not garner a mocking nick-name.
* One word: "Modular!"

In the end, we'll all find something to complain about anyway.

I am pretty sure we will be staring at a work being done on workstation whole lot longer than the workstation itself lol.
Look, I don't mind having a workstation that also has great industrial design either. I just hope Apple understands that most important aspect about workstation is what is under the hood rather than just pretty looking design.

 

[Ph.D.]

Ph.D I think you will find people just want an expandable workstation like the cheese grater mac pro was.
...
There is a crap load of people who never migrated to the trashcan mac pro and stayed with the cheese grater models because of those exact needs for an upgradable mac os workstation.

If a new cheese grater came along, I'd probably get one. I still have a 3,1. I waited for a "proper" update, and then the 'can arrived instead. In despair I built a Linux box for my heavier-duty computing. It was cheap and fast and up-to-date and even more flexible than the 'grater. I can swap out whatever I want whenever I want, including motherboards. I did spend a little more for a high-quality aluminum case.

But linux isn't the best for office stuff, etc., and a hackintosh is not the answer. I now have an iMac for lighter work (base 2017, 27", 512 SSD). I supposedly got it as a hold-over until the mMP, but it's really quite nice. My biggest complaints are the sealed-in internal drive, and the fact that it's not fanless (I'd accept less performance for that).

So, I'd love to have a new cheese grater-like tower, but I wonder if I need that anymore. In a Mac Pro what I mostly want now is a separate spectacular display, quiet operation, a fast CPU, leading-edge graphics, and an ability to conveniently add/move multiple internal drives (plus RAM). That's already more than the iMac Pro offers. An ability to keep up with the rapidly-evolving video card tech would be very welcome too. I guess that sounds like cheese-grater (lite?), and within reach of the mMP. But Apple does what it wants. So, no expectations.

 

[William Payne]

It sounds like you are wanting similar to what the others are wanting so it sounds like most of us are on the same page.

I am really curious what the display will be. I have been looking into pre thunderbolt apple cinema displays to act as a non critical general use monitor. I only want one due to the aesthetics of the monitor but the used market here in New Zealand is super dumb for those monitors and I could buy a spectacular third party monitor for the price people want for apple cinema displays.

What ever this new display will be will have to be super spectacular for me to stop looking at Eizo's for critical work.

 

[pixelatedscraps]

In a Mac Pro what I mostly want now is a separate spectacular display, quiet operation, a fast CPU, leading-edge graphics, and an ability to conveniently add/move multiple internal drives (plus RAM). That's already more than the iMac Pro offers. An ability to keep up with the rapidly-evolving video card tech would be very welcome too. I guess that sounds like cheese-grater (lite?), and within reach of the mMP. But Apple does what it wants. So, no expectations.

If they can shrink down the cheese grater to something off a m-ITX or m-ATX equivalent size, then we're gold. Give me 6x TB3 ports, 4x USB 3.1 Gen II A ports, mDP and HDMI, 2.5" hard drive bays (anything bigger can go external), the ability to fit two full length GPUs (or at a pinch, two mid-sized), upgradeable RAM and 4x PCIe slots and I would order two of them exactly 6 months after launch date. I don't mess around with brand new Apple tech if I can avoid it - one lesson learned. Screw the Apple monitor unless its 100% AdobeRGB and with a matte option - otherwise its EIZO / NEC or Dell only for me, despite them being fairly fugly and shapely.

Hell, I'd order three.

 

[JesperA]

Yeah pixelatedscraps your specs definitely don't fit in mITX, doubt it fits in m-ATX either.

Also, why is there such a fixation with size, most of us have space for a full tower on or below our desks. Sure, smaller is obviously nice but when it comes to Apple (as proven by the trashcan) it compromises its utilitarian functions.

Look how much punch Dell packs into their new 7920 https://www.custompcreview.com/news/dell-shows-precision-5820-7820-7920-workstations-siggraph-2017/

It has such a varied configuration and third party options that it will work for a wide variety of industries without compromises. The Dell 7820 is slightly smaller and thats a good target size for Apple, in that package size they could cram everything that people have been asking for for years.

But if the "leaks" are true then it seems like we are in for another "workstation revolution" (in Apples eyes) instead of a utility focused workstation.

 

[pixelatedscraps]

Yeah pixelatedscraps your specs definitely don't fit in mITX, doubt it fits in m-ATX either.

I'd be happy with something in between the size of a 6,1 and a 5,1. And as much as I love my 5,1, it is just too damned heavy and unwieldy these days. There are times when I'm on a shoot and wish I didn't have to deal with the limitations of a MBP and could just bring my desktop with me.

 

[JesperA]

I'd be happy with something in between the size of a 6,1 and a 5,1. And as much as I love my 5,1, it is just too damned heavy and unwieldy these days. There are times when I'm on a shoot and wish I didn't have to deal with the limitations of a MBP and could just bring my desktop with me.

Fair enough, but that sounds more like another headless Mac that would fit between the Mac Mini and the future Mac Pro (skewed more to the Mac Pro than Mac Mini ofcourse), so Mac Pro like the Dell 7820 (boatload of RAM, dual socket, double dual slot GPU:s and still room for several expansion cards etc etc) and then another single socket Mac whatever naming scheme that would use, kinda like a headless iMac Pro, not that Apple would ever consider this but thats what i would prefer.

 

[pixelatedscraps]

Mac Pro like the Dell 7820 (boatload of RAM, dual socket, double dual slot GPU:s and still room for several expansion cards etc etc

Just looked at it, looks powerful. If Dell can do it, I'm sure Apple can shrink slightly and make it look sexy.

Now while we're still daydreaming, I'd like 4 hands, the ability to time travel and 36 hours in a day...

 

[InuNacho]

That Dell 7820 looks pretty neat although I've been ruined by the ease of working inside of a computer by my Mac Pro. Wires everywhere, bleh.

 

[Moonjumper]

I hope they don't include glass. Many desktop towers end up under the desk, where they can get knocked by the user's legs. Glass is too fragile for that.

Modularity is important for me, in part because it means downtime from failures will often be shorter. I used to have an iMac, but it spent a total of a month at the Apple Store for repairs. I don't want that again.

My other hope is that it can take a wider variety of components. Being able to go further down the performance range means higher sales volumes, so it will be more likely worth Apple spending time on keeping it up to date. This is the total opposite of what happened with the trash can. Of course this shouldn't be done in a way that detracts from the needs of the high end spec options.

 

[flat five]

I hope they don't include glass. Many desktop towers end up under the desk, where they can get knocked by the user's legs. Glass is too fragile for that.

nah.. some glass is too fragile for that.. but you can kick, say, a car's windshield pretty hard with no ill effects (to the glass)

that said, i don't imagine they'll use glass simply for the sake of using glass.. it would likely serve a purpose if they use it.
say, better wireless range? on board display of some sorts?.. (or-- i don't know.. i suppose looks alone may be a deciding factor.. glass is a building material after all)

 

[Ph.D.]

I am really curious what the display will be.

That's easy. As I mentioned, I saw that too.

Look at the new thread I started on the topic.

 

[Aldaris]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-in-house-monitor-for-the-mac-pro.2071692/

Save you the lookup

 

[ixxx69]

OK, no problem: HP stands ready. Done.

Yeah, I know I should just stop trying, but I can't figure out why there is this group of folks who hang out here day after day, and literally want the exact opposite of what Apple is all about, and what Apple has always been about (which isn't always good IMO, but one thing Apple has been is very consistent).

Yet this group of persistent posters presses on as though they represent the majority of the "pro" market, when they actually represent about 2% of the "pro" market.

 

[CWallace]

Yeah, I know I should just stop trying, but I can't figure out why there is this group of folks who hang out here day after day, and literally want the exact opposite of what Apple is all about, and what Apple has always been about (which isn't always good IMO, but one thing Apple has been is very consistent).

They want a Windows PC without the Windows. And they want a fully-supported macOS installation rather than going through the hassle of installing and maintaining a Hackintosh.

 

[InuNacho]

Yeah, I know I should just stop trying, but I can't figure out why there is this group of folks who hang out here day after day, and literally want the exact opposite of what Apple is all about, and what Apple has always been about (which isn't always good IMO, but one thing Apple has been is very consistent).

It's actually quite confusing what Apple is all about.
The original Compact Macs were designed so that the user couldn't upgrade them but that they'd be replaceable. Then Jobs left and essentially everything was upgradeable and to some extent modular, heck even the wimpiest LCs and low end Performas had some kind of modular path. Then Jobs came back and we had the easy to open B/W G3 and G4 lineup. Finally we had the G5/Pros but have somehow come full loop to a machine that cannot be upgraded easily by the user.
So honestly I have no idea where Apple stands with the Pro desktop stuff.

 

[Mago]

it would likely serve a purpose if they use it.

Glass its easier to clean, system is quieter too.

Yet this group of persistent posters presses on as though they represent the majority of the "pro" market, when they actually represent about 2% of the "pro" market.

Apple either has to split the McPro in two different systems, one a tras-can sized single GPU desktop with similar internals to the iMac Pro just a bit extra TDP, and a 2P-3-6 GPU monster for those on the edge, or try to build a system as modular (modular as in factory assembly line, not as in DIY) as possible but which can be configured for those requiring basic GPU and extreme CPU, or with middle range CPU and extreme GPU setup, and all the mid tiers available as BTO.

 

[ixxx69]

It's actually quite confusing what Apple is all about.
The original Compact Macs were designed so that the user couldn't upgrade them but that they'd be replaceable. Then Jobs left and essentially everything was upgradeable and to some extent modular, heck even the wimpiest LCs and low end Performas had some kind of modular path. Then Jobs came back and we had the easy to open B/W G3 and G4 lineup. Finally we had the G5/Pros but have somehow come full loop to a machine that cannot be upgraded easily by the user.
So honestly I have no idea where Apple stands with the Pro desktop stuff.

That's a great example of what a lot of people here aren't getting... they look at this as a "this model had feature Y in 1994, and feature X in 2006" and "this model has Z in 2017", so therefor Apple is all over the place. No, that's just tech and the marketplace changing over decades.

Apple doesn't look at or design computers that way. That's why they'll never pay attention to users like on this forum. And all you have to do is look at all the keynotes, interviews with Jobs, Ives, Cook, etc., and all the product marketing and literature for the last 30 years. Hey, I'm not saying a lot of it isn't laughable, but again, I know what I'm signing up for when I use Apple.

But you all can continuing living in this computer fantasy world, LOL.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Mago, exactly what I said before. Revamped nMP with Skylake.-W and tower like mMP with Purley and SKL-SP. Simple as that.
Maybe the 2 systems Ph. D mentioned will both come out of Apple with such setups.

 

[Kpjoslee]

That's a great example of what a lot of people here aren't getting... they look at this as a "this model had feature Y in 1994, and feature X in 2006" and "this model has Z in 2017", so therefor Apple is all over the place. No, that's just tech and the marketplace changing over decades.

Apple doesn't look at or design computers that way. That's why they'll never pay attention to users like on this forum. And all you have to do is look at all the keynotes, interviews with Jobs, Ives, Cook, etc., and all the product marketing and literature for the last 30 years. Hey, I'm not saying a lot of it isn't laughable, but again, I know what I'm signing up for when I use Apple.

But you all can continuing living in this computer fantasy world, LOL.

Well, at least Apple recognized the shortcomings of trashcan Mac Pro and went back to the drawing board so I am expecting better things at least

All depends how much Apple is interested in investing on high-end part of their whole ecosystem.

 

[askunk]

Fair enough, but that sounds more like another headless Mac that would fit between the Mac Mini and the future Mac Pro (skewed more to the Mac Pro than Mac Mini ofcourse), so Mac Pro like the Dell 7820 (boatload of RAM, dual socket, double dual slot GPU:s and still room for several expansion cards etc etc) and then another single socket Mac whatever naming scheme that would use, kinda like a headless iMac Pro, not that Apple would ever consider this but thats what i would prefer.

For now we're just speculating, of course.
What if "modular" means that the actual volume of the machine grows along with the expansion cards you choose to install?

 

[Mago]

Mago, exactly what I said before. Revamped nMP with Skylake.-W and tower like mMP with Purley and SKL-SP. Simple as that.
Maybe the 2 systems Ph. D mentioned will both come out of Apple with such setups.

I think Apple scrapped the lower system (and the tcMP) in favor to the iMac Pro, those pro's looking for 18 core and Vega 64 are likely to chose an iMac instead an trashcan and a 5K display Apple don't manufacture yet (but will do), Also I doubt the Macintosh Pro to Offer more than 1 socket, while its easier to find application for multi-gpu compute, unless you are doing software R&D on high parallelism is unlikely you'll die for more than 32 cores which is the max available on AMD Epyc.

To some Fanboys the idea to adopt AMD as mac's CPU seems unfeasible (as h/w launches at WWDC, or a final year keynote introducing Macs and iPads, or to introduce new MacBook before 12 months cycle tbMBP L16- M17) all these imaginary Apple Behavior its Bull5it Apple isn't an animal, its ore like an army firing on your wallet, they will do whatever to take your money and run.

AMD Ryzen/Epyc has some advantages for the next Macs: Cheaper, faster single thread IPC, more PCIe lines more peripherals w less components thus more efficient and reliable, ECC its optional across the line, not just a Xeon privilege, even the new Ryzen-APUs also allow for a Mac Mini (and non-pro iMacs) to have optimal graphic performance w/o having to switch to a discrete GPU.

New AMD cpus gained a positive welcome from performance enthusiast, biw arent the cheap slower power hungry intel alternative, are sometimes faster and cheaper but not cheap anymore, integrates RAM encryption which makes the system safer.

And there are rumours about fom many sources, not just anonymous, I mean KGI, other sources said Apple commissioned AMD a custom APU for the iMac, mini and Macbooks targeted to Q4'17, too much noise about AMD CPU in a Mac just to be a crazy assumption.

I post DNGs leak/predictions since are funny but sometimes he scores a hit, maybe the mMP will be his next Hit, I think we are few weeks away to meet the new mMP/MacMini.

Also, consider the next Mac Mini, maybe its not so-mini having decent CPU/GPU (ryzen 5/7 + Vega 11 + on board HBM2), this means the Mac Mini will steal lower end Mac Pro sales too.

 

[Aldaris]

I post DNGs leak/predictions since are funny but sometimes he scores a hit, maybe the mMP will be his next Hit, I think we are few weeks away to meet the new mMP/MacMini.

FWIW- I appreciate the leaks whether true/genuine or not. I’m really hoping for some teases that come along with the iMac pro release (I would hope they would at least update on the Mac Pro status. I mean if some pros settle for the iMac and then the ‘tower’ is released less than 6 months down the line they might have some pissed customers).

 

[ixxx69]

Well, at least Apple recognized the shortcomings of trashcan Mac Pro and went back to the drawing board so I am expecting better things at least

All depends how much Apple is interested in investing on high-end part of their whole ecosystem.

Apple was ready to abandon the MP altogether. There's just not a large market for that type of computer anymore, particularly on the macOS side (and there never has been for Apple, even during the "glory" G4/G5/cMP days). Then Apple got cold feet, and figured an iMac Pro would do it. Then they got cold feet on that and pre-announced the mMP.

What I think Apple recognized was they were losing mind-share with "power users" and "enthusiasts", and if those folks ditch their Macs for Windows, they may take a lot of mindshare with them, and then it's a short step to an Android phone (I'm sure we can all share anecdotal numbers about how many Macs have been bought because we recommended them to colleagues/friends/family). But Apple isn't developing a new Mac Pro for 2% of the overall market... it just doesn't make any sense that they would do that.

Apple's very interested in investing in "high-end parts", it's just what Apple sees as a high-end part is not the same as how a lot of people on this forum think about high-end parts.

 

[flat five]

FWIW- I appreciate the leaks whether true/genuine or not. I’m really hoping for some teases that come along with the iMac pro release (I would hope they would at least update on the Mac Pro status. I mean if some pros settle for the iMac and then the ‘tower’ is released less than 6 months down the line they might have some pissed customers).

yeah, that's likely a situation i'll be in..
when the iMac Pro is released, do i still wait to see what the MacPro may be like in order to decide between the two?
or do they give some more info? enough information to gauge whether or not to go with the iMac Pro or wait for MacPro.

that said, i originally bought an iMac in 2014 as a hold-me-over to seeing nMP 7,1 which never came.. and since that time, i've actually found i really like the form factor of iMac.. in essence, there is no computer and the space previously occupied by my cMP has been repurposed (cabinet under desk)..

so for me personally, maybe not much of a conundrum but for others who will likely border on iMac Pro or MacPro, it will be weird for them to not get some more info regarding MP prior to deciding on an iMacPro.