MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[pl1984]

You have it backwards. It's two power feeds going to 1 connection on the card. The reason is that some power supplies and the cMPs MB have six pin connectors. Those cables are 2 six pin to 1 eight pin. They are meant for 2 six pin power feeds to power 1 eight pin connection on the card.

Notice that card comes with 2 sets cables.

This explanation makes more sense but it appears to be opposite of what you said earlier:

Don't think so! If the card contains both 6 and 8 pin connectors, you need both hooked up for the card to be powered properly and work.​

I read this as the card having two connectors on the card and not two power feeds from the power supply being fed from a splitter (combiner?) cable to a single connector on the card. Did I misread that?

 

[Mikael H]

This explanation makes more sense but it appears to be opposite of what you said earlier:

Don't think so! If the card contains both 6 and 8 pin connectors, you need both hooked up for the card to be powered properly and work.​

I read this as the card having two connectors on the card and not two power feeds from the power supply being fed from a splitter (combiner?) cable to a single connector on the card. Did I misread that?

Look at the picture earlier in the thread. The card NEEDS two 8-pin connections to be fully powered. The supplier makes it easier for customers by supplying converters so they can optionally use any combination of 8-pin and [2x6-pin] connectors from their PSU to feed the card its two required connections. But if you don’t power the card using both 8-pin connectors, it won’t work as intended (if at all).

 

[Derived]

Whatever the MP7,1 form factor is chosen, one thing its sure, it wont be easy open to DIY upgrades, it will be modular for apple's CTO assembly purposes, but I doubt Apple will turn back on its consistent policy about making everything proprietary, the iMac Pro witness this, while it seem it uses std DIMMs it aren't User accessible/upgrade able as on the iMac 5K.

I think Apple will still allowing Hackintosh either explicitly or implicitly for those requiring more flexibility.

PD, iMac Pro sales (pre-order) should begins next Tuesday according some sources, no word yet about deliveries, a thing its sure wont be available at brick and mortar stores for a while (maybe only for CTO pickup delivery).

This makes no sense whatsoever, this is literally the opposite of both what they said they were going to do and what the target market wants. Again, I really don't understand where some of you are getting these insanely cynical ideas...they're nonsensical. The cylinder Mac Pro is easy to open, easy to upgrade, physically...it's just that they never really did anything with it due to shooting themselves in the foot with power/heat management. Noting is "soldered in" and I really can't believe this is still a discussion being had 4 years after the thing has hit the shelves.

It will absolutely be easy to open, easy to upgrade, nothing else makes sense or is even worth discussing. This is like insisting that Ferrari's next sports car will have a 2 liter diesel 4 cylinder and steel wheels, just because the same parent company also makes Fiat 500s. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[CWallace]

This makes no sense whatsoever, this is literally the opposite of both what they said they were going to do and what the target market wants. Again, I really don't understand where some of you are getting these insanely cynical ideas...they're nonsensical.

Perception Bias. Nothing else Apple makes is easily user-upgradeable, so why would the next Mac Pro be?

As you note, the original Mac Pro was user-accessible and partially upgradeable (CPU and SSD) and was likely meant to be GPU upgradeable, as well. Apple wasn't planning on giving us a new Mac Pro, but changed their mind after being told that the iMac Pro lacked the user upgradeability a pro model needed. So if the reason they are giving us a Mac Pro is because people demand user upgradeability, it's going to have user upgradeability. It might not take any off-the-shelf card you want to throw in it, but then again it might. But it will at least have the option for Apple and enterprising third-parties (like OWC) to offer upgrades to it.

 

[pl1984]

Look at the picture earlier in the thread. The card NEEDS two 8-pin connections to be fully powered. The supplier makes it easier for customers by supplying converters so they can optionally use any combination of 8-pin and [2x6-pin] connectors from their PSU to feed the card its two required connections. But if you don’t power the card using both 8-pin connectors, it won’t work as intended (if at all).

I see that. Which goes back to my initial question: Why two power connectors instead of one? Are the two connectors required because today's power supplies are incapable of supplying the necessary power through a single connector? And how does that contradict vailr's statement that cards which include a 6 and 8 pin connector can use either one?

It appears there are two different concepts being discussed:

1. Cards with power requirements exceeding the capability of a single power connector thus necessitating multiple connectors.
2. Cars that supply 6 and 8 pin connectors as a convenience allowing the user to choose which type of power connector they wish to use.

The first is what flowrider appears to be discussing whereas the latter is what vailr appears to have been discussing.

 

[flowrider]

It appears there are two different concepts being discussed:

1. Cards with power requirements exceeding the capability of a single power connector thus necessitating multiple connectors.
2. Cars that supply 6 and 8 pin connectors as a convenience allowing the user to choose which type of power connector they wish to use.

Please let's mercifully put this to bed. As explained earlier, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS YOU SUGGEST IN YOUR ITEM NO. 2!

Any GPU with multiple connectors requires that they both be powered.

As far as why some cards need multiple connectors, it's all about power draw. See this:

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

Lou

 

[pl1984]

Please let's mercifully put this to bed. As explained earlier, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS YOU SUGGEST IN YOUR ITEM NO. 2!

Relax. No need to get worked up over this.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I'm not worked up. You have never seen me worked up, not a pretty sight. It's just that a couple of you folks seem to lack basic component knowledge and rather than asking questions and learning, you make capricious statements, and then you further try to defend those statements.

I have been trying to make you understand, and I guess doing a damn poor job off it

They say that ignorance is bliss, but that's really not the case.

Lou

 

[pl1984]

^^^^I'm not worked up. You have never seen me worked up, not a pretty sight. It's just that a couple of you folks seem to lack basic component knowledge and rather than asking questions and learning, you make capricious statements, and then you further try to defend those statements.

I have been trying to make you understand, and I guess doing a damn poor job off it

They say that ignorance is bliss, but that's really not the case.

You mean I should admit I am weak in this area and should ask you questions? Something like this:

I admit I have little experience with high end graphics cards but what is the advantage of having dual power connectors on the card and then providing a splitter cable to connect them to a single power feed?​

Or clarifying questions? Something like this:

I read this as the card having two connectors on the card and not two power feeds from the power supply being fed from a splitter (combiner?) cable to a single connector on the card. Did I misread that?​

Or this:

Are the two connectors required because today's power supplies are incapable of supplying the necessary power through a single connector?​

Perhaps I missed it but I don't recall having read anything of yours which would have led me to the conclusion:

As explained earlier, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS YOU SUGGEST IN YOUR ITEM NO. 2!​

Now I admit I haven't read all 277 pages of discussion so it's quite possible you had but I didn't see anything to that effect. To the contrary you stated the following in the post of yours I responded to:

If the card contains both 6 and 8 pin connectors, you need both hooked up for the card to be powered properly and work.​

You'll have to excuse my confusion because you said "If the card contains both 6 and 8 pin connectors" and then you go on to say they don't exist.

All that said I don't see myself as defending anything but rather trying to understand the situation.

Since you're getting all worked up over it I think it best we just stop our discussion here. I promise not to ask you any more questions about this subject and you promise not to respond to any posts I make to others on this subject.

 

[flowrider]

MY, MY, MY, - I don't know where you are from, but you don't seem to understand the American English language, or I am not expressing myself well. Note - Before I retired, I made my living writing contracts, and folks actually understood what I wrote.

Now you posted this:

You'll have to excuse my confusion because you said "If the card contains both 6 and 8 pin connectors" and then you go on to say they don't exist.

I never ever said that. of course they exist and have for some time. But, what is NOT true is:

Cards that supply 6 and 8 pin connectors as a convenience allowing the user to choose which type of power connector they wish to use..

When there is dual eight pin, dual 6 pin or an 8 and a 6 pin connector on a GPU, both need to be powered, or quite simply the card will not work.

You mean I should admit I am weak in this area and should ask you questions?

Oh God Yes. Rather then making untrue statements, seeking guidance is certainly not a sign of weakness, but a sign that you want and are willing to learn.

Lou

 

[pertusis1]

Back to the subject of the string, I wholeheartedly agree with the perception bias comment above. Most of Apple's products for 10 years have become progressively more shut down. Nobody complains (too much) until they did it to the MP 6,1. Suddenly, the trickle of people leaving the MP platform turns into a flood, and Apple takes notes. They then announce a CHANGE of course. I think we can reasonably expect an upgradeable machine next time around. I just hope it's not radical for the sake of radicalness.

 

[OS6-OSX]

 

[Mago]

I want to remember you guys, this thread is for Mac Pro 7,1 related discussion (or whimper to be more specific), move your GPU non mMP7,1 related comments to the right thread...
[doublepost=1512581880][/doublepost]

. Apple wasn't planning on giving us a new Mac Pro, but changed their mind after being told that the iMac Pro lacked the user upgradeability a pro model needed. So if the reason they are giving us a Mac Pro is because people demand user upgradeability

In the Amigos gathering past April no mention to user upgradeability was made, they only said: 'we are in re-thinking process the modular Mac Pro', '[...] "put us on a thermal corner,"[...] "Apple bet on a dual-GPU design (multiple smaller GPUs, with “pro”-level performance coming from parallel processing) but the industry has gone entirely in the other direction (machines with one big GPU)." (single GPU with more than 200W TDP.), " and we want to architect it so that we can keep it fresh with regular improvements"

That's all, no single promise of DIY upgradeability, only a misunderstood reference to the Mac Pro as the 'modular Mac' as the Trash Can actually was considered a Modular Mac.

PD, I'm the first will love being able to put a couple of GP100 gpus on the mMP, I still consider it plausible but unlikely with COTS nVidia GPUs, I bet whatever you want Apple will use (or recycle) some propretary GPU design in a modular chassis where they have flexibility to offer single or dual gpus (or triple if we account DNGs leaks) on the same assembly line.

 

[Silencio]

Good Lord, what hath I wrought? My minor gripe about PCIe power distribution inside the HP Z840 has gone nuclear.

We are clearly way past due for some real Mac Pro news here.

 

[goMac]

That's all, no single promise of DIY upgradeability, only a misunderstood reference to the Mac Pro as the 'modular Mac' as the Trash Can actually was considered a Modular Mac.

I'm waiting to see what they do with eGPU.

Right now eGPU has the same problems a PCIe GPU would have. Such as no support for Thunderbolt displays.

If they can solve that on eGPU, it might make PCIe GPUs workable again on a Mac Pro.

 

[Mago]

I'm waiting to see what they do with eGPU.

eGPUs are a solution for Macbooks or basic iMacs, coz with bandwidth constrained TB3 buses (pcie x4 eqv) you'll never reach a descent performance as High End GPUs consume x8 PCIe bandwidth (even maybe more).

a mMP having raid1 NVMe and 4-6 channel memory will require x16 buses for GPUs to keep things in balance

​

 

[goMac]

eGPUs are a solution for Macbooks or basic iMacs, coz with bandwidth constrained TB3 buses (pcie x4 eqv) you'll never reach a descent performance as High End GPUs consume x8 PCIe bandwidth (even maybe more).

a mMP having raid1 NVMe and 4-6 channel memory will require x16 buses for GPUs to keep things in balance

​

I'm not talking about a Mac Pro using the eGPU hardware features. But the software work Apple is doing on eGPU could let them use PCIe GPUs without compromise.

You can't drive a Thunderbolt monitor with a PCIe GPU right now. But Apple is looking to address that as part of their eGPU work. Nothing released yet for that issue though.

 

[Mago]

But Apple is looking to address that as part of their eGPU work. Nothing released yet for that issue though.

Actually is AMD whos is working on this, their latest driver/gpus (DirectGMA / XDMA) deprecates Crossfire link for an shared frame buffer where every GPU renders its parts of the scene, so multiple GPUs can render content to the same display not using Crossfire or bridging multiple display interfaces (display port multi stream transport), so in the future (present if you have a windows machine with TB3 and AMD gpus), you can drive an external display thru the MBP tb3 interface, having an eGPU doing the hardwork and sending the images to the framebuffer controlled by the MBP's integrated GPUs. the only issue with this approach is it will spend more internal resources as PCIe bandwidth will be used to link the framebuffers, but it should work for 5K displays. 8K displays are beyond TB3 specification, maybe thru DP1.4 but this will require a GPU capable to render a 8K framebuffer, while there are DP1.4 capable GPUs those GPUs arent actually capable to display good 8K content due its frame buffer restrictions.

 

[Ph.D.]

Can we get back endlessly discussing the only information we have - the same old tiny snippets of verbiage from Apple - and continue parsing them like one might the droppings of Yoda?

Or at least let's have another round of totally-unsubstantiated and (frequently) laughably-implausible "rumors." I can help with the latter, at least, if there's a lack of imagination elsewhere. For one, there will absolutely NOT be traditional 6 or 8 pin power plugs on any Apple-designed graphics card. Confirmed!

 

[Mago]

For one, there will absolutely NOT be traditional 6 or 8 pin power plugs on any Apple-designed graphics card. Confirmed!

I can confirm, the mMP wont fit anything w/o a "made for mac pro" label ...

 

[mikas]

From what I've heard, it's going to be a 5pin + 9pin power plugs for the new mMP. They were asked why oh why is that, and the answer was:
We always want to deliver the best experience for our customers. We think it is very important. We take it very seriously. We are going to address most of the needs of the creative professionals with our modular Mac Pro. We are working very hard on this at the moment.

 

[Ph.D.]

From what I've heard, it's going to be a 5pin + 9pin power plugs for the new mMP. They were asked why oh why is that, and the answer was:
We always want to deliver the best experience for our customers. We think it is very important. We take it very seriously. We are going to address most of the needs of the creative professionals with our modular Mac Pro. We are working very hard on this at the moment.

Yes, this is close! As background, what I heard is that there's a power struggle at Apple about this very point, and that this struggle has led to significant delays in the design of the mMP.

Ives insisted that, if the mMP had multiple plugs, then the two power plugs were to be numbered per the "golden mean," i.e. Plug2=(1+sqrt(5))/2*Plug1.

This posed a serious problem for the mMP engineering team. The golden ratio is approximately 1.618. So, how to number the plugs? The Engineers proposed 5 and 8 pins, being quite close to the demanded ratio. But alas, this still wasn't good enough. If 5 was chosen for the first one, then the second must be 8.09 pins. Ives threw a fit and said that 8 was obviously too small.

Going against all their training, the engineers instead chose to round up, to 9. That, of course, was further away from the desired ratio, but at least it was "bigger" per Ives' rant. Alas, Cook said 8 would cost less than 9, and said that 0 would obviously be much better still. Ives' retorted that the Golden Mean must not be violated, reminded everyone that he could go back to making plain white magazine covers, and things have been at a stalemate since then.

 

[monokakata]

From what I've heard, it's going to be a 5pin + 9pin power plugs for the new mMP. They were asked why oh why is that, and the answer was:
We always want to deliver the best experience for our customers. We think it is very important. We take it very seriously. We are going to address most of the needs of the creative professionals with our modular Mac Pro. We are working very hard on this at the moment.

I fear the 4.5 pin/9 pin splitters will be hard to find at first, but the 2.5 pin/5 pin ones won't be. Fewer pins to engineer, don't you see?

 

[goMac]

Actually is AMD whos is working on this, their latest driver/gpus (DirectGMA / XDMA) deprecates Crossfire link for an shared frame buffer where every GPU renders its parts of the scene, so multiple GPUs can render content to the same display not using Crossfire or bridging multiple display interfaces (display port multi stream transport), so in the future (present if you have a windows machine with TB3 and AMD gpus), you can drive an external display thru the MBP tb3 interface, having an eGPU doing the hardwork and sending the images to the framebuffer controlled by the MBP's integrated GPUs. the only issue with this approach is it will spend more internal resources as PCIe bandwidth will be used to link the framebuffers, but it should work for 5K displays. 8K displays are beyond TB3 specification, maybe thru DP1.4 but this will require a GPU capable to render a 8K framebuffer, while there are DP1.4 capable GPUs those GPUs arent actually capable to display good 8K content due its frame buffer restrictions.

macOS has supported this for a long, long, long time. It just has never been integrated to the window server level, which is what we're waiting on.

Nice to see Microsoft playing catchup though, for once.

It's also worth noting that the A10 chip they're using in the iMac Pro seems to have it's GPU as well. So they might have a GPU already they can use the push images through out the Thunderbolt ports.

 

[Aldaris]

Or at least let's have another round of totally-unsubstantiated and (frequently) laughably-implausible "rumors."

This is something I can get behind.