They will sell a mandatory power dongle adapter separately for $199 per connector. Problem solved.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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They will sell a mandatory power dongle adapter separately for $199 per connector. Problem solved.
I know everyone here is trying to be funny, but this is all wrong.
I heard from a friend on Reddit who has a friend who works at the Apple store where Tim Cook once visited that the new Mac Pro will use 30 pin iPod dock connectors to power GPUs.
I know this seems implausible because obviously Apple would use Lightning connectors, but I was told there are very specific reasons why Apple chose the 30 pin iPod connector.
no amount of software work is going to overcome the fact that Thunderbolt is a PCIe x4 link. Until Intel makes a x16 thunderbolt link, an eGPU will always, permanently, now and forever, be less powerful than a regular GPU on an x16 link. no amount of software engineering is going to change the fact that you can only push 1/4th as much data through the link.
Said it before, saying it again: Thunderbolt is meant to work alongside traditional PCIe expansion, for convenience. Not replace it.
Did not say it wouldn't. But I don't see how this has anything to do with a Mac Pro, because again I don't know why people don't read what I wrote, but no where did I say that the new Mac Pro will use Thunderbolt for GPUs.
I'm not sure what your post has to do with what I said.
Might want to read what I said.
All I said is that if the new Mac Pro supports Thunderbolt displays, and PCIe cards, it would need a way to get the output image from a PCIe card to a Thunderbolt Display.
Absolutely nowhere was using eGPU as a solution suggested. Only that software fixes for eGPU might apply to this problem as well.
And it helps that the Mac Pro might have integrated graphics to assist in this via an A10 or A11 CPU.
I have it on good authority that they had thermal issues with the HomePod, to get att the goodies and keep them cool, they are reintroducing/retooling the iPod HiFi. You heard it here first and the credit goes to goMac-30-pin connector is coming back!
Maybe the A10 on board besides handling security and background services, maybe will be available to virtualize iDevices in order to provide iOS with the best Emulation in a workstation.
... does anyone else hear this in Trump's (or at least a Trump impersonator's) voice when they read it?
That makes sense. They’d want the HomePod and the Mac Pro to share connectors in since the HomePod looks just like a 2013 Mac Pro. Makes production easier.
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I don't know which way they'll go, but one thing I want to point out... The custom GPUs do add design time to the Mac Pro, are expensive to produce, and make it harder for them to launch timely updates. Also, linking the GPUs to a central cooling system instead of allowing the GPUs to have their own blowers can box them in thermally.
From Apple's perspective there are downsides to using PCIe GPUs. But even ignoring third party upgrades there are upsides to them using PCIe reference design GPUs as well. It makes it cheaper and faster to push updates, especially if you don't have to touch some central heat dissipation system.
And ability to quickly push updates is definitely something they were getting at with "modular." If they supported EFI GOP they wouldn't even need to put the time into writing custom ROMs any more.
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Not really, if you check the GPUs in the tcMP youll note its arrangement is shocking familiar to the std PCIe W8000, apple took ATI W8000's and re-routed its PCIe interface along its DP output and power plug into a custom plug, dismissed the std coolier for the thermal core, its actually an trivial cheap way to make an GPU proprietary (as the custom PCIe connector is Apple exclusive), on the mMP Apple can recycle this solution, just attaching it to a custom individual cooler instead the thermal core, it will bring Apple full GPU control and timely updates since once the reference design is available all what they need to do is to re-route the PCIe and DP interfaces to the custom GPU connector and develop a cooling device optimized according the mMP form factor.
Also consider that Expensive, its an relative accounting concept, maybe cheaper for Apple (not us) this custom GPU than having to deal with N gpu vendors, plus connection mistakes that damages motherboard, plus support calls etc, all things they can control by restricting the GPU vendor to Apple or few Apple Authorized vendors.
In contemplating Apple's history, I think we can trace some of their "lockdown" back to the 7500/8500/9500 PPC Era: these had their CPUs on easy-to-reverse-engineer (nonproprietary) daughterboards which made it quite straightforward for 3rd Party vendors to sell upgrades, and in doing so, it probably cost Apple a lot of "entire box" product sales volume.
True, but another critical part of this that's worth also noting is Apple's overall trend in offering incremental upgrade hardware: is the "modularity" simply for their own benefit in new SYSTEM hardware sales only, or are they going to sell better Graphics Cards (etc) to existing owners to perform DIY upgrades (instead of buying an entirely new MP)?
Case in point, my 2012 cMP's Graphics Card is starting to go, so I'm looking at buying a replacement: just where can I go to buy one? Do I have _any_ choices available from Apple, or am I pretty much obligated to buy from a 3rd Party source (even if it is the "same" Apple OEM version)? Note that this isn't necessarily me asking for a better Graphics card, although that's also a consideration.
So the history question is ...
...just when & where has Apple offered "new parts" for an _existing_ Mac Pro customer?
For example, if I merely want to just get another ATI Radeon HD 5870, I can't find it for sale on the Apple Store.
-hh
Long time Mac user here. Started with the original Power Mac. Loved the Cheese Grater.
Have been frustrated for years with the state of the Mac, like most people here by the looks of it!
My dream mMP:
Small form factor. Standard PCIE slot for GPU. All other connectivity managed through TB. Internal drive bays, either 2.5” SATA or M.2 NVME. All parts user serviceable, including removable CPU. Great cooling, super quiet operation.
We should start a poll and take bets on what features end up being in the final product, could be fun!
Have been frustrated for years with the state of the Mac, like most people here by the looks of it!
My dream mMP:
Small form factor. Standard PCIE slot for GPU. All other connectivity managed through TB. Internal drive bays, either 2.5” SATA or M.2 NVME. All parts user serviceable, including removable CPU. Great cooling, super quiet operation.
We should start a poll and take bets on what features end up being in the final product, could be fun!
If anything, the Mac Pros have been far cheaper to upgrade since their very inception in 2006, since they use standard Intel sockets. Just buy and install a compatible Intel CPU — no need for a third party company to get involved. Even the nMP's can get the processor swapped out or upgraded easily enough.
Apple has almost always relied on third parties to offer higher end graphics cards. That's nothing new.
I know of no GPUs being sold for any computer that doesn't contain either Nvidia or AMD chips. And, all those cards are made by third party manufacturers. This is nothing new. Apple, from time to time, does supply cards made to it's specs, but this is only for current generation machines.
And for the 5,1 cMP, being able to use third party standard configuration components, this is (was) the main draw of the machine. Nothing that I have added to my 5,1 has been Apple branded. Apple does not like that
Lou
Apple probably won't make another user-upgradable Mac Pro like the old cheesegrater.
But what if Apple offered an "authorized upgrade" service? You can bring your Mac Pro to an Apple Store and they can pop in a new graphics card, CPU, etc. Would that be something?
If you spent $5,000 or $10,000 on a Mac Pro... would you spend $1,000 after a few years to swap in a current-generation GPU? One that's guaranteed to work and with a warranty?
It would certainly better than having to buy another $5,000 or $10,000 Mac Pro after a few years. (although Apple would prefer you do just that...)
I dunno... just spitballin' here.
I just think it's insane for Apple to be selling multi-thousand dollar disposable machines... professional workstations at that.
But what if Apple offered an "authorized upgrade" service? You can bring your Mac Pro to an Apple Store and they can pop in a new graphics card, CPU, etc. Would that be something?
If you spent $5,000 or $10,000 on a Mac Pro... would you spend $1,000 after a few years to swap in a current-generation GPU? One that's guaranteed to work and with a warranty?
It would certainly better than having to buy another $5,000 or $10,000 Mac Pro after a few years. (although Apple would prefer you do just that...)
I dunno... just spitballin' here.
I just think it's insane for Apple to be selling multi-thousand dollar disposable machines... professional workstations at that.
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100%.
Now, in 2018 or 2019 when nVidia starts offering some new super-duper graphics card, the Mac Pro owner can buy one on release day and stick it in his/her Mac Pro machine. No longer needing 6 months for Apple to offer (basically) the same card costing an extra several hundred dollars, and with a proprietary "Mac only" firmware.
What's not to like?
Or I guess: if you want to "lock it down" somewhat, require taking the machine to an Apple Store Genius Bar for installation, in order to not void the warranty.
they can't do that just like how you can go to jiffy lube with out voiding the warranty
So: put on a tamper proof detection sticker?
There are many electronic devices with a peel-off tamper detection sticker over one of the screw holes, that say "Warranty void if removed".
You're right, I do hear Trump's voice....
"We always want to deliver the best experience for our customers, believe me. We think it is very important, tremendously important. We take it very seriously. We are going to address most of the needs of the creative professionals with our modular Mac Pro. We are working bigly hard on this at the moment. Nobody knew Mac Pros could be so complicated."
I think you underestimate how little work Apple wants to put into a Mac Pro. What you've described is probably more work than Apple wants to put into a Mac Pro.
With the cMP the whole system was basically designed so an extremely small team of engineers could put together updates, and most of the work could be transferred to third parties.
I think there is a lot of hype in this thread that Apple hates Mac Pro upgrades, and I don't think it's true.
My understanding of the 2013 Mac Pro is that all the decisions on the GPU were around the thermal core and Thunderbolt compatibility. That's the basis of the custom card design. Apple was assuming that when the Mac Pro sold enough that third parties would want to make upgrade cards, or when the rev b's shipped Apple could do upgrades. But neither event happened.
Even then, if Apple really hated Mac Pro upgrades, why is pretty much every other component in the machine user upgradable? I think the CPU is the only other thing not user upgradable. Even the SSD is user upgradable (even described in the documentation as so) which is a weird exception to the rest of Apple's lineup.
The thermal core I don't think will be a thing going forward. Too much constraint on thermals. You're likely to see the GPUs return to their own blowers, so that the GPU cooling is modular as well. That's one reason for the custom cards gone.
With Thunderbolt, I'm not sure yet. If they can get a Thunderbolt Display working with a PCIe card, that gets rid of both the reasons Apple went with custom cards. But that's still if.
I think Apple's preference would be to make everyone as happy as possible with the next Mac Pro, and that would mean PCIe cards, but Thunderbolt may block that.
The GPU vendors Apple deals with are AMD and Nvidia, and those two companies are responsible for the drivers. If Nvidia wanted to offer a Mac edition 1080, Apple will bundle Nvidia's drivers with macOS. Not much overhead for Apple. I don't think PCIe GPUs would mean the end of the "Made for Mac" program. So I think the whole "Apple is worried about PCIe user error" thing is baloney.
Honestly, even if the GPUs aren't PCIe, I still think we're likely to see PCIe slots anyway for other things like high end video capture cards, or third party aftermarket GPUs.
TLDR: It's not worth it to Apple to take on all the work of a custom card design just to screw with users. They honestly don't want to put that much work into it.
Actually its something Apple uses to do, the tcMP logic board was 100% done by apple, no reference design helping, while tis gpus where barely modified reference designs...
Lets see, also there is an need for a custom GPU design: feeding TB3's headers with DP video signals...
That would be an assumption. One that I've heard is not right.
The cMP logic board is actually pretty close to a reference design. Which is why you never saw anything like a SATA3 controller. Not reference.
Which is what I said. If Apple can solve it so they don't need headers (which it sounds like they're working on for eGPU anyway), that's the last blocker down.
I don't know if Apple will be able to fix things like not being able to use an Ultrafine 5k with an eGPU, but it sounds like they're certainly trying. And that would solve the same problem on the Mac Pro.
They dont need a custom gpu design to feed thunderbolt headers, they could just design something where you just plug one of the display ports into a thunderbolt io thing built into the computer.
The thing is though is that thunderbolt displays are a minority, DisplayPort and HDMI are still the squabbling kings. While i'm sure they will include thunderbolt display provisions, they are a tiny percentage of the displays people will want to plug in.
The thing is though is that thunderbolt displays are a minority, DisplayPort and HDMI are still the squabbling kings. While i'm sure they will include thunderbolt display provisions, they are a tiny percentage of the displays people will want to plug in.
I don't think Apple's going to do that. But you're right, they could. I just don't see anyone at Apple letting that out the door. They'd do custom cards before that.
Also as far as boot screen goes, didn't someone recently find out that boot screen is on board now, not the gpu? on newer machines.
I recently picked up a Dell T1600 for a friend to replace her old Core 2 Duo Lr/Ps machine. I gotta say the smaller form factor is nice but I believe for a pro machine, there should be at least 1 extra PCIE slot available. And until we can get more than 3 TB out of 2.5 drives we definitely need 3.5 drives.