Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[j1104638]

BTW there is a 4 core i7 Skylake CPU with slightly worse iGPU that fits in 13" TDP constraints http://ark.intel.com/products/90615/Intel-Core-i7-6822EQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-2_80-GHz.
[doublepost=1454845123][/doublepost]

...

What about dGPU?

 

[Cl0ud7]

What if AMD Polaris will be faster than GTX 950M? A lot faster. What if it will be possible in the second, higher end tier MBP 15 inch?

Why people are so attached to brand?

Polaris 10 will be around 1.8x faster than GtX 950M at same tdp.

 

[Devie]

Apple and Steve Jobs had particularly gone on record that we Apple have already carried out a lot of test in our lab to to check the feasibility and ease of use regrading touch screen laptops and it just turns out that it is a very uncomfortable and absolutely non-user friendly experience to have a touch screen on your laptop, with again your hands going on the keyboard and on the screen to touch it, for ease of use it just dosen't make sense. I don't think Apple is going to bring out their 2016 laptops with touch screen, and if anybody claims it, that's just downright false and rubbish !!

I've used laptops with touch screens. I like it. It's cool surfing with it like that on your lap. The real reason they won't do it is because iPad.

 

[AirdanMR]

Been silently reading this thread for what seems to be forever. Like most of you I follow every tidbit of information about the possible March event revealing of new MBP. I'm a graphics designer and I've been working on Mac since I started my business 7 years ago. I love the operating system and the build quality of Apple products, BUT... a few days ago a friend of mine came over with his shiny new DELL XPS 15 fully decked out, skylake edition. 512 PCIe SSD, 4K screen (what a panel!!) and 16 GB of Ram. 3,5 GHz Quad Skylake Processors and all you could wish for... honestly I just thought: WHY oh WHY must windows be SUCH CRAP? I hate windows with a passion but if I didn't I'd switch sides again in an instant. I'm mostly working with Adobe Creative Cloud anyways and the experience in there is similar. And boy is that thing fast.

I can't take any more waiting. March Event I AT LEAST want a definitive release date.

Windows crap? I guess you tried to say you don't like it, because in performance and stability is far away for being crap. Just the single fact that the last updates 8, 8.1 and 10 are suitable for really old computers and the update even give them better performance instead of making them obsolete, speaks for it self...

 

[Quasselstripper]

BTW there is a 4 core i7 Skylake CPU with slightly worse iGPU that fits in 13" TDP constraints http://ark.intel.com/products/90615/Intel-Core-i7-6822EQ-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-2_80-GHz.
[doublepost=1454845123][/doublepost]What about dGPU?

dGPU won't happen. As well as SSD as RAM.

 

[cerberusss]

and 10 are suitable for really old computers

Yeah I can attest that's true. I got an old desktop from a friend, for free. It has quality components (Asus stuff) but the CPU is slow (a Core Celeron, essentially a 1.8 GHz single-core thingy). I installed Windows 10 and with an SSD and 4 gigs of memory, it runs fine. Not fast, but fine. For a 9 year old PC, that's frankly amazing.

It's still Windows, though. It looks fantastic and then you install software. Most software does not fit into the Windows 10 look-and-feel, so it looks funny and out of place. And lots of property panels (for example Device Manager) also still use the old GUI. The platform doesn't look finished.

 

[koyoot]

Polaris 10 will be around 1.8x faster than GtX 950M at same tdp.

How do you know that? Do you have any specs, do you know how modified core will behave in DX11 and DX12 environments? Do you know how new cache system will affect performance and efficiency?

 

[Arthur75]

and is putting an anti virus still compulsory with windows ? don't want to go back to this stuff anyway .. enough of it at work, just the fact that it ask plenty of confirmation for shutting down is pissing me off to no end

 

[AirdanMR]

Yeah I can attest that's true. I got an old desktop from a friend, for free. It has quality components (Asus stuff) but the CPU is slow (a Core Celeron, essentially a 1.8 GHz single-core thingy). I installed Windows 10 and with an SSD and 4 gigs of memory, it runs fine. Not fast, but fine. For a 9 year old PC, that's frankly amazing.

It's still Windows, though. It looks fantastic and then you install software. Most software does not fit into the Windows 10 look-and-feel, so it looks funny and out of place. And lots of property panels (for example Device Manager) also still use the old GUI. The platform doesn't look finished.

Agree, they still have to do a lot of work with details and polish things, APPs, etc... But for raw performance and working usability is awesome in my opinion. APPs design looks great (movies, mail, music, calendar, pictures, etc...) But third party software will take a very long time until they adapt their UI to W10 design... it will be a very slow process. I'll be bitting the Apple rMBP until then.

 

[IndigoDesign]

Just to clarify my opinion, Windows may have improved over the past couple of years but for me it is still an incohesive mess full of clutter and doubtable design decision, also that they are still hanging onto the old windows kernel, still doing that registry and DLL disaster which DOES and WILL lead to a system slowdown the more files you accumulate is beyond me. I know that Mac OS has it's fair share of issues but the overall WORKING experience, and that is what I want my OS to do, WORK WITH and FOR me is beyond what Windows will ever achieve. I know, this is all personal experience and opinion so if you love Windows, good for you but my original point was that I see myself as "paying premium" for the privilege of using the Mac OS instead of Windows (or Linux, been toying with Ubuntu and Mint for a while on my secondary computer, not bad for everyday tasks...) as purely hardware wise, there are PLENTY of cost-effective alternatives to a MBP. Sadly that's no use for you if you favor Mac OS over Windows, which I do and I feel like there are many other people out there int he same boat with me.

 

[AirdanMR]

So basically it's not a crap per se, you just see it that way to justify your "paying premium" decision, ok, I just wanted to share some experience not just from me but a lot of people even Mac fans, but it seems pointless.

Sorry for the off-topic.

 

[TechZeke]

Apple and Steve Jobs had particularly gone on record that we Apple have already carried out a lot of test in our lab to to check the feasibility and ease of use regrading touch screen laptops and it just turns out that it is a very uncomfortable and absolutely non-user friendly experience to have a touch screen on your laptop, with again your hands going on the keyboard and on the screen to touch it, for ease of use it just dosen't make sense. I don't think Apple is going to bring out their 2016 laptops with touch screen, and if anybody claims it, that's just downright false and rubbish !!

I hear allot about people who use touch screens on PC laptops. With that said, it seems to me that people use the touch screen because the trackpads are almost always rubbish.

On my aunts crappy new HP, we HAD to use the touch screen when I was helping her with excel because the trackpad was unusable. It was actually faster to move your arm all the way to the screen than it was to try and use the trackpad. I don't feel envious of touch screen PC laptops at all.

 

[snc]

Just to clarify my opinion, Windows may have improved over the past couple of years but for me it is still an incohesive mess full of clutter and doubtable design decision, also that they are still hanging onto the old windows kernel, still doing that registry and DLL disaster which DOES and WILL lead to a system slowdown the more files you accumulate is beyond me. I know that Mac OS has it's fair share of issues but the overall WORKING experience, and that is what I want my OS to do, WORK WITH and FOR me is beyond what Windows will ever achieve. I know, this is all personal experience and opinion so if you love Windows, good for you but my original point was that I see myself as "paying premium" for the privilege of using the Mac OS instead of Windows (or Linux, been toying with Ubuntu and Mint for a while on my secondary computer, not bad for everyday tasks...) as purely hardware wise, there are PLENTY of cost-effective alternatives to a MBP. Sadly that's no use for you if you favor Mac OS over Windows, which I do and I feel like there are many other people out there int he same boat with me.

Yeah maybe but for sure Safari is the worst browser in the world. Twitter bug is just a joke

 

[TechZeke]

Just to clarify my opinion, Windows may have improved over the past couple of years but for me it is still an incohesive mess full of clutter and doubtable design decision, also that they are still hanging onto the old windows kernel, still doing that registry and DLL disaster which DOES and WILL lead to a system slowdown the more files you accumulate is beyond me. I know that Mac OS has it's fair share of issues but the overall WORKING experience, and that is what I want my OS to do, WORK WITH and FOR me is beyond what Windows will ever achieve. I know, this is all personal experience and opinion so if you love Windows, good for you but my original point was that I see myself as "paying premium" for the privilege of using the Mac OS instead of Windows (or Linux, been toying with Ubuntu and Mint for a while on my secondary computer, not bad for everyday tasks...) as purely hardware wise, there are PLENTY of cost-effective alternatives to a MBP. Sadly that's no use for you if you favor Mac OS over Windows, which I do and I feel like there are many other people out there int he same boat with me.

So basically it's not a crap per se, you just see it that way to justify your "paying premium" decision, ok, I just wanted to share some experience not just from me but a lot of people even Mac fans, but it seems pointless.

Sorry for the off-topic.

For me, I haven't seen anything to prove there's a so called Apple Tax. Yes, the state of the current Mac line is overpriced right now simply because of the lack of a proper update.

I'm not sure why PC manufacturers get a free pass on expensive well-made hardware but Apple doesn't.

Take for example the new 12" MacBook. People shout overpriced but if you look at the Surface Pro they are comparable. $1300 for i5/256 SSD/8GB of RAM SP4. The 12" is a Core M/256/8Gb for $1300. Don't forget that you still need to buy a type over, which brings the SP4 to $1430 which should more than account for coreM/i5 price difference. Don't even get me started on the Surface Book, XPS 27, or Razer Blade 14.

Windows 10 is a nice OS. With that said, at least when Apple releases a new OS and new device they actually work as advertised out of the box which is more than I can say for Microsoft.

 

[cerberusss]

I would love a removal of most of the bezel on the 15" and thus a pretty significant reduction of the laptop's overall footprint.

That would look awesome. This is how the Dell XPS 15 does it:

(Source: Forbes)

That said, I think the current rMBP gets warm pretty quickly. I really don't like how the keyboard warms up beneath my fingertips when it gets any action whatsoever. So on one hand, a thinner bezel would look awesome but on the other hand, I hope it doesn't mean a smaller and hotter body.

 

[Exile714]

For me, I haven't seen anything to prove there's a so called Apple Tax. Yes, the state of the current Mac line is overpriced right now simply because of the lack of a proper update.

I'm not sure why PC manufacturers get a free pass on expensive well-made hardware but Apple doesn't.

Take for example the new 12" MacBook. People shout overpriced but if you look at the Surface Pro they are comparable. $1300 for i5/256 SSD/8GB of RAM SP4. The 12" is a Core M/256/8Gb for $1300. Don't forget that you still need to buy a type over, which brings the SP4 to $1430 which should more than account for coreM/i5 price difference. Don't even get me started on the Surface Book, XPS 27, or Razer Blade 14.

Windows 10 is a nice OS. With that said, at least when Apple releases a new OS and new device they actually work as advertised out of the box which is more than I can say for Microsoft.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which may be the case as I've never owned an OSX device, but doesn't OSX come with a bunch of core software for free? Like Pages? Windows makes you pay separately for Word. Also, Windows makes you upgrade your OS version to get the full feature set, which I don't think is something OSX does.

I always imagined core software accounted for some of the price differential between Windows and OSX.

 

[cerberusss]

The new Macbook Pro will have:

• Finger Print sensor built right there where you open the Macbook with your finger

If they introduce Touch ID on the rMBP, I don't think it'll be on the lid. When I read this Guardian article:
Apple says iPhone 'Error 53' is to protect customers' security
then that would mean whenever the top lid is replaced, the bottom would also need to be replaced because if you replace the Touch ID sensor, you also have to replace the "secure enclave. That means replacing the logic board because the "secure enclave" is soldered on (on the CPU die or in the CPU package).

But then again, Apple has been moving toward devices that are not repairable but instead are completely replaced. And the spot you mentioned is really the best spot for Touch ID. The top bezel will of course need to be as big as the touch ID sensor.

Great post, BTW.
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doesn't OSX come with a bunch of core software for free? Like Pages? Windows makes you pay separately for Word. Also, Windows makes you upgrade your OS version to get the full feature set, which I don't think is something OSX does.

It's true that you get Pages, Keynote and Numbers. They're fine as far as I'm concerned, my use is not very advanced.

However I've noticed that as soon as you exchange documents with anyone, you get MS Office documents. For me, that means timesheets from customers and sending my resume to recruiters. Im- and exporting MS Office documents into the standard OS X software means it'll make small changes to layout, fonts, etc. and that small hassle is enough to make me pay for MS Office.

So yes, they come free. But I don't use them.

 

[Wowereit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, which may be the case as I've never owned an OSX device, but doesn't OSX come with a bunch of core software for free? Like Pages? Windows makes you pay separately for Word. Also, Windows makes you upgrade your OS version to get the full feature set, which I don't think is something OSX does.

I always imagined core software accounted for some of the price differential between Windows and OSX.

The OS versions (Home / Pro / Enterprise) are not that much of a difference. Mostly some domain and administration stuff for businesses and Enterprise is just provided via volume licence, so you can't get it as a consumer.

The core tools of OS X are a great basic equipment and enough for the normal user, but for heavy lifting MS Office is far ahead. Especially Numbers is a bad joke compared to Excel and Word comes with a lot of useful features, which might be overkill for 99% of the userbase, but are needed by some professionals. For presentations I prefer Keynote over Powerpoint, can't give an objective reason, but it "just works" for me.

 

[AirdanMR]

For me, I haven't seen anything to prove there's a so called Apple Tax. Yes, the state of the current Mac line is overpriced right now simply because of the lack of a proper update.

I'm not sure why PC manufacturers get a free pass on expensive well-made hardware but Apple doesn't.

Take for example the new 12" MacBook. People shout overpriced but if you look at the Surface Pro they are comparable. $1300 for i5/256 SSD/8GB of RAM SP4. The 12" is a Core M/256/8Gb for $1300. Don't forget that you still need to buy a type over, which brings the SP4 to $1430 which should more than account for coreM/i5 price difference. Don't even get me started on the Surface Book, XPS 27, or Razer Blade 14.

Windows 10 is a nice OS. With that said, at least when Apple releases a new OS and new device they actually work as advertised out of the box which is more than I can say for Microsoft.

Well.. base models use to be a reasonable price (still a bit overpriced) given Apple's caché and well designed products, but upgrades special ram and hd are insanely overpriced. For example at same base configuration rMBP 15 is 500$ more expensive than Dell XPS 15. You pay more for worse CPU (until skylake), less screen resolution and iGPU instead the Skylake, 4k and GTX 960M on the Dell.

Did OS X really work as advertised? Because for what I've seen here in macrumors forum, the best upgrade was two gens ago, and Yosemite and El Capitan had slowled performance and introduced a lot of bugs. I would understand that if Apple had free hardware support like microsoft does, but with closed hardware I don't really understand how they can't optimice theire OS for their hardware (1% of market) while windows can do it for the 99% of hardware components in the market, included macbooks 12 which are said to perform better under windows 10 using boot camp...

Edit: anyway, my point was and still is that W10 is faaar away from being "crap". But the luxury factor from Apple is a reality too.

 

[IndigoDesign]

anyway, my point was and still is that W10 is faaar away from being "crap". But the luxury factor from Apple is a reality too.

Well "luxury" is not what I'm in for. I just noticed that my productivity is way better in Mac Os than it is with Windows. But that's just me and does not have to be reflective of anyone else's opinion, obviously!

 

[AirdanMR]

Well "luxury" is not what I'm in for. I just noticed that my productivity is way better in Mac Os than it is with Windows. But that's just me and does not have to be reflective of anyone else's opinion, obviously!

Maybe I missundertood the premium point, sorry. Of course if you work better go for it, is that simple, I just don't feel confortable with no-reason and free-hating coments about windows (or linux) or other laptop brands in this threads which should be at least a little bit informative for other users.

Hopefully I will be working with OS X in March-June and I could have a better opinion of the OS X by then.

 

[TechZeke]

Well.. base models use to be a reasonable price (still a bit overpriced) given Apple's caché and well designed products, but upgrades special ram and hd are insanely overpriced. For example at same base configuration rMBP 15 is 500$ more expensive than Dell XPS 15. You pay more for worse CPU (until skylake), less screen resolution and iGPU instead the Skylake, 4k and GTX 960M on the Dell.

Did OS X really work as advertised? Because for what I've seen here in macrumors forum, the best upgrade was two gens ago, and Yosemite and El Capitan had slowled performance and introduced a lot of bugs. I would understand that if Apple had free hardware support like microsoft does, but with closed hardware I don't really understand how they can't optimice theire OS for their hardware (1% of market) while windows can do it for the 99% of hardware components in the market, included macbooks 12 which are said to perform better under windows 10 using boot camp...

Edit: anyway, my point was and still is that W10 is faaar away from being "crap". But the luxury factor from Apple is a reality too.

What are you talking about? The $1500 XPS 15 model comes with 8GB of RAM, a 1080p display and smaller battery. Plus, the high-end haswell CPUs in the 15" rMBP are still faster than the baseline Skylake CPU in the Dell. On Dell you are also getting slower storage and noticeably worse trackpad.

Again, I've already acknowledged that the 15" rMBP doesn't make sense right now until it gets a proper skylake update. If Apple had done a Skylake update before Dell and we were doing this kind of comparison, there'd be ****-storm about being unfair to Dell.

Also, basing issues off a forum is like going to a hospital and saying "man, the population must be very sick". I've had zero issues with El Capitan running Betas, while my new gaming PC has had 3 BSODs running W10 in a month. The Surface Book is also a complete mess. I'd say the new 12" MB worked as advertised out of the box.

 

[AirdanMR]

De

What are you talking about? The $1500 XPS 15 model comes with 8GB of RAM, a 1080p display and smaller battery. Plus, the high-end haswell CPUs in the 15" rMBP are still faster than the baseline Skylake CPU in the Dell. On Dell you are also getting slower storage and noticeably worse trackpad.

Again, I've already acknowledged that the 15" rMBP doesn't make sense right now until it gets a proper skylake update. If Apple had done a Skylake update before Dell and we were doing this kind of comparison, there'd be ****-storm about being unfair to Dell.

Also, basing issues off a forum is like going to a hospital and saying "man, the population must be very sick". I've had zero issues with El Capitan running Betas, while my new gaming PC has had 3 BSODs running W10 in a month. The Surface Book is also a complete mess. I'd say the new 12" MB worked as advertised out of the box.

That 500$ difference was for the same configuration... 4k / retina and both with 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM upgrades. There was no point in comparing the 1080p 8gb vs retina 16gb. Of course it's not fair, because the rMBP is outdated, and still more expensive.

It's not like I went through all the problems threads, just overall opinions, asking friends and polls like this one that based my opinion. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/worst-overall-version-of-os-x.1844248/

BSOD are never fault of windows, but bad hardware choices / or wrong drivers instalation by the user. Did you built it by your self? I've built several, for me, familiars and friends and never had one. If you want to message me in private maybe I could help you with that one =)

 

[TechZeke]

De


That 500$ difference was for the same configuration... 4k / retina and both with 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM upgrades. There was no point in comparing the 1080p 8gb vs retina 16gb. Of course it's not fair, because the rMBP is outdated, and still more expensive.

It's not like I went through all the problems threads, just overall opinions, asking friends and polls like this one that based my opinion. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/worst-overall-version-of-os-x.1844248/

BSOD are never fault of windows, but bad hardware choices / or wrong drivers instalation by the user. Did you built it by your self? I've built several, for me, familiars and friends and never had one. If you want to message me in private maybe I could help you with that one =)

I went to the Dell website and still can't find this $500 difference, but I digress. This part of the discussion is moot anyway, since we both agree that the rMBP is outdated and thus overpriced. Not sure why we are still discussing this.

So you haven't actually been using OS X, but basing off other people's opinion. You can't base off a forum, in-general. The majority of the people who joined the forum did so because they are having issues. A forum is simply not a good representation. The latest version of OS X is also always going to have the most bugs. With that said, I also haven't heard of any issues about OS X from my friends and colleagues either, since we are throwing anecdotes around. A colleage of mine did buy an XPS 13 out of my recommendation and did have a few driver issues with W10, but other than that its been pretty quiet.

Sorry, but I've seen Surface Pros, Books, PCs, and my iMac BSOD on W7/8/10 and I've been using W10 since the technical preview. More than likely, I suspect something got damaged/misaligned/unseated when my house got broken into and my gaming PC was turned over. Its not like I'm saying W10 is a bad OS, but it's not perfect just like OS X isn't perfect. I've seen way more game-breaking issues with Windows 10 than I have seen with OS X. Oh, and Yes I build PCs myself. However, since we don't know each other's experience and just out of general principle I'll choose not to be the condescending ass-hole.

 

[maclaw21]

Recognizing that prognostications are anything but certain, what do you all think is the most likely timeline for the new MBP? I'm particularly interested in the 13".