Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[Aurora Wright]

Article from 2014...

Are you familiar with the latest versions of the Bluetooth protocol?

Do you think Apple engineers operate at the level of cheap, low-cost Chinese engineers building Bluetooth products for quick sale on dx.com?

You know Apple are into a bit of unified hardware/software design, yeah?

Afaik there have been no changes in the audio department, and the issue is that the audio is lossy (usually you use lossy files already, so it's subjected to a second lossy conversion on the fly). Unless Apple comes up with a better way to do BT audio, it will be OK for most people but they won't be able to replace wired for pros.
DX has nothing to do with that, do you think the article talked about Chinese products? haha

 

[Oppenheim]

Afaik there have been no changes in the audio department, and the issue is that the audio is lossy (usually you use lossy files already, so it's subjected to a second lossy conversion on the fly). Unless Apple comes up with a better way to do BT audio, it will be OK for most people but they won't be able to replace wired for pros.
DX has nothing to do with that, do you think the article talked about Chinese products? haha

"lossy audio"? What?

The "audio department"?

You know what lossless digital transmission is, right?

You do realise that the top tier headphones that the "pros" you talk about use work off of 6mm jacks, right?

Good God. You seem to think that the latest version of Bluetooth chips available to manufacturers operate like walkie-talkies from the 1980s.

 

[Aurora Wright]

"lossy audio"? What?

You know what lossless digital transmission is, right?

Good God. You seem to think that the latest version of Bluetooth chips available to manufacturers operate like walkie-talkies from the 1980s.

OK, let's see some documentation on a BT lossless audio protocol.

 

[1=1?]

lucky for you sound doesn't propagate in space, not sure about jupiter's atmosphere though..

i remember the old days with the white macbook and gma950 graphics.. my god that thing sucked. youtube and everything flash were making my ears bleed. it got somehow better with html5 though.
what's your current model btw?

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...l-graphics-mid-2014-retina-display-specs.html

 

[Oppenheim]

OK, let's see some documentation on a BT lossless audio protocol.

You're the one making the claims that Bluetooth is "lossy". You need to read up on what's been done since the article you posted. You also need to read up on digital transmission and how it's different from analog transmission. Then you can look at lossless and lossy transmission. When you're done there, you can look up the Bluetooth protocol. The devices in that consumer article you cited were probably using 2012 Bluetooth technology at best. Even then, the engineers may have been using cheaper chips and/or not using all the features. So it's hardly surprising that the devices listed would be far from Apple's high standards.

All I know is that Apple Air Buds look amazing. I can't see any "lossy" issues with them... Lol. Nor are there these apparent "latency" (another favourite of the 3.5mm Luddites) issues.

 

[whiteonline]

OK, let's see some documentation on a BT lossless audio protocol.

You're the one making the claims that Bluetooth is "lossy". You need to read up on what's been done since the article you posted. You also need to read up on digital transmission and how it's different from analog transmission. Then you can look at lossless and lossy transmission. When you're done there, you can look up the Bluetooth protocol. The devices in that consumer article you cited were probably using 2012 Bluetooth technology at best. Even then, the engineers may have been using cheaper chips and/or not using all the features. So it's hardly surprising that the devices listed would be far from Apple's high standards.

All I know is that Apple Air Buds look amazing. I can't see any "lossy" issues with them... Lol. Nor are there these apparent "latency" (another favourite of the 3.5mm Luddites) issues.

Chill out y'all.
Aurora, read up on aptX, which is a lossless bluetooth audio codec. It is supported in OSX, but not iOS for some reason (come on Apple...). aptX also supports a low-latency operations as well.
Of course, the limitation is needing aptX support on both source and receiver to enjoy the benefit...

 

[Exile714]

Everyone keeps talking about USB-C only being problematic, but nobody's talking specifics. How will it affect YOU?

Here's my current setup:
2 External HDDs using Micro USB to USB-A
1 USB-A Gaming Mouse
1 Drawing Pad using Mini USB to USB-A
1 Time Capsule Router which needs Ethernet for the inevitable setup issues where I jack up my WiFi
1 USB-A Thumb Drive (I need at least one, just go with it)
GoPro which connects to either Mini USB or via Micro SD
iPhones which connect via Lightning to USB-A
DSLR Camera Mini USB to USB-A or CF Card

I think those are my essentials.

Ok, so here's what happens when/if my new Skylake MBP goes USB-C only:

Usage Scenario 1: At home
I need a USB-C dock with USB-A and Ethernet. Easy, done, let's move on

Usage Scenario 2: Remote photo work
I'll need an adapter for my GoPro and my DSLR Camera so I can use the mini and micro USB ports. Probably a USB-A to USB-C adapter. Just one will do fine. This will also work with my HDDs if I need more storage in this scenario.

Usage Scenario 3: Remote other work
I need a mouse remotely, as I never travel with my drawing pad. An adapter is too fragile in that case, so I'll need a new mouse. Wireless if I can find ultra-low latency (for photo work this is non-negotiable) or a USB-C mouse.

I'll need to upgrade my thumb drive, which is disappointing. I'll WANT to upgrade my HDDs which is something I'll do anyway. I'll also need to invest in an external USB-C Blu Ray reader/writer but that's inevitable since I currently have one in my desktop which will be replaced by the MBP for my daily driver.

So, I need:
1 dock
1 USB-A to USB-C adapter
A new mouse
A new thumb drive
A new external HDD
A new Blu Ray reader/writer

It's not the end of the world, but I'm looking at probably $300-400 worth of peripheral upgrades to make a USB-C only MBP work for me. How about everyone else?

 

[ssong]

Chill out y'all.
Aurora, read up on aptX, which is a lossless bluetooth audio codec. It is supported in OSX, but not iOS for some reason (come on Apple...). aptX also supports a low-latency operations as well.
Of course, the limitation is needing aptX support on both source and receiver to enjoy the benefit...

I was reading up on that and I remember that a few years back aptX was championed as the codec to save BT, didn't see it be picked up that much. But I guess times have changed indeed. I know I'm being greedy now but if Apple take away the 3.5mm jack I hope they pack in one of those AirPods in

 

[whiteonline]

I was reading up on that and I remember that a few years back aptX was championed as the codec to save BT, didn't see it be picked up that much. But I guess times have changed indeed. I know I'm being greedy now but if Apple take away the 3.5mm jack I hope they pack in one of those AirPods in

Ya, it's been around for quite a few years. Not sure why Apple hasn't included it in iOS, but I can't help but assume the worst: they will implement their own proprietary codec that will be only available on branded and licensed devices.

 

[killawat]

So, I need:
1 dock
1 USB-A to USB-C adapter
A new mouse
A new thumb drive
A new external HDD
A new Blu Ray reader/writer

It's not the end of the world, but I'm looking at probably $300-400 worth of peripheral upgrades to make a USB-C only MBP work for me. How about everyone else?

Wait , what? You don't have to mix up your entire workflow. Keep your old peripherals and skip the adapters, a simple cable or two and maybe a hub is all you need. Monoprice got the hookups:

 

[vatter69]

Ya, it's been around for quite a few years. Not sure why Apple hasn't included it in iOS, but I can't help but assume the worst: they will implement their own proprietary codec that will be only available on branded and licensed devices.

Aptx also adds about 40ms latency into the stream. Royally blows when watching Netflix etc. I now own BT headsets without that crap.

 

[TRDGT4Writer]

I am going to tell the truth I love my MB 12" I bought the other day. I really hope Apple does the same thinness for the 2016 rMBP's!

I hope not, it would be hell to have only ONE port. Besides, that would mean professionals would move to PCs despite the QuickTime fiasco.

The thinness would kill me as I don't want to have 'The World's Thinnest Paper Laptop', I just want a laptop that'll help me be ready for anything...

 

[Uni Grad]

Everyone keeps talking about USB-C only being problematic, but nobody's talking specifics. How will it affect YOU?

Here's my current setup:
2 External HDDs using Micro USB to USB-A
1 USB-A Gaming Mouse
1 Drawing Pad using Mini USB to USB-A
1 Time Capsule Router which needs Ethernet for the inevitable setup issues where I jack up my WiFi
1 USB-A Thumb Drive (I need at least one, just go with it)
GoPro which connects to either Mini USB or via Micro SD
iPhones which connect via Lightning to USB-A
DSLR Camera Mini USB to USB-A or CF Card

I think those are my essentials.

Ok, so here's what happens when/if my new Skylake MBP goes USB-C only:

Usage Scenario 1: At home
I need a USB-C dock with USB-A and Ethernet. Easy, done, let's move on

Usage Scenario 2: Remote photo work
I'll need an adapter for my GoPro and my DSLR Camera so I can use the mini and micro USB ports. Probably a USB-A to USB-C adapter. Just one will do fine. This will also work with my HDDs if I need more storage in this scenario.

Usage Scenario 3: Remote other work
I need a mouse remotely, as I never travel with my drawing pad. An adapter is too fragile in that case, so I'll need a new mouse. Wireless if I can find ultra-low latency (for photo work this is non-negotiable) or a USB-C mouse.

I'll need to upgrade my thumb drive, which is disappointing. I'll WANT to upgrade my HDDs which is something I'll do anyway. I'll also need to invest in an external USB-C Blu Ray reader/writer but that's inevitable since I currently have one in my desktop which will be replaced by the MBP for my daily driver.

So, I need:
1 dock
1 USB-A to USB-C adapter
A new mouse
A new thumb drive
A new external HDD
A new Blu Ray reader/writer

It's not the end of the world, but I'm looking at probably $300-400 worth of peripheral upgrades to make a USB-C only MBP work for me. How about everyone else?

The change isnt gonna hit me hard. A $17 USB C - USB A cable adapter from Google is all I need. Could get it for cheaper, but seeing as how multiple companies (even Apple) have got USB C cables wrong...I'll play it safe and go with Google (they have a perfect track record with USB C).

 

[doitdada]

Chill out y'all.
Aurora, read up on aptX, which is a lossless bluetooth audio codec. It is supported in OSX, but not iOS for some reason (come on Apple...). aptX also supports a low-latency operations as well.
Of course, the limitation is needing aptX support on both source and receiver to enjoy the benefit...

Links that prove your concepts or it didn't happen. This is the Internet and if you can't provide documentation, then you are the looser living in a fantasy. I own aptX products, and yes, they can't replace wires or even AirPlay at the moment...

 

[Oppenheim]

Aptx also adds about 40ms latency into the stream. Royally blows when watching Netflix etc. I now own BT headsets without that crap.

I haven't seen any scientific latency analysis.

I'd like to see an analysis of the time it takes for from when the CPU requests the audio to be played to when the physical sound wave hits your inner ear. With the most up-to-date Bluetooth transceiver. And without one - i.e. using current 3.5mm jack technology.

I can't see how it's important or perceptible.
[doublepost=1462133674][/doublepost]

The change isnt gonna hit me hard. A $17 USB C - USB A cable adapter from Google is all I need. Could get it for cheaper, but seeing as how multiple companies (even Apple) have got USB C cables wrong...I'll play it safe and go with Google (they have a perfect track record with USB C).

I bought two USB-C to USB3 dongles for £5.50 including delivery about 3 weeks ago. Handy things to have. Not just for my new MBP.

 

[nicovh]

I bought two USB-C to USB3 dongles for £5.50 including delivery about 3 weeks ago. Handy things to have. Not just for my new MBP.

I like that this comes from the same guy that says that Apple is a premium brand. And people who dislike the price and expensive accessories, are not the right kind of people for Apple products.
Yet you buy some dirt cheap, chinese childlabor cable hahaha. I just think it's ironic.

 

[Damstas]

I really hope Apple will adopt 802.11ad or something similar for the Macbook Pro. I will certainly not purchase the new MBPs if the only update is the Skylake chips and added/updated connectors. I'm waiting for innovations. Wireless charging etc.

 

[Oppenheim]

I like that this comes from the same guy that says that Apple is a premium brand. And people who dislike the price and expensive accessories, are not the right kind of people for Apple products.
Yet you buy some dirt cheap, chinese childlabor cable hahaha. I just think it's ironic.

Cheap Chinese labour? Please start another thread if you want to discuss that one.

I needed a USB-C to USB3 dongle for my Android. I bought one on Amazon.

The Apple I was not designed for compatibility. I appreciate that if I want to interface my Apple with other people's stuff, I might need to buy an adapter every now and then.

 

[Uni Grad]

For all those saying that Apple will replace lightning port w/ USB C, how is that possible. USB C is freatly thicker the lightning, and as Apple isnt stopping with thinnovation, I doubt well see that change happen. What I do see happening is a lightning cable to usbc charger brick for iPhones.

 

[argentum47]

Chill out y'all.
Aurora, read up on aptX, which is a lossless bluetooth audio codec. It is supported in OSX, but not iOS for some reason (come on Apple...). aptX also supports a low-latency operations as well.
Of course, the limitation is needing aptX support on both source and receiver to enjoy the benefit...

aptX is not lossless. It's just marketed to be as 'transparent' as a lossless codec (and marketed pretty well to the point where many people believe it's lossless when it's not). See http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/how-good-is-bluetooth-audio-at-its-best , one of the very few proper measurements on the performance of aptX. aptX is also not unarguably better than SBC either; it gets full spectrum representation at the expense of added phase noise.

In any case, a real pro or a real audiophile would rather use an external USB DAC over the 3.5 mm port or bluetooth anyways, so they'd not really care whether the 3.5 mm jack is there or not.

 

[kevinkyoo]

Eh, at this point, the hype for the MBP has kind of settled for me. I'm expecting a lot of unnecessary trade-offs. It's funny - I thought at first that Apple would get it right with the new MBP's, but seeing as how they handled their recent products (And none of which I said, GREAT PRODUCT APPLE (Except the Mini 4 and 2015 MBP's)), I think I'll probably keep my 15" 2015 MBP and hold off to see if they'll release a 14" rMB or just get a 13" MBA.

 

[Aditya_S]

What are the chances they release a quad core 13" MacBook Pro? I would really love it if they did as the longevity of the devices would be greatly increased.

 

[shareef777]

What are the chances they release a quad core 13" MacBook Pro? I would really love it if they did as the longevity of the devices would be greatly increased.

0%. There's no quad core Intel processor that fits the thermal envelope of the current 13" chassis, let alone the upcoming thinner one.

 

[volcomvenom]

41 more days guys!

 

[vatter69]

I haven't seen any scientific latency analysis.

I'd like to see an analysis of the time it takes for from when the CPU requests the audio to be played to when the physical sound wave hits your inner ear. With the most up-to-date Bluetooth transceiver. And without one - i.e. using current 3.5mm jack technology.

I can't see how it's important or perceptible.
[doublepost=1462133674][/doublepost]

I bought two USB-C to USB3 dongles for £5.50 including delivery about 3 weeks ago. Handy things to have. Not just for my new MBP.

Im watching videos in the gym with nplayer which thankfully lets me adjust audio latency. 40ms is what i have to select with aptx enabled headphones to have lipsync. No such option in Netflix. Its very annoying.