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Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

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pegamoos said:
let's not mistake watercooling with heatpipes.
there are several differences between the two, but in general, watercooling is when you circulate water with a pump and then exchange heat with air through a radiator and a fan.
with heatpipes, afaik, you have a phase change from liquid to gas (evaporation) and condensation through a radiator (more or less like a home fridge) but without the need for a pump to circulate the liquid hence can be fitted in smaller devices.
i bet the nokia 950xl has something similar to the latter.
I remember the sp4 pro has something like the above, where they dissipate part of the heat through conduction with the chassis, reducing the need for a fan.
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Wouldn't the rMBP benefit from such an approach as well though? My biggest issue with laptops is that the heat dissipation on most of them is pretty bad and after long use my hand feels really crispy :( would love to see Apple take a crack at this and see what turns up. Based on their track record of making sucks things great, I'm sure it would be better than what's available on the market.
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Dutchdude99 said:
Nope, screen's too small. If they release a 14" version and make it just a little bit cheaper, I might consider it.
Core m7 with 256 GB for €1649 would be the same price as the 13" pro, I'm willing to pay that.
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I'm still not 100% sold on the rMB but I'd consider that option as well. I think it's like this.. For decades people thought 'made in China' meant it was copied and sucked but now there are some decent solutions and products coming out from it but (I personally at least) still can't shake the stigma of being 'made in China'. 'Ultrabooks' got their bad name from the day when we had netbooks and mobile processors don't scream confident performance either... So I'm still uneasy but I heard good stuff about them so who knows..
 
ssong said:
Wouldn't the rMBP benefit from such an approach as well though? My biggest issue with laptops is that the heat dissipation on most of them is pretty bad and after long use my hand feels really crispy :( would love to see Apple take a crack at this and see what turns up. Based on their track record of making sucks things great, I'm sure it would be better than what's available on the market.
Click to expand...

A heat-pipe system based on thermal dissipation would make the Pros fanless. But this can only be done with a 15W processor. So most likely only the 13" would have this.
Heres the problem. Apple products are made of Aluminum, as we all know...and Al has terrible heat dissipation properties. SP4 uses magnesium - which is really great at dissipating heat.
So éither Apple switches ovr to Mg or they "innovate" once ägäin.
 
I also play WoW, though a lot less than I did when I was without kids. I was able to play at "normal" screen resolution (pixel doubled, not at retina) with about 40-60 fps - admittedly, all the settings were turned to "low", but it worked fine for that not-very-graphically-challenging game.

So, for my needs, the rMB worked pretty well. Light, easy to carry, great though small screen, it chewed through computational analysis no problem, played my favorite game ok. People think this is a 1.1GHz computer, it's really a 2.2GHz computer with a low-power mode for when you're not using that much processor power.

You play WoW on a Macbook? That is seriously interesting to me; I have a ten year old Mac Pro and a six year old MBA and intend to replace them both with a single laptop that will last for a good few years and amongst other things play that game with a reasonable level of performance. I had assumed that I would need a dGPU (blizzard suggest that even the M370X is not quite at the standard for the next expansion) so I'm fidgeting around waiting to see if they put a Polaris chip in the new MBP but maybe I don't need that?

Would love to hear your thoughts, what do you think would be OK for your next computer, I'm guessing something with the Iris Pro 580?
 
new prices, but this year we will have some nice ios+macos systems. i hope with little bugs
From what i saw i really feel Apple needed some time like 2015-2016 to come with some nice products with os for what makes Apple a premium brand and its own way.
And next year or years, i hope in max 2 years because i really want one to own, a new current prototype to became a real thing
 
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Uni Grad said:
A heat-pipe system based on thermal dissipation would make the Pros fanless. But this can only be done with a 15W processor. So most likely only the 13" would have this.
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That's some amazingly circular logic you've got there.

Premise 1: Heat pipes mean MBP doesn't need fans.
Premise 2: A fanless MBP must have a 15W processor.
Conclusion: MBP with heat pipe will be 15W processor.

But premise 2 is based on the assumption that the MBP uses the same heat dissipation technology as the rMB, which doesn't use heat pipes. Without a heat pipe you are restricted to 15W, but because heat pipes work better than fans you could theoretically have a fanless MBP with a 45W processor.

Do you see why your argument is invalid? It doesn't matter what technology Apple uses for heat dissipation as long as they adequately cool the components, so heat pipes are just as likely with any TDP as long as they can get the technology to work.

Also, magnesium may dissipate heat better than aluminum, but it can't conduct heat as well and that's the value we should be concerned with. Plus, aluminum is far sturdier.
 
Serban said:
new prices, but this year we will have some nice ios+macos systems. i hope with little bugs
From what i saw i really feel Apple needed some time like 2015-2016 to come with some nice products with os for what makes Apple a premium brand and its own way.
And next year or years, i hope in max 2 years because i really want one to own, a new current prototype to became a real thing
Click to expand...
New prices? Lower or higher? :D
 
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Uni Grad said:
Apple products are made of Aluminum, as we all know...and Al has terrible heat dissipation properties. SP4 uses magnesium - which is really great at dissipating heat.
So éither Apple switches ovr to Mg or they "innovate" once ägäin.
Click to expand...
it's actually the opposite, Al has higher thermal conductivity than Mg.
but i understand what you mean, an Al enclosure will feel warmer to the touch than a plastic one (Mg is not that far off actually), because it's 'spreading' the heat from the hot components to the colder regions better.
from a functional pov the metal enclosure is better, keeps the temperatures in the chips lower.
from an ergonomic pov a warm palmrest is not that nice to have.

besides, Mg is lighter than Al, but it's more complicated to machine like they do the current models. i don't know if they'll switch to it anytime soon, but it would surely be an impressive feature.
 
pegamoos said:
it's actually the opposite, Al has higher thermal conductivity than Mg.
but i understand what you mean, an Al enclosure will feel warmer to the touch than a plastic one (Mg is not that far off actually), because it's 'spreading' the heat from the hot components to the colder regions better.
from a functional pov the metal enclosure is better, keeps the temperatures in the chips lower.
from an ergonomic pov a warm palmrest is not that nice to have.

besides, Mg is lighter than Al, but it's more complicated to machine like they do the current models. i don't know if they'll switch to it anytime soon, but it would surely be an impressive feature.
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I'm wondering if they'd make the switch to that rumoured ceramic compound? Supposedly next year's iPhones are due to get them no? Why not sure it of this year with Macs
 
Exile714 said:
Also, magnesium may dissipate heat better than aluminum, but it can't conduct heat as well and that's the value we should be concerned with. Plus, aluminum is far sturdier.
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heat conduction and dissipation aren't two different properties, it's the same physical phenomenon.
Al is better than Mg (around 200 vs 150 W/mK).

Al sturdier than Mg is also not completely true, it depends on the specific alloys, current laptop use a relatively soft AA6060 alloy. Some Mg alloys can be better than that, but it all depends on the little details.
let's not forget that Al is easily anodysed (rose gold anyone?), not sure if that's feasible with Mg.
 
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pegamoos said:
heat conduction and dissipation aren't two different properties, it's the same physical phenomenon.
Al is better than Mg (around 200 vs 150 W/mK).

Al sturdier than Mg is also not completely true, it depends on the specific alloys, current laptop use a relatively soft AA6060 alloy. Some Mg alloys can be better than that, but it all depends on the little details.
let's not forget that Al is easily anodysed (rose gold anyone?), not sure if that's feasible with Mg.
Click to expand...
so true. the only better al than any Mg is the 7000 series but will make big devices like macbook pro heavier
 
pegamoos said:
heat conduction and dissipation aren't two different properties, it's the same physical phenomenon.
Al is better than Mg (around 200 vs 150 W/mK).

Al sturdier than Mg is also not completely true, it depends on the specific alloys, current laptop use a relatively soft AA6060 alloy. Some Mg alloys can be better than that, but it all depends on the little details.
let's not forget that Al is easily anodysed (rose gold anyone?), not sure if that's feasible with Mg.
Click to expand...

Conduction is the movement of heat energy from one component to another, or rather from one location on the aluminum chassis to the rest of it. Dissipation is the loss of heat energy from the system/chassis to the outside environment. Magnesium dissipates heat well, but the heat generally stays within the area where it is generated until it is dissipated.
 
If the 13" rMBP goes 15W, they better include an i7 processor as the base model with Iris 540. That will allow the machine to get thinner.
 
Exile714 said:
Conduction is the movement of heat energy from one component to another, or rather from one location on the aluminum chassis to the rest of it. Dissipation is the loss of heat energy from the system/chassis to the outside environment. Magnesium dissipates heat well, but the heat generally stays within the area where it is generated until it is dissipated.
Click to expand...
I wish i'd smoked my thermodynamics books too, back in the days.
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cmChimera said:
According to Apple, 7000 series aluminum doesn't weigh more.
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all Al alloys weigh approximately the same.
Only Al-Li alloys are very slightly lighter.
typically, alloying materials account for only few % volume, hence making the differences in weight negligible.
 
Exile714 said:
That's some amazingly circular logic you've got there.

Premise 1: Heat pipes mean MBP doesn't need fans.
Premise 2: A fanless MBP must have a 15W processor.
Conclusion: MBP with heat pipe will be 15W processor.

But premise 2 is based on the assumption that the MBP uses the same heat dissipation technology as the rMB, which doesn't use heat pipes. Without a heat pipe you are restricted to 15W, but because heat pipes work better than fans you could theoretically have a fanless MBP with a 45W processor.

Do you see why your argument is invalid? It doesn't matter what technology Apple uses for heat dissipation as long as they adequately cool the components, so heat pipes are just as likely with any TDP as long as they can get the technology to work.

Also, magnesium may dissipate heat better than aluminum, but it can't conduct heat as well and that's the value we should be concerned with. Plus, aluminum is far sturdier.
Click to expand...

I may have worded it confusingly...but where did you infer that heat pipes are better than fans in an enclosed computer? Theres no way heat pipes alone can cool a 45W processor.

And yes if MBP is to become fanless...theyd prolly have to drop to 15 W.
Also, theres a diff between a 15W Core M and 15W Core i. I stated the above based on previous heat pipe cooled systems...Acer Switch Aplha 12 and SP4.

I never stated Premise 1. I said IF they were to go towards a fanless route...replacing that instead w/ heatpipe.

Premise 2 is based on preexisting products. And I said probably not "must".

So what are you going on about @Exile714 .

Also current Al alloys used in MBPs are NOT sturdier than Mg seen in e.g. SP4.
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pegamoos said:
it's actually the opposite, Al has higher thermal conductivity than Mg.
but i understand what you mean, an Al enclosure will feel warmer to the touch than a plastic one (Mg is not that far off actually), because it's 'spreading' the heat from the hot components to the colder regions better.
from a functional pov the metal enclosure is better, keeps the temperatures in the chips lower.
from an ergonomic pov a warm palmrest is not that nice to have.

besides, Mg is lighter than Al, but it's more complicated to machine like they do the current models. i don't know if they'll switch to it anytime soon, but it would surely be an impressive feature.
Click to expand...

I was talking about dissipation only.
 
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I feel like apple will likely loser upgrade pricing a bit this year and here's why.

With Macbook sales leveling off/declining, I see this partly as a case of "my computer is good enough". So how do you get people who are looking to upgrade buy more than just the base model (which already has really powerful specs)? You make the incremental upgrades not outrageous and then a greater number of people will say "screw it... It's not that much more to get more ram or storage", and people trade up, raising the average selling price, which surely will otherwise drop as more and more just buy the base model.

Or I'm wrong :rolleyes:
 
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