Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[WRONG]

I think that was true 5 years ago but these days I would say it's the other way around and it's people from the vast iOS customer base who are discovering the Mac.

True, but still Apple in the course of years has built an ecosystem tightly interconnected between its products.
OSX and Mac are still important mainstays for them.

 

[hfletcher]

I love how there are always people on Macrumors who defend Apple to the hilt.

Reality is selling a product with Haswell in 2016 is just plain profiteering. How many other laptops are still being sold with Haswell right now? Basically none.

Broadwell chips for the 15" have been out for a year. Skylake ones for a good month now.

 

[Nubcake]

Where is Serban with the stuff? I'm waiting for this guy. I need ma stuff you know...

 

[doctorwhofan98]

I love how there are always people on Macrumors who defend Apple to the hilt.

Reality is selling a product with Haswell in 2016 is just plain profiteering. How many other laptops are still being sold with Haswell right now? Basically none.

Broadwell chips for the 15" have been out for a year. Skylake ones for a good month now.

It's the same as when people somehow defend Apple still selling 16GB iPhones... there's liking a company, and then there's being blinded regarding its flaws.

 

[Sugarbear33]

Where is Serban with the stuff? I'm waiting for this guy. I need ma stuff you know...

Rofl enjoy the wait

 

[vatter69]

People love Apple - especially the followers in this thread. It's a pure display of love and passion - that's why you see so many fights and discussions about these products. First world problems as it's best.

 

[croco_dile]

I think you are missing the big picture. If Apple imploded their Mac line, their revenue would fall by a lot more than 10%. The Mac sales are gateway sales, that drive demand for many other Apple products.

I buy a Macbook, I decide to buy an iPhone and a iPad, maybe also a watch.

If I had bought a Dell XPS, I may have gone instead with a Nexus, and a Samsung Tablet.

The Mac line is crucial for maintaining a strong base of loyal Apple customers

Totally agree!
[doublepost=1464962681][/doublepost]

People love Apple - especially the followers in this thread. It's a pure display of love and passion - that's why you see so many fights and discussions about these products. First world problems as it's best.

People love(d) Apple for a reason. A lot of the loyal followers are also the ones who are most frustrated by Apple's performance.
[doublepost=1464962845][/doublepost]

Actually is completely the opposite.

It works both ways.
[doublepost=1464963051][/doublepost]

Someone needs to hack into apple.com and post this image on their home page. And someone should be holding up a big banner of this image at WWDC. The situation is nothing short of being pathetic. And if this was on Apple executive's scorecard/KPI (as it should), then no one should be getting their bonus this year.
[doublepost=1464963180][/doublepost]

Every computer on their products line is outdated.
EVERY.
Far beyond their usual updating cycle.
MacMini was nerfed.
MacPro was nerfed.
MacBook Pro, at least for now, seems forgotten. (and Apple could have upgraded it with Broadwell. It was possible)
The only computer updated is the MacBook (wow!...), but it doesn't support TB3.

They made an event in March that, even if a great operation of marketing, was pathetic.
The internet joke about "wristbands for Apple Watch" it's not so much of a joke.
You can't present this "product" during an event. It's kidding.
Shall we speak about the iPhone?
The last iPhones were all but innovative.
There is no great innovation, except that they came back to the old format.
And that's seriously ridiculous, because makes people doubting your ability to innovate.

I could go on, but I thinks that's enough.
But the next time you want to insult, think about it twice.

Yep!

 

[imom]

Regardless the Mac clearly isn't a priority for Apple and is never likely to be ever again. They are 10% (at best) of a dying PC market.

No-one is saying that Apple should bet the whole business on the PC desktop market, but there are still billions to make in this market, especially if Apple actually fought for the space and took 20% of market share. The Apple share of the PC market is growing, despite Apple's lack of interest. Imagine if they actually tried.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...as-windows-continues-to-cede-share-to-the-mac

 

[dallegre]

I think, at least from my perspective, a great deal of Apple's positive reputation is owed to OSX (esp vs Windows). iOS doesn't have the same advantage vs Android. It will be interesting to see how the transition to MacOS goes, and if Apple can remain on a pedestal vs strengthening competition from Windows 10 and pc device makers.

It seems like even if profit margins are slimmer and revenue is smaller in the laptop/desktop market, it's still an area that is very meaningful in maintaining the reputation of the overall brand.

 

[utilitas]

I think with the Zenbook 3 it is the first time that Apple has a laptop competitor with a thinner, lighter and more powerful configuration. This musst be very important to them because they always had the LIGHTEST and THINNEST devices.

They might screw over plans and try to develop something thinner and more powerful now because they have to keep this unique selling point that everybody identifies Apple with.

 

[Rob_2811]

No-one is saying that Apple should bet the whole business on the PC desktop market, but there are still billions to make in this market, especially if Apple actually fought for the space and took 20% of market share. The Apple share of the PC market is growing, despite Apple's lack of interest. Imagine if they actually tried.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...as-windows-continues-to-cede-share-to-the-mac

I think market share is only growing because the PC Market is in freefall. Mac sales just aren't falling as fast as the rest of the market.

 

[abrooks14]

A lot of the Mac loyalty is down the combination of expensive looking and feeling hardware and the slick OS. Not having to buy anti-virus software is a bonus too. I think these things spread by word of mouth, at least in my profession where we don't get a work computer. If there was a 'gateway' effect from iOS devices we would have seen a surge in Mac revenues since the iPhone took off that hasn't happened, they just keep chipping away at market share year after year.

I don't think they have given up on Mac but it clearly (rightly?) isn't a major focus, I would guess it falls behind phone and services, on a par with ipad and ahead of watch. I don't mind that too much as the products are still nice with some embarassing exceptions (I'm looking at you 5400rpm HDD in imac) but being behind the curve while still price gouging on upgrades will bite them on the bum eventually.

If I were Apple I would continue to play to the strengths of the Mac line up, mend the glaring deficiencies and drop the prices. There is only so much goodwill after all. If I can't buy a MBP with acceptable graphics on 14th June I'm going to try PC for a while.

 

[imom]

I think market share is only growing because the PC Market is in freefall. Mac sales just aren't falling as fast as the rest of the market.

No, Apple's PC sales actually grew over the last year. So did Dell's, but overall you are right: the market is declining.
http://www.recode.net/2016/4/11/115...ver-pc-sales-off-to-another-bad-start-in-2016
However there is a huge difference between declining and unprofitable. This is still a highly profitable line for Apple, and should continue to be so for at least another decade.

 

[guychicago]

Rofl enjoy the wait

I hope he is not doing what Apple is pulling on us with delayed product launches.

 

[Ma2k5]

I think with the Zenbook 3 it is the first time that Apple has a laptop competitor with a thinner, lighter and more powerful configuration. This musst be very important to them because they always had the LIGHTEST and THINNEST devices.

They might screw over plans and try to develop something thinner and more powerful now because they have to keep this unique selling point that everybody identifies Apple with.

I must say, although some of the bugginess/quality issues of the XPS line has so far stopped me from buying a laptop, this Zenbook 3 is pretty tempting.

 

[Rob_2811]

No, Apple's PC sales actually grew over the last year. So did Dell's, but overall you are right: the market is declining.
http://www.recode.net/2016/4/11/115...ver-pc-sales-off-to-another-bad-start-in-2016
However there is a huge difference between declining and unprofitable. This is still a highly profitable line for Apple, and should continue to be so for at least another decade.

The biggest problem is that although it is profitable the growth will always be modest at best given the overall decline of the personal computer market. Apple obviously think wearables like the watch offer a better opportunity for growth.

Then you've got to take into account how much Apple has made of this "The iPad is the future of computing" thing. It makes that look a bit hollow if all of their focus goes on the Mac.

 

[cmChimera]

If they're not, and Apple waits until Q4, then that's no longer Intel's fault - that's Apple choosing not to make them available for some reason.

They could be waiting for Polaris. This seems pretty likely at this point since rumors are indicating that the new 15" will include it.

Apple could've launched it slightly later in 2015.

And then they would have had people saying they were falling behind, they're taking too long, etc. Apple is very much in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. Let's say they're waiting on Polaris. Everyone waiting on Polaris would be upset if Apple released a month ago but had some old GPU, and people are mad now for having to wait for Polaris.

I'm not saying that people's frustrations aren't justified. I want this Macbook yesterday. I'm just saying there are other factors involved, and it's not as simple as just placing a new CPU in, and calling it a day.

You realize these "insane" SSD speeds, while certainly very fast, aren't quite as fast as the Samsung 950 PRO and 951 SSDs going into higher end PCs these days? They're more like "reasonably market competitive SSD speeds".

Yeah, but the 950 Pros came out after the Macbook Pro. I can only assume that SSD speeds will continue to increase. Also, can you point me to a laptop getting higher read/write than a Macbook Pro? Genuinely curious, not saying it doesn't exist.

CPU is only one component, but the core, and the one that people usually look for to see if a computer is actual or behind competence.

That's a terrible benchmark.

Add the fact that in laptops, CPU is what brings new thunderbolt revisions, more PCIe lanes to get better performance on disks, supports DDR4 RAM at more clock speed, etc.

How many of those applied to Broadwell?

Oh wait, I forgot about the most important: new iGPU.

The iGPU did change between 2013 and 2015 models right?

2. New keyboards that feel clunky to many users, so not an upgrade for all.

There are always going to be people unsatisfied. The point is that Apple isn't just twiddling their thumbs.

Of course, and nobody asks Apple to be the very best at everything (having the best GPU, best CPU, best disks, best port config...), but there are many things they do wrong: iMacs still come with 5400RPM HDDs, low-mid end dGPUs on almost 3000€ top-end machines, ridiculous price upgrades, prioritizing design over functionality, etc.

Now some of these things I wholeheartedly agree with, but they have little to do with whether or not Apple is "falling behind." I can get on Dell's website right now and order an XPS 15 with a HDD. This is the laptop members have been ranting and raving about and saying Apple needs to catch up to it. Offered with an HDD. So again, while I would agree that offering computers with HDDs in 2016 shouldn't happen, it's not like Apple is alone in offering them. Probably for affordability reasons.

4. Apple is not constrained by Intel delays right now, they were until April-May, but not anymore. So if they don't release new MBPs at WWDC (and shipp them in July-August due to yelds), it will be because they are just lazy or they have other priorities rather than Macs.

Or are waiting on Polaris, OLED yields for the touch bar, display yields, or whatever. Like I said, without any of us being in the supply talks, we really don't know. The idea that Apple is just being lazy, or doesn't care is a kneejerk reaction though. It's more likely to be a supply issue, development and production issue, or manufacturing issue.

 

[kevinkyoo]

Who knew it would be so hard to create a competent 14-15" laptop... I'm looking into other options in case Apple drops the ball. Apparently the XPS 15" is a whole can of worms judging by its thread on Dell's forum, and the Razer Blade can melt your lap, regardless of whether you play games on it or not.

 

[bayer]

@cmChimera, if Apple reduced the price of their current outdated offerings, 90% of the issues would be solved.

The 2015 MBP 15" is a capable machine, but not at $3000 CAD.

This level of consumer hostility should not be rewarded.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

To a certain extent, Macs are lagging behind now. The Mac Pro hasn't been updated in years, and the Mac Mini is similarly out of date. iMacs still ship with HDDs by default.

Which is why I think it's more likely these extra desktop models will just be discontinued.

It makes little sense for them to have only two laptop options (MacBook and MacBook Pro) and continue to have three desktop options. I'd imagine desktops are their least-purchased machines, after laptops, tablets, and phones. So having three options for it seems unlikely.

 

[cmChimera]

@cmChimera, if Apple reduced the price of their current outdated offerings, 90% of the issues would be solved.

I think it would be reasonable to drop the price of the Mac Mini and Mac Pro (Not that I would be able to afford it even if it did receive a price drop). And there's no reason the Thunderbolt Display should be sold for as much as it is.

 

[doctorwhofan98]

They could be waiting for Polaris. This seems pretty likely at this point since rumors are indicating that the new 15" will include it.

And then they would have had people saying they were falling behind, they're taking too long, etc. Apple is very much in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. Let's say they're waiting on Polaris. Everyone waiting on Polaris would be upset if Apple released a month ago but had some old GPU, and people are mad now for having to wait for Polaris.

I guess that makes sense, though I do think Apple's priorities and timing are wrong. They delay the 2015 update for the 15 inch MacBook Pro... but still release it just before new processors are out. And then when all the MBPs are ridiculously out of date (unprecedentedly long time since the last update), and the processors - the most important part - are available, they ostensibly delay all models because of a GPU update, despite only the top-end 15 inch model benefiting from that.

At the very least they should release the non-dedicated-GPU MBPs in the summer and delay the ones that need Polaris. The trouble is that by delaying them until Q4, by then a new version of a component, be it RAM, the SSD or whatever, will be just about to come out...

 

[ThisBougieLife]

That's why delaying things in tech is hopeless. There's always something better "right around the corner". At some point, you just have to pick a time to release something. But it's always going to be the "wrong time" for something.

 

[doctorwhofan98]

Which is why I think it's more likely these extra desktop models will just be discontinued.

It makes little sense for them to have only two laptop options (MacBook and MacBook Pro) and continue to have three desktop options. I'd imagine desktops are their least-purchased machines, after laptops, tablets, and phones. So having three options for it seems unlikely.

There are still markets for the Mac Mini and Mac Pro, and consumers that can't be satisfied with just the iMac; whereas a fan of the MacBook Air would be satisfied with a Retina MacBook or Pro, there will be professionals that need a computer from Apple, not an all-in-one. They could just keep the Mac Pro, but the Mac Mini is the cheapest Mac - and is therefore perfect for the Windows switchers who can spend (relatively) little money and keep all their components.

But even if they are effectively killing off the Mac Mini and Mac Pro, that doesn't justify the fact that iMacs - even the Retina ones! - ship with hard drives by default. Paying over £1000 for a device with a slow moving disk (that near enough negates the boost of the Skylake processor) shows how elements of Apple's product lineup are beyond ridiculous.

 

[Pbrutto]

A lot of the Mac loyalty is down the combination of expensive looking and feeling hardware and the slick OS. Not having to buy anti-virus software is a bonus too. I think these things spread by word of mouth, at least in my profession where we don't get a work computer. If there was a 'gateway' effect from iOS devices we would have seen a surge in Mac revenues since the iPhone took off that hasn't happened, they just keep chipping away at market share year after year.

I don't think they have given up on Mac but it clearly (rightly?) isn't a major focus, I would guess it falls behind phone and services, on a par with ipad and ahead of watch. I don't mind that too much as the products are still nice with some embarassing exceptions (I'm looking at you 5400rpm HDD in imac) but being behind the curve while still price gouging on upgrades will bite them on the bum eventually.

If I were Apple I would continue to play to the strengths of the Mac line up, mend the glaring deficiencies and drop the prices. There is only so much goodwill after all. If I can't buy a MBP with acceptable graphics on 14th June I'm going to try PC for a while.

My friend who "hates Apple" told me today he is gonna purchase a Mac soon because he does not want to deal with viruses anymore and he wants his computer to last longer than his pcs that keep dying, so I would say just those factors alone are enough to make some switch