New old keyboard! Now with 300% more wobble!
Don't forget the smaller keys and the backlight bleeding - it's wonderful!
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Waiting for the 2018 MBP
- Thread starter benface
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Don't forget the smaller keys and the backlight bleeding - it's wonderful!
Wobbly keys >> 7% defective keys (numbers after the official compressed air "solution")
Is this really a complaint that many people share? When I got my 2015 rMBP for work I did notice that if you hold your head at the right angle you can see the light under the keys but it never actually bothered me while I was working. Is this purely an aesthetics thing or does it actually interfere with your typing somehow?Don't forget the smaller keys and the backlight bleeding - it's wonderful!
I actually like that it does that... like the keys have light coming from the bottom and they hover on top. A bit like when people put lights under their cars.
I don't think it was ever a substantial complaint per se before the 2015 MBs/2016 MBPs because we as the users just weren't used to anything better than this sort of keyboard backlight (at least on Macs), but I do think the new backlit keyboard with a diode under each individual key is an underappreciated change and a nice step-up from a visual perspective that's oftentimes overlooked in the discussions about the new keyboard because of the other issues that the keyboard has.
The old backlight keyboard that (depending on the angle you were looking at the keyboard) often illuminated the edges of the keys much more than the letters on the keys themselves could be a huge distraction and didn't look very aesthetically pleasing. The primary purpose of the keyboard backlight is to let the user see the keys he's typing on in dark environments, but in such environments it can be very irritating to have all those lines and edges inbetween keys brightly shine into your face when you just want to look at the keycaps.
I can see what you mean, although I think you'll agree that if it was a choice between that and keys that fail frequently and expensively then having a bit of backlight bleed pales in comparison.
Sure - the individual LEDs are nice - and I can even deal with the low travel of the new keyboards and not complain about it.
I do, however, think there are valid issues with keyboard durability/bad design. This was touched on in a Daring Fireball podcast months ago regarding stuck/broken keys. It doesn't seem to be getting better, and it's a pricey repair to undertake. If you pay a premium price for a laptop, it's just a given that the keyboard stays functional over the course of three years.
This is the first I've heard of official numbers. If it's actually 7% that's pretty damning. Where'd you see that?
I agree, never argued otherwise. I was just adding a different perspective on the discussion of which backlight is better and pointing out that, among its flaws, Apple might have even done a thing or two right with the new keyboard
But to take you literally, it hopefully won't have to be a choice in the future. To be the optimist here, it's very possible that Apple has remedied the keyboard issues completely in the 2018 MBPs and that we can have both, the new smaller formfactor and design but without any abnormal failure rates.
sounds like EVERYONE wants to buy into Apple Inc. 's corporate mid life crisis.
the new 2018 Mac Book
the new 2018 Mac Book
This is an important point that I hope Apple realizes. One of the justifications for paying a premium price, and reasons I personally am ok doing so, is I know the machine has great potential to last 5-10 years in both reliability and usability. I upgrade every few years, but to be able to give my parents my 'old' laptop, which is more powerful than anything they would ever need/still runs OS X smoothly, and know it'll last them until I'm ready to pass down my next machine is a huge benefit.
The current reliability issues, especially with the keyboard, are a major reason I am a couple years behind on my normal upgrade cycle. That, along with other recent decisions from Apple that I disagree with, have put me in the position where I'd rather wait another year or two to see where they are heading with the 'pro' line.
So, my 2008 17” MacBook Pro is finally starting to give up the ghost.
The right fan is dodgy (which I have replaced) and the Wi-fi card is doing a strange, intermittent working/not working. I’ve tried all the resets with no joy.
With this in mind, I know I’m due an upgrade. However, I’m cautious picking one up now, with a potential due for release in June. I always try to grab the top spec model, just after release in order to maximise my longevity.
Now, I’ve read through all the posts about potential 32gb ram, which, sounds much better than my 4gb. However, I wonder what sort of cost we are looking at. Current model is £2,699...could we potentially see a £3k plus model??? Sounds crazy but with the iMac pro, anything is possible...
The right fan is dodgy (which I have replaced) and the Wi-fi card is doing a strange, intermittent working/not working. I’ve tried all the resets with no joy.
With this in mind, I know I’m due an upgrade. However, I’m cautious picking one up now, with a potential due for release in June. I always try to grab the top spec model, just after release in order to maximise my longevity.
Now, I’ve read through all the posts about potential 32gb ram, which, sounds much better than my 4gb. However, I wonder what sort of cost we are looking at. Current model is £2,699...could we potentially see a £3k plus model??? Sounds crazy but with the iMac pro, anything is possible...
With the patent which describes three possible solutions to the keyboard reliability issues (which by the way was filed even before the 2016 MBP was introduced), it's not like Apple doesn't have ideas on how to make the keyboard more reliable. I'd guess they simply didn't have the time to implement those fixes in the 2016 / 2017 models, and I'm pretty hopeful they can implement it in the next model.
Apart from the questionable reliability, I love the keyboard, and I hope they continue to use this style of keyboard. Although I do admit that before trying the butterfly keyboards, I was totally fine with the chiclet style ones they used, and didn't notice the wobble or backlight bleeding nearly as much. You get used to these advancements way too fast ...
Apart from the questionable reliability, I love the keyboard, and I hope they continue to use this style of keyboard. Although I do admit that before trying the butterfly keyboards, I was totally fine with the chiclet style ones they used, and didn't notice the wobble or backlight bleeding nearly as much. You get used to these advancements way too fast ...
Have you experienced any of the finger/hand pain after extended use that some have reported? I think I too could get used to the new keys (if the reliability was fixed) but I wonder if there is some inherent reason that more travel is more comfortable, or is it all just what you're used to.
I only use a new MacBook Pro at work occasionally (my private machine is still an older one), but at least there after a few hours of typing I didn't notice anything strange. However, this may depend on your specific typing style.
No, I already have a fairly recent iMac. I use Logic Pro x. I am aware that the OS only uses a small portion of RAM. However, I could do with the extra to run Logic in my MacBook. I have been able to run 10.3 with a few tracks and plug ins-but nothing like my iMac.
From a guy in this thread, as I recall he said they have 1500 Macbook Pro's of those a lot had key problems. The ones they couldn't fix with air, they sent back to Apple. The rate of returns that they couldn't fix was 7% of 1500.
Hypotetical question. If the new MBP should come with LED button for each key of the keyboard. How much weight and cost would that add to the mac? On the other hand it would totally wipe out the need for having different assembly lines for the different models with different keyboards which will make it "one mac".
Taking this one step further:
What if apple sold all macs with max ram and mac disk you had to pay to unlock the hardware. (For the moment being it would not be possible for CPU) This means that you could unlock more disk space as needed and ram as needed. Could open for some quite interesting business models. I think the old IBM OS/390 came with this config. A lot of CPU´s where in those boxes when you bought them but you had to pay additional cost to unlock it.
Would such an option be a benefit or not for users and Apple? This will make all mac equal.... Apple should definitely have the economical muscle to go for for such an config option.
Taking this one step further:
What if apple sold all macs with max ram and mac disk you had to pay to unlock the hardware. (For the moment being it would not be possible for CPU) This means that you could unlock more disk space as needed and ram as needed. Could open for some quite interesting business models. I think the old IBM OS/390 came with this config. A lot of CPU´s where in those boxes when you bought them but you had to pay additional cost to unlock it.
Would such an option be a benefit or not for users and Apple? This will make all mac equal.... Apple should definitely have the economical muscle to go for for such an config option.
this is a terrible idea:
1) For the bad publicity it would generate for Apple,
2) It would get hacked within a week and they would be wasting valuable resources in their cat & mouse of game of keeping that locked down.
3) Hardware as a service is extremely unpalatable to many, particularly to the key demographics of Apple users (eg People who tend to be willing to spend more for good hardware).
4a) You would have to ensure that all hardware can potentially operate at max specification - which isn't how hardware is made. Intel CPUs for example are "binned"; which means that when they are made, processors that are good but don't live up to the full performance of the line can be sold as lower spec units. This allows for overall production to be cheaper because it cuts down on wasted hardware. Not being able to cut waste on all components would drive up the manufacturing costs of all parts.
4b) If instead, they did allow for hardware variation, they would end up with a problem like with Intel / Qualcomm LTE modems in iPhones, where people wanted to return their phones and get the [better performing] Qualcomm ones etc.
There are probably a bunch of other reasons but those are the few that immediately come to mind.
1) For the bad publicity it would generate for Apple,
2) It would get hacked within a week and they would be wasting valuable resources in their cat & mouse of game of keeping that locked down.
3) Hardware as a service is extremely unpalatable to many, particularly to the key demographics of Apple users (eg People who tend to be willing to spend more for good hardware).
4a) You would have to ensure that all hardware can potentially operate at max specification - which isn't how hardware is made. Intel CPUs for example are "binned"; which means that when they are made, processors that are good but don't live up to the full performance of the line can be sold as lower spec units. This allows for overall production to be cheaper because it cuts down on wasted hardware. Not being able to cut waste on all components would drive up the manufacturing costs of all parts.
4b) If instead, they did allow for hardware variation, they would end up with a problem like with Intel / Qualcomm LTE modems in iPhones, where people wanted to return their phones and get the [better performing] Qualcomm ones etc.
- High return rates are not good for companies because they cost money, and aren't good for customers because somewhere along the line those costs come back to us.
There are probably a bunch of other reasons but those are the few that immediately come to mind.
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Umm why should Apple put hundreds of dollars per machine into additional hardware that they then purposefully disable? It would not be a benefit to Apple, they would most likely make a loss on every machine they sell. And even if they don't go as far with maxing out components as to sell them for a loss, they would be missing out on a lot of profit for no reason.
This isn't like with video games where it's free or almost free for the publisher to put some paid day-one DLCs onto the disk itself to save the user from the hassle of downloading them (and even that is something that's not perceived as very ethical by many); maxing out the RAM, SSD, CPU etc. is expensive for a reason. Apple can't just put a 4TB SSD and 128GB ECC RAM into the base configuration of the iMac Pro and still sell it for $4999. Would it be profitable to you to put together a PC for $1500 and then disable half its components via software and sell it for $1000? Of course not, you'd be making a loss. This wouldn't be any different for Apple. It has nothing to do with economical muscle or how much money they have available; they are not gonna start giving away expensive hardware literally for free.
And that's without even talking about the possibility of users disabling these software restrictions and getting access to the "full" hardware for "free" which would most certainly happen.
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So, as expected, no March event announced yet. The only thing on the horizon so far is WWDC 2018, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the new MacBook Pro get released in Q2 2018, or else Q3.
OTOH, a defective keyboard would p!ss me off to no end obviously. Luckily so far my 2017 keyboard is fine. Hopefully it stays that way.
I never considered the keyboard backlight bleed on my old 2009 MacBook Pro a significant issue, and I still don’t, even though I now have a 2017 MacBook. (I still have old machine in active use, with High Sierra.)
OTOH, a defective keyboard would p!ss me off to no end obviously. Luckily so far my 2017 keyboard is fine. Hopefully it stays that way.
A while to go in March yet....more coffee lake chips leaking yesterday: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amazon-leaks-four-coffee-lake-cpus,36663.html
I never even noticed keyboard backlight bleed on mine at al.