Since the MBP's these figures are based on are crap - I don't consider this good news. However I don't put any stock into KGI Securities' Ming-Chi Kuo so I consider it just to be noise.
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Waiting for the 2018 MBP
- Thread starter benface
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Since the MBP's these figures are based on are crap - I don't consider this good news. However I don't put any stock into KGI Securities' Ming-Chi Kuo so I consider it just to be noise.
Falhófnir
macrumors 603
The iris plus 650 of the current 7th gen chips in the 13” touch bar is about on a par with the iris pro 5200 in the 2015 15”
Dave245
macrumors G4
Crap in your opinion, a lot of people are still buying the MacBook Pro's regardless of whether you like them or not, what you have to think about is that you only ever see on these forums when people have a problem/complain, you rarely hear when people are happy/content. Overall the MacBook Pro's have been selling well for Apple.
As for Ming-Chi Kuo he is very reliable when it comes to Apple, no not everything is always 100% accurate but he's certainly the most reliable out there.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-industry-estimates-defeat-contracting-market
"During a recent earnings call, CEO Tim Cook revealed that Apple's Mac division set a new all-time revenue record of $25.8 billion for fiscal 2017. Apple sold 5.4 million Macs during the September quarter, up 10 percent over last year, and gained significant market share as the global market contracted by one percent, according to IDC's latest estimate. The performance was reportedly fueled by big demand for the MacBook Pro, said Cook, and Mac revenue grew 25 percent to a new September quarter record."
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/15/q3-2017-macbook-sales-increase-again/
I'm hoping for a 2018 15" MBP without discrete GPU and I want a more reliable keyboard .... the first and second generation of those scissor switches don't impress me at all. That's the main reason I stayed with my 2015 Retina 15 and currently considering getting a 2nd 2015 15 Retina with maximum non GPU configuration.
AdamA9
macrumors 65816
Will we ever see a 13" with dGPU or should I just stop hoping and swap to an iMac?
Poki
macrumors 65816
It's unlikely, since it would push the TDP by at least 15W (15W CPU + 28W GPU, if we use the most power efficient but still relatively high-performance parts available today), which in turn would require bigger batteries and better cooling, i.e. make the notebook thicker and heavier.
Having said that, the Iris Plus 650 is surprisingly close to the Radeon Pro 450. AMD's integrated GPUs in their 15W Ryzen Mobile parts can even outperform the Radeon Pro 555 in some instances. So I wouldn't hope for a dedicated GPU, but rather for an improved iGPU, since they are already very close to the lower-power dedicated GPUs on the market.
However, the way Apple collate those figures it is impossible to tell if people are buying the TouchBar models or the non-Touchbar models. There seems to be strong demand still for the "2015" model for example. I personally think the TouchBar is not the success they are making it out to be in terms of sales. We could argue that back and forth, but ultimately the only real sign we will get of this is what they do next. If the next version has no TouchBar we can conlcude it was not as successful as they wanted. If there are like 4 TouchBars on the next MBP I'll be forced to concede the point 😀😀
(My own suspicion is that the will minimise or remove the TouchBar in its current form, replacign function keys, in favour of a pencil responsive Trackpad instead - with maybe a mini touchbar underneath the keyboard to either side).
Ming-Chi Kuo used to be reliable I agree, but in the last 12-18months he has not been so reliable. Didn't he predict a 32GB MBP in 2017 for example ?
EugW
macrumors P6
Yeah, but to give him the benefit of the doubt, that was probably partially based on Intel's roadmaps. Unfortunately, Intel failed to execute and has delayed the chipset and CPU that would support 32 GB LPDDR4 by over a year.
Expect the chipset and CPU release in Q4 2018, and the MacBook Pros that support 32 GB to appear in 2019.
The original roadmaps had the launch in 2016, with the products available in 2017. Then that got delayed until 2017-2018, and now 2018-2019.
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I do not accept you need LPDDR4 for a 32GB laptop. Dell can do it without that. And no battery life is not a valid excuse.
Poki
macrumors 65816
Battery life might not be important to you, but it sure is to some other customers. Dell uses DDR4 in their XPS 15 with 32 GB RAM, which consumes up to ten times more energy in standby (which, realistically, is what RAM is most of the time). Using twice the amount of more power hungry RAM would definitely decrease battery life when using the notebook, and it would decrease standby battery life from a month to a day.
afir93
macrumors 6502a
That's a potential feature that I wish we heard more rumors about. Having the Apple Pencil support the MBP trackpad in its next iteration would finally be a great reason for why they made the trackpad so large, and it would make sense with Apple moving all the products in their lineup closer together. I'd imagine they could even give it a W1/W2 chip so that you could pair it with the iPad and it would automatically work on your MBPs aswell without further setup. We essentially have one big drawing pad on each MBP, why shouldn't we be able to use Apple's own pencil on it?
I don't think such a feature would necessarily relate to the removal of TB/function keys though, having the trackpad become a drawing pad would be great independently of where Apple decides to go with the TB.
I though we looked at the graphs of sales data before? Its clear that users are buying not any less Apple computers then prior to the 2016 release, and its also clear that they are buying more expensive computers. So no, popularity of the 2015 model can't really explain these sales. But you are right, we can potentially argue about this forever. Our prior biases are just too strong and any evidence is too situational to have a strong posterior 🙂
EugW
macrumors P6
It's most definitely a valid excuse. Dell is able to do it with mediocre battery life but Apple has chosen not to do that, for good reason.
If you don't like that, then it's tough luck for you unfortunately.
Queen6
macrumors G5
Sadly Apple has gone from a company of innovation to one of weak excuses that are totally self serving. Thinner sells to the masses, equally removing much of the utility many require to get the job done...
Q-6
ugru
macrumors 6502a
mmmmm...And why a stand by time of a month is a fundamental stat? Just turn off the laptop and turn it on again when you need it....
But you are both missing the point. If you actually NEED 32GB, if you are pushing your laptop that hard, the battery life won't last more than an hour anyhow. People who need 32GB are happy to plug in - because they have to anyhow. My 16GB 2014 battery is good for 5hrs under normal use - if i push it hard 50 mins. And nobody is forcing everyone to buy 32GB. Secondly, they made a design choice to shrink the battery in the 2016/2017 models. No-one made them do that.
Hahaha loving the Bayesian analogy. I agree 😀 we may be more alike than I thought 😎
impulse462
macrumors 68020
Ddr4 takes too much power to have good battery life. It also runs much warmer than lpddr3. Apples laptops always strive to have really good battery life. If 32gb is ABSOLUTELY NEEDED you for your workflow at this point you would either get an iMac or buy a windows laptop instead of complaining about it here
What about this: perhaps they will replace the escape and function keys for the touch types that need them. Add a pencil compatible track pad, and then place a vertically orientiated touch bar with finger print ID along one of the edges - wheere the speaker grill is on the pre 2016 models. Oooo....as a current touchbar hater even I could go for that.
EugW
macrumors P6
Uh no, that's not how it works. Lots of people who need lots of memory actually aren't necessarily pushing their CPU that hard. For example, somebody who might run 3 simultaneous VMs might not actually be actively using them simultaneously. CPU usage and overall power usage would be way lower than somebody with 8 GB and encoding video for example.
There, the person with 8 GB and encoding video would need a plug more than the person with multiple VMs and 32 GB (if the memory was LP that is).
Queen6
macrumors G5
Don't know about anyone else, but I don't find that my notebooks are at their peak productivity or maximise revenue while they are in "standby". Those that need 32Gb, port diversity, reliable keyboards, better GPU's, nor port constrained with neutered battery capacity likely do as they are using the hardware professionally with higher needs...
Q-6
I mean we can each come up with specific use case examples to suit whatever weird situation. It comes down to this - almost every competitor offers a 32GB laptop. Apple don't. Some customers want 32GB. Apple have certainly lost sales because of this (I have stayed on my old machine for one!). Is that what you want ?
ugru
macrumors 6502a
Quite a rude answer from someone who did not understand my question...
Battery life is not what I asked. I asked why stand by time is even an important stat?
Why is it important to have a computer that can stay one month in stand by...Just turn it off....
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Queen6
macrumors G5
I'd settle for a decent keyboard with a number pad 🙂 equally I'd be open to Apple doing something smarter with the TouchBar, given the real-estate the 15" MBP keyboard deck has.
Q-6
I think a vertical touchbar closer to the use could be good, especially if you could use the pencil on the touchpad - imagine using the pencil in one hand and scrubbing on touchbar with other. Except you would have problem of putting it on left or right and handedness.
Dave245
macrumors G4
I don't think they would lie in order to make it out to be a success it either is or it isn't, like you say it's almost impossible to know really. I don't see them dropping the Touch Bar in the next version (2018 will probably be a spec bump at best).
The best figures we have are only those that are reported and Cook did say the following:
"Although company executives said little about the Mac during yesterday's earnings call, Cook did mention the new Touch Bar-equipped MacBook Pro notebook, which launched in late October. He hinted that Apple could have sold more if it had had them. "We were supply constrained for the new MacBook Pro throughout the December quarter and are just now coming into supply/demand balance," he said of the shortage.
That was in 2017 (source link below)
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...-sales-slump-with-record-revenue-of-7-2b.html
"With the MacBook growth story healthy, KGI says that the Touch Bar MacBook Pro models are seeing a larger weighting in particular. This is good news from a financial perspective because the Touch Bar laptops are also the most expensive MacBook models in the lineup."
http://zeenews.india.com/technology...nts-to-grow-13-16-in-2018-report-2090885.html
Obviously the above is from KGI Ming-Chi Kuo and will depend on accuracy. Only time will tell but personally i don't think the Pro's are as much as a failure as some people are trying to make out. It will be interesting to see if Apple moves forward with support for the Touch Bar.