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I can't believe anyone would say 16 GBs of RAM is not enough. What the heck are you doing? The Surface Book has 16 GBs of RAM max, the 15 inch 2017 MBP has 16 GBs of RAM max. If you believe its not enough, I think you would be working at Apple already. Sorry, but in this case, the customer is not always right.

I have an Early 2015 MBP 13 inch with 8 GBs of RAM and its more than sufficient for my needs. I have several Word docs open, iTunes running, Firefox and Chrome with lots of tabs, a couple Windows 10 VMs, numerous text files, Slack and it seems to be keeping up just fine.


Simple.
Stuff that I often run concurrently:

Scenario 1 (this is mostly locally IN the office):
  • Photoshop or Affinity Designer + InDesign
  • A Windows 10 or another macOS VM
  • Excel with files that exceed a couple hundred MB (which Excel does not really like so it's hogging memory).
  • A Java-based DB Application
  • a multitute of other applications, including but not limited to Safari, Mail, Busy Cal, iTunes, Numbers, Preview, Visual Studio Code, Chrome,…
Scenario 2 (this is mostly locally AT a client's location):
  • a Java-based DB SERVER + the corresponding Application
  • A Postgres DB
  • A Solr DB
  • InDesign Server + Client
  • Excel with files that exceed a couple hundred MB (which Excel does not really like so it's hogging memory).
  • A few other apps.
So... um... these things are eating memory for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and all other meals that hobbits tend to have over the course of any day.
 
Is there really? Keyboard issues aside, the current MBP line is one of the most future-proof MacBook in years; mobile CPU power has been on a plateau for years now with small incremental rather than big significant upgrades each year, which in turn means that the hardware will continually last longer and longer in terms of CPU power. There are still people on MBPs from 2011 or earlier saying that their machines work fine, I don't think much will change about that when we view the current MBP line a couple years down the road.

The iMac Pro is on similar grounds, with exceptional components all around for its price tag, and I can easily see that most people buying it now still find it usable and suitable for their needs 5-8 years down the road, probably even longer, unless they really really need that additional bit of power future generations might bring. Everything that an iMac Pro or MacBook Pro is able to do right now in a matter of seconds, it will still be able to do 8 years from now.

If anything, I think the lifespan of the average Apple Product is increasing rather than decreasing, seeing as that's also the tendency in Apple's mobile market. The current iPhones and iPads already have more power than many laptops, which means that the average lifespan for, say, an iPhone X is much higher than the one of an iPhone 6 or 6+ where the limited CPU and GPU power and memory became big issues 2-3 years down the road. Many people who previously bought a new phone steadily all 2 years are now more on a 3-4 year update cycle because we've reached a time where the current hardware easily allows that. If you look back into the early days of iPhones and iPads, people were constantly talking about how their current devices were too slow or had too little RAM for any advanced desktop-grade multitasking features and the like.

I’m on my iPhone 6 and apart from the battery everything is good. On 3 years +. So I guess you’re right. The apple stuff are still pretty future-proof. I guess coming here = reading a little too much into the MBP range.

I still haven’t bought my 2017 mbp. It seems like a sillier decision by the day as I’m counting down to WWDC and June. Bah.
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Ya... you may be right. Well... I still kept my iPad and iPhone for a longer than usual time. Only recently has it really started bothering me...

Concerning the MBPs. Generally... I'm just dis-illusioned and bitter, I guess.
It always comes back to my (repetitive) argument that MBPs had had 16GB since 2011. Which still make these usable TODAY. I just have my doubts that... now that I am constantly hitting the RAM ceiling and stuff just gets more and more RAM hungry... that 16GB will be fine for a Pro-grade machine 2, 3, or 4 years down the road.

Even more so if you think about the fact that the decidedly NOT Pro MacBook ALSO has 16GB.

I'm telling you... by now it really is just the frustration that is speaking. Especially after waiting for quite a few years and having high hopes for the 2016 MBP, hoping it would turn out to be an Apple XPS15, basically.

Without wanting to sound toooo dramatic... but I am really reaching the end of the line. Without any real options.
I need a powerful notebook. I definitely don't want to juggle two machines, it's just too much of a hassle and too expensive in the end (like having a MBP and an iMac Pro). And I truly believe that Windows is just unsuable. Even if I disregard the fact that there's just some things that are completely missing software-wise that I rely on... Windows is just a PAIN to work with (see my previous post a few pages back). So ya. I'm literally reaching the point where I don't know what to do. With the only real option being... to wait UNTIL there is a MBP with 32 or by then preferably 64GB of RAM.
[doublepost=1522667334][/doublepost]Oh and... I REALLY hope Apple finally starts listening. iMac Pro, Mac Pro, and Pro Display all make it seem like they just might. Reading these pages and threads they 100% do. I just hope they also CARE enough... and are not just like

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What you said = 100% how I feel. Sigh. Really really hoping the 2018s are good.
 
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I can't believe anyone would say 16 GBs of RAM is not enough. What the heck are you doing? The Surface Book has 16 GBs of RAM max, the 15 inch 2017 MBP has 16 GBs of RAM max. If you believe its not enough, I think you would be working at Apple already. Sorry, but in this case, the customer is not always right.

I have an Early 2015 MBP 13 inch with 8 GBs of RAM and its more than sufficient for my needs. I have several Word docs open, iTunes running, Firefox and Chrome with lots of tabs, a couple Windows 10 VMs, numerous text files, Slack and it seems to be keeping up just fine.

You’re running slack and chrome and you have enough ram‽
 
You do realize Apple still sells a iGPU only version of the 15 inch MBP?
You do realize the 2016 15 MBP's had a lot of discrete GPU issues, check the forums from November 2016 forward.
You do realize, not every app requires a discrete GPU.

It does?
 
Intel shares drop 9% (!) following Apple's announcement about leaving Intel processors for its own processors.

The upcoming models are still based on the 8th gen of Intel, but Project Kalamata will allow Apple to release non-Intel machines in 1-2 years.
 
Intel shares drop 9% (!) following Apple's announcement about leaving Intel processors for its own processors.

The upcoming models are still based on the 8th gen of Intel, but Project Kalamata will allow Apple to release non-Intel machines in 1-2 years.
Couldn’t be more excited for this
 
Intel shares drop 9% (!) following Apple's announcement about leaving Intel processors for its own processors.

The upcoming models are still based on the 8th gen of Intel, but Project Kalamata will allow Apple to release non-Intel machines in 1-2 years.

Well... Bloomberg said it. It's not like Apple actually announced it. But since it is coming from Gurman... it'll still be true.

Anyhow... Idk how I feel about this. On the one hand it could make things A LOT better if they manage the transition correctly and stuff continues to run, similar to how Rosetta made PPC Apps run.

On the other hand... it could be the beginning of the end. If Macs become different form factor iMacs in the process or macOS is more or less killed off... Interesting times, though, definitely.

While in 2005/2006 I was actually WAITING for the switch TO Intel before I bought a MacBook (rather than an iBook) and this was a really, really good decision... in this case I think I'd try to snag an Intel Icelake MBP, which, given the timeline, might be the last Intel Mac.
 
Still seems weird to me:

Isn’t intel already supposed to be doing a major shakeup of its architecture to get rid of the older stuff that isn’t needed anymore?

Also we’ve only just got the iMac Pro, and still yet to even see a glimpse of the Mac Pro... so do they only get 2 incarnations before everything goes ARM? That sounds super odd to me.

Do we get arm for the notebooks / Mac Mini replacement, while retaining Intel / Xeon / (AMD?) for the “Pro” line instead?
 
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I think any transition will happen gradually across the Mac line-up - not all at once. Whilst Apple could happily power a notebook with some of the stuff they've been putting into iPhone and iPad, they're not at the iMac Pro/Mac Pro performance yet - but if the iPhone/iPad performance curve over the years is anything to go by, it won't take them long though!
 
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Simple.
Stuff that I often run concurrently:

Scenario 1 (this is mostly locally IN the office):
  • Photoshop or Affinity Designer + InDesign
  • A Windows 10 or another macOS VM
  • Excel with files that exceed a couple hundred MB (which Excel does not really like so it's hogging memory).
  • A Java-based DB Application
  • a multitute of other applications, including but not limited to Safari, Mail, Busy Cal, iTunes, Numbers, Preview, Visual Studio Code, Chrome,…
Scenario 2 (this is mostly locally AT a client's location):
  • a Java-based DB SERVER + the corresponding Application
  • A Postgres DB
  • A Solr DB
  • InDesign Server + Client
  • Excel with files that exceed a couple hundred MB (which Excel does not really like so it's hogging memory).
  • A few other apps.
So... um... these things are eating memory for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and all other meals that hobbits tend to have over the course of any day.
So, you assume everybody runs that configuration. You are so niche, Apple would rather pay you not be a user of their products.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about bloomberg rumour, but call me pessimistic, I can think of only 1-2 of good things, and all other thoughts go in the other direction. And mostly because of this:

- MacOS becoming more and more close (like only apps via MAS).

I really love MacOS. And I do mean love it. It's the only reason I'm on mac at all.
But lately, I'm using Lenovo P51 because MBP simply isn't powerful enough for me when I'm on the go. My desktop computer is iMP, and for light tasks, I use rMB.

But this move could possibly move me entirely from apple ecosystem. And that means dropping iPhone as well. Only reason I use iPhone is because of wonderful ecosystem.

But if I can't run Unity3D and develop games for win/mac/android/ios at the same time, my guess is that my company is gonna drop mac completely. And I have no reason not to do so as well.

But this is just a rumour, and even if it is true, maybe it won't be so bad as I imagine it.
But even now I'm tempted by corsair one elite + x1 carbon. And that move could just make me move completely for some 2020 version of corsair + lenovo.

And I don't want to do that, because I really think that MacOS is worth it.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about bloomberg rumour, but call me pessimistic, I can think of only 1-2 of good things, and all other thoughts go in the other direction. And mostly because of this:

- MacOS becoming more and more close (like only apps via MAS).

I really love MacOS. And I do mean love it. It's the only reason I'm on mac at all.
But lately, I'm using Lenovo P51 because MBP simply isn't powerful enough for me when I'm on the go. My desktop computer is iMP, and for light tasks, I use rMB.

But this move could possibly move me entirely from apple ecosystem. And that means dropping iPhone as well. Only reason I use iPhone is because of wonderful ecosystem.

But if I can't run Unity3D and develop games for win/mac/android/ios at the same time, my guess is that my company is gonna drop mac completely. And I have no reason not to do so as well.

But this is just a rumour, and even if it is true, maybe it won't be so bad as I imagine it.
But even now I'm tempted by corsair one elite + x1 carbon. And that move could just make me move completely for some 2020 version of corsair + lenovo.

And I don't want to do that, because I really think that MacOS is worth it.
For now I wouldn't worry too much about it. If the rumors turn out true which is still questionable, then there'll most certainly be a solution to run old apps that aren't adapted to the new architecture, similar to what Rosetta was when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel. There's a lot of professional software out there which might not be adapted to a new architecture anytime soon, probably much more so than in PowerPC days, and Apple knows that. I don't think Apple would make such a big switch if they aren't able to make it smoothly, especially with all their experiences with custom chips and OSes that they have collected over the last decade.

And that's without considering that Apple most likely won't switch out their entire product line at once. I'd expect the iMac Pro and the new Mac Pro to have Intel chips or at least an option for Intel chips for at least some more years after the initial launch of Apple's own chips.
 
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I'm not sure how I feel about bloomberg rumour,
Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. I think on one hand, it may be a good thing, but unlike the seemingly majority waxing poeticly in the news thread on this. I just don't see good news coming out of it.

Its funny, when MS announced the ARM based windows, it was net with derision. With this rumor, Apple fans are seemingly embracing this. Now all of a sudden, Intel is the enemy, where as back 2006, intel was apple savior. Of course a lot has changed in the 12 years, and Apple is more then a computer computer. Yet I buy computers from apple for a reason. I'm concerned my needs will not be met with those new machines.

I will throw out this caveat, this is just a rumor, and apple has not confirmed this, AFAIK.

I was leaning towards getting a 2018 model, I think I'm more likely to get an intel based MBP now then wait and see what may happen in 2 years.
[doublepost=1522716463][/doublepost]
If the rumors turn out true
The funny thing is, back in 2004/2005, there were so many rumors rampant that apple was leaving the PPC and going with intel. Apple was mum on this of course, and boom, 2005 WWDC and apple drops the bomb. Since they gave a years notice, I wonder if that will happen as well, i.e., not say anythign about this during this WWDC, but then announce it in 2019
 
But, the question I would like to ask, what are Apple customers really missing from Intel to require the need to move to A-series for Macs? Considering the performance of todays Intel chips are exceptional in comparison to the competition in terms of raw performance; I don't think anyone using todays desktop apps are losing any productivity with the latest MacBook Pro or even iMac Pro.

I can understand Apple wanting to control and build the entire widget; and they are in a position to do so now. Where I do see this initially making sense is probably the retina MacBook and maybe the entry level non-touch bar MacBook Pro. And maybe thats what Apple will do over a period of time.

The demands of a retina MacBook user is different from a MacBook Pro, iMac Pro or Mac Pro. Apple is likely to use Intel for years in the high end machines.

This does certainly put my plans influx about future purchases. I was planning to purchase either the 2018 or 2019 MacBook Pro. But if Intel is gonna become some kind of transitional End of Life architecture, I might as well rethink my purchase. Remember Apple only created one more PowerPC compliant OS X after the transition Intel (Leopard). The 2021 release of macOS could follow a similar strategy, being the last Intel release that goes into some weird LTS-quasi-mode.
Surface Book 3 or 4 is looking more likely or Lenovo Carbon series.
 
So, you assume everybody runs that configuration. You are so niche, Apple would rather pay you not be a user of their products.

Dude, chill. I never said that. I KNOW that I am in the minority. I also know there are other people out there that also have similar demands. Different workflows... but similar demands.
Ofc are we in the minority. I'm pretty sure as far as user numbers are concerned it's like:
pros < pro-sumers < consumers

Again... we don't demand Apple to change and do a 180... to cater ONLY to us. All we ask is for OPTIONS that ALSO cater to us...
[doublepost=1522725699][/doublepost]
But, the question I would like to ask, what are Apple customers really missing from Intel to require the need to move to A-series for Macs? Considering the performance of todays Intel chips are exceptional in comparison to the competition in terms of raw performance; I don't think anyone using todays desktop apps are losing any productivity with the latest MacBook Pro or even iMac Pro.

I can understand Apple wanting to control and build the entire widget; and they are in a position to do so now. Where I do see this initially making sense is probably the retina MacBook and maybe the entry level non-touch bar MacBook Pro. And maybe thats what Apple will do over a period of time.

The demands of a retina MacBook user is different from a MacBook Pro, iMac Pro or Mac Pro. Apple is likely to use Intel for years in the high end machines.

This does certainly put my plans influx about future purchases. I was planning to purchase either the 2018 or 2019 MacBook Pro. But if Intel is gonna become some kind of transitional End of Life architecture, I might as well rethink my purchase. Remember Apple only created one more PowerPC compliant OS X after the transition Intel (Leopard). The 2021 release of macOS could follow a similar strategy, being the last Intel release that goes into some weird LTS-quasi-mode.
Surface Book 3 or 4 is looking more likely or Lenovo Carbon series.

Ya... that is actually the more scary part. I remember when Apple was like 'ahhh... we're gonna fully support the PPC architechture... and our BEST PPC products are not even out yet!!!'

Then you went... and bought a Power Mac G5 in December of 2005. Half-way thru the life-cycle of 10.4 Tiger.
10.5 Leopard drops... and it's the last OS you can use... Within 1.5 years your pricey Power Mac has become obsolete...
 
16GB would be plenty of RAM, IF not for all these Electron based apps...... When web dev take over the world it'll be the end of user experience.... As it is Slack takes more memory than Xcode. What kinda garbage is that?
[doublepost=1522727338][/doublepost]
Its funny, when MS announced the ARM based windows, it was net with derision. With this rumor, Apple fans are seemingly embracing this. Now all of a sudden, Intel is the enemy, where as back 2006, intel was apple savior. Of course a lot has changed in the 12 years, and Apple is more then a computer computer. Yet I buy computers from apple for a reason. I'm concerned my needs will not be met with those new machines.

Reason on the difference in reaction is because Microsoft doesn't have a track record of making great custom ARM processors. Apple however, makes the best mobile processor in the world for many generations in a row, sometimes by upto a factor of 4 against the competition. You can't blame some of us from being excited to see what the A division can do when they have a lot more PCB space, TDP and power budget to work with.
 
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This does certainly put my plans influx about future purchases. I was planning to purchase either the 2018 or 2019 MacBook Pro. But if Intel is gonna become some kind of transitional End of Life architecture, I might as well rethink my purchase. Remember Apple only created one more PowerPC compliant OS X after the transition Intel (Leopard). The 2021 release of macOS could follow a similar strategy, being the last Intel release that goes into some weird LTS-quasi-mode.
Surface Book 3 or 4 is looking more likely or Lenovo Carbon series.

Ya... that is actually the more scary part. I remember when Apple was like 'ahhh... we're gonna fully support the PPC architechture... and our BEST PPC products are not even out yet!!!'

Then you went... and bought a Power Mac G5 in December of 2005. Half-way thru the life-cycle of 10.4 Tiger.
10.5 Leopard drops... and it's the last OS you can use... Within 1.5 years your pricey Power Mac has become obsolete...

Anyone who tends to buy higher end and keep their hardware for longer, and anyone who wants to buy to “future proof” for as long as possible could end up being in for an unpleasant surprise...

We are really going to need more info on what Apple is planning long term, but of course they won’t tell us anything like that at all.
 
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So, with the mobile Coffee Lake having been released, there is little missing from a refreshed MBP. Especially the 13" could be replaced at any time now. The 15" is more tricky, since no GPU successor has been announced yet (but then again, we'd likely see some custom AMD design as usual). Interesting note: new mobile Xeon Coffee Lake — seems like they are made exactly for the MBP!
 
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Intel shares drop 9% (!) following Apple's announcement about leaving Intel processors for its own processors.

The upcoming models are still based on the 8th gen of Intel, but Project Kalamata will allow Apple to release non-Intel machines in 1-2 years.

Read that as Project Calamity
 
leman said:
So, with the mobile Coffee Lake having been released, there is little missing from a refreshed MBP. Especially the 13" could be replaced at any time now. The 15" is more tricky, since no GPU successor has been announced yet (but then again, we'd likely see some custom AMD design as usual). Interesting note: new mobile Xeon Coffee Lake — seems like they are made exactly for the MBP!

I must remind all of us that Apple already separated announcements of 13" and 15", several times.
So nothing stops them from releasing a quad 13" (Pro and/or *Retina) in April/May, and postpone the announcement of the new 15" to WWDC.

(*) I mentioned the rMB because there were rumors that a 13" Retina (not 12") is upcoming, but my main point is that even within the MBP family, there is no "rule" that the entire family must be refreshed on the same day.
 
(*) I mentioned the rMB because there were rumors that a 13" Retina (not 12") is upcoming, but my main point is that even within the MBP family, there is no "rule" that the entire family is refreshed on the same day.

The new MB would be probably using Cannon Lake CPUs, which will take some more time...
 
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