Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[turbineseaplane]

I am pretty sure (hope to be wrong) that the Mac Pro will be modular and not a tower. For a simple reason – this way you will only be able to buy 'extensions' from Apple.

The only thing that makes we worried on that, or doubt it a touch, is just that Apple seems to have shown that they aren't interested in selling key additional components beyond a few dongles.

So much of the USB-C frustration for an average user is that Apple hasn't taken it upon themselves to really build out a robust 1st part line of accessories that covers a lot of use cases. They have some, sure, but it's sort of feels like they did the bare minimum and then just are leaving it up to the rest of the tech world to fill in large gaps.

That, frankly, sucks for an Apple customer, who is used to and expects Apple to be the solution to the problems, thus at least part of the price premium they expect.

That LG monitor situation was another similar example. One that went so poorly, they are apparently back in the game of making at least one monitor right now - although I bet that's solely for the Mac Pro purposes.

Pretty odd from a company that liked to tout the full chain of MacBook Pro + Apple Thunderbolt Monitor as your docking solution at one point.

 

[EugW]

I got an awesome deal on my 2017 model the other day at Best Buy. Got the 512GB SSD Model for $2399. $400 was very much worth it over waiting to see what the new model brings.

Good deal. That would likely be cheaper than a 2017 refurb a few months from now, and the 2017 has the multi-media GPU upgrades that the 2015 and 2016 models don't have.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I got an awesome deal on my 2017 model the other day at Best Buy. Got the 512GB SSD Model for $2399. $400 was very much worth it over waiting to see what the new model brings.

Get AppleCare

 

[impulse462]

The only thing that makes we worried on that, or doubt it a touch, is just that Apple seems to have shown that they aren't interested in selling key additional components beyond a few dongles.

So much of the USB-C frustration for an average user is that Apple hasn't taken it upon themselves to really build out a robust 1st part line of accessories that covers a lot of use cases. They have some, sure, but it's sort of feels like they did the bare minimum and then just are leaving it up to the rest of the tech world to fill in large gaps.

That, frankly, sucks for an Apple customer, who is used to and expects Apple to be the solution to the problems, thus at least part of the price premium they expect.

That LG monitor situation was another similar example. One that went so poorly, they are apparently back in the game of making at least one monitor right now - although I bet that's solely for the Mac Pro purposes.

Pretty odd from a company that liked to tout the full chain of MacBook Pro + Apple Thunderbolt Monitor as your docking solution at one point.

If the new display only works with the new MP I’m gonna be pissed. I’ve waited 6+ years for an Apple display

 

[afir93]

If the new display only works with the new MP I’m gonna be pissed. I’ve waited 6+ years for an Apple display

Would there be any technical reason though why it wouldn't work with anything but the new MP? Can't really see that happening.

 

[shoebobs]

If the new display only works with the new MP I’m gonna be pissed. I’ve waited 6+ years for an Apple display

I'm in the same boat for waiting 6+ years or longer. I bought two Dell 21" monitors for about $100 3 years ago as a temporary holdover I figured would last maybe a year. And here we are...

In terms of only working with the new MP - I would be shocked if that were the case - Apple loves money way too much.

 

[Mr. Dee]

What I am really hoping for though with the 2018 model MacBook Pro, is a 15 inch model only with integrated graphics. I'm primarily planning to upgrade just for the screen, but I know the stories behind discrete graphics. Its likely the first part that fails or leads to logic board failure. I'm kinda torn on the Touch Bar. After playing with it a bit, it doesn't seem as bothersome and I haven't heard any complaints from my brother about it.

Part of my issue is that my travels to the US are now in the spring, which means, when I am in the US, we are likely waiting for the 2019 rev a few months later. Hopefully I can have a reason to visit and purchase it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If the new display only works with the new MP I’m gonna be pissed. I’ve waited 6+ years for an Apple display

I didn't mean to imply that - sorry it read that way.

I'm sure it will work with a variety of devices.


What I am arguing is that they are only even making another first party monitor because they are continuing the Mac Pro line and originally they had planned to be done with that and the iMac pro was to be their only high end pro desktop offering.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Add in the P3 display, 2 X USB C, better dGPU (RX 580) keep the full capacity battery, leave the rest of the port solution alone, all with a reliable keyboard.

Unfortunately we're very much stuck with a pointlessly thin, performance limited pretentious notebook with questionable reliability...

Q-6

*Take the 2 TB2 and replace them with TB3 (also fixes the problem of adding USB-C)

Oh and... update the HDMI to 2.0 or 2.1... the 2015 MBP has only 1.4.

 

[afir93]

What I am really hoping for though with the 2018 model MacBook Pro, is a 15 inch model only with integrated graphics. I'm primarily planning to upgrade just for the screen, but I know the stories behind discrete graphics. Its likely the first part that fails or leads to logic board failure.

Really? That's the first time I hear of something like that in regards to the current-gen MBPs; I know there was a MBP generation in 2011 or so which suffered from these issues but were there really any mass failures of the dedicated GPUs in any of the recent MBPs?

Keep in mind that removing the dedicated GPUs from the 15" MBPs would mean a big step-down in graphical performance, which is one of the big appealing factors right now of the 15" model over the 13" one. I can't see Apple giving up that advantage.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Really? That's the first time I hear of something like that in regards to the current-gen MBPs; I know there was a MBP generation in 2011 or so which suffered from these issues but were there really any mass failures of the dedicated GPUs in any of the recent MBPs?

Keep in mind that removing the dedicated GPUs from the 15" MBPs would mean a big step-down in graphical performance, which is one of the big appealing factors right now of the 15" model over the 13" one. I can't see Apple giving up that advantage.

You do realize Apple still sells a iGPU only version of the 15 inch MBP?
You do realize the 2016 15 MBP's had a lot of discrete GPU issues, check the forums from November 2016 forward.
You do realize, not every app requires a discrete GPU.

 

[meme1255]

You do realize Apple still sells a iGPU only version of the 15 inch MBP?
You do realize the 2016 15 MBP's had a lot of discrete GPU issues, check the forums from November 2016 forward.
You do realize, not every app requires a discrete GPU.

It does. And it is easy to explain why it won’t happen again. Intel has stopped manufacturing HQ CPUs with GT3e-class graphics. The last one is in THAT 2015 15”.

 

[afir93]

It does. And it is easy to explain why it won’t happen again. Intel has stopped manufacturing HQ CPUs with GT3e-class graphics. The last one is in THAT 2015 15”.

So issues with dedicated GPUs aren't really a thing anymore from the 2016-MBPs onwards? I did find some reports/articles about graphical issues/glitches with the 2016 MBPs but can't seem to find much about the 2017 ones.

 

[meme1255]

So issues with dedicated GPUs aren't really a thing anymore from the 2016-MBPs onwards? I did find some reports/articles about graphical issues/glitches with the 2016 MBPs but can't seem to find much about the 2017 ones.

Nobody here can say what will happpen in the future - RoHS is THE (pure) evil in regards to durability Even the 2011 line seemed to be okay at first. However, I expect that Apple has designed recent lines with cooling requirements of the dGPU in mind. It is not cheap for them to replace whole line

 

[TheralSadurns]

Nobody here can say what will happpen in the future - RoHS is THE (pure) evil in regards to durability Even the 2011 line seemed to be okay at first. However, I expect that Apple has designed recent lines with cooling requirements of the dGPU in mind. It is not cheap for them to replace whole line

Funny story. I have one of these infamous 2011 machines.

In like May 2012 (when I had it for like 14 months) the GPU died.
I had the Logic Board replaced.
2 months later... the replacement board died with the same issues.

After that... smooth sailing.

 

[impulse462]

I didn't mean to imply that - sorry it read that way.

I'm sure it will work with a variety of devices.


What I am arguing is that they are only even making another first party monitor because they are continuing the Mac Pro line and originally they had planned to be done with that and the iMac pro was to be their only high end pro desktop offering.

makes sense

imac pro is just a weird computer but whatever. it being apples highest end desktop offering though is a truly horrific thought. i'm not sure why people think only small businesses would use a mac pro. i have first hand experience working in engineering labs that use a lot of 3d design software...mac pros galore.

 

[PickUrPoison]

makes sense

imac pro is just a weird computer but whatever. it being apples highest end desktop offering though is a truly horrific thought. i'm not sure why people think only small businesses would use a mac pro. i have first hand experience working in engineering labs that use a lot of 3d design software...mac pros galore.

The iMac Pro will only be the highest end until the new Mac Pro is released. So you’ll be able to purge that truly horrific thought from your head lol.

Many are expecting Apple to provide updated info on the Mac Pro at WWDC. Who knows, they might even be released then! But at least by year end, fingers crossed.

btw I think a year or two from now you’ll see plenty of iMac Pros in engineering labs; they’re great for certain apps/workloads that like multicore CPUs. Many will prefer the new Mac Pro though, esp if they are dual processor.

 

[jeffreyfranz]

Reading the last few pages, getting sadder and angrier as I go. Timmy's emphasis appears to be entirely on marketing, fashion, convergence, and profit margins. OK, it's a business, but Steve seemed to have a real interest in the enthusiast customer base-and in making better computers.

Decades ago I heard the dictum: Form follows function. (First Watt's Nelson Pass, and the products he designs, are an example of the concept in action.) Apple's current management seem to have a different vision.

 

[clangers23]

Reading the last few pages, getting sadder and angrier as I go. Timmy's emphasis appears to be entirely on marketing, fashion, convergence, and profit margins. OK, it's a business, but Steve seemed to have a real interest in the enthusiast customer base-and in making better computers.

Decades ago I heard the dictum: Form follows function. (First Watt's Nelson Pass, and the products he designs, are an example of the concept in action.) Apple's current management seem to have a different vision.

All very true.

And volume as other's have stated. There's a deliberate stack 'em hight element (within the context of high-end), limited lifespan element to Apple products now.

We need to remember that Tim believes an iPad Pro is all the computer everyone needs.

Steve Jobs video of what follows on from an 'innovator' leading an organisation rings out at every product release.

 

[afir93]

And volume as other's have stated. There's a deliberate stack 'em hight element (within the context of high-end), limited lifespan element to Apple products now.

Is there really? Keyboard issues aside, the current MBP line is one of the most future-proof MacBook in years; mobile CPU power has been on a plateau for years now with small incremental rather than big significant upgrades each year, which in turn means that the hardware will continually last longer and longer in terms of CPU power. There are still people on MBPs from 2011 or earlier saying that their machines work fine, I don't think much will change about that when we view the current MBP line a couple years down the road.

The iMac Pro is on similar grounds, with exceptional components all around for its price tag, and I can easily see that most people buying it now still find it usable and suitable for their needs 5-8 years down the road, probably even longer, unless they really really need that additional bit of power future generations might bring. Everything that an iMac Pro or MacBook Pro is able to do right now in a matter of seconds, it will still be able to do 8 years from now.

If anything, I think the lifespan of the average Apple Product is increasing rather than decreasing, seeing as that's also the tendency in Apple's mobile market. The current iPhones and iPads already have more power than many laptops, which means that the average lifespan for, say, an iPhone X is much higher than the one of an iPhone 6 or 6+ where the limited CPU and GPU power and memory became big issues 2-3 years down the road. Many people who previously bought a new phone steadily all 2 years are now more on a 3-4 year update cycle because we've reached a time where the current hardware easily allows that. If you look back into the early days of iPhones and iPads, people were constantly talking about how their current devices were too slow or had too little RAM for any advanced desktop-grade multitasking features and the like.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Is there really? Keyboard issues aside, the current MBP line is one of the most future-proof MacBook in years; mobile CPU power has been on a plateau for years now with small incremental rather than big significant upgrades each year, which in turn means that the hardware will continually last longer and longer in terms of CPU power. There are still people on MBPs from 2011 or earlier saying that their machines work fine, I don't think much will change about that when we view the current MBP line a couple years down the road.

The iMac Pro is on similar grounds, with exceptional components all around for its price tag, and I can easily see that most people buying it now still find it suitable 5-10 years down the road, maybe even longer, unless they really really need that additional bit of power future generations might bring. Everything that an iMac Pro or MacBook Pro is able to do right now in a matter of seconds, it will still be able to do 8 years from now.

If anything, I think the lifespan of the average Apple Product is increasing rather than decreasing, seeing as that's also the tendency in Apple's mobile market. The current iPhones and iPads already have more power than many laptops, which means that the average lifespan for, say, an iPhone X is much higher than the one of an iPhone 6 or 6+ where the limited CPU and GPU power and memory became big issues 2-3 years down the road. Many people who previously bought a new phone steadily all 2 years are now more on a 3-4 year update cycle because we've reached a time where the current hardware easily allows that. If you look back into the early days of iPhones and iPads, people were constantly talking about how their current devices were too slow or had too little RAM for any advanced desktop-grade multitasking features and the like.

Mhh... I partially disagreem, based on personal experience.

I'm still running an iPhone 6 Plus... yes the 1GB RAM IS showing... but I've never kept a phone for 4 years. I always upgraded after 2. Truth be told... part of the reason was that expecting the X, I skipped the 7. Now the X was too expensive and too small (after having gotten used to Plus-sized phone).

I, though, just sold my iPad Air in anticipation of a new iPad Pro @wwdc or in Sept/Oct. Thank god I JUST got rid of it before the Edu Event. Here the 1GB RAM was also becoming more and more of an issue.

With the MacBook Pro. I think they are one of the least future proof in recent memory. Same reason you stated above for iPhones/iPads. 16GB is just not enough RAM. It may be barely enough now. But for future-proofing... it's a no-go.

 

[afir93]

Mhh... I partially disagreem, based on personal experience.

I'm still running an iPhone 6 Plus... yes the 1GB RAM IS showing... but I've never kept a phone for 4 years. I always upgraded after 2. Truth be told... part of the reason was that expecting the X, I skipped the 7. Now the X was too expensive and too small (after having gotten used to Plus-sized phone).

I, though, just sold my iPad Air in anticipation of a new iPad Pro @wwdc or in Sept/Oct. Thank god I JUST got rid of it before the Edu Event. Here the 1GB RAM was also becoming more and more of an issue.

With the MacBook Pro. I think they are one of the least future proof in recent memory. Same reason you stated above for iPhones/iPads. 16GB is just not enough RAM. It may be barely enough now. But for future-proofing... it's a no-go.

So... if you're saying that you're upgrading your iPad and almost your iPhone aswell because of the limited amount of RAM after me saying that many people do just that, aren't you kind of agreeing with me? Not sure where the disagreement there is.

About the MBPs, I agree that the RAM might be one of the factors holding it back some years down the road (although "only" 16GB of RAM on a notebook isn't really comparable to only 1GB of RAM on a tablet with almost the same screen size, amount of pixels and all). I wouldn't call it one of the least future-proof MBPs in recent years because of that though, I mean it's not like previous MBPs had more RAM than that. The longevity of the MBPs improved a lot in a lot of areas over the recent years, RAM just hasn't been one of them yet (although that is kind of Intel's fault more than Apple's, but not gonna dive into that discussion now).

 

[TheralSadurns]

So... if you're saying that you're upgrading your iPad and almost your iPhone aswell because of the limited amount of RAM after me saying that many people do just that, aren't you kind of agreeing with me? Not sure where the disagreement there is.

About the MBPs, I agree that the RAM might be one of the factors holding it back some years down the road (although "only" 16GB of RAM on a notebook isn't really comparable to only 1GB of RAM on a tablet with almost the same screen size, amount of pixels and all). I wouldn't call it one of the least future-proof MBPs in recent years because of that though, I mean it's not like previous MBPs had more RAM than that. The longevity of the MBPs improved a lot in a lot of areas over the recent years, RAM just hasn't been one of them yet (although that is kind of Intel's fault more than Apple's, but not gonna dive into that discussion now).

Ya... you may be right. Well... I still kept my iPad and iPhone for a longer than usual time. Only recently has it really started bothering me...

Concerning the MBPs. Generally... I'm just dis-illusioned and bitter, I guess.
It always comes back to my (repetitive) argument that MBPs had had 16GB since 2011. Which still make these usable TODAY. I just have my doubts that... now that I am constantly hitting the RAM ceiling and stuff just gets more and more RAM hungry... that 16GB will be fine for a Pro-grade machine 2, 3, or 4 years down the road.

Even more so if you think about the fact that the decidedly NOT Pro MacBook ALSO has 16GB.

I'm telling you... by now it really is just the frustration that is speaking. Especially after waiting for quite a few years and having high hopes for the 2016 MBP, hoping it would turn out to be an Apple XPS15, basically.

Without wanting to sound toooo dramatic... but I am really reaching the end of the line. Without any real options.
I need a powerful notebook. I definitely don't want to juggle two machines, it's just too much of a hassle and too expensive in the end (like having a MBP and an iMac Pro). And I truly believe that Windows is just unsuable. Even if I disregard the fact that there's just some things that are completely missing software-wise that I rely on... Windows is just a PAIN to work with (see my previous post a few pages back). So ya. I'm literally reaching the point where I don't know what to do. With the only real option being... to wait UNTIL there is a MBP with 32 or by then preferably 64GB of RAM.
[doublepost=1522667334][/doublepost]Oh and... I REALLY hope Apple finally starts listening. iMac Pro, Mac Pro, and Pro Display all make it seem like they just might. Reading these pages and threads they 100% do. I just hope they also CARE enough... and are not just like

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mr. Dee]

I can't believe anyone would say 16 GBs of RAM is not enough. What the heck are you doing? The Surface Book has 16 GBs of RAM max, the 15 inch 2017 MBP has 16 GBs of RAM max. If you believe its not enough, I think you would be working at Apple already. Sorry, but in this case, the customer is not always right.

I have an Early 2015 MBP 13 inch with 8 GBs of RAM and its more than sufficient for my needs. I have several Word docs open, iTunes running, Firefox and Chrome with lots of tabs, a couple Windows 10 VMs, numerous text files, Slack and it seems to be keeping up just fine.

 

[EugW]

I can't believe anyone would say 16 GBs of RAM is not enough. What the heck are you doing? The Surface Book has 16 GBs of RAM max, the 15 inch 2017 MBP has 16 GBs of RAM max. If you believe its not enough, I think you would be working at Apple already. Sorry, but in this case, the customer is not always right.

I have an Early 2015 MBP 13 inch with 8 GBs of RAM and its more than sufficient for my needs. I have several Word docs open, iTunes running, Firefox and Chrome with lots of tabs, a couple Windows 10 VMs, numerous text files, Slack and it seems to be keeping up just fine.

It’s possible to run a couple of VMs with 8 GB but definitely not recommended. 16 GB much preferred. And for heavier memory usage than yours, 32 GB may be preferred. I know many content creators who consider 16 GB the functional minimum. However, they run iMacs which have a lot more memory size options.

Honestly, it sounds like you may not have bought the right memory configuration, esp. if you want to keep your machine a few years. 8 GB is entry level, and not ideal for someone needing multiple VMs. Even though 8 GB may work, 16 GB may work better with less compromise.