Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[simonmet]

I'm officially in the waiting for the next MBP camp. The Kaby Lake bump was uninspiring and the prices are still too high.

I'm disappointed at the loss of the SD card reader and optical audio from the previous generation, both of which could've been kept in the thinner profile. A nearly 24% reduction in battery capacity however is inexcusable. I would've accepted 10% less on account of the smaller profile and efficiency gains but not so much as to significantly reduce capacity for "Pro" (demanding) workloads.

The initial batches (at least) of the 2016 model shipped with seemingly flawed keyboards and had other early problems. How did it pass internal testing during the design phase and QC during production? I tried a 2017 MBP's keyboard in the Apple shop and at least it seemed to have noticeable haptic feedback across all keys unlike the (early) 2016 models I tried where I couldn't even tell if I'd pressed them half the time - the space bar especially. It still feels and sounds cheaper than the previous generation.

With Canon Lake next year I'm hoping for:

* Return of optical audio
* 6-core CPU in the 15" and 4-core in the 13"
* 32 and 64 GB upgrade options for RAM
* LPDDR4 RAM with a speed bump
* Larger battery capacity of at least 89 W-hour
* Softer/quieter sounding keyboard with a bit more travel
* 120 Hz Pro-Motion and True-Tone screen
* Haptic feedback on the touch bar
* Raised touch bar bringing it closer to the level of the keys but not to a point that could damage the screen.
* Return of SD card reader
* Up to 1 mm thicker to accomodate such changes (especially battery capacity) is acceptable.

That'll do for now. Demanding aren't I!

 

[TheralSadurns]

I posted a poll in a separate thread (there was no way to add it here), with 4 possible designs for a new 15" (or larger) MBP. All would have the best non-Xeon mobile CPU available from Intel on introduction day (Apple often skips upgrades, but rarely uses something that's already old unless the new model isn't out). This could very well mean it has 6 cores. The GPU will continue to be AMD because of Final Cut - Apple is more concerned about their own software than Adobe's.

Here are the options:

1.) Basically like the existing 15", but with 32 GB and a modest GPU upgrade (next year's version of the same level GPU, which could be a low-end mobile Vega for a larger than usual upgrade). It may take a modest hit in battery life, because the extra RAM uses significant power

2.) A "MaxQ" design that's only a little heavier than the existing 15", crams in a much higher-end GPU (along with 32 GB) but has 2 hours of battery life. The MaxQ machines are all in that range, both because the big GPUs suck power and because space normally used for batteries goes to cooling instead.

3.)A 15" with a greater allocation to the GPU and relatively OK battery life, at the cost of significant size and weight - it would be at least as big and heavy as a pre-retina unibody MBP (5.5 lbs) and possibly closer to a pre-unibody design (6.2 lbs) That is in the range of most 15" mobile workstations that aren't specific thin and light models. It could have dual SSDs as an additional benefit.

4.) A 17" thin and light design - even the lightest 17" notebooks like the Razer Blade Pro are around 7 lbs, but you CAN get a higher end GPU, dual SSDs, etc. into a reasonably balanced 17" thin and light, which nobody's done with a 15" - the few 15" machines with big GPUs that aren't thick and heavy have abysmal battery life and other drawbacks. 17" machines also fit a 99 WH battery, and manage decent battery lives.

So far, there's been no interest in a 15" with a higher power GPU, under either set of trade offs (thick and heavy or poor battery life). The 17" has drawn interest, as has the evolutionary upgrade that keeps the design and adds 32 GB of RAM.

Would LOVE no. 4!
As a general ranking for me

4 > 3 > 2 > 1

Power > Portability, because let's face it. Even a 2008 Unibody or 2006 pre-unibody design... is STILL 10x more portable than all the crappy Dell Precision and other workstation class notebooks of today (that I have to, unfortunately, lug around too. And guess what? While I hate them... it works.)

 

[9646829]

I'm waiting for the 2018 MBP so I can get a good deal on a refurb 2017 MBP.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Would LOVE no. 4!
As a general ranking for me

4 > 3 > 2 > 1

Power > Portability, because let's face it. Even a 2008 Unibody or 2006 pre-unibody design... is STILL 10x more portable than all the crappy Dell Precision and other workstation class notebooks of today (that I have to, unfortunately, lug around too. And guess what? While I hate them... it works.)

so many threads on the 17inch....
Apple could simply reduce bezels on the 15.4 and add 3/4s of an inch and it'd be there. Why don't we try like an email campaign to barrage them into it. It would solve the power problems since the bigger laptop would have space for better specs.

 

[TheralSadurns]

so many threads on the 17inch....
Apple could simply reduce bezels on the 15.4 and add 3/4s of an inch and it'd be there. Why don't we try like an email campaign to barrage them into it. It would solve the power problems since the bigger laptop would have space for better specs.

Ah, there have been campaigns alrdy. They never really reached critical mass. Yes a few people really want it... I'm not sure the number is high enough for Apple to notice though. BUT. Should we do something like this... count me in.

 

[powerslave12r]

Here's what I think would be awesome.

Macbook Air with an upgraded screen and replace the Thunderbolt 2.0 with a single USB-C, keep all else the same.

That, is a dream machine right there.

 

[Mindinversion]

6-core 10 nm CPU in the 15" and 4-core in the 13"

Coffee Lake is going to be another spec bump on Kaby lake, and still on 14 nm process. Desktop Coffee lake parts will come with 6 cores, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the mobile space. At best you're talking another 2-5% more performance than Kaby Lake. Sorry to burst the bubble :/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-14nm-coffee-lake-release-date

 

[Dave245]

Coffee Lake is going to be another spec bump on Kaby lake, and still on 14 nm process. Desktop Coffee lake parts will come with 6 cores, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the mobile space. At best you're talking another 2-5% more performance than Kaby Lake. Sorry to burst the bubble :/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-14nm-coffee-lake-release-date

Which is why I don't understand people who are waiting for the 2018 update. If there was a bigger spec or a redesign on the horizon then I could understand, neither is happening since last year was the redesign and it will be just spec bumps for the next few years until there is another redesign.

 

[koyoot]

Coffee Lake is going to be another spec bump on Kaby lake, and still on 14 nm process. Desktop Coffee lake parts will come with 6 cores, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the mobile space. At best you're talking another 2-5% more performance than Kaby Lake. Sorry to burst the bubble :/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-14nm-coffee-lake-release-date

Which is why I don't understand people who are waiting for the 2018 update. If there was a bigger spec or a redesign on the horizon then I could understand, neither is happening since last year was the redesign and it will be just spec bumps for the next few years until there is another redesign.

Mobile chips will get 6 cores in 45W TDP envelope. 28W CPUs which will land in MBP13 will get 4 cores with GT3e GPU.

 

[simonmet]

Coffee Lake is going to be another spec bump on Kaby lake, and still on 14 nm process. Desktop Coffee lake parts will come with 6 cores, but I wouldn't hold my breath on the mobile space. At best you're talking another 2-5% more performance than Kaby Lake. Sorry to burst the bubble :/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-14nm-coffee-lake-release-date

Thanks for that. I kind of realised/figured out not long after posting that this was the case.

So according to Wikipedia Coffee Lake and Canonlake are coming later this year (2H 2017). If Apple skips the minor Coffee Lake refinement, which is highly likely since they don't use every single "generation" and usually skip the very minor ones, they could go straight to Canonlake and refresh the line in early 2018.

Canonlake is a process (die shrink) to 10 nm which should see some significant efficiency and possibly performance gains. I heard up to 30%, not the 2-5% for Coffee Lake.

If they don't increase the core count soon AMD are going to start offering some pretty strong competition in the mobile space. AMD is already a pretty strong contender for the iMac Pro and Mac Pro, though I don't expect Apple will switch just yet. I kind of wish they would though.

 

[koyoot]

Thanks for that. I kind of realised/figured out not long after posting that this was the case.

So according to Wikipedia Coffee Lake and Canonlake are coming later this year (2H 2017). If Apple skips the minor Coffee Lake refinement, which is highly likely since they don't use every single "generation" and usually skip the very minor ones, they could go straight to Canonlake and refresh the line in early 2018.

Canonlake is a process (die shrink) to 10 nm which should see some significant efficiency and possibly performance gains. I heard up to 30%, not the 2-5% for Coffee Lake.

If they don't increase the core count soon AMD are going to start offering some pretty strong competition in the mobile space. AMD is already a pretty strong contender for the iMac Pro and Mac Pro, though I don't expect Apple will switch just yet. I kind of wish they would though.

This year you only will get 5.2W CannonLake CPUs, and 15W that cannot go into MBP(Maybe redesigned Macbook Air). How many times over and over this has to written before people will stop spreading misinformation?

To show you the degree how far Intel is behind with schedule on 10 nm CPUs: Mobile CoffeeLake CPUs are coming Q2 2018!

Why would Intel release Coffee Lake so far behind CannonLake?

 

[Dave245]

Mobile chips will get 6 cores in 45W TDP envelope. 28W CPUs which will land in MBP13 will get 4 cores with GT3e GPU.

If you guys are willing to wait that's great, I'm not having a go at anyone for waiting, personally I haven't updated my 2011 MacBook Pro because I'm waiting to see how the new iPad Pro with iOS 11 will fit into my work needs and so on, I'm tempted to upgrade my 2012 iMac tho as it's my main at home desktop computer.

 

[fokmik]

i think the CannonLake CPU 15W it can go to the 2xtb3 13" MBP

 

[koyoot]

i think the CannonLake CPU 15W it can go to the 2xtb3 13" MBP

No, it cannot because it does not have GT3e GPU. It has GT2, and that would not be improvement.

4Core 15W CPUs are going to be released with CoffeeLake CPUs. Start at 1.8 GHz, and GT3e GPU.

 

[argentum47]

Which is why I don't understand people who are waiting for the 2018 update. If there was a bigger spec or a redesign on the horizon then I could understand, neither is happening since last year was the redesign and it will be just spec bumps for the next few years until there is another redesign.

Waiting for an updated non-TB 15" (13" gets a non-TB so why the neglect on 15"?) or that Macbook actual-Pro Quo mentioned.

 

[Populus]

So the 10nm technology and LPDDR4 won't arrive to MacBook Pros until... 2019? Am I right?
Because Coffee lake is 14nm and don't support LPDDR4, I think.

 

[Dave245]

Waiting for an updated non-TB 15" (13" gets a non-TB so why the neglect on 15"?) or that Macbook actual-Pro Quo mentioned.

You might be waiting forever, I don't think Apple has plans to do a 15" none Touch Bar model. The 13" gets one because it's probably going to replace the Air eventually.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

This year you only will get 5.2W CannonLake CPUs, and 15W that cannot go into MBP(Maybe redesigned Macbook Air). How many times over and over this has to written before people will stop spreading misinformation?

To show you the degree how far Intel is behind with schedule on 10 nm CPUs: Mobile CoffeeLake CPUs are coming Q2 2018!

Why would Intel release Coffee Lake so far behind CannonLake?

How many times do we have to reply that this chart is out dated. Intel has moved it's schdeule up several quarters. You are the one posting misinformation.

 

[GubbyMan]

I just read through this thread. As a 2016 15" MBP owner, the only new feature that would make me jealous is a 120Hz screen.

How many times do we have to reply that this chart is out dated. Intel has moved it's schdeule up several quarters. You are the one posting misinformation.

I haven't been active here since the Skylake days, can you provide a reliable source with info about Intel's updated schedule? Otherwise it seems very unlikely that they will release Coffee lake before Q2.

 

[koyoot]

Desktop Coffee Lake-S CPUs are coming out in Q4 2017. Nowhere I can find information about Intel moving the schedule forward.

 

[The Mercurian]

Guys what intel do is one thing - what Apple does is another. Look how long it took for MBP's to have Kabylake.

 

[chleuasme]

Guys what intel do is one thing - what Apple does is another. Look how long it took for MBP's to have Kabylake.

No. Kaby Lake U mobile chips with Iris 640 or 650 were available since 3 months or so. Same for the H-series with HD630. Apple didn't wait to upgrade the rMBP more than they used to do after Intel releases (Broadwell/SkyLake period as a singularity)

 

[iregret]

I'd like to see them go Ryzen. My 1800X is killing it! Cram that thing in the iMac, then make a mobile version.

 

[asoksevil]

I am done waiting. My 2010 MBA has a display issue that can't be fixed without replacing it... so I'll be buying the 2017 MBP no touch bar as soon as back to school hits my country.

If the 2018 does turn out to be the major redesign, I'll be selling mines for it.

 

[danwells]

There is really no way the 2018 will be a major redesign - the 2016 was, and Apple is on a 3-4 year cycle. There is also very little chance that any of the upcoming processor upgrades is a great one - Kaby was surprisingly decent at 20% or so (split among a number of places, but reviews are saying that the 2017 MBP is 20% faster than the 2016), but most of them are 5-10%. There are a few things that could be worth waiting for.

1.) potential added model at the top. Reliable analysts (Ming-Chi Kuo among others) are saying that Apple is looking into a MBP that will support 32 GB RAM, and that could also have some other high-end features. This is NOT a redesign of the existing 15" or especially the 13". The analysts didn't explicitly say that it would be like the iMac Pro, but that might be one way to think about it.

2.)GPU. We'll see a mobile Vega at some point (probably the first update after AMD releases a mobile part in the right power range), and that IS significant. GPUs are still getting close to a doubling in power each major generation. Don't expect nVidia - everything out there suggests that Final Cut loves AMD, and Apple's not about to slow their in-house software down to help Adobe! Don't expect anything except a 35-45 watt GPU - both Apple and the PC workstation manufacturers use that level of GPU in their 15" machines. The only possible exception is if an added top model materializes, especially if it turns out to be larger than 15".

3.) Battery. Apple does like new battery technologies and form factors, and could easily increase the battery capacities in both the 13" and 15" if they can figure out how to cut the weight somewhere else (or they use a lighter chemistry).