Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[mdbradigan]

So close to pulling trigger on SB2, Lenovo X1 Yoga, or Aero 15X at this point... I'd rather buy a MBP, but can't stand this generation's keyboard, and the price to value ratio is... not there. Am afraid that, even with a new processor come June, it's not going to be much better. Gah. If it's just a spec bump, I would hope that Apple would announce it in the next week or two, now that quad and hex chip laptops are shipping come 4/16. Having to wait another two months and then receiving nothing more than a spec bump will be... salt in the wound.

 

[gobikerider]

So close to pulling trigger on SB2, Lenovo X1 Yoga, or Aero 15X at this point... I'd rather buy a MBP, but can't stand this generation's keyboard, and the price to value ratio is... not there. Am afraid that, even with a new processor come June, it's not going to be much better. Gah. If it's just a spec bump, I would hope that Apple would announce it in the next week or two, now that quad and hex chip laptops are shipping come 4/16. Having to wait another two months and then receiving nothing more than a spec bump will be... salt in the wound.

The spec bump is a huge one though..not to mention the possibility of a revised keyboard.

 

[clangers23]

I am still convinced that the battery capacity reduction is worse than Apple has expected - They have the terraced battery technology in the MacBook, although for some reason they could not use it (yet?).

That's the apparent reason, they weren't ready to go with the newer battery technology.

I still think the underlying issue is the choice they've made for a smaller battery offset by more effective power conservation. This results in a narrower usage profile for the battery duration claims. Hammer the system and you negate the power conservation and end up dependent on an inherently smaller battery design.

We've seen this from several smartphone manufacturers over the last couple of generations, where the battery size has been reduced on the alter of thinner design but they claim the same or even longer battery duration.

As for the Macbook keyboard fiasco, it goes to the heart of everything that is wrong with Apple. Release a flawed design backed up by unserviceable construction resulting in abhorrent costs to the consumer for replacing a single key failure. It's laughable they have the cheek to call them 'Pro' devices.

 

[fokmik]

Someone already said that the "terraced battery" probably will never come to MBP because of the battery life degradation

 

[Gata]

Someone already said that the "terraced battery" probably will never come to MBP because of the battery life degradation

Also because the terraced battery was introduced to deal with the fact that in an angled design, a regular rectangular battery wound up being unable to take up the footprint it would normally be afforded in a notebook.

The Macbook Pro, on the other hand, already has a more "boxy"/rectangular design, and as such, won't benefit from the new design.

 

[fokmik]

Also because the terraced battery was introduced to deal with the fact that in an angled design, a regular rectangular battery wound up being unable to take up the footprint it would normally be afforded in a notebook.

The Macbook Pro, on the other hand, already has a more "boxy"/rectangular design, and as such, won't benefit from the new design.

Agreed !

 

[afir93]

Also because the terraced battery was introduced to deal with the fact that in an angled design, a regular rectangular battery wound up being unable to take up the footprint it would normally be afforded in a notebook.

The Macbook Pro, on the other hand, already has a more "boxy"/rectangular design, and as such, won't benefit from the new design.

Keep in mind though that a terraced design wouldn't need to have as many "rows" as the one of the 12" MB in order to be helpful. Right now, there are some noticeable empty gaps in the interior of the MBP (see step 3, photo 2 of the iFixit teardown for example), and the vertical space in these gaps isn't the same everywhere. The chambers in which the batteries lie inside also aren't just rectangular but more sophisticatedly shaped.

I imagine it would be very difficult to fill out these gaps using only conventional block-shaped batteries. Terraced batteries on the other hand that are more adapted to the exact interior of the MBP could help fill these gaps as good as possible and maximize battery life.

 

[sputnikBA]

Keep in mind though that a terraced design wouldn't need to have as many "rows" as the one of the 12" MB in order to be helpful. Right now, there are some noticeable empty gaps in the interior of the MBP (see step 3, photo 2 of the iFixit teardown for example), and the vertical space in these gaps isn't the same everywhere. The chambers in which the batteries lie inside also aren't just rectangular but more sophisticatedly shaped.

I imagine it would be very difficult to fill out these gaps using only conventional block-shaped batteries. Terraced batteries on the other hand that are more adapted to the exact interior of the MBP could help fill these gaps as good as possible and maximize battery life.

I had also hoped for terraced batteries, but now part of me suspects they don't want to fill that space because of battery expansion in later life of the device. Remember that the devices are thinner than ever and when the batteries do start swelling they need what little space is there to prevent too much pressure being on them.

 

[Falhófnir]

I had also hoped for terraced batteries, but now part of me suspects they don't want to fill that space because of battery expansion in later life of the device. Remember that the devices are thinner than ever and when the batteries do start swelling they need what little space is there to prevent too much pressure being on them.

It might also be a heat thing, you don’t really want things packed right together if you can help it

 

[Queen6]

So close to pulling trigger on SB2, Lenovo X1 Yoga, or Aero 15X at this point... I'd rather buy a MBP, but can't stand this generation's keyboard, and the price to value ratio is... not there. Am afraid that, even with a new processor come June, it's not going to be much better. Gah. If it's just a spec bump, I would hope that Apple would announce it in the next week or two, now that quad and hex chip laptops are shipping come 4/16. Having to wait another two months and then receiving nothing more than a spec bump will be... salt in the wound.

Aero 15X is looking really strong, going to be a great year for notebooks

Pity Apple became solely obsessed with just making things thinner

Q-6

 

[afir93]

I had also hoped for terraced batteries, but now part of me suspects they don't want to fill that space because of battery expansion in later life of the device. Remember that the devices are thinner than ever and when the batteries do start swelling they need what little space is there to prevent too much pressure being on them.

I don't know... when/if the battery starts swelling up, it's probably time to get it serviced either way as it might pose a potential safety risk. And batteries usually don't just expand in a single direction either; these gaps wouldn't leave them any room to swell up- or downwards so I can't imagine it would help that much.

And outside of that, I can't think of any other Apple devices that ever left room to account for swelling batteries; it's usually quite the opposite actually. Why would they randomly leave that space for swelling in the MBPs but not in the 12" MB with its terraced battery, or in the iPhones, iPads, etc.?

The most likely explanation is that they (as rumors suggested) originally planned for a more terraced battery design that wraps closely around the edges of the battery chambers, similar to what we have in the 12" MBs, but then had to back paddle to the old design when the terraced design caused some issues that they couldn't fix fast enough, so they just put in block batteries instead. I don't think it was a deliberate decision from Apple to put in these gaps for battery swelling or for better cooling (they don't seem to be connected to the airflow anyway), and if they are able to get rid of them in one of the next iterations with the goal of longer battery life, I suppose that's what they'll do.

 

[fokmik]

Aero 15X is looking really strong, going to be a great year for notebooks
Pity apple become solely obsessed with just making things thinner

Q-6

dont you see now even gaming laptops are becoming thinner ?! 5 years ago....

 

[mdbradigan]

dont you see now even gaming laptops are becoming thinner ?! 5 years ago....

There's nothing wrong with thinner - thinner is great! But - there IS a problem with making things thinner to the exclusion of ports and power and then not giving users a choice between those two options. I love the look of the new MBP. The size and weight are great. But - if I had the option to add the 94 watt-hour battery of the Aero 15x, the normal-ish keyboard, the large port selection, the new 6-core chip plus its ability to supremely easily add 32GB ram, which would, admittedly, lower the battery life by a couple of hours and add both thickness and heft to the laptop (and that's FINE for my needs) - I would buy this in a HEARTBEAT.

I get that some people value thin and light over power. That's great - they should have a product to choose from in the Apple line-up. But some people value power over thin and light - and we should have a product to purchase also.

Granted, we are likely the minority, hence Apple's current decision making. But - if Apple doesn't offer a powerful laptop, and we need one - we're likely to go elsewhere.

I vastly prefer MacOS to Windows 10.... but if you asked me to choose between the 2018 Aero 15x for $2,500 vs a lesser specced 2017 MBP for $2,999...I'm not sure I'm inclined to spend $500 for the pleasure of using MacOS on the go. Might go Aero and save the money for a potential Mac Pro in 2019. If the 2018 repairs the keyboard and adds a DDR4 6-core giving me 32 GB as an option for under $3,200? Sold. I'll pay a ~$400-$700 apple tax for good hardware + good software.

However, if all they do is add a 6-core LP version with 16GB max and keep the v2 butterfly keyboard, and then try to tell me they are competitive against others for my needs... I will likely vote with my wallet for their competition. I don't want to... but MS, Gigabyte, Dell, Lenovo - they are making products that excite me. Apple - they are making products that I have to accept compromises to use. Is...unfortunate.

 

[leman]

Pity Apple became solely obsessed with just making things thinner

Everything is becoming thinner... MacBooks are becoming thinner while retaining and/or improving their performance, gaming laptops are becoming thinner, workstations are becoming thinner. It’s not like the previous-gen thicker MBPs were any closer to the contemporary gaming laptops... the engineering tradeoffs are still exactly the same as yers ago, and so are the apros and cons of the MBP in comparison to a gaming laptop.
[doublepost=1523195409][/doublepost]@mdbradigan except they didn’t sacrifice any power... they didn’t cut the TDP of the CPU (unlike some other companies) and they didn’t downgrade the GPU either. You get exactly the same spec (relative to contemporary tech) as with any previous MBP. And ports... in objective terms, the ports are a clear upgrade. And you’d be hard pressed to find a laptop that offers more flexible IO. Yes, you might need to use hubs or adapters for your specific case. That has nothing to do with “power”. And making the computer thicker just to boast that it has an Ethernet port is plain stupid nowadays.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Aero 15X is looking really strong, going to be a great year for notebooks

Pity Apple became solely obsessed with just making things thinner

Q-6

Watching this video now...
Makes we want to cry with how much more feature complete this machine is vs current MBP's..

 

[mdbradigan]

Everything is becoming thinner... MacBooks are becoming thinner while retaining and/or improving their performance, gaming laptops are becoming thinner, workstations are becoming thinner. It’s not like the previous-gen thicker MBPs were any closer to the contemporary gaming laptops... the engineering tradeoffs are still exactly the same as yers ago, and so are the apros and cons of the MBP in comparison to a gaming laptop.
[doublepost=1523195409][/doublepost]@mdbradigan except they didn’t sacrifice any power... they didn’t cut the TDP of the CPU (unlike some other companies) and they didn’t downgrade the GPU either. You get exactly the same spec (relative to contemporary tech) as with any previous MBP. And ports... in objective terms, the ports are a clear upgrade. And you’d be hard pressed to find a laptop that offers more flexible IO. Yes, you might need to use hubs or adapters for your specific case. That has nothing to do with “power”. And making the computer thicker just to boast that it has an Ethernet port is plain stupid nowadays.

"And you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop that offers more flexible IO"? The Aero 15x has thunderbolt 3 + usb A + hdmi + an ultra-fast card reader. This is "less flexible" than the MBP which offers only one port type? Not sure I understand this logic. Can I do more with the 4 TB3 ports? Sure - with dongles. Without dongles - no, no I can't. So - in an Aero 15x or a Lenovo X1 Yoga I can get the joys of TB3 *plus* keep some legacy ports around that will undoubtedly be useful in current real-world scenarios, and keep dongles out of my bag. That said, the dongle / input thing is the least of my concerns. Give me a real keyboard, a fast processor, and 32 GB of RAM. The Aero does 3/3 with the ram shipping at 16GB and being incredibly easy to add to - they even went with a single stick, so I only need to buy one more...rather nice of them. The MBP has incredibly fast ssds - great! But the keyboard is...not to my tastes, and the ram is too low for a $3k computer. You appear to be comparing this generation's MBP solely with last generations? That's fine - the 2017 IS an upgrade over the 2015 in many respects. But you can't compare these things in a vacuum. For $2,500, you can get VERY compelling options like the Aero 15x and Lenovo X1 Yoga which beat the MBP in all areas except for OS. Apple isn't competing in a vacuum. They are the only ones with their software, and this is a huge competitive advantage. But - if they don't offer a range of products that competitors DO, and often for a good deal less $, then eventually I'm going to switch, regardless of OS. They don't get to charge a premium for a lesser product and get to keep my business.

Note - I'm a HUGE fan of Apple. I think they do amazing things. I just don't think the current MBP is one of those things, and it's too bad. I want it to be better.

 

[Queen6]

dont you see now even gaming laptops are becoming thinner ?! 5 years ago....

Yes, equally they are not sacrificing usability, performance & reliability for the sake of it...

Q-6
[doublepost=1523204088][/doublepost]

Watching this video now...
Makes we want to cry with how much more feature complete this machine is vs current MBP's..

This is exactly the type of notebook I use now, they really are fully featured and offer tremendous performance in a portable platform. Such notebooks are scalable, tremendously fast; need more storage and RAM not a problem, dongles not required

Aero 15X is just 18mm and more than portable enough, want more it's sibling the Aorus X9 delivers. Is really going to be a great year for Windows notebooks, Mac's not so much as they'll likely just fall further behind. Apple will just do a "spec bump" with Tim & Co furiously working out how to charge more for a Hex Core

As the man said the Areo 15X is perfect for those that want to game, more importantly need to deliver As with all there's a balance to be struck, sadly Apple is so overly fixated on producing thinner products, that it has forgotten that people need to use them in anger where usability and practicality matters, not just looking good with a coffee...

Q-6

 

[fokmik]

"Yes, equally they are not sacrificing usability, performance & reliability for the sake of it..."
Neither apple...remember my 2017 i still use it, no problems and i get in LOW usage about 10 and a half battery life...i bet not one of these gaming thin laptops can deliver this even in the same low usage...
yes they have more travel to the keys...<-but this used to love when i had all of the 2016 MBP with all of the keyboard issues...now, since i dont have those issues, i love the keyboard, and i have them for 16 weeks now, those 2016 models...the first one had the V and Y key lost after 2 days...and in just 10 days all of them where having issues
For me having 4 TB 3 is the way to go..if i could HAVE 4 TB3 AND another usb-A SD card, then yes...but i think we dont have any laptops with 4 TB3 and another ports right?
Since the new MBP is more powerful than the old one, and along side i get a thiner and lighter PORTABLE device...im very very happy
Im also waiting to buy the new 15" and hoping for an Vega dGPU

 

[c0ppo]

remember my 2017 i still use it, no problems and i get in LOW usage about 10 and a half battery life...i bet not one of these gaming thin laptops can deliver this even in the same low usage...

You get 10h+ with your MBP? What do you do on it? When I fire up Unity3D + Blender + Affinity Photo/Designer + Visual Studio, I can't get more then 4h30min. Probably couldn't get even that.

But if all you do is some light tasks, then even MBP is a complete overkill.

 

[EugW]

You get 10h+ with your MBP? What do you do on it? When I fire up Unity3D + Blender + Affinity Photo/Designer + Visual Studio, I can't get more then 4h30min. Probably couldn't get even that.

But if all you do is some light tasks, then even MBP is a complete overkill.

I betcha if you tried that on a 32 GB gaming laptop, you’d get about 2-3 hrs.

 

[Queen6]

I betcha if you tried that on a 32 GB gaming laptop, you’d get about 2-3 hrs.

Betcha 4-5 and that's with no iGPU, GTX 1070 & 32Gb RAM, those with iGPU can push 7-8 hours. I own one so I actually know...

Such notebooks are designed for performance, while Apple simply wants to present an impression of professional grade hardware...

Q-6

 

[fokmik]

You get 10h+ with your MBP? What do you do on it? When I fire up Unity3D + Blender + Affinity Photo/Designer + Visual Studio, I can't get more then 4h30min. Probably couldn't get even that.

But if all you do is some light tasks, then even MBP is a complete overkill.

hey hey, i said LOW USAGE i dont put affinity photo on low usage...or unity 3D...for me low usage is itunes or safari, mail, office, facetime,notes
Where did i said that i do ONLY low usage?...but when im doing ,when im traveling i love to have an 10 hours device to use

 

[EugW]

Betcha 4-5 and that's with no iGPU, GTX 1070 & 32Gb RAM, those with iGPU can push 7-8 hours. I own one so I actually know...

Such notebooks are designed for performance, while Apple simply wants to present to impression of professional grade hardware...

Q-6

Which one and how heavy? I can tell ya a lot do much worse than that.

 

[fokmik]

Betcha 4-5 and that's with no iGPU, GTX 1070 & 32Gb RAM, those with iGPU can push 7-8 hours. I own one so I actually know...

Such notebooks are designed for performance, while Apple simply wants to present to impression of professional grade hardware...

Q-6

i dont think Apple wants for you to think that MBP is strictly for professional grade...but FOR an OVERALL, do well whatever device...even Apple put the professional for those who use xeon 8-18 cores, that need at least 32 gb ram or 128 gb ram, up to 4 TB and 4x TB3, and usb-A, and sd card
So i think Apple wants you to take the imac PRO if you intend to do ONLY heavy professional work
and probably the next mac pro
[doublepost=1523211947][/doublepost]"It's certainly possible Apple could have a wave of press releases tomorrow detailing availability of the (PRODUCT)RED edition iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus, gold iPhone X, and its AirPower charging mat."

Maybe an also press release for the new MBP ?!

 

[leman]

And you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop that offers more flexible IO"? The Aero 15x has thunderbolt 3 + usb A + hdmi + an ultra-fast card reader. This is "less flexible" than the MBP which offers only one port type? Not sure I understand this logic.

I guess this is a question of terminology. With its 4 TB3 ports, the MPB can support many more I/O configurations — which laptops like the Aero can't simply because they don't have enough bandwidth. Yes, you would need dongles — which is irrelevant to the discussion about the computer's capabilities. You can argue that the MBP is less convenient to use for being with an existing legacy peripherals, or that it carries additional cost of dongle acquisition, but this doesn't make it less powerful. Not to mention that dongles are a matter of perspective. In the office, I use a USB-C monitor, USB-C backup disk and an USB-C video adapter that I need for meetings/conferences (which includes VGA output). The legacy ports on the Aero are useless to me because I don't have anything to plug into them.

You appear to be comparing this generation's MBP solely with last generations? That's fine - the 2017 IS an upgrade over the 2015 in many respects. But you can't compare these things in a vacuum. For $2,500, you can get VERY compelling options like the Aero 15x and Lenovo X1 Yoga which beat the MBP in all areas except for OS.

No, I am comparing the MPB to other laptops that exist at the same time. It was always the case that you could buy a faster laptop with a beefier GPU and more out-of-the-box ports. And the tradeoff is always the same — inferior battery life (the Aero with 4K screen will probably offer you half of what the MBP can do), cheaper components (e.g. WiFi), trackpad, speakers) and so on.

I do agree that in the recent time many have almost caught up with Apple in their game of building fast, high quality portable laptops. Computers like the XPS 15" are getting very close and definitely surpassing the MBP in some key areas.