Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[TheralSadurns]

Usually Apple calls them new until the new ones come out,

That cannot be true! If the MacBook Pro or any other device was labeled as 'new' until the next one came out... then the next one would also get the label 'new'. Then ALL devices would have to have said label... ALWAYS. Which they don't.

But your guess is as good as mine... as to when they remove it.

 

[shoebobs]

I think one improvement to the Touch Bar that a lot of people would accept would be to keep the physical esc button but to have the Touch Bar for everything else in the function key row.

That would be enough to make me at least be able to live with the touch bar. I use Vim constantly, and not having a physical Esc key would be a really bad experience.

I however hope a MBP redesign comes next year at the latest, as it could give us some good insight into whether Apple has plans for the TB in the future. I think if they have now realized the touch bar is a flop, they will drop it at the next redesign and tout the benefits of more room for battery or some other misdirection. In the recent article about the Mac Pro, they mentioned iPads and iPhones being part of an integrated Mac/iOS work flow. I could see Apple shifting touch bar controls to these devices - on your phone when on the go, and on your iPad when docked at home, thus making it no longer necessary to dedicate real estate to it on the MBP.

I’m still skeptical they see any future in it however - it’s barely mentioned anymore, and you would think it would’ve been included in the latest magic keyboard with numpad if it was a focus.

It will also be interesting to see if they put any focus on it during WWDC. If the developer community doesn’t put any effort in developing its potential usefulness, it’ll be increasingly difficult to market it as a selling point.

 

[c0ppo]

If the developer community doesn’t put any effort in developing its potential usefulness

As a developer, I can't even look at TB without being disgusted. So no plans on developing anything for it. Not now, not in the future. Every developer that I know doesn't want the TB, we want physical keys.

 

[AdamA9]

I think it's fair to be unhappy with current prices. Or if you want Apple to update prices more often because of currency fluctuations, then that's maybe also fair. But that isn't really the problem. Mac products seem to have a price premium of somewhere between 30-50% over comparable products, and that appears (to me) to be a fairly global issue. That's Apple asking for something like a 3x profit margin compared to other manufacturers. That's imo where you should be focusing, not on whether it's temporarily 4% more in one country or other.

Apple tax I can deal with and have dealt with for years. An additional tax because of currency fluctuations that are quick to go in Apple's favor and not so quick back the other way is not something I can deal with.

 

[leman]

However, with regards to specs - the competition has caught up (and kudos to Apple for forcing them to, no doubt), and now I'm left with ... trackpad, speakers, OS in the "pro" column. That's not enough. Apple needs to step up their game, or their competition is going to take their high-end market away from them. Lose enough of the "halo" market, and you lose the content creators, etc. that drive the massively more powerful and lucrative consumer market.

Yes, thats what happening right now. But its also rather tricky, since there eis not much one can do. Apple's decisive advantage always was better craftsmanship and attention to detail. They've never offered particularly high performance, but the quality of the assembly and selection of internal components such as capacitors/display/trackpad etc. was always a level or two above competition. The MacBook Pro was a truly premium machine while everyone else was trying to cut costs down with their wobbly plastic bricks.

These days, PC manufacturers realised that people are willing to pay more for a better built machine, and so almost everyone has some sort of premium (and really premium!) model in their portfolio. As a consequence, prices of PC laptops rose significantly and are now on par or even higher than the MBP, but the quality is also matching.

Frankly, under these circumstances I see only one way for Apple to step up their game, and this is proprietary technology. Its like with iPhone X front camera — nobody except Apple knows how to build camera module so small, so this tech is not coming to any other phone anytime soon. They tried to do something similar with the Touchbar — and even if I like it I must admit that the success was far from overwhelming. What else can they do? The iMac Pro approach with the T2 chip looks like a promising idea, maybe high-performance ARM chips down the line. Some sort of new display tech maybe. At any rate, attention to detail is not enough anymore...

 

[fokmik]

The next big thing in macs display should be promotion rather than more useless ppi increase....i wonder if Apple can do it without increasing too much the price ?! in macs is still possible since they are LCD and not OLED

 

[sputnikBA]

Regarding tradeoffs though, I just wish Apple would offer us some choice across the notebook line to emphasize different tradeoffs as per the needs of a given consumer.

Exactly. This is the whole point of bifurcation - split the lines so you can focus on different priorities that better serve your customers.

Apple forgot that and now we have a MacBook Air, a 12” Macbook that is a better Air than the Air, a 13” MacBook Pro which is also basically a better Air than the Air, and MacBook “Pros” that are designed with thinness as a priority at the cost of;

- batteries that went down from 99.5Wh down to 76Wh
- keyboards that are faulting much higher than they should be, while being expensive to replace as they require a whole block to be swapped out
- a protective charging solution that would save your expensive laptop being pulled off a table

An additional tax because of currency fluctuations that are quick to go in Apple's favor and not so quick back the other way is not something I can deal with.

Also I hope they don’t drip feed the currency rate fixes as each model is replaced — because when they raised the prices they had no problem raising all prices simultaneously.

 

[bykaraanne]

In the meantime you can use a USB-C device with a USB-C to USB-A adapter for older machines. Those adapters are something like US$6.

Yep, I got a USB-C to USB-A port hub on Lazada. No way I’m paying for the crazy USB-C port hub prices hahaha.

 

[T_Oscura]

What I really fear right now is that the updated MBPs won't get Vega mobile graphics, but the updated RX 500X series instead. Of course we don't know anything about these cards yet, so this is just speculation at the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be just another rebrand of the Radeon 400 series like the 500 was last year, with a 5-10% higher performance. Meanwhile the Dell XPS 9570 got an 1050 Ti Max-Q, which beats the 1050 by around 15-20%.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

What I really fear right now is that the updated MBPs won't get Vega mobile graphics, but the updated RX 500X series instead. Of course we don't know anything about these cards yet, so this is just speculation at the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be just another rebrand of the Radeon 400 series like the 500 was last year, with a 5-10% higher performance. Meanwhile the Dell XPS 9570 got an 1050 Ti Max-Q, which beats the 1050 by around 15-20%.

Yeah I'm curious what Apple's options are here. You would think they would go Vega for better power management with as powerful a combo as possible. No leaks yet but I'm waiting to see this as well. I think Apple will want at least one MBP be a high power VR ready variant

 

[EugW]

Yeah I'm curious what Apple's options are here. You would think they would go Vega for better power management with as powerful a combo as possible. No leaks yet but I'm waiting to see this as well. I think Apple will want at least one MBP be a high power VR ready variant

Timing is an issue. They could release soon with Polaris, or wait many months for Vega.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What if they do nothing at all because the team (or some of them at least) got assigned to go help with full steam ahead on the new Mac Pro, which wasn't even going to be a "thing" a year ago, and thus wasn't staffed at all.

 

[afir93]

What if they do nothing at all because the team (or some of them at least) got assigned to go help with full steam ahead on the new Mac Pro, which wasn't even going to be a "thing" a year ago, and thus wasn't staffed at all.

I don't know, it wouldn't seem very much like Apple to neglect the possibly best-selling and most important Mac product lineup that they currently have in favor of what is essentially a very niche market. If anything, I'd rather expect the opposite, that the Mac Pro is taking them so long to re-engineer because they don't have enough people working on it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I don't know, it wouldn't seem very much like Apple to neglect the possibly best-selling and most important Mac product lineup that they currently have

You mean the MacBook Air people still love and buy today despite it's neglect?

lol - sorry - couldn't resist.

My overarching point is that Apple seems to do whatever it wants for its own reasons.
If they were about customer demand on features and tradeoffs, the notebook lineup would be WILDLY different looking.

Remember - they were surprised the TouchBar wasn't a huge hit and lauded feature (they worked on it for a long time apparently) and also surprised by the somewhat tepid reaction to the 2016 MBP release. They thought it was a home run and in reality it was a base hit...maybe a double if we are being charitable here.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Timing is an issue. They could release soon with Polaris, or wait many months for Vega.

I don't think we'll see new MBP w/. ntill WWDC - Is Vega gonna be ready by then?

 

[Naimfan]

Remember - they were surprised the TouchBar wasn't a huge hit and lauded feature (they worked on it for a long time apparently) and also surprised by the somewhat tepid reaction to the 2016 MBP release. They thought it was a home run and in reality it was a base hit...maybe a double if we are being charitable here.

More like reached on an error . . .

 

[sputnikBA]

The thing is, the touch bar is a really good idea conceptually.

Watch from 05:06-08:02 from the original iPhone introduction where Steve talks about hardware buttons and the benefits of a touchscreen kb. This is how they should have talked about TB and marketed it... and too a degree they did, but then ruined that by marketing it heavily with emoji.

Now when people think about it they don't think about all of the fantastic things that it could be... in their minds its an emoji bar that jacked up the price by 300 bucks. For TB to really get a better reputation though Apple needs to do several things:

- Bring the price down so it doesn't increase the premium on already-premiumly priced hardware
- Bring it to all other Macs going forward. I mean, imagine if only one model of iPod ever had the scroll wheel — Sacrifice the Touch ID & secure enclave components if you have to so you can get it in the wireless KBs for desktop Macs (go with face ID for authentication instead).
- Work hard to encourage developers to support it in all kinds ways to enhance their apps, financial incentives (or otherwise) if necessary. Not just large apps from popular multi-platform vendors — the smaller / mid size "only on OS X" apps have always been the strength of the platform so focus there.
- loosen up on a few of the guidelines preventing developers from doing some cool stuff with the TB & sherlock some of Better Touch Tool's functionality for TB (but with a better interface for customising it)

 

[EugW]

I don't think we'll see new MBP w/. ntill WWDC - Is Vega gonna be ready by then?

That's the $2000 question.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The thing is, the touch bar is a really good idea conceptually.

Watch from 05:06-08:02 from the original iPhone introduction where Steve talks about hardware buttons and the benefits of a touchscreen kb. This is how they should have talked about TB and marketed it... and too a degree they did, but then ruined that by marketing it heavily with emoji.

Now when people think about it they don't think about all of the fantastic things that it could be... in their minds its an emoji bar that jacked up the price by 300 bucks. For TB to really get a better reputation though Apple needs to do several things:

- Bring the price down so it doesn't increase the premium on already-premiumly priced hardware
- Bring it to all other Macs going forward. I mean, imagine if only one model of iPod ever had the scroll wheel — Sacrifice the Touch ID & secure enclave components if you have to so you can get it in the wireless KBs for desktop Macs (go with face ID for authentication instead).
- Work hard to encourage developers to support it in all kinds ways to enhance their apps, financial incentives (or otherwise) if necessary. Not just large apps from popular multi-platform vendors — the smaller / mid size "only on OS X" apps have always been the strength of the platform so focus there.
- loosen up on a few of the guidelines preventing developers from doing some cool stuff with the TB & sherlock some of Better Touch Tool's functionality for TB (but with a better interface for customising it)

The huge difference is that the keyboard region on a laptop (and especially a desktop) is something you should be looking at as little as possible (and less and less the more experienced you are), whereas a touchscreen device has you always looking where you are touching.

Also, on mobile devices where size is a huge constraint, having an interface that can change to be what's needed at that moment is far more important than in a laptop or desktop scenario with hardly any space concerns (generally speaking).

Barring some shockingly great haptics, including some way to change the physical surface texture (faux buttons), a touch bar as currently implemented (in terms of location) will always be in a bad place and force you to change contexts and focus too much.

It is pretty amazing to see the mental gymnastics that Apple is forcing themselves through by on one hand telling us that touchscreens are a bad experience on a laptop or desktop due to the screen orientation, while on the other hand selling how great the iPad Pro is when docked with their keyboard case that holds the iPad Pro up in the exact orientation that is, for some reason they can't explain, a big problem for the laptops if they were to have a touchscreen.

Makes. No. Sense.

 

[zmon]

Yeah I'm curious what Apple's options are here. You would think they would go Vega for better power management with as powerful a combo as possible. No leaks yet but I'm waiting to see this as well. I think Apple will want at least one MBP be a high power VR ready variant

I'd be surprised if they don't use Intel's G variant chips with Vega graphics, but it seems those have no support for LPDDR3 so that's most likely a farfetched theory. No announcements on any Vega discrete chips for mobile yet otherwise, so it'll most likely just be a speed bumped Radeon Pro 550/560 variant.

You mean the MacBook Air people still love and buy today despite it's neglect?

lol - sorry - couldn't resist.

My overarching point is that Apple seems to do whatever it wants for its own reasons.
If they were about customer demand on features and tradeoffs, the notebook lineup would be WILDLY different looking.

Remember - they were surprised the TouchBar wasn't a huge hit and lauded feature (they worked on it for a long time apparently) and also surprised by the somewhat tepid reaction to the 2016 MBP release. They thought it was a home run and in reality it was a base hit...maybe a double if we are being charitable here.

Funnily enough, the MBA is still fairly popular with college students at least who want a cheap Apple laptop.

Meh, IMO, the touchbar is a neat concept, but I'd really kill for an option to have the touchbar WITH the F keys. I'm sure it wouldn't of hurt to shrink that massive touchpad a bit.

 

[Poki]

I do not think Apple would wait vor Vega if it's not ready when they decide to launch the MBP. There's always some new technology they could wait for, but at some point, they just need to release a new model.

Some points on why I think the next MacBook Pro might arrive sooner rather than later:

• Apple recently dropped the "new" tag from the MacBook Pros "Buy" page, while they kept it for the iMac and MacBook, which were announced at the same day.
• Delivery times of standard and especially CTO orders on the MacBook Pro are very long in some countries. For example, in Germany, the standard models are not in stock, and the CTO models take three weeks to deliver. In many other countries, the CTO models at least take a few days longer than CTO models of other Macs.
• All chips needed from Intel are already in announced an in mass production by now.
• The competition has a time advantage with Intel's 15W quad-core CPUs shipping since last September, and now they're selling notebooks with six-core H-series chips, far outperforming Apple's offerings. With performance gains north of 40%, I can't imagine Apple wants to stay behind longer than they need to.
• The current MacBook Pro was announced 308 days ago. So we're already above the average of 303 days, and well above the no-redesign average of 258 days, so it's about time.
• I do not think Apple would wait until WWDC just for the sake of it. After all, WWDC is a software focused event, and even if they want to announce some hardware, there are other candidates which could fit this role (the iPad Pro, for example).

Pretty much everything tells us that a new MacBook Pro is probably right around the corner. Please, don't let us wait too long for this spec bump, Apple ...

 

[cube]

I'd be surprised if they don't use Intel's G variant chips with Vega graphics

Or is it fake Vega graphics?

 

[richinaus]

The huge difference is that the keyboard region on a laptop (and especially a desktop) is something you should be looking at as little as possible (and less and less the more experienced you are), whereas a touchscreen device has you always looking where you are touching.

Also, on mobile devices where size is a huge constraint, having an interface that can change to be what's needed at that moment is far more important than in a laptop or desktop scenario with hardly any space concerns (generally speaking).

Barring some shockingly great haptics, including some way to change the physical surface texture (faux buttons), a touch bar as currently implemented (in terms of location) will always be in a bad place and force you to change contexts and focus too much.

It is pretty amazing to see the mental gymnastics that Apple is forcing themselves through by on one hand telling us that touchscreens are a bad experience on a laptop or desktop due to the screen orientation, while on the other hand selling how great the iPad Pro is when docked with their keyboard case that holds the iPad Pro up in the exact orientation that is, for some reason they can't explain, a big problem for the laptops if they were to have a touchscreen.

Makes. No. Sense.

Well reasoned. Your. Post. Makes. Sense.

 

[afir93]

It is pretty amazing to see the mental gymnastics that Apple is forcing themselves through by on one hand telling us that touchscreens are a bad experience on a laptop or desktop due to the screen orientation, while on the other hand selling how great the iPad Pro is when docked with their keyboard case that holds the iPad Pro up in the exact orientation that is, for some reason they can't explain, a big problem for the laptops if they were to have a touchscreen.

Makes. No. Sense.

That‘s something I never understood. Apple‘s main argument for why they don‘t want to do a MacBook/iMac with a touchscreen, or a tablet with macOS, always was that it wouldn‘t make for an ergonomic user experience; that the screen was so awkwardly placed vertically and in front of your nose that constantly moving your fingers up to the display and back down to the keyboard/mouse wouldn‘t be comfortable. And fair enough – in a vacuum, that argument makes sense.

But then they did exactly that with the iPad Pro. They want to push it as a laptop replacement, they market it (to a large extend) around the idea that you can put it up like a laptop with the help of the Smart Keyboard, and use it basically like a laptop without a trackpad but with a touchscreen. So why is this okay with the iPad but not with the Mac? Sure there are other arguments you can make like that macOS isn‘t optimized for touch inputs but iOS is, but from an ergonomic point of view, the whole argument seems rather bizarre.

 

[c0ppo]

Now when people think about it they don't think about all of the fantastic things that it could be... in their minds its an emoji bar that jacked up the price by 300 bucks. For TB to really get a better reputation though Apple needs to do several things:

- Bring the price down so it doesn't increase the premium on already-premiumly priced hardware
- Bring it to all other Macs going forward. I mean, imagine if only one model of iPod ever had the scroll wheel — Sacrifice the Touch ID & secure enclave components if you have to so you can get it in the wireless KBs for desktop Macs (go with face ID for authentication instead).
- Work hard to encourage developers to support it in all kinds ways to enhance their apps, financial incentives (or otherwise) if necessary. Not just large apps from popular multi-platform vendors — the smaller / mid size "only on OS X" apps have always been the strength of the platform so focus there.
- loosen up on a few of the guidelines preventing developers from doing some cool stuff with the TB & sherlock some of Better Touch Tool's functionality for TB (but with a better interface for customising it)

You are forgetting one very small, but important thing:
Keyboards on desktop computers are easily replaced.

And developers are the ones that mostly dislike TB. It distracts us from our work, and there are no gains to developer with TB. Literally none. TB brings only problems to us developers. I could write a small essay on this matter actually