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You might have a point about the stylus/Apple Pencil comparison - even though since Steve Jobs' famous words several years have passed, and he's passed away too, and the company has a different management etc.

I always understood Jobs' quote as a statement about touch technology in itself. A stylus is usually used to offset a mediocre/imprecise touch handling and to make things generally easier for the implementor. For me, the reason why Jobs hated styluses is because he wanted to make a product that would have best, seamless touch recognition without needing any crutches. Needless to say they succeeded. So I think that Dave245 is spot on here — Apple Pencil is not a stylus. Its a digital artist's input device, allowing them to do things that wouldn't be possible with a finger (pencil gives you more control, fine-grained pressure, smaller touch area). It doesn't enhance or replace finger input. For normal workflows, e.g. typing, fingers are still quicker.

As to the rest of the story, of course part of Apple's marketing strategy is to have a product portfolio that would encourage you to buy as many of them as possible. But at the same time, they are trying to design these products in a way so that they fill fill their purpose in the best possible of ways (whether they succeed at it or not, is a different topic). Apple's stance has long been that tablet and laptop are functionally very different devices, are interacted with differently and thus require different design both in hardware and software. Even after all modern 2-in-1 designs, I have to say that I fully agree with Apple. While its very much possible technically to make a 2-in-1, as proven by companies like Microsoft, Dell and Lenovo, there are many design drawbacks that come with them (thicker displays which make the device top-heavy, complex engineering, restrictions on the CPU TDP, low battery duration in the tablet mode). Real problem though is software — if you try to make something that works with both touch and mouse/keyboard equally well, you'd just end up with a big disaster. Its possible for individual apps, especially if the app is focused on drawing etc., but overall? I doubt it. So Apple's strategy of making dedicated designs for two modes makes perfect sense to me. As to unification — they are supposed to introduce a new programming interface later this years, that would allow one to write apps where the same code works on both the macOS and the iOS, by adjusting the UI elements to the specific restrictions and capabilities of the target platform.

In fact, here is a little recent anecdote from my experience. I've just came back from a design exhibition where, among other things, Wacom was exhibiting some of their latest products for creative professionals. I played around with a computer which was basically a Wacom version of the Surface. It run full version of Windows and had a digital pencil. You could try out Photoshop and some other apps. The funny thing was, compared to the iPad Pro and Apple Pencil, the entire thing felt a bit like last century. It was bulky, slow (apps took ages to load), the pencil had noticeable lag and I am sure that this Wacom device commanded a hefty price tag. I'm not an artist, but from what I've seen, the only benefit such a device has is size. A combination of an iPad plus a laptop — with handoff, seems to me like a much more useful combo.
 
Only really new notebook hardware I've personally seen is the AMD 8 Core Ryzen, have been told that the Intel 6 core notebooks are imminent, equally yet to see one first hand. As for Apple, they will just do as they please, as they always do :)

Q-6

I'm curious, are you Waiting for the 2018 MBP like the rest of us, or just hanging around to post negative comments about Apple and it's products?
 
I'm curious, are you Waiting for the 2018 MBP like the rest of us, or just hanging around to post negative comments about Apple and it's products?

I feel like Q6 is in a similar boat that I'm in: waiting for it, hoping that it will be good, but frustrated by a series of design choices Apple has made that take the proverbial "Pro" out of the Macbook Pro.

I need a laptop soon for coding. If the MBP is good, I'll get it. If it's not, I'll probably wind up getting an XPS 15 and installing Ubuntu on it. The 32 GB of DDR4 will likely be a deal maker/deal breaker.
 
we all know what will be released and most likely when it will be released It wont be exciting. Just another laptop.

I gave up building up any anticipation to these launches a few years ago now as they will always disappoint when you have a level of expectation that is different to the policies of Apple. Once you realise these policies and aims you then can understand what to expect.

Those that say they are hoping for something like a workstation, Nvidia, 17" screen, more ports etc are going to be disappointed. Almost guaranteed as this is not what a macbookpro is anymore.

The idea of Macbook Pro being for "Pros" isn't realistic in a way... Outside of the 15" I don't believe the 13" is up to par for a Pro especially with some high bandwith ports on the left and on the right some slower ones, that doesn't make any sense for Pro people like me.

Sure DDR3 is kinda annoying but this is kinda Intel fault not Apple themselves.
 
Yes, but if Apple offered a wider range of laptops they would not be so affected by Intel slippage in one component.

Again I agree.

They should do a 17" version, but then again imagine the insanity of price that it would be...

Don't forget that these machines are already overpriced, are we ready to pay even further to get a better machine?
 
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It really depends on how you define "pro" users, doesn't it? Someone who earns his money as a writer is just as "pro" as a creative professional. I would argue that the MacBook Pro, in its current state, does deliver for a lot of professional workflows out there. Just not for the workflows of people in this forum, it seems.
 
It really depends on how you define "pro" users, doesn't it? Someone who earns his money as a writer is just as "pro" as a creative professional. I would argue that the MacBook Pro, in its current state, does deliver for a lot of professional workflows out there. Just not for the workflows of people in this forum, it seems.

Pro was used to describe having capabilities to meet the above average demands of creative professionals (CPU/GPU horsepower, compatibility with various input/outputs,fast hard drive transfer speeds etc) - similar to Pro monitors being sold by BenQ/Dell etc which are tuned for colour accuracy, resolution and professional features.

I could just use Microsoft Word/Publisher for my job, but that could be done on a netbook!

So yes, Pro would be defined not simply as someone who used the product for work as technically correct as it may seem.

Imagine a laptop being called a gaming laptop because it can run solitaire...
 
It really depends on how you define "pro" users, doesn't it? Someone who earns his money as a writer is just as "pro" as a creative professional. I would argue that the MacBook Pro, in its current state, does deliver for a lot of professional workflows out there. Just not for the workflows of people in this forum, it seems.

A Quad Core 13" will suffice my needs. The thing is I don't wanna make the jump to the 15" due to the size and the dGPU ( I game at home not on the go anyways)

I usually have 4 VMs running on the background while having 3 huge Excel spreadsheets open + 5 Remote Desktop Connections.

My 13" 2016 wasn't up to the task and was throttling all the damm time.
 
My predictions:

  • The touchbar is removed from all models
  • The Apple boot loader processor from the iMac pro is added instead
  • Price cuts at the top end OR ‘more bang for your buck’
  • Keyboard module is made more dustproofed/waterproofed. It remains horrible to remove though.
  • Processor / memory configurations are made more ‘pro’. More of a separation between the MacBook and MBP.
  • No 32MB RAM as intel haven’t made ultrabook processors that can take the low power RAM modules that Apple uses in the MBP
  • 256 GB SSD minimum. MacBook starts at 128.
  • TB3 and only TB3 is here to stay.
  • Top end models have inductive charging & a special charge mat (separate purchase)
  • Release of the rumoured 13 inch MacBook which hits $999
 
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My predictions:

  • The touchbar is removed from all models
  • The Apple boot loader processor from the iMac pro is added instead
  • Price cuts at the top end OR ‘more bang for your buck’
  • Keyboard module is made more dustproofed/waterproofed. It remains horrible to remove though.
  • Processor / memory configurations are made more ‘pro’. More of a separation between the MacBook and MBP.
  • No 32MB RAM as intel haven’t made ultrabook processors that can take the low power RAM modules that Apple uses in the MBP
  • 256 GB SSD minimum. MacBook starts at 128.
  • TB3 and only TB3 is here to stay.
  • Top end models have inductive charging & a special charge mat (separate purchase)
  • Release of the rumoured 13 inch MacBook which hits $999

You are joking right? they won't remove the touch bar and an inductive charging mat for a laptop....why? :eek:
 
I
It really depends on how you define "pro" users, doesn't it? Someone who earns his money as a writer is just as "pro" as a creative professional. I would argue that the MacBook Pro, in its current state, does deliver for a lot of professional workflows out there. Just not for the workflows of people in this forum, it seems.

I’ve got an entry level 13 inch MBP which I use for productivity tasks (email, project management, spreadsheets etc) which are professional tasks but that I wouldn’t say are specific pro scenarios.

I’d define ‘pro’ as meaning tasks that would be very difficult/slow to do on a non pro machine.

So that’s compiling code etc, graphics, photo, video and audio work.

I could probably do what I do on a MacBook and I wouldn’t make much difference (even an air but then I’d be straining my eyes quite a bit)
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You are joking right? they won't remove the touch bar and an inductive charging mat for a laptop....why? :eek:

Touchbar...
I’m hoping that apple swallow their pride and realise that most people don’t want or need this.

Ok let me qualify that and say what’s probably more likely which is that the top end models will be available with or without the touchbar.

That way Apple gets to save face and when the market decides that they have no interest in buying top end configurations with the TB, they can then drop it.

Inductive charging
Everyone complains about there being not enough ports, right? Admittedly given the power demands of the MBP and that inductive charging tops out at 10w this is a bit of a random prediction. We’ll most likely see this in the iPad Pro first. So yeah you called me out there!
 
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My predictions:

  • The touchbar is removed from all models
  • The Apple boot loader processor from the iMac pro is added instead
  • Price cuts at the top end OR ‘more bang for your buck’
  • Keyboard module is made more dustproofed/waterproofed. It remains horrible to remove though.
  • Processor / memory configurations are made more ‘pro’. More of a separation between the MacBook and MBP.
  • No 32MB RAM as intel haven’t made ultrabook processors that can take the low power RAM modules that Apple uses in the MBP
  • 256 GB SSD minimum. MacBook starts at 128.
  • TB3 and only TB3 is here to stay.
  • Top end models have inductive charging & a special charge mat (separate purchase)
  • Release of the rumoured 13 inch MacBook which hits $999

My thoughts exactly. Except that I don't believe they would remove the Touch Bar and I think there is no way for inductive charging. I mean, inductive charging at 100 Watt? Thats CRAZY :D

As to the hardware, I think we might see Xeon Coffee Lake in the 15" MBP as well as AMD Vega with HBM2. Most likely the T2 chip as well, I'm curious to see whether we'd also get the paired SSD modules like in the iMac Pro. An interesting turn of events would be seeing a custom Kaby Lake G in the 13" at 30W TDP, it remains to be seen though whether that would be any better than what the Iris Plus Coffee Lake can deliver.
 
Touchbar...
I’m hoping that apple swallow their pride and realise that most people don’t want or need this.

Ok let me qualify that and say what’s probably more likely which is that the top end models will be available with or without the touchbar.

That way Apple gets to save face and when the market decides that they have no interest in buying top end configurations with the TB, they can then drop it.

Inductive charging
Everyone complains about there being not enough ports, right? Admittedly given the power demands of the MBP and that inductive charging tops out at 10w this is a bit of a random prediction. We’ll most likely see this in the iPad Pro first. So yeah you called me out there!

The Touch Bar value depends on your work flow for example it works very well within Final Cut Pro, a lot of time can be saved when doing things like trimming clips and so on. Touch ID is also very useful for logging in and out of your MacBook Pro and buying things through Apple Pay. If you implement it into your work flow it really does work well. Disclaimer here I don’t own one but I’ve used a friends who is a professional editor and he uses the Touch Bar on a daily basis even going as far as to say that it helps him save time when editing and therefore money!

Inductive charging on a laptop doesn’t make sense, currently if you want to charge your laptop you plug it in and you can still use it, how would it work with a charging matt? Also currently if you want to move to another room you can currently unplug it while charging, go into said room plug it back in and use while charging, as far as I can tell you wouldn’t be able to do this with a charging matt.
 
Pro was used to describe having capabilities to meet the above average demands of creative professionals

Imagine a laptop being called a gaming laptop because it can run solitaire...

*skullemoji**skullemoji*
 
The Touch Bar value depends on your work flow for example it works very well within Final Cut Pro, a lot of time can be saved when doing things like trimming clips and so on. Touch ID is also very useful for logging in and out of your MacBook Pro and buying things through Apple Pay. If you implement it into your work flow it really does work well. Disclaimer here I don’t own one but I’ve used a friends who is a professional editor and he uses the Touch Bar on a daily basis even going as far as to say that it helps him save time when editing and therefore money!

Inductive charging on a laptop doesn’t make sense, currently if you want to charge your laptop you plug it in and you can still use it, how would it work with a charging matt? Also currently if you want to move to another room you can currently unplug it while charging, go into said room plug it back in and use while charging, as far as I can tell you wouldn’t be able to do this with a charging matt.

Fair enough that it works for your video editor friend.

Following from that, I guess that people got very upset around Apple seeming to equate ‘pro’ with ‘video/audio editors’ ie anyone who needed to scrub along a timeline.

I still would say that the touchbar is in a strange place. Face ID is obviously the future and it seems odd to launch any more pro products where this is a major feature.

And I’m rapidly rowing back from my inductive charging idea for MBPs as it’s obviously crazy to provide charging that tops out at 10w for such a powerful and power demanding machine.

Too much coffee today... that’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it!
 
Pro was used to describe having capabilities to meet the above average demands of creative professionals (CPU/GPU horsepower, compatibility with various input/outputs,fast hard drive transfer speeds etc) - similar to Pro monitors being sold by BenQ/Dell etc which are tuned for colour accuracy, resolution and professional features.

Thats a reasonable way to understand this moniker, but then we'd have to agree that Apple laptops were never "Pro". They could never compete with proper workstations in the horsepower and out of the box I/O categories. MacBook Pro was always a compact ultraportable computer with a rather decent CPU, decent but mid-range GPU, very good display and very good battery lifetime. Jack of all trades if you want. Something that you could plug in to do some reasonably serious work, but also something that you could carry around all day without too much effort. Thats was the design of the MBP even back in the day when it was called the PowerBook, and that is exactly the design of the MBP today. The core idea and the position within the market has not changed a bit.
 
I think we may see an new entry level 15” to replace the 2015 model still on sale. This would have a 2016-17 design, but without a touch bar. Possibly same specs as current £2349 model or very similar. I can’t see Apple removing the touch bar entirely yet. Not until the next major redesign when we’ll probably see an entire touch keyboard instead.
 
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I think we may see an new entry level 15” to replace the 2015 model still on sale. This would have a 2016-17 design, but without a touch bar. Possibly same specs as current £2349 model or very similar. I can’t see Apple removing the touch bar entirely yet. Not until the next major redesign when we’ll probably see an entire touch keyboard instead.

I really hope that we don’t get a touch keyboard. I can touch type and it’s impossible to type like that with a touch keyboard.

I’d be open to the keyboard being something like the iPad Pro Apple keyboard with superior dustproof and waterproofing.

The scissor mechanism is just not working nowadays given the difficulty of replacing keys and keyboards - and getting crumbs and dust under the keys.

I’d be ok about it using some sort of e-ink so that the keyboard language could be changed on the fly, too. And who hasn’t wanted to see a MBP with an emoji keyboard...?

But not a touch keyboard on the MBP please!
 
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Pro was used to describe having capabilities to meet the above average demands of creative professionals (CPU/GPU horsepower, compatibility with various input/outputs,fast hard drive transfer speeds etc) - similar to Pro monitors being sold by BenQ/Dell etc which are tuned for colour accuracy, resolution and professional features.

I could just use Microsoft Word/Publisher for my job, but that could be done on a netbook!

So yes, Pro would be defined not simply as someone who used the product for work as technically correct as it may seem.

Imagine a laptop being called a gaming laptop because it can run solitaire...

I don't disagree with your definition, but I think the MacBook Pro can fit this definition, depending on exactly what you need to get done on the go. I think we can agree that the speed of the SSD and of the I/O are pretty much as fast as possible by today's technology.

And, as a full time graphic designer, I can say that the current CPU, GPU and RAM are sufficient for a huge portion of graphic design work. InDesign still isn't properly multi threaded anyway. GPU acceleration isn't supported in most of Adobe's CC when working in CMYK color spaces, which means the GPU doesn't matter for any work destined for print. There's a long list of things you can do on the MacBook Pro. And for the few you can't, there are usually workarounds (like using an eGPU).

I'm not saying the MacBook Pro fits all workflows. I'm just saying that it still fits a large part of the creative professional community, and if you specifically need to get 3D renderings done on the go (although I doubt the battery would last until a complex rendering would finish anyway), then you don't need a "pro" notebook, but a proper mobile workstation.
 
I really hope that we don’t get a touch keyboard. I can touch type and it’s impossible to type like that with a touch keyboard.

I’d be open to the keyboard being something like the iPad Pro Apple keyboard with superior dustproof and waterproofing.

The scissor mechanism is just not working nowadays given the difficulty of replacing keys and keyboards - and getting crumbs and dust under the keys.

I’d be ok about it using some sort of e-ink so that the keyboard language could be changed on the fly, too. And who hasn’t wanted to see a MBP with an emoji keyboard...?

But not a touch keyboard on the MBP please!

The lacklustre response to the Touch Bar may persuade Apple to take a different route. But a touch keyboard is definitely where Apple have been heading. Haptic feedback on mobiles and track pads along with the Touch Bar itself... the pieces are all there slowly coming together.
 
I don't disagree with your definition, but I think the MacBook Pro can fit this definition, depending on exactly what you need to get done on the go. I think we can agree that the speed of the SSD and of the I/O are pretty much as fast as possible by today's technology.

And, as a full time graphic designer, I can say that the current CPU, GPU and RAM are sufficient for a huge portion of graphic design work. InDesign still isn't properly multi threaded anyway. GPU acceleration isn't supported in most of Adobe's CC when working in CMYK color spaces, which means the GPU doesn't matter for any work destined for print. There's a long list of things you can do on the MacBook Pro. And for the few you can't, there are usually workarounds (like using an eGPU).

I'm not saying the MacBook Pro fits all workflows. I'm just saying that it still fits a large part of the creative professional community, and if you specifically need to get 3D renderings done on the go (although I doubt the battery would last until a complex rendering would finish anyway), then you don't need a "pro" notebook, but a proper mobile workstation.

With the release of the iMac Pro, it’s interesting to think where the MBP is meant to sit now.

Clearly for video, graphics and audio professionals, if you’re not needing to be mobile, you should be using the iMac Pro (if you can afford it).

I think that some of the negativity around the MBP is from people expecting to use their laptop as their main machine and that it should be able to handle any task that’s thrown at it - just like a desktop machine.

When as you say, the MBP isn’t meant to be a powerhouse like a desktop, but a good balance between portability, battery life and power.

The usage scenario for the MBP is clearly meant to be a ‘mobile professional’ - not someone who uses a laptop at their desk all day (and who gets mad that it doesn’t have the power of a desktop).
 
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