They probably won't even announce it in any detail as well. Won't admit to any kind of fault in the design so we'll just find out that "3rd generation butterfly keyboard" is in the spec sheet somewhere.
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Waiting for the 2018 MBP
- Thread starter benface
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Need we say more...
I seriously tired of needing to baby Apple's finest with auto destruct dGPU's, as for keyboard's good luck with that one 
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hahahaha. Nice try. Ya, sure. I didn't know ANY of that. /s
It's a MacBook PRO not a MacBook or a MacBook Air. Pro work eats ANY battery alive. No matter what. Give me 32 or 64GB as an OPTION. Even put a disclaimer about battery life if you wish.
Same with driving a car. You go fast. Range goes down. Everyone knows that.
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Funny story. My 2011 MBP has a 95(?!)Wh battery. And it is actually from 2011 too.
General battery run time is around 4hrs now. Battery loss during sleep has NEVER been an issue. Ever. And I manually disabled Hibernate/Deep Sleep completely.
Said machine does also NOT use LPDDR. So ya. I call total BS. As even standard DDR4 is alrdy more efficient than the stuff in my machine!
what happens if you need all day battery?
I am not going to question why you need 32gb as I have that on my desktop, but wouldn't need it in my laptop [different work levels].
I learned my lesson pretty clearly with a 2014 macbookpro [maxed]. They are not workstation laptops, never have been, never will. I whinged and whinged about it too, but then saw the reality of the situation.
If you want power [in a Mac], get a desktop. If you need mobile power get a more specialised workstation PC.
The choices are out there for what you need. Just that Apple dont make the machine you want.
I wanted a powerful Macbookpro workstation laptop too. It's not going to happen though so mayaswell stop going on about it and adjust you expectations.
So I have an iMac Pro that allows me to do all the things I need to do, and recently got rid of my MBP in anticipation of the 2018 models. Suffice to say I dont push the laptops as hard as the desktops and understand their limitations.
But all in all the current machine size is great, easy to carry, has enough power to do 'most' things and will be a great machine for most people. It is not going to get thicker / reduced battery etc for a couple of people demanding 32 / 64gb ram.
It will remain a professional machine for a lot of professionals, just not your profession apparently.
If you are a professional however, there should be no reason why you cannot afford and iMac pro [Mac Pro when it arrives] and a decent macbookpro for those times when you need portability. Surely you dont need a super powerful laptop then, and it only costs $50 a week after tax.
I may disagree with you on some points. I.e. that MBPs used to use a CPU's max RAM, now they don't anymore.
And yes. It is a different kind of expectation. I hate having two computers. Plus I am moving around a LOT. Daily home and office. and at the office also a couple times a day on average. Stuff is still desk bound though. And then I also move to different clients for a day or two. So a mobile machine is a must.
And since the 2016 models showed I am actively contemplating my various options. Which includes switching to Windows which technically would be possible.
It's really a messed up situation. And I still don't have an answer...
I agree and am in a very similar situation- I wanted 1 computer only but came to the reality that if I wanted to stay with Apple I would need 2. To be honest though I am glad I went down the iMac pro route as it has opened up new avenues due to the speed etc.
OK I will also agree that a while ago the MBP / powerbook was at a higher level but not for quite a while now it seems [I struggled along with them as a one computer solution from 2010 to 2016 - never ever again]. They are pro but not 'pro' enough for me, so I use a desktop and am happy.
So with windows you can do the laptop workstation but with Apple its not going to happen and for me hasn't for the last 8 years.
Of course it doesn't. 4 hours battery runtime is not much to brag about
Every crappy PC for $500 will give you that. What you think or believe in this case it totally irrelevant. This is a matter of verifiable facts and product specifications, as communicated by RAM makers, independent hardware testers and researchers. We are talking cutting edge here. I get it that you don't care much for battery if you can live with 4 hours, but it so happens that MacBook Pro is designed around certain battery runtime in mind. And to order to reach it while fulfilling other design criteria (max power in smallest possible form factor), one needs to optimise the system to the extreme.
Frankly, I am a bit amazed about arrogance of some people who claim to understand the intricacies of engineering better than some of the best laptop engineers in the world. I get it that its not what you want in a laptop. Still, just because you want a different kind of laptop does not make this particular implementation bad.
I’m sure you’re right about the lawsuit and stuff but the major dispute couldn’t have been from 2008. 2012 retina MacBook pros had gt650m gpus. At least mine did and mine was base model. I think 2013 or 14 had Nvidia as well but can’t be sure and don’t feel like checking.
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Lucky. Mine fried it’s gpu again few months ago. Living off a desktop pc (not a real substitute) and am hating my lack of mobility. I like to code in my bed or on a couch and that just isn’t possible this way. Makes me much less interested in working on my coding projects (I hate the rigidity of chairs). And yah I know, boo hoo, but it still sucks
I'll not debate the contents as I agree with some of what he says but Louis Rossmann goes out of his way to berate, belittle and blast apple every chance he gets. All I see out of Rossmann is always complaining and criticizing, so much so I largely tune him out. Like the boy who cries wolf he complains so much about eveything that apple does, if he raises a valid concern, it gets lost in the chatter of his other rants. My take on him, is he says what he says for clicks, he fond out early on if rants about apple, his youtube channel gets more hits.
If the squeeze is finally coming to an end and 512GB modules start to trend towards the price that 256 have been going for I think we might finally see HDDs shrinking back to the very low end of computers, or at least fusion drives across virtually all models. I would like to see a stock 1TB option for the MBP and the lower end TB model (15”) get 512GB at the price it’s going for.
I agree, equally "it is what it is" when you really look at it, cut though all the rhetoric he's not far off the mark either. I remember one of the members looked at the 15" MBP in some detail some years back, over 60% of released models had serious issues/flaws requiring recall, extended warranty etc. this was way before the 2016 models.
Q-6
To add to this, Rossmann also deliberately manipulates the audience. As an example, he was demonstrating USB 3.0/WiFi interference with his test unit, but he didn't mention that this is a well known problem with the USB standard, which affects a large variety of devices across different brands — something that Rossmann as a professional computer repair expert should have been aware of.
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Do you really think this is exclusive to Apple? Most laptops/cars/devices etc. have some sort of design or production problem. When you look at any laptop series, you'd find quite a history of issues. Its just that not every company is so customer friendly to issue a recall etc. on most of these.
P.S. Just a quick search around on some other premium laptops:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ist-of-hardware-and-software-problems.784691/
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16685986/microsoft-surface-book-2-power-problem
etc.
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No not at all, equally some companies are capable of getting it right, I wonder when Apple will with the 15" MBP? Personally I'd far prefer Apple got it right in the first place, not dance about for years until litigation forces their hand...
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Who said anything about only Apple making mistakes I’ve yet to see that one in the thread?
Of course it doesn't. 4 hours battery runtime is not much to brag about
What you think or believe in this case it totally irrelevant. This is a matter of verifiable facts and product specifications, as communicated by RAM makers, independent hardware testers and researchers. We are talking cutting edge here. I get it that you don't care much for battery if you can live with 4 hours, but it so happens that MacBook Pro is designed around certain battery runtime in mind. And to order to reach it while fulfilling other design criteria (max power in smallest possible form factor), one needs to optimise the system to the extreme.
Frankly, I am a bit amazed about arrogance of some people who claim to understand the intricacies of engineering better than some of the best laptop engineers in the world. I get it that its not what you want in a laptop. Still, just because you want a different kind of laptop does not make this particular implementation bad.
The point is... that it STILL gets this runtime... despite it's aging components (Sandy Bridge CPUs that get pretty hot and eat electricity for lunch, DDR3... and a battery that now after 7 years has like 50-60% of its original capacity left!)
And no... I'm not arrogant here at all. Or oblivious. It's pretty simple really.
Apple wanted to make a slimmer device. Slimmer device means less battery capacity. If your goal then is to still reach a certain run time... you need to source components that draw the least amount of power. LPDDR3 IS a LOT more efficient than DDR4. That is a fact. And no one is denying that.
What bugs me is Apple's direction and insistance to make the MacBook Pro thinner to begin with. If it stays with rMBP style frame and battery size... then it could have easily used DDR4 instead... and be on the cutting edge PERFORMANCE-wise aka faster RAM and MORE of it, too. Yes... at the expense of efficiency. But if we ALL were only ever concerned with stuff being as efficient as humanly possible... our world would be a totally different place (looking at YOU car industry and at the cars people actually buy).
Everything is a compromise at the end of the day.
I said it a million times... and I say it again. All we ask for is options. Like with the iMac and iMac Pro... they did that although the top-spec (normal) iMac was already a monster. Sadly, the MacBook Pro is NOT. So all we ask... is a slightly bigger product portfolio with one machine on top of the current MBP.
And yes... this actually IS arrogant... that I say "we". But I pretty much get the consensus here that a lot of people actually agree with this sentiment. Plus... since no one wants to take YOUR MBPs away... everyone wins. Except for Apple... with overall slimmer margins. But I think... no... know that they could easily take that without having to file for chapter 11.
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Who "gets it right" for example? I am sure that no matter what laptop you take, you'd find systematic issues with its production. That is the unfortunate case of our current technological limitations paired with the constant strive to make new products...
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The rhetoric of the post I quoted suggested that Apple's laptops have systematic issues without pointing out that this pattern is unfortunately rather common in the industry.
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Completely with you up to this point.
Totally agree with this as well. Its not the direction Appel decided to take the computer though.
I really understand your point. Still, Apple was never good at providing option. I think its also what made them this successful — their insistence on executing their vision.
Anyway, as I have always tried to make clear — I am certainly not against an introduction of a more workstation-like Mac laptop — provided that the MBP stays in the power bracket it is now. I do not believe that this will happen — again, Apple never seemed interested to making such a laptop (most likely due to low demand), but one can always dream of course
Who "gets it right" for example? I am sure that no matter what laptop you take, you'd find systematic issues with its production. That is the unfortunate case of our current technological limitations paired with the constant strive to make new products...
[doublepost=1524743527][/doublepost]
The rhetoric of the post I quoted suggested that Apple's laptops have systematic issues without pointing out that this pattern is unfortunately rather common in the industry.
[doublepost=1524744083][/doublepost]
Completely with you up to this point.
Totally agree with this as well. Its not the direction Appel decided to take the computer though.
I really understand your point. Still, Apple was never good at providing option. I think its also what made them this successful — their insistence on executing their vision.
Anyway, as I have always tried to make clear — I am certainly not against an introduction of a more workstation-like Mac laptop — provided that the MBP stays in the power bracket it is now. I do not believe that this will happen — again, Apple never seemed interested to making such a laptop (most likely due to low demand), but one can always dream of course
That's what I do. Dream until the time comes where I run out of options... then I'll HAVE to act.
Options include but are not limited to getting an iMac Pro... and using remote desktop/screen sharing to access it on the go and similar scenarios...
May eventually go iMac too. Something's not right when the regular (consumer) iMac can take 4x the maximum RAM compared to the MBP.
Who "gets it right" for example? I am sure that no matter what laptop you take, you'd find systematic issues with its production. That is the unfortunate case of our current technological limitations paired with the constant strive to make new products...
[doublepost=1524743527][/doublepost]
The rhetoric of the post I quoted suggested that Apple's laptops have systematic issues without pointing out that this pattern is unfortunately rather common in the industry.
[doublepost=1524744083][/doublepost]
Completely with you up to this point.
Totally agree with this as well. Its not the direction Appel decided to take the computer though.
I really understand your point. Still, Apple was never good at providing option. I think its also what made them this successful — their insistence on executing their vision.
Anyway, as I have always tried to make clear — I am certainly not against an introduction of a more workstation-like Mac laptop — provided that the MBP stays in the power bracket it is now. I do not believe that this will happen — again, Apple never seemed interested to making such a laptop (most likely due to low demand), but one can always dream of course
No doubt many both better and worse, equally Apple is selling it's offerings at a premium and with that many expect a more reliable less troublesome product. Yet here we are again with another major design flaw that Apple is unlikely to fully resolve until the next major redesign...
Q-6
Adding another reason NOT to get a current generation MacBook Pro, John Gruber points out how it is not is a good idea to get one even when they are one sale. Both linked comments in his post are relevant and good to read.
While I don't know anyone that works at a Genius Bar I would guess this has to be the #1 reason they see the 2016/17 MacBook Pros in for service.
Anyone here work for Apple and have any firsthand experience?
While I don't know anyone that works at a Genius Bar I would guess this has to be the #1 reason they see the 2016/17 MacBook Pros in for service.
Anyone here work for Apple and have any firsthand experience?
To add to this, even without considering the keyboard issues it's generally not advisable to buy into a good sale so shortly before the release of the next generation, assuming that you have the time to wait. Sure, the deals we have right now may look good compared to the prices and deals we're used to, but there will almost always be equally good or better deals for the current generation shortly after release of the new models.
@leman I admire your patience! For a thread titled 'Waiting for the 2018 MBP' on a website called MacRumors, there sure are a lot of people desperate to complain about Apple. Good on you for bringing some rationality and critical thinking to the Let's Pray to the RAM Gods party. (But maybe save your energy.)