You need to go check out the "waiting for XXXX Mac Pro" forums, its bleak.
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Waiting for the 2018 MBP
- Thread starter benface
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You need to go check out the "waiting for XXXX Mac Pro" forums, its bleak.
Yah I feel that. Now that I’ve programmed on Windows, Linux, and MacOS I’ve decided that Linux is my favorite with MacOS second and Windows third for programming. But for anything other than programming like photoshop I need a normal OS so that rules out Linux. Plus all the IOS integration is nice and I love the old build quality of Macs. So I’m definitely in the I want a Mac camp. Which is part of the reason I’m going to be forced to buy whatever Apple gives me no matter the idiocy brought on by the design team. I used to love Ive’s design sense because it represented balance with the function. Now I don’t know if his designs are the first step in envisioning a product or part of the process. And it definitely shouldn’t be the first
Another risk mitigation strategy could have been to, gasp, have an additional model that would be slightly thicker, with a larger battery and DDR4 up to 64 GB of RAM. Apple is leaving a lot of performance on the table with now i9 six core chips that can run DDR4 up to 2666 MHz... Also Xeon equivalents that support ECC.... Just make some sort of mobile workstation version of the MBP already. It sucks that Intel put you in this position, but the solution seems pretty simple to me.
I don't think it would actually be external, just its not on the Intel package, essentially Apple would have to add their own features to the mother board.
Yet the irony of your signature says otherwise:
Waiting for Skylake MBP alumni. Now waiting for Coffee Lake
i7-7700k 4.2 GHz, GTX 1080 Ti, 16 GB DDR4, 512 GB M.2 SSD, 4 TB HDD
2012 15" rMBP 2.3 GHz ---KILLED BY THE HAND OF THE GPU GODS
iPhone X | iPad Pro 12.9"
Also, could you be more specific as to what you don't like about the current MacBook Pro design?
Because when I look at something like the new Dell XPS where the web cam is at the bottom of the screen, thats crappy design.
The keyboard on the 2017 model to me is usable. The input choices are polarizing, but are becoming a less of a deal breaker. I still have a lot of legacy devices with USB A, so, its probably why I haven't jumped at the chance to change out out from my early 2015.
But I want to know exactly whats the issue with the design; do you want a circle screen, a 2 inch thick chassis, matte screen, smaller trackpad, no touch bar?
The previous page (180) I think has a good series of posts that codify people's qualms with/wants from the Macbook Pro. The general point is that Apple is making concessions in important areas (reliability, performance/memory capacity, battery size, I/O to a lesser extent) in order to make the Macbook Pro even thinner and lighter, and in doing so, making the MBP a "Pro" machine in name, only. It's getting to the point where, performance/utility-wise, it'll only offer feature parity in the CPU and SSD departments, in exchange for compromises on other major fronts.
Regarding the webcam placement: that's definitely, by far, most glaring design issue, but considering everything else the XPS brings to the table in tandem with me very rarely, if ever, using the webcam, I don't really consider that to be a big issue. The Aero 15 also has similar webcam placement, but that doesn't seem to be deterring very many people.
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It’s true, a lot of those guys are miserable. And the disdain they have for other parts of forum and other hardware in Apple’s lineup is equally depressing.
Yes, that's…what I was talking about: external to the CPU, but not to the motherboard or the computer itself.
I think people expect too much of Apple these days regarding powerhouse systems.. Every day we get more info regarding eGPUs.
If you need GPU power on a Mac, the eGPUs are the only way.
Let's see what happens this gen, I really want a Quad Core 13" with 10-12h battery thou.. But at the same time I kinda want cannonlake
If you need GPU power on a Mac, the eGPUs are the only way.
Let's see what happens this gen, I really want a Quad Core 13" with 10-12h battery thou.. But at the same time I kinda want cannonlake
Can you elaborate on your want for Cannonlake?
From what I understand, that name just represents the first-ever 10nm processor (with low-power chips). Are you expecting that Cannonlake will be available in MacBook Pros? I ask because I'm pretty sure that these chips will only provide enough power to supply baseline machines, such as a MacBook and MacBook Air.
If you are wanting to buy a MacBook Pro with the 10nm architecture.. you should say "I kinda want Ice Lake," which is the current codename for the high-powered 10nm refresh, which should be released a year (or so) after Cannonlake. Right???
Both 10nm processors are supposed to provide silicon fixed for Spectre and Meltdown, which is very cool, but are you ready to wait two or three more years for it to materialize in a MBP, which... by that time, Apple may ditch Intel in favor of their own ARM-based chips?!?!? Man.. I want the Ice Lake MBP too, but uhm... bro, I don't think it is ever going to happen.
This is pure speculation, but I believe that Coffee Lake will be the last MacBook Pros with Intel processors.
Thing is, with a bit of ingenuity, I don't think Apple would need to make at all as many concessions as they currently are. They are lacking in direction, their product portfolio is inconsistent and they are lacking in creativity. What they do have is external case design and build quality. Mac is becoming more and more a fashion statement than a useful computer. I don't know if I've ever seen Apple as very creative with regard to what's inside the case. It just makes me sad because there isn't really any diversity in the computer industry now as there was in the 80s and 90s. Apple is just about the only manufacturer left who are doing anything different. It seems to me that they have such a massive unexploited potential to do awesome things, and they're not doing it.
Most people won't know 10nm as Ice Lake, hence why I mentioned Cannonlake.
But yes Ice Lake is what I would really love to get, but sadly I can't wait any longer after June for the new Macbooks. This Toshiba laptop I have is driving me insane with it's crappy Skylake GPU.. Cant drive a freaking 1080p display without frames dropping all over the place.
I doubt they'll drop Intel all of sudden, I'll dare to say there's gonna be 3 generations of hybrid ARM & Intel still going
My money has been ready since 2014. Ever iteration of the MBP has the same speed as my 2013 15” rMBP while having serious reliability issues with their keyboard.
When I upgraded from my 2010 15” MBP -> 2013 15” Haswell rMBP, it was 3 times more powerful so a huge upgrade. These upgrades over the years have been a joke.
So if Pineapple Co. can fix their reliability problems and put 6 cores in the machine, then they will finally get my money.
But if you must know I’ve said it multiple times in the past on this forum. You may not have seen so I’ll say it again. I liked everything about the 2016 except the keyboard and battery. And now that I think of it the trackpad was too large to be used effectively and often caused mis taps when typing that I thought I’d left behind when I switched to Mac laptops. As I’ve said before I could live with everything else and the keyboard wasn’t a dealbreaker except for reliability as it was quickly broken on the 2 2016 MacBook Pro models I had.
You call out my signature. I’ll give you an idea why the 2016 MacBook Pro was the only product I fully returned to Apple ever. You highlight my first line saying that I was part of waiting for sky lake and that I’m now waiting for coffee lake. Yes. I am. What’s your point. Second you call out my now dead 2012 MBP. It’s function was amazing st release. The only reason I decided to upgrade to the sky lake version was it was starting to significantly slow down and would chug st everything even after clean install. So yah. It served me 4 years I’m happy with how it did. But then because the 2016 battery and keyboard sucked I had to go back to the 2012 which is why it’s in my sig still. Third the iPhone X I have is amazing. I love it coming from a 6. But my only complaint is Face ID speed. While I’m not happy with how slow it is I live with it for the extra real esttte on scereen which I think is really cool. I also like the notch (weird right?) because it maximizes screen real estate while keeping the phone it’s current form factor. And my 12.9” iPad Pro is a godsend for taking notes in my lectures.
So f you Mr. Dee for calling my dissapointment in one product apple has sold ironic because of a few products I own that do their jobs extremely well.
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Guys can we return from the personal reproaches back to the topic at hand, i.e. the new 2018 MBP? Like, there's still so much we haven't really talked about on these 181 pages.
For example... how many new space gray color shades will we see in the MacBook line this year around? What about a golden or rose gold color option or maybe a (PRODUCT)RED one? Or maybe the outlines of the four USB-C ports will get some fancy backlit around them so they glow in the dark, just like the ports of the 2013 Mac Pro, wouldn't that be cool? (In all seriousness though, that's one thing I actually liked about the trashcan Mac Pro, though I suppose it would look kinda silly on MacBooks.)
For example... how many new space gray color shades will we see in the MacBook line this year around? What about a golden or rose gold color option or maybe a (PRODUCT)RED one? Or maybe the outlines of the four USB-C ports will get some fancy backlit around them so they glow in the dark, just like the ports of the 2013 Mac Pro, wouldn't that be cool? (In all seriousness though, that's one thing I actually liked about the trashcan Mac Pro, though I suppose it would look kinda silly on MacBooks.)
Pink absolutely, with a nice leather strap
I've used a notebook with USB port's with LED lighting and works really well, equally having an "off switch" is mandatory Q-6
For anyone still hoping for Ryzen Mobile in the MBP - it doesn‘t seem too rosy in benchmarks compared to Intel‘s 8th gen CPUs. Even the integrated Vega GPU gets outperformed by Intel‘s 7th gen CPUs with Iris graphics on some benchmarks, including gaming ones. Vega still wins for playability in more GPU bound games, but still, the leap is not as huge as AMD made us hope.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12709/the-acer-swift-3-sf31541-review-ryzen-meets-laptop/3
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12709/the-acer-swift-3-sf31541-review-ryzen-meets-laptop/3
That's weird. What's interesting though is that there are some Intel AMD systems using Intel for the Processor and AMD for the integrated graphics that apparently outperform Intel's integrated graphics.
I'm probably misunderstanding things so I'll name a model so you guys can concretely disagree with me: Intel NUC. I saw on Linus Tech Tips that there is a new NUC with AMD as integrated. Honestly haven't seen the video in a long time so not sure how the Intel AMD arrangement is in actuality (AMD might not be the integrated i really don't know) but hoping some other techie on this forum paid attention to it.
EDIT: All I know is that AMD and Intel worked together in this product. Don't know exactly how though.
[doublepost=1525671296][/doublepost]https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/07/intel-nuc-amd-rx-vega/
Found the device. I guess its pretty thick so probably not suitable for MBP
I think you’re talking about the G series chips? Basically seems to be an i7-7700HQ with an AMD GPU bolted on that falls between a GTX 1050 and 1050ti in performance (so actually outperforms current machines quite handsomely on the GPU side).
The touch-sensitive (capacitive?) power button on the G4 Cube was a thing of beauty. It felt so futuristic. Why they’ve never used it since is beyond me. It’s little touches like that that made the Mac Difference™.
You are missing the point here. MBP's battery performance has remained essentially unchanged from earlier models, even if the battery capacity has been decreased. Besides, even with 97Wh battery, the Dell XPS's battery runtime is below that of the MBP. I don't really see how its a win to have a heavier computer with a bigger battery if it still can't outperform the lighter one in terms of battery life.
Why 'at any cost'? What Apple is doing here is a very obvious attempt at portability optimisation — keeping the old performance/spec but reducing the size to make the machine more mobile. They mostly succeeded too. Yes, the keyboard suffers from design issues that increases its failure rates by approx. 100% (which is significant), but that is a risk when redesigning something. Its a problem and it will certainly be remedied in the future iterations.
WiFi standard is one thing, actual implementation is another one. The MBP has more antennas. It is actually able to utilise a gigabit connection via wireless when paired with a competent router. XPS, not so much.
This has been discussed quite a lot. There is certainly a truth to what you say (even though I am still very sceptical about actual need or benefit of 32GB is software were competently designed, as these CPUs simply can't utilise that much RAM effectively), but there is also an important consideration of balance. I believe (and I think that was Apple's belief as well) that there are many more customers that wouldn't care about 32GB RAM but would appreciate a more portable machine. And since they didn't want to split the lines, they decided to implement a design that would reflect the need of the majority.
I don't see where this reasoning is coming from. Why are new laptop less reliable than old? Because there is certain negative publicity surrounding the keyboard and the lack of obsolete function keys? Yes, the new keyboard is more prone to issues — quantitative reports show that the failure rates are double of the previous models. But even with that, we are talking about "only" 10% of recorded failure cases being due to keyboard (https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/macbook-pro-keyboard-failure-rate-double-older-models/). And I am not aware of any statistics comparing overall failure rates of pre 2016 and post 2016 models.
As to your other points: the AMD Polaris in the current MBP is better in relative terms than anything Apple has offered for years. A trivial observation: this is probably the first MBP that can still play games comfortable almost 3 years after release. And I/O? There is no other laptop not he market with more flexible or powerful I/O. Yes, you might need adapters/hubs to support your particular use case. Doesn't change the fact that MBP will be still offering external expandability options where any other laptop will choke, simply because they don't have enough I/O lanes.
People keep bringing up being disappointed about no 32gb, but are there any MBP competitors that do have 32gb ram at this point?
I'm not being snarky, I'm seriously asking. The only laptops I'm aware of with that much ram right now are gaming laptops that cost upwards of 4-5k and die in 2.5-3hrs. Certainly the XPS and Surface don't offer a 32gb option.
I'm not being snarky, I'm seriously asking. The only laptops I'm aware of with that much ram right now are gaming laptops that cost upwards of 4-5k and die in 2.5-3hrs. Certainly the XPS and Surface don't offer a 32gb option.
HP Spectre x360 - 32GB of ram possible - ships with 16, and pretty darn easy to add
Gigabyte Aero 15x - 32GB of ram ($2,500 with 16GB and one empty, very very easily accessible ram slot, and dies in 7 hours..)
There's rather a number of options here for the content creator, number cruncher, vm user, etc. MBP needs to step up this year if they want to keep this crowd... but I don't think we'll see that at San Jose, unfortunately.
I don't know the reasoning for the G4 cube power button specifically, but in general there are a number of good reasons to choose a physical power button over a capacitive one. The failure rate is, in general, much higher, it's harder to find them blindly just by feeling with the finger for them, gloves and sweat might prevent them from triggering and it's easier to activate them by accident than with physical buttons (think of your clothes or the fur of your cat brushing over it, etc.).
Sony's Playstation is a good example to this; Sony has experimented with capacitive power buttons multiple times over the various generations (lastly with the 2013 PS4) but still reverted back to physical buttons in the 2016 PS4 Slim and Pro, assumably because of these very issues. A capacitive power button might look better and feel cooler/more futuristic, but it's very possible that Apple contemplated the different arguments but in the end decided to go "function over form" for once with the power buttons since there are not many practical reasons to have them capacitive.
