Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[cool11]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...cbook-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard-failures


Same kind of problem in older mbps too?
What are they doing?
No more sacrifices for a thinner laptop!

 

[Ma2k5]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...cbook-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard-failures


Same kind of problem in older mbps too?
What are they doing?
No more sacrifices for a thinner laptop!

Well the 12" MacBook was first introduced with the butterfly keyboard - so not older "mbp"'s, but new at the time MacBook's.

 

[Poki]

Knowing Apple's greed from a decade of history, the entry 13'' will stay dual core, while high end might be available in quad core. Same strategy for the 15'' inch regarding quad core and six core, as you say.

Knowing even better, the 13'' will stay dual core altogether for another year or two. For Apple, product differentiation and maxmizing profits have more priority than offering attractive choices for the consumers. People are forced to look at PC alternatives instead.

Apple's greed is vastly overstated. For example, the choice to implement only Thunderbolt 3 ports on the MacBook Pro often gets misinterpreted to the point where people think Apple is just so greedy to force consumers to buy adapters. However, Thunderbolt 3 ports are by far the most expensive ports to implement, let alone four of them. Same with the SSDs - yes, a 256 GB SSD might sound like a greedy upsell, but they do come with the fastest speed as standard, as opposed to many competing products which come with slower SSDs on the low end. Same with the CPUs. Apple uses the more expensive 28W GT3e parts instead of the more common and cheaper 15W GT2 parts the vast majority of the competition uses. I also doubt that a custom designed Radeon Pro GPU is cheaper than a stock GTX 1050.

 

[koyoot]

Still not sure if that'll end up only being a desktop release. Most of the info gleaned from the linux driver points to a desktop card but I would be very happy if that were not the case.

May I see any information about it?

If it really is desktop card it will be great.

There are basically 3 designs with Vega GPUs:

Vega 64 - desktop card.
Vega 20 - 7nm shrink of Vega GPU
And Vega Mobile, which appears to be the rumored Vega 12.
If it is really desktop card - that is best news possible.
For me .

 

[John-117]

May I see any information about it?

If it really is desktop card it will be great.

There are basically 3 designs with Vega GPUs:

Vega 64 - desktop card.
Vega 20 - 7nm shrink of Vega GPU
And Vega Mobile, which appears to be the rumored Vega 12.
If it is really desktop card - that is best news possible.
For me .

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-vega-12-graphics-card
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Vega-12-20-AMDGPU-LLVMhttps://wccftech.com/amd-vega-20-ve...atures-support-for-intrinsic-ai-instructions/
http://digiworthy.com/2018/03/27/amd-vega-12-gpu-linux/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8hq56l/amd_radeon_latest_rumors_about_vega_12_and_vega/

To varying to degrees these posit that the Vega 12 could either be a Vega Mobile release or the overdue replacement to the 570/580 Polaris cards. We probably won't know until WWDC though.

 

[koyoot]

If the GPU has 1.98 GHz core clock, then the potential for lowering the TDP is insane. Imagine 1792 GCN core GPU, with 1.2 GHz locked to 35W TDP. Polaris architecture would not be able to do this.

 

[Poki]

If the GPU has 1.98 GHz core clock, then the potential for lowering the TDP is insane. Imagine 1792 GCN core GPU, with 1.2 GHz locked to 35W TDP. Polaris architecture would not be able to do this.

While this is true, I still find it quite remarkable what AMD was able to do with the Radeon Pro 460. At effectively half the TDP of the usual notebook RX460, they provided better performance. In 2016, the Pro 460 was literally unrivaled in terms of performance per watt. If they can pull off that stunt again using a Vega chip, the results should be quite impressive.

 

[koyoot]

While this is true, I still find it quite remarkable what AMD was able to do with the Radeon Pro 460. At effectively half the TDP of the usual notebook RX460, they provided better performance. In 2016, the Pro 460 was literally unrivaled in terms of performance per watt. If they can pull off that stunt again using a Vega chip, the results should be quite impressive.

Why is it remarkable? Lately they have halved TDP on desktop RX 560, by shoving off 84 MHz from core clock, and the GPU went from 90W TDP to 45W TDP.

https://videocardz.com/76028/sapphire-launches-45w-variant-of-radeon-rx-560-pulse

Those are benefits of taking Suzanne Plummer from Zen team, to Radeon team(yep, she was one the people who were responsible for Zen's Efficiency, and she is not in Radeon Technology Group).

 

[Newtons Apple]

If they do not go back to a better keyboard, I will not buy another MBPro. I have had three keyboard go bad before I returned it for a refund. Not doing that again.

 

[Dave245]

If they do not go back to a better keyboard, I will not buy another MBPro. I have had three keyboard go bad before I returned it for a refund. Not doing that again.

3 really? That is bad, have Apple not started a repair program or just swap them out for new ones. It will be interesting to see if they refine it for WWDC and release new versions.

 

[John-117]

If they do not go back to a better keyboard, I will not buy another MBPro. I have had three keyboard go bad before I returned it for a refund. Not doing that again.

After going through the runaround that was the 2011 GPU replacement program I won't be upgrading until an entirely new keyboard design is introduced. Getting a repaired computer with components that are just as likely to fail over and over is incredibly frustrating.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Knowing Apple's greed from a decade of history, the entry 13'' will stay dual core, while high end might be available in quad core. Same strategy for the 15'' inch regarding quad core and six core, as you say.

Knowing even better, the 13'' will stay dual core altogether for another year or two. For Apple, product differentiation and maxmizing profits have more priority than offering attractive choices for the consumers. People are forced to look at PC alternatives instead.



If they are releasing updated models at WWDC, they must have been in mass production already.

If 13" stays Dual Core, I'll just pick a 2017 one then

 

[Poki]

If 13" stays Dual Core, I'll just pick a 2017 one then

I still don't see how Apple could possibly manage to keep the 13" dual core. They could use an 8th gen i3 or Core M chip and sell a notebook with less performance than last year's model, let alone the marketing problems when promoting an "i3" in a €2000 notebook. They could also stick with the current CPUs, but in that case, they wouldn't need to introduce a new model at all.

 

[koyoot]

If 13" stays Dual Core, I'll just pick a 2017 one then

Why would it stay Dual Core, if all 28W and 15W CPUs from U line are going to be Quad Cores(Core i5's and Core i7's)?

 

[Gata]

Why is it remarkable? Lately they have halved TDP on desktop RX 560, by shoving off 84 MHz from core clock, and the GPU went from 90W TDP to 45W TDP.

I'd imagine there's a bit more going on behind the scenes than a simple <10% underclock, but this is nevertheless very promising for a Macbook Pro candidate.

 

[EugW]

I betcha a die shrunk 7 nm Polaris would do quite well, at least with top tier bins.

A fair bit of the benefit of Vega comes from manufacturing process.

Similarly, I suspect a lot of Apple A12's speed boost this time around will come from the die shrink to 7 nm.

 

[afir93]

TBH I'm super scared that Apple is not being able to pull it off to announce a better keyboard for the MPBP at WWDC. It just.. In the timeframe it just doesn't make any sense to me. We already know what their main objective is this year (stability, security for OS) at WWDC and there haven't been any leaks yet that indicate a better and more improved Macbook Pro.. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I mean, with stability, security and reliability being the rumored focus for the products at this year's WWDC, it would make a lot of sense that we also see a MBP on which stability, security and reliability are the focus. I know that these rumors technically only related to the OSes, but a MBP refresh that was designed with the same primary objectives in mind would fit right in. From this perspective the timeframe seems perfect to release a MBP with a more reliable keyboard.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I still don't see how Apple could possibly manage to keep the 13" dual core. They could use an 8th gen i3 or Core M chip and sell a notebook with less performance than last year's model, let alone the marketing problems when promoting an "i3" in a €2000 notebook. They could also stick with the current CPUs, but in that case, they wouldn't need to introduce a new model at all.

This is Apple we are talking....The competition is using 4k near bezelss screens.. While yeah we still at 1440p.

 

[EugW]

This is Apple we are talking....The competition is using 4k near bezelss screens.. While yeah we still at 1440p.

I'd much rather have a top notch 2560x1600 screen than a mediocre 4K screen, when we're talking about the 13" size. Sure, a top notch 4K screen can be even better, but then you have to consider battery life and GPU as well.

Why do I say this? Cuz at 2560x1600, a 13" screen looks awesome at normal seating distances.

For my 12" MacBook, I have NEVER once thought, "Geez, I wish Apple would make this 4K". The 2304x1440p resolution is excellent. What I want on this class of machine is a second USB-C port, USB-C Gen 2 10 Gbps, Thunderbolt 3, a better trackpad, and a better iSight camera. And more travel on the keyboard would be great too.

A higher resolution screen isn't even on the radar.

 

[Poki]

I'd much rather have a top notch 2560x1600 screen than a mediocre 4K screen, when we're talking about the 13" size. Sure, a top notch 4K screen can be even better, but then you have to consider battery life and GPU as well.

Why do I say this? Cuz at 2560x1600, a 13" screen looks awesome at normal seating distances.

For my 12" MacBook, I have NEVER once thought, "Geez, I wish Apple would make this 4K". The 2304x1440p resolution is excellent. What I want on this class of machine is a second USB-C port, USB-C Gen 2 10 Gbps, Thunderbolt 3, a better trackpad, and a better iSight camera. And more travel on the keyboard would be great too.

A higher resolution screen isn't even on the radar.

Exactly this. Color reproduction and brightness are much more important in a notebook than resolution these days, and Apple's displays are up with the best in these regards.

@EugW May I ask why you want a better trackpad? I haven't used the one on the 12" MacBook, but since it should be similar to the one in the MacBook Pro - isn't this already an amazing trackpad, if not the best on the market? What would you improve?

 

[EugW]

@EugW May I ask why you want a better trackpad? I haven't used the one on the 12" MacBook, but since it should be similar to the one in the MacBook Pro - isn't this already an amazing trackpad, if not the best on the market? What would you improve?

I get the impression the haptic engine in the MacBook is not as strong as in the MacBook Pro. Even at maximum click strength, the 12" MacBook's trackpad sometimes can feel a little mushy.

I've compared them side by side in the store and the strongest setting of the MacBook Pro seems stronger than the strongest setting of the MacBook. My personal preference for the MacBook Pro would be its strongest setting, so the MacBook's strongest setting seems weak. And the weakest setting for these laptops is basically unusable IMHO. I don't know if those units I tried in-store are truly representative, but the 12" MacBook I bought feels about the same as the 12" MacBooks I've tried in-store.

Perhaps the reason I feel this way is because I have a 2008 MacBook and a 2009 MacBook Pro at home with the physically clickable no-button trackpads, and they feel closest in my opinion to the strongest click setting of the 2017 MacBook Pro.

 

[Poki]

I've compared them side by side in the store and the strongest setting of the MacBook Pro seems stronger than the strongest setting of the MacBook. My personal preference for the MacBook Pro would be its strongest setting, so the MacBook's strongest setting seems weak. And the weakest setting for these laptops is basically unusable IMHO. I don't know if those units I tried in-store are truly representative, but the 12" MacBook I bought feels about the same as the 12" MacBooks I've tried in-store.

Perhaps the reason I feel this way is because I have a 2008 MacBook and a 2009 MacBook Pro at home with the physically clickable no-button trackpads, and they feel closest in my opinion to the strongest click setting of the 2017 MacBook Pro.

It's kinda funny, I never liked to click the physical buttons, and in fact got used to not clicking a trackpad at all. I use tap to click and three finger drag to completely avoid clicking it in, so this was obviously not a factor I thought about. Thanks for the heads up though, always interesting to hear other people's opinions.

 

[koyoot]

If you all ask me:

I think Vega 12, with 1792 GCN cores, and thanks to HBM2 memory, may be actually able to be fit in Sub 75W TDP, at max. clocks.

If so, we can expect pretty high clocks from this GPU, in 35W TDP environment. I look at the Sapphire Pulse 45W TDP GPU, and it actually is 45-50W TDP GPU, with performance around GTX 1050, while being more efficient, per watt.

I think similar tricks will go to Vega Mobile, because AMD is on "killing" spree, and are investing heavily in tech they will release, thanks to money from Ryzen relases.

I would love to get GTX 1060 6GB desktop performance, from desktop GPU that will be also - fanless . With Vega 12 it may be possible, depending on core clocks.

Vega M GL, the model with 1280 GCN cores in Intel's Canyon NUC is 20W TDP . So I do not see any problem with Vega 12, with 1792 GCN cores, designed from the ground up to be high-clocked architecture, not be sub-75W TDP GPU.

7 nm Navi GPUs are 2H 2019. So AMD has to fill the gap with some product, till then.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I'd much rather have a top notch 2560x1600 screen than a mediocre 4K screen, when we're talking about the 13" size. Sure, a top notch 4K screen can be even better, but then you have to consider battery life and GPU as well.

Why do I say this? Cuz at 2560x1600, a 13" screen looks awesome at normal seating distances.

For my 12" MacBook, I have NEVER once thought, "Geez, I wish Apple would make this 4K". The 2304x1440p resolution is excellent. What I want on this class of machine is a second USB-C port, USB-C Gen 2 10 Gbps, Thunderbolt 3, a better trackpad, and a better iSight camera. And more travel on the keyboard would be great too.

A higher resolution screen isn't even on the radar.

1600p on the 13" I would love it

 

[Mr. Dee]

Even though I am not in the market for a new MacBook Pro, I'm really excited to see what Apple launches in less than a month. Its quite obvious a broad range of Macs will see updates, hopefully the Mac Mini too. I suspect, we will see further improvements to the butterfly keyboard; probably won't be perfect, but even better than the 2016/2017 models.

I think surprises might include a non-touch bar 15 inch model and possible drop in price $100 to $200. Apple might make 16 GBs of RAM standard across all models and use it as a differentiator from the MacBook.

Speaking of the MacBook, we might for the first time see that reach the $999 mark.