Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Goaliegeek]

Why? iPhone workers like to gossip more? Shouldn't computer case manufacturers know what will happen as they should have the cases ready if anything is going to be released in two weeks?

iPhones get physical changes nearly every year, and yes, they are more popular. The last leak for the mbp’s were the new case 2 years ago. If we remove the doubling down on privacy Apple stated and the leaked memo on severe punishment for leaks, then that means no new physical changes for the mbp. It will be the same form factor as it is now, it will have a touch bar, and only the internals will (hopefully) get a bump up. Now that we are two weeks out, maybe something will grace us with it’s potato photo quality, but don’t count on it. I do not recall a 2017 leak.

 

[leman]

Why? iPhone workers like to gossip more? Shouldn't computer case manufacturers know what will happen as they should have the cases ready if anything is going to be released in two weeks?

Different volume production, and also, what can you tell from a case alone? In 2016 a TouchBar case was leaked, sure. The fact that there are no leaks simply shows that the chassis will be without any major changes.

 

[EugW]

I'd be surprised to see a new form factor, since the new chips will nearly be a drop-in replacement. Apple may as well wait until things change more, like with 32 GB LPDDR4/x support.

We'll just have to be patient. It's only two more weeks guys and gals. I must admit though it's easy for me to say that, since I won't be buying anything regardless. I'm set with my 2017 12" Kaby Lake MacBook and 2017 27" Kaby Lake iMac for the foreseeable future.

Here's hoping for 4K iTunes and Netflix streaming on Macs announced on June 4 with 10.14.

 

[hajime]

Different volume production, and also, what can you tell from a case alone? In 2016 a TouchBar case was leaked, sure. The fact that there are no leaks simply shows that the chassis will be without any major changes.

Thanks. If the chassis will be without any major changes, then how likely will Apple put in a good keyboard with those issues fixed? I suppose the keyboard requires certain min height for the keys to have good travel and tolerance against dust.

 

[afir93]

Thanks. If the chassis will be without any major changes, then how likely will Apple put in a good keyboard with those issues fixed? I suppose the keyboard requires certain min height for the keys to have good travel and tolerance against dust.

It's difficult to give any clear likelihood as we don't have much to go on. It's entirely possible that, even without visual changes or bigger changes in general, Apple manages to completely fix the keyboard issues completely; height doesn't necessarily have to do with that.

With all the negative coverage the media has given them and with all the repair costs they had to buckle up on, they'd certainly have an incentive to fix it as soon as they can. But it's also not impossible that there still are some reliability issues left – after all, the 2016 MBPs "Butterfly Keyboard v2" came 1.5 years after the initial butterfly keyboard in the 12" MBs and still didn't fix their issues.

 

[Ener Ji]

Here's hoping for 4K iTunes and Netflix streaming on Macs announced on June 4 with 10.14.

Don't forget HDR support, too!

 

[leman]

Thanks. If the chassis will be without any major changes, then how likely will Apple put in a good keyboard with those issues fixed? I suppose the keyboard requires certain min height for the keys to have good travel and tolerance against dust.

Why would you suppose that? Who says its impossible to fix whatever design issues they have without actually changing the physical parameters of the keyboard?

There are two possibilities really. Either Apple says that they have improved the keyboard, or they say nothing. If they say nothing, they either might have improved it or not. At any rate, we won't know anyway before some time passes. So far, there was only one quantitative study about the keyboard failures, and according to that study your chance of experiencing a keyboard failure on the 2016/2017 MBP is very low. Twice as high as on older models, but still very low (we are talking about 2% or so of all laptops). Its of course also more complicated, since people who work on their laptop a lot and/or work in more dusty/dirty environment are probably more prone to problems. As far as we know, the issue is caused by accumulating debree, which at some point damages the switches.

 

[maflynn]

Why? iPhone workers like to gossip more? Shouldn't computer case manufacturers know what will happen as they should have the cases ready if anything is going to be released in two weeks?

I'm going to guess that market size, and interest. Only a tiny fraction of people are interested in a new MBP, but not so for the iPhone

 

[Mr. Dee]

Why? iPhone workers like to gossip more? Shouldn't computer case manufacturers know what will happen as they should have the cases ready if anything is going to be released in two weeks?

The average user keeps their Mac for up to 5 years, most replace their iPhone within 2 to 3 years. Macs are kinda at the zenith of design after 30 years. There really isn't much more Apple can do outside the box with the design. The only thing thats left for them to do is add a touch screen and I don't think thats gonna happen until the next major rev in 2020 when the switch to ARM.

 

[maflynn]

The only thing thats left for them to do is

Add a keyboard that works

 

[wxkkeup]

The only thing thats left for them to do is

Quad Core in the 13.
[doublepost=1526927342][/doublepost]&Super Slim Bezels with a notch for Face ID w/o adding any width to the monitor!

 

[vseera]

The only thing thats left for them to do is

put in 32GB of Ram.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Those asking for a 32 GB are either a small minority or a niche group of users. Why do you think more people are interested in a new iPhone than a new MacBook Pro? Because the iPhone is already meeting most of their needs. They listen to music on it, stream videos on Netflix, communicate with family and friends using Skype or Facetime, instant messaging and email, edit the occasional Word document once in a blue moon, send and receive calls, play games, take pictures, record 4k videos, share them instantly with whoever or where ever they want.

If an iPhone with 2 to 3 GBs of RAM is meeting those demanding needs and is with you everywhere, why can't a MacBook Pro with 8 GBs of RAM? Anyone asking for more beyond than that is an actual niche user and more so a content creator or best friends with Steve Urkle.

 

[haydn!]

Comparing a consumer smartphone and a professional grade notebook. Yeah, you lost me there.

 

[vseera]

While my 32GB ram comment was a joke as so many on this forum have been asking for it, comparing a phone to a laptop just makes me think you've been drinking the Apple koolaid too long.

No, an iPad is not a laptop replacement and no, an iPhone isn't just like an iPad and hence, a small laptop replacement.

No, I cannot code on an iPad or a phone and no, I cannot run VMs (which I need to for work) on a phone.

And yes, I definitely need more than 8GB of ram. I usually have 2 VMs running and a few programs and that's enough to saturate my current 8GB and slow things down.

If all you want to do is "listen to music on it, stream videos on Netflix, communicate with family and friends using Skype or Facetime, instant messaging and email, edit the occasional Word document once in a blue moon, send and receive calls, play games, take pictures, record 4k videos, share them instantly with whoever or where ever they want" then yes, you need a phone or iPad.

I LOLed at the "edit the occasional Word document once in a blue moon" comment

 

[wxkkeup]

ugh i wish siri wasn;t so fing dumb
[doublepost=1526935325][/doublepost]if that intelligent assistant isn't announced at WWDC with a game-changing innovation .. i quit

 

[Ma2k5]

The average user keeps their Mac for up to 5 years, most replace their iPhone within 2 to 3 years. Macs are kinda at the zenith of design after 30 years. There really isn't much more Apple can do outside the box with the design. The only thing thats left for them to do is add a touch screen and I don't think thats gonna happen until the next major rev in 2020 when the switch to ARM.

Think you are going off on some tangent now.

As for the 32GB argument, I’d argue even if you don’t need it now, who knows what program demands might be in 3-4 years, I mean at that price, you’d hope to be using the machine for a long time (5+ years).

I mean people who are still on there 2012/2013 machines have managed this far by being able to upgrade components - as these new MacBooks aren’t upgradable and b), you are paying top dollar - 32GB does start making more sense, especially for the “Pro” line.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Comparing a consumer smartphone and a professional grade notebook. Yeah, you lost me there.

The problem is, you are lost in the product and not what you can do with it. Its not the product that makes the professional, its the professional that makes the product. If a professional photographer can be using the iPhone X in the field; if Apple is using images of portrait lighting in its marketing ads, why isn't it professional? The argument is no different from 30 years ago when persons described the GUI as for amateurs and command line UI's for real men.

I remember when Jony Ive took Charlie Rose to the Design Studio. I saw designers there working on CAD files on pre-2012 iMacs, not even Mac Pros.

If you need a computer saying 'Pro' in it to make you feel like a professional, you need to do some serious introspection. One image I will never forget is of the Microsoft Office for Mac engineers using a bunch of Mac Mini's to compile new versions of Office. Another one was seeing a Macintosh Performa (Performa) in Max Martin's studio used in the production of pretty much the vast majority of pop artists in the 90's. Those are over a billion dollar dollars of revenues that was good enough for a 'professional' music producer produced on an off the shelf home targeted computer.

 

[koyoot]

News from a guy, who put out the cat, about the 10 nm problems Intel faced, for past 2-3 years.

https://twitter.com/CDemerjian/status/998677220116893696
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2018/05/21/when-is-intels-10nm-process-scheduled-for/

Apple may not have substantial hardware upgrades architecture wise for next 2-3 years.

 

[Ma2k5]

News from a guy, who put out the cat, about the 10 nm problems Intel faced, for past 2-3 years.

https://twitter.com/CDemerjian/status/998677220116893696
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2018/05/21/when-is-intels-10nm-process-scheduled-for/

Apple may not have substantial hardware upgrades architecture wise for next 2-3 years.

Makes sense - wonder if they plan to go all out RISC CPU and away from x86 for their next redesign. Guess it would remove their dependency on Intel.

 

[koyoot]

Makes sense - wonder if they plan to go all out RISC CPU and away from x86 for their next redesign. Guess it would remove their dependency on Intel.

If you ask me.

There is an x86 vendor, that is Semi-Custom, and has access to fabs.

Its AMD.

 

[haydn!]

The problem is, you are lost in the product and not what you can do with it. Its not the product that makes the professional, its the professional that makes the product. If a professional photographer can be using the iPhone X in the field; if Apple is using images of portrait lighting in its marketing ads, why isn't it professional? The argument is no different from 30 years ago when persons described the GUI as for amateurs and command line UI's for real men.

I remember when Jony Ive took Charlie Rose to the Design Studio. I saw designers there working on CAD files on pre-2012 iMacs, not even Mac Pros.

If you need a computer saying 'Pro' in it to make you feel like a professional, you need to do some serious introspection. One image I will never forget is of the Microsoft Office for Mac engineers using a bunch of Mac Mini's to compile new versions of Office. Another one was seeing a Macintosh Performa (Performa) in Max Martin's studio used in the production of pretty much the vast majority of pop artists in the 90's. Those are over a billion dollar dollars of revenues that was good enough for a 'professional' music producer produced on an off the shelf home targeted computer.

It’s not about having a machine labelled pro to do a professional task, or feel professional. It’s about having a device that is designed to do what you need it to do well, professional or not. But seeing as most people around here are professionals in some capacity, let’s look at it from their perspective, and that is where I take issue with in your iPhone/MacBook Pro comparison.

Yes, an iPhone excels at photography. It really does, but that is pretty much where it’s professional use ends, beyond being a damn good business phone. For example, what if you need to then edit those photos... your work flow is cut short short by limited capability in a mobile version of a desktop app. Then looking at some other professional tasks, even the most basic, writing, the iPhone is not a practical device for doing that beyond some quick edits on the go. And like others have pointed out, you have no hope if you want to do something that requires a multi-file setup like web development or programming. In short, just because a device can do some tasks well, it doesn’t make it the right device to do them on, and there is no shame in using multiple devices to achieve your workflow.

And no, you don’t need a MacBook Pro for many professional workflows, a £250 chromebook is more than enough for pros in some fields. But then there are also some pros that genuinely do need that additional power combined with mobility that Apple just isn’t offering right now. Is that me, no. Is it you, doesn’t sound like it. But that doesn’t mean the need doesn’t exist.

 

[Mr. Dee]

It’s not about having a machine labelled pro to do a professional task, or feel professional. It’s about having a device that is designed to do what you need it to do well, professional or not. But seeing as most people around here are professionals in some capacity, let’s look at it from their perspective, and that is where I take issue with in your iPhone/MacBook Pro comparison.

Yes, an iPhone excels at photography. It really does, but that is pretty much where it’s professional use ends, beyond being a damn good business phone. For example, what if you need to then edit those photos... your work flow is cut short short by limited capability in a mobile version of a desktop app. Then looking at some other professional tasks, even the most basic, writing, the iPhone is not a practical device for doing that beyond some quick edits on the go. And like others have pointed out, you have no hope if you want to do something that requires a multi-file setup like web development or programming. In short, just because a device can do some tasks well, it doesn’t make it the right device to do them on, and there is no shame in using multiple devices to achieve your workflow.

And no, you don’t need a MacBook Pro for many professional workflows, a £250 chromebook is more than enough for pros in some fields. But then there are also some pros that genuinely do need that additional power combined with mobility that Apple just isn’t offering right now. Is that me, no. Is it you, doesn’t sound like it. But that doesn’t mean the need doesn’t exist.

So, you are telling me you need a MacBook Pro for word processing?

Seriously, your credibility ends there. Because no matter how you look at it, a MacBook Pro can only go so far itself for content creation. That same photographer I mentioned, doesn't even use a MacBook Pro as his main editing station. He travels with a iMac Pro for that. Macrumors recently highlighted it in an article.

My comparison wasn't about one necessarily being better than the other, but the reality is, prior to June 29th 2007, a large group of Mac users would spend money on the very best just to do some mundane things, even if Apple offered entry level models for their needs. This included the things I mentioned.

I remember in 2007 when I was doing vocational studies, a student attending the same institution had a MacBook Pro. She really had no use for it beyond running Peach Tree accounting and Microsoft Word 2007 in Boot Camp. But she had a top of the line MacBook Pro because her husband bought it for her.

I remember earlier that year too, I use to hang out at a local print shop. A guy working there visiting from Mexico was using some old 1998 iMac G3's to run Photoshop and Illustrator CS1 on 10.3 to create amazing T-shirt logos and making a killing out of it. He made so much money off those Macs, he was able to go back to Mexico and start his own business.

Now, a iMac G3 in 2007 was not state of the art, but it was doing really professional work. Another memory from that time happened when I was invited to visit a guy at a local PC repair shop to check out his MacBook Pro. When I checked out what he had on it, just a bunch of photos and an empty Finder. Its obvious this guy wasn't using it for much.

Its just like how many Pro users are countering that Apple needs to have a highend Mac Pro modular workstation in order for professionals to live. Yet, they have pretty much migrated to a specced out iMac or even the recent iMac Pro. If you check out over at the Mac Pro forums, it has pretty much quite down.

It even goes back to the Mini computer vs the Workstation vs the PC itself. Eventually the Mini and Workstation became a niche because a PC could do most of what those high end computers did for really cheap.

Is that me, no. Is it you, doesn’t sound like it. But that doesn’t mean the need doesn’t exist.

Which is exactly what I said, but it looks like you just figured it out while writing everything you said. Not everyone needs a MacBook Pro and many are getting the job done across a variety of devices and platforms including the iPhone. Its same case of some needing something more powerful than a MacBook Pro so they choose a Dell or HP.

 

[komatta]

I think the only make-or-break update for me is whether they adjust/update the keyboard. Otherwise I can live with the touchbar and usb-c ports (not my preference). Currently on a late 2013 13" rMBP, with 8gb ram/256gb ssd and dual core (obviously).

Would be great to go to a quad core with 16gb ram/512gb ssd--basically doubling my specs--preferably still with the 13" size.

 

[hajime]

Why would you suppose that? Who says its impossible to fix whatever design issues they have without actually changing the physical parameters of the keyboard?

There are two possibilities really. Either Apple says that they have improved the keyboard, or they say nothing. If they say nothing, they either might have improved it or not. At any rate, we won't know anyway before some time passes. So far, there was only one quantitative study about the keyboard failures, and according to that study your chance of experiencing a keyboard failure on the 2016/2017 MBP is very low. Twice as high as on older models, but still very low (we are talking about 2% or so of all laptops). Its of course also more complicated, since people who work on their laptop a lot and/or work in more dusty/dirty environment are probably more prone to problems. As far as we know, the issue is caused by accumulating debree, which at some point damages the switches.

Well... If Apple does not put back the pre-2016 keyboard to the new MBP (which seems to be the case) and keep the current chasis, then it means that they just make some small changes of the 2017 keyboard. It also means that those buying the MBP 2018 are going to be guinea pigs/beta testers paying the expensive laptops to do the testings for Apple.