Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[vseera]

So with all this talk about the quad core CPUs throttling in the new Windows laptops, Apple perhaps not having sufficient room for a better cooling solution in the current design, etc.

Do people now feel that instead of October, the new MBPs might be released next year, taking the added time to get things right with the cooling etc? Also, maybe the keyboard gets fixed too.

The more I read this thread, the more I get the feeling that due to the really confusing Intel situation and not enough headroom for thermals for the quad core chips, Apple could be looking at taking their time to get things right rather than just release something soon.

 

[maflynn]

So with all this talk about the quad core CPUs throttling in the new Windows laptops, Apple perhaps not having sufficient room for a better cooling solution in the current design, etc.

I could have missed some of the discussions but only the Dell XPS is suffering from throttling. This issue (I guess) was present in the Kaby lake XPS, but when Dell put in the hex-core cpu, that just exasperated the issue. There are many windows laptops that do thermal management better then dell.

As for Apple, I think they have a handle on the current thermal management so I'm not sure they'd have issues in the 2018 model but I don't own a 2016/2017 so I may be unaware of heat issues in those laptops.

The more I read this thread, the more I get the feeling that due to the really confusing Intel situation and not enough headroom for thermals for the quad core chips,

Manufacturers do get these chipsets in advance and so they've been working on coffee lake machines for some time, which is surprising/disappointing that dell hadn't done anything to improve thermal management. Razer took their time and rolled out a brand new 15" laptop (their prior models were only 14") and it uses a vapor chamber instead of heatpipes. I mention only because we have a company that has a 15" laptop out with coffee lake, a great GPU and very good thermal management. We don't see anything from apple, and since Apple is so secretive (which is both good and bad), its hard to say why they're not releasing a 2018 model right now. I'm of the opinion that its not the thermal management that they're working on but the keyboard, I have to believe they're re-working the keyboard to make it sturdier, whether its the 3rd generation butterfly or going back to the scissor mechanism.

 

[Mr. Dee]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems Apple might be making some significant changes to the MacBook Pro this year. It centers around the keyboard.

I expect to see a price drop, non-touchbar 15 inch, keyboard travel thats extremely close to the original.

 

[maflynn]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems Apple might be making some significant changes to the MacBook Pro this year. It centers around the keyboard.

I think they're working on a new keyboard but the major redesign won't be happening this year. I truly believe they'll be rolling out ARM based laptops and when that occurs we'll see a brand new design

 

[Glmnet1]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems Apple might be making some significant changes to the MacBook Pro this year. It centers around the keyboard.

I expect to see a price drop, non-touchbar 15 inch, keyboard travel thats extremely close to the original.

Based on the number of days since the last update only, it would make sense because this is starting to look more like a May 2015 to October 2016 touch bar update. We're already 2 months past the average.

OTOH the last redesign is very recent and it would be unusual for Apple to make another one that fast.

 

[meteoreos]

Would the Coffee Lake 45w chips boast decent iGPU? I'm talking about the Iris Pro level of graphics.

 

[vseera]

It’s so frustrating because I really need a computer right now and am almost decided on the MBP TB 13 but would hate myself if Apple releases one in September with a fixed keyboard.

Looking to get AppleCare anyway but would rather not deal with the hassle of replacements.

 

[Huddy]

It’s so frustrating because I really need a computer right now and am almost decided on the MBP TB 13 but would hate myself if Apple releases one in September with a fixed keyboard.

Looking to get AppleCare anyway but would rather not deal with the hassle of replacements.

I wouldn't let the keyboard issue stop you if you really need to buy now, sure there does seem to be a slightly higher than normal failure rate on the current keyboard and for all the people that have experienced this issue, there are plenty that haven't.

The question should be can you wait until they release the next MBP? At this point it's anyone's guess when that actually happens.

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

No New MacBook Pro yet?? That's very odd. Normally they would have updated by now. It's been over a year. What happened to the big release in June?

I'm tired of waiting. With a horrible keyboard already and lack of ports plus no SD slot, I'm just going to buy the 2015 MacBook Pro. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I miss Steve Jobs.

 

[Canuckovitch]

I just found a 13" 2015 MBP with 16GB on eBay for $1000, so I picked that up. Should do me fine for a year or two, long enough to see if Apple rectifies some of their design issues. If not, I'll be looking at the Dells, Razers or Lenovos, or whoever is making a better professional laptop than them at that point.

I'm a programmer, so the keyboard is pretty important. I spend a lot of desk time with a mechanical keyboard plugged in, but I travel, and get a laptop for its portability, so can't rely on that all the time.

I was living with a 15" 2009 MBP for years up until last summer, when I finally upgraded to a 13" 2017 model with TB. It was… mostly fine. The difference in size & weight was night & day of course. It was nice & fast. But the keyboard did not feel good. I found no real use for the touchbar, and would trade it for a physical Esc key in a hot second (but would rather not have to compromise cooling & ports to do so!)

I did not run into issues with a broken keyboard before the laptop got stolen in a break-in a few months later. Bummer.

But in thinking about whether to replace it, I found I had no desire to do so with a 2016-17 model. My day job supplies me with a 2015 13", which I barely notice the weight of in my bag compared to the 2009 one. They really don't need to be thinner or lighter than that, IMO. It has a nice feeling keyboard. It has magsafe, which is a great feature. With the unibody and overall solid engineering, it really feels like the peak of laptop design to me.

So while I'm not totally in line with the doom & gloom crowd, I think the current design is not a great one, as somebody who's used Apple machines professionally for close to 20 years:

• As a programmer, a good keyboard is essential. Reliability issues are bad, and the current keyboard does not feel good to type on. (YMMV, obviously.)
• The touchbar did nothing for me. I barely ever look down at the keyboard, and a physical Esc key is more useful to me than the whole TB. It would be great if this was optional without compromising the cooling or ports, or dropped.
  
• 16GB of RAM is essential for having VMs running. Can sympathize with folks who need more now, but I don't work with real big data, so I'm not somebody who really needs more than that, and can wait for low power DDR4.
  
• I don't mind much about ports. A decent quality USB C->A adapter is $6 on Amazon, which covers most legacy connections, and I'm mostly only connecting to monitors at my desk. Keeping a couple of dongles, or a small hub in my bag while the rest of the world catches up to USB C doesn't bother me much.
  
• Magsafe was a great feature though, and charging in any port never occurred to me as something missing?

Oh well. While I kind of wish they'd just go back to the basic 2015 design with better internals and faster ports, I know that's not likely to happen. Will wait and see. While I do prefer MacOS, I can certainly learn to live with Linux or Windows if they continue in the wrong direction for me in the next couple of years.

 

[hajime]

No New MacBook Pro yet?? That's very odd. Normally they would have updated by now. It's been over a year. What happened to the big release in June?

I'm tired of waiting. With a horrible keyboard already and lack of ports plus no SD slot, I'm just going to buy the 2015 MacBook Pro. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I miss Steve Jobs.

I miss big brother Steve too. When he was in charge, I did not waste time in making purchase decision nor check for reviews on possible issues. I just bought the latest maxed version.

 

[AdamA9]

Do students really need the power though? It's not like Haswells are that much slower than the Coffee Lake chips in 95% of real world applications.

Certain students will care about the processor gen, but most students looking for a new laptop just know "i7 is faster than i5" and will go "Oh the Mac has an i5 or an i7 just like these Acers and Dells"

I work in a tech company... and even a very-techy colleague of mine was like:
"Why is this machine slower? It has an i7... this one only has an i5!!!"
And I was like... "Umm... because i3, i5, and i7 is ONLY useful as a designation of the same CLASS of CPUs. A 45W i7 is faster than a 45W i5... in this case the i7 also has hyper threading while the i5 doesn't! And here you have a 15W i7... vs a 45W i5... ofc is the i5 FASTER!!!" He was mind-blown.

To be fair, and I speak from the view of the average consumer, I really don't think many people look at the i3, i5, or i7 and wonder whether it is Coffee Lake, Sky Lake, Whatever Lake. Most, I would argue, probably just assume an i7 is better than an i5 etc. and buy a laptop. I highly doubt many go to the lengths to research each processor and the speed variances depending on each configuration.

We just buy the damn thing, usually based on recommendation in store, or by looking at which number is bigger than the other, not the release date of the processor or eGPU. When I bought my 2013 I just ticked the top option. I think most just tick based on the features they want, e.g., 13" or 15", TB or nTB etc.

I tend to think power users overthink how the average user purchases Apple products. Look at the 2017 Macbook refresh in June last year. Apple sold just as many laptops in Q2 as they did in Q3, which to me shows just how much the average user waits for the latest tech and refreshes.

On a side note has high sierra gotten any better i know there was a lot of people complaining about it.

I've JUST updated my Retina MacBook Pro (late 2013) to High Sierra, works a charm and no issues whatsoever so far. Only updated to get the latest Xcode. I read a tonne of horror stories, but decided to just bite the damn bullet.

 

[CodeJoy]

Would the Coffee Lake 45w chips boast decent iGPU? I'm talking about the Iris Pro level of graphics.

I don't believe any of the 8th gen mobile chips have Iris Pro level graphics. And correct me if I'm wrong, but for 7th gen, wasn't it only the 15W and 28W parts that had Iris Pro graphics?

Another things I personally find somewhat disappointing is that none of the 8th gen parts support AVX 512, not even the i9 or the Xeon mobile processors. It's a narrow niche, I know, but for me that would be a pretty awesome feature.

 

[vseera]

I don't believe any of the 8th gen mobile chips have Iris Pro level graphics. And correct me if I'm wrong, but for 7th gen, wasn't it only the 15W and 28W parts that had Iris Pro graphics?

Another things I personally find somewhat disappointing is that none of the 8th gen parts support AVX 512, not even the i9 or the Xeon mobile processors. It's a narrow niche, I know, but for me that would be a pretty awesome feature.

Actually, according to the page listed below, they all have "Iris Plus" level graphics, which is equivalent to Iris Pro (I think). The parts Apple uses are different than what the other manufacturers use.
So if Lenovo is using an i7-8550u, Apple might use the i7-8559u.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1260...-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro/3

 

[Sterkenburg]

17", 3840x1200
i9
32/64GB RAM
512GB - 4TB SSD
Vega GPU

Put a high price tag on it. Only people/company who really need this would purchase it any way. Myself included.
But chances of something like this happening are none

I've been envisioning this kind of configuration in my mind for a few years, but I've come to grips with the idea that Apple will never make this type of machine. They have never envisioned the MBP as a portable workstation in the first place, and their recent design choices all but exacerbated the situation.

Vega --> I'm positive we'll get it when the chips are ready. Obviously it will still be a mid-range GPU.
i9 --> Hopefully, unless Apple runs into heat/throttling issues. Competitors are starting to offer it, though, and in my book a powerful 6-core CPU would be the only thing to look forward to if the MBP was updated now. Assuming they fix the damn keyboard, that is, otherwise it's a no go for me.
32/64GB --> We'll get the 32GB eventually, but when? Intel's schedule is so messed up with its constant delays that we are looking at least to a 1 year wait for LPDDR4, if not more. By then, Apple will be like 3 years late to the party compared to the competition.
4K 16:10 screen --> Not until the next redesign, maybe
17" --> Let's forget it, I've personally given up

All considered, after a decade of using MBP as my primary computer I'm now looking for alternatives.

 

[Ma2k5]

Actually, according to the page listed below, they all have "Iris Plus" level graphics, which is equivalent to Iris Pro (I think). The parts Apple uses are different than what the other manufacturers use.
So if Lenovo is using an i7-8550u, Apple might use the i7-8559u.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1260...-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro/3

Should note that even the most powerful iGPU in Coffeelake is GT3e tier, doesn't look like they will be doing GT4e tier any more.

 

[TheralSadurns]

To be fair, and I speak from the view of the average consumer, I really don't think many people look at the i3, i5, or i7 and wonder whether it is Coffee Lake, Sky Lake, Whatever Lake. Most, I would argue, probably just assume an i7 is better than an i5 etc. and buy a laptop. I highly doubt many go to the lengths to research each processor and the speed variances depending on each configuration.

We just buy the damn thing, usually based on recommendation in store, or by looking at which number is bigger than the other, not the release date of the processor or eGPU. When I bought my 2013 I just ticked the top option. I think most just tick based on the features they want, e.g., 13" or 15", TB or nTB etc.

I tend to think power users overthink how the average user purchases Apple products. Look at the 2017 Macbook refresh in June last year. Apple sold just as many laptops in Q2 as they did in Q3, which to me shows just how much the average user waits for the latest tech and refreshes.



I've JUST updated my Retina MacBook Pro (late 2013) to High Sierra, works a charm and no issues whatsoever so far. Only updated to get the latest Xcode. I read a tonne of horror stories, but decided to just bite the damn bullet.

Ya and that is the problem. An i5 (45W) is FASTER than an i7 (15W)!!!

 

[Falhófnir]

Nope, it seems... Yet another lake has appeared.

Comet Lake U

This appears to represent Cannon Lake U built on 14++ nm, likely with 32 GB LPDDR4x support, to debut 2019 Q2.

Intel are literally imploding before our eyes, it’s painful to watch - it seems all they can do now is muddy the waters whilst scrambling to put out ‘new’ chips on a vaguely yearly release cycle... if the density they are aiming for is virtually or impossible to make work, it looks like once ‘more cores’ is no longer an option, we’ve hit a power wall that’s going to take a revolution to overcome...

Would the Coffee Lake 45w chips boast decent iGPU? I'm talking about the Iris Pro level of graphics.

Well the i7-8559U is a 28W quad core that actually out-performs a 45W 4770HQ, with iris plus 655 and support for 32GB RAM - if they made a 15” with this (sans the ram which I don’t need) I’d personally jump at it at this point.

Edit: the RAM has to be DDR4 so no good for MacBooks

 

[Glmnet1]

Should note that even the most powerful iGPU in Coffeelake is GT3e tier, doesn't look like they will be doing GT4e tier any more.

What's the difference between GT4e and GT3e? I googled it but it's confusing

 

[Ma2k5]

What's the difference between GT4e and GT3e? I googled it but it's confusing

It is a tier list, so a higher one would usually offer more GLFOPS, shaders, exec units, possibly clock speed/edram etc. For example, the P580 was the last GT4e iGPU, and would out preform the best coffeelake iGPU.

Sayhing that, GT3e is very capable and I don't think we've ever had a GT4e MacBook (sadly!).

 

[mbonness]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems Apple might be making some significant changes to the MacBook Pro this year. It centers around the keyboard.

I expect to see a price drop, non-touchbar 15 inch, keyboard travel thats extremely close to the original.

I really hope you're right, but I seriously doubt they'll effectively abandon those flagship technologies so soon.

 

[The Mercurian]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems Apple might be making some significant changes to the MacBook Pro this year. It centers around the keyboard.

I expect to see a price drop, non-touchbar 15 inch, keyboard travel thats extremely close to the original.

Hmm I dunno. I'm thinking while all the focus is on the keyboard, I figure they might also be monkeying about with the touchbar. While I would be happy if they dumped it completely, I highly doubt they will. Instead I expect we will see a tweaked keyboard and a tweaked/evolved Touchbar.

I think they're working on a new keyboard but the major redesign won't be happening this year. I truly believe they'll be rolling out ARM based laptops and when that occurs we'll see a brand new design

ARM based laptops are a mistake, unless they can somehow maintain the ability to run Windows

 

[zmon]

Intel are literally imploding before our eyes, it’s painful to watch - it seems all they can do now is muddy the waters whilst scrambling to put out ‘new’ chips on a vaguely yearly release cycle... if the density they are aiming for is virtually or impossible to make work, it looks like once ‘more cores’ is no longer an option, we’ve hit a power wall that’s going to take a revolution to overcome...

Well the i7-8559U is a 28W quad core that actually out-performs a 45W 4770HQ, with iris plus 655 and support for 32GB RAM - if they made a 15” with this (sans the ram which I don’t need) I’d personally jump at it at this point.

Edit: the RAM has to be DDR4 so no good for MacBooks

Meh, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't at least looked towards AMD's Ryzen Mobile, although the lack of a memory controller with LPDDR3/LPDDR4 support nixes that real quick. With the recent BS Intel has been spewing, I'm fairly surprised their stocks haven't taken a bigger hit than they have.

None of the 8th gen H chips have Iris graphics, so you're stuck with the anemic UHD 630. That's why Apple tosses in a discrete chip on the 15's.

TBH, Intel's mobile i5/i7 designations are a mess. There really is no benefit to getting the i7 over the i5 unless you really need that extra non-turbo boost speed seeing as both have hyperthreading, unlike their desktop counterparts where only the i7 has hyperthreading. I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel kill off HT on the mobile i5's in the future going forward.

 

[Falhófnir]

Meh, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't at least looked towards AMD's Ryzen Mobile, although the lack of a memory controller with LPDDR3/LPDDR4 support nixes that real quick. With the recent BS Intel has been spewing, I'm fairly surprised their stocks haven't taken a bigger hit than they have.

None of the 8th gen H chips have Iris graphics, so you're stuck with the anemic UHD 630. That's why Apple tosses in a discrete chip on the 15's.

TBH, Intel's mobile i5/i7 designations are a mess. There really is no benefit to getting the i7 over the i5 unless you really need that extra non-turbo boost speed seeing as both have hyperthreading, unlike their desktop counterparts where only the i7 has hyperthreading. I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel kill off HT on the mobile i5's in the future going forward.

The lack of hyperthreading was also the big difference between i5 and i7 for 6th and 7th gen H series chips - I guess they decided 4C/8T vs 6C/12T was a big enough difference - in that way the new i5Hs are to all intents and purposes an i7-7700HQ. I believe the 5th gen chips were the last that had 47W iris (pro at the time, plus now) graphics options. I was expecting to see the 2012-15 model updated with broadwell alongside the new design debuting with skylake (as they did with the 2012 retina and non retina models, but Apple were apparently no longer feeling generous by then). With the 8th gen U series being so competent, I wouldn’t be surprised (or object to) the entry iGPU only 15” using those chips going forward.

This jump to 10nm really has messed Intel up, for whatever reason (they maintain its overreaching on transistor density, not the process itself) and while they still have a pretty big lead in single core performance over AMD that lead is surely being eaten into by the day while they keep putting out endless refinements of the 14nm chips that aren’t making meaningful progress on that front.

 

[CodeJoy]

Actually, according to the page listed below, they all have "Iris Plus" level graphics, which is equivalent to Iris Pro (I think). The parts Apple uses are different than what the other manufacturers use.
So if Lenovo is using an i7-8550u, Apple might use the i7-8559u.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1260...-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro/3

Hmmm, it does indeed look like those parts have been released now. I somehow missed that. Still no Iris gfx on the 45W parts which was the original question, but still nice that these chips are available. I wouldn't mind a 15" nTB option with one of those 28W chips
[doublepost=1528830419][/doublepost]

ARM based laptops are a mistake, unless they can somehow maintain the ability to run Windows

Sadly, mistakes appear to be a core component of Apple strategy these days.
[doublepost=1528830825][/doublepost]

Meh, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple hasn't at least looked towards AMD's Ryzen Mobile, although the lack of a memory controller with LPDDR3/LPDDR4 support nixes that real quick.

Somehow I think that if Apple were to show real interest in Ryzen Mobile, that's something that could get added real quick. Might get added for next refresh anyway, though I don't know of any rumors to indicate either way. But it doesn't matter, because it won't happen in the middle of a product cycle anyway.