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The way I see it, the problems Apple aimed to address with the TB were:
tbh, I'm not really worked up over the TB, for the 2018 model, I really hope we see an updated keyboard that doesn't have the issues we're seeing in the 2016 and 2017 models.

Am very not happy about, but I completely agree with Dave2D here:
I'm a big fan of Dave2D, I really enjoy his videos. In that linked video, I agree with him 100%
 
Am very not happy about, but I completely agree with Dave2D here:
I enjoy his videos, he's always to the point, never overly critical, yet will point out issues if they exist. I was thinking when I saw his video that it coming from him particularly, that's really bad news.

Personally I'm torn on whether I agree or not. Apple are a bit late with the refresh, but it will be out in the next few months. That's a bit later than some of the competition, but I don't know how much of a disaster it is really. Of course in these forums people will kick and scream and want refreshes a year before even the chips are out, but in the larger picture is it actually a disaster to be 2-3 months behind?
 
I could not agree more. There could be much more separation between the series. It’s very unfortunate that creative pros such as video and photographers have to settle for hardware that’s optimized for portability. In a sense, the naming convention is bad, because the non-pro models are really not non-pro. They are just targeted at people with workloads that are less compute-intensive, such as writers or traveling sales people. Yet these customers may be drawn towards the Pro, simply because it’s called ”Pro”.
I think at the core of that problem is that the lineup is geared towards getting people to spend as much money as possible, not offering the options that would suit the widest number of people’s needs best. Take the latest lineup - there’s only one non pro laptop, and it’s a piddly little thing that’s probably too small for anyone’s use other than those who really want somenthing for constantly moving around with. If you want even a 13” screen you have to move up to a ‘pro’ which is actually an ultrabook masquerading as a workstation, with the price to reflect it’s advertised purpose, not it’s actual configuration. If you spend even more money (getting into real capable workstation territory) you can get a slightly souped up ultrabook too.

If, like myself you find screens under 15” too small to comfortably work on but still what a laptop, your single option is a very expensive machine that is a competent workstation for moderate loads, certainly, but has to try and cover everyone from those who only need ultrabook levels of power to those who need the most powerful portable possible, and at the two ends of the spectrum it is not really a suitable option. I have no use for a dedicated GPU on a MacBook, it’s wasted power that will sit idle, but I still have to pay for it. As an alternative they still offer the now seriously ageing 2015 model, which is starting to be handicapped by missing out on newer intel technologies and standards if not actual raw power.

Meanwhile when you examine the competition, you aren’t faced with paying an extra £2-300 for an objectively better machine, now you’re looking at an extra £800-£1,000 for a machine with it’s fair share of issues against competition which has gotten better and better. The thing that keeps me from jumping at the moment is the hope Apple will come back with something that’s as much of a no brainier as the 2015 machine was at the time.
 
The way I see it, the problems Apple aimed to address with the TB were:

(1) A vast majority of people weren't using or taking advantage of the the classical fn keys anymore (outside of system functions which are more suitable for a touch-like interface anyway), yet the fn keys occupied space on the central part of the laptop for everyone.

(2) Useful functions oftentimes have to be tucked away in submenus or the menubar because there's no great place on-screen to display them in a given situation. This is an increasing problem since both macOS and iOS get tons of new features each year, yet Apple aims to keep the systems simple and intuitive to use and features visible and accessible. But there's only so much you can add to, for example, a Finder or Pages window before you need to cram features into hidden places.

(3) Screen space is limited (especially on a laptop) and there's sometimes no good place on-screen to display useful information. For example, if you're watching a movie and want it to fill the entire screen, then obviously there can't be any controls for it on-screen because they would obstruct the movie. But that means that information like how far you are through the movie, how much time you have left will be hidden unless you wiggle around the mouse. The TB is one possible place where you can put at least some information (for example, a movie timeline can always be visible that way), though there are of course plenty other approaches to this problem aswell (using a second screen, remote apps for your iPhone or iPad, etc.).

(4) Some things or actions that you perform on your PC/Mac regularly are just more suited/intuitive to do on a Touch Screen. Moving around sliders or scrubbing back-/forward through songs or movies and the like are prime examples, but to give another example, which one do you prefer doing: hammering in the shortcut "Command" + "Z" forty times to swap through forty undo-steps, or just flicking a few times with your finger through one long undo-timeline where each undo-step is visualized? I know which one I'd prefer to do. (And yes, this undo-timeline on the Touch Bar is actually a thing on some photo editing apps, I just wish that it was more widespread and that Apple would adopt it aswell for Pages and the like)

There's probably more, but a vast majority of things that the TB does can be categorized into one of multiple of these points.

Again, this is what I think Apple views as the problems. I'm not saying that every user perceives them as problems during his everyday life, nor do I claim that the Touch Bar is a good solution to all of those, but it's certainly an attempt at addressing these issues. Just because these issues aren't always visible doesn't mean they aren't there – for example, when I'm editing a document or photo, I'm not sitting there thinking "Wow spamming a shortcut forty times to go back forty steps is so annoying", but when I saw the TB undo-feature, I thought "Well that's obviously better than the former".

I still have my issues with the touchbar as an ergonomic concept, and its efficiency compromises for the very type of users who are likely buying the more powerful line of laptop over a regular MacBook or iPad, but you're probably accurate in your assessment of what apple's goals were.
 
I'm not a fan of the Touch Bar, but I am even less a fan of what they charge for it. If they added two more USB-C ports to the nTB 13" and offered the 15" as-is but without the TB for hundreds less, that would have been a big help.

I know why they didn't, of course - if they did, nobody would have bought the TB models and there would have been no incentive for software companies to develop for it due to no installed user base.
 
Am very not happy about, but I completely agree with Dave2D here:

"underpowered and overpriced"

Someone to inform Dave2D about the European prices of Apple products.
I am sure he will cut his veins when he will hear them, and make a new video telling hate feelings about Apple and their cynical attitude to their European customers.
And we talk about Europe, not third world countries.
So 'overpriced' even more than a normal mind could imagine.
 
Am very not happy about, but I completely agree with Dave2D here:

Apple should heed that line: "It's more stuff that Apple's doing that feels really aggressive for no particular reason"

Apple's reputational capital is definitely getting dinged. Will they listen?

IMO, Apple sees their future is in subscriptions. Someone (Tim Cook?) sees how much better the stock performs if they smooth out revenue. That means they'll put everything on subscriptions... Music went there, Phones are going there, I'd assume Apple will want to go there with watches and laptops next. Apple will tell you they'll just be more affordable to have the new stuff, but if you run the numbers, it'll be a high price.
 
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Wonderful article about the touchbar, full of truth.
Apple removes really useful features, while providing questionable toys.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...well-implemented-but-serves-no-useful-purpose

That hit the nail on the head as to exactly how I feel about it. I am happy they cover the short cuts for designers where I felt the same thing as him - you could use the shortcuts, but it won’t be any faster than using normal keyboard/mouse/shortcuts.

Even less use for coders. It really will just get used for functions that don’t have natural shortcuts like volume control, brightness, mute etc.
 
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Somebody working for Apple personally predicted that there might be a silent update on July 9 for back to school. His colleague also mentioned that he "was sure" there would be MBP 2018 at WWDC but nothing happened. We will see. I am quite sick and tired of waiting and keep checking this thread.
 
Am very not happy about, but I completely agree with Dave2D here:

Dave is one of my favorite tech YouTubers, because he talks a lot about laptops, not just about phones and I have never felt like he is not reasonable and objective. He is right in that video. It's time to start using common sense. We were used to pay the premium for a Apple laptop because of their build quality (and features like great screens and magsafe) & macOS. Now we are paying much more than a premium for good but not great laptop. Other manufactures are building great computers in 2018, the hardware is up-to-date and the only advantage that Apple has in 2018 is macOS. I just like the ecosystem, because most of the time it just works.

I hope we will see more videos like this, because it seems like it could be the best way to wake up Apple.
 
Somebody working for Apple personally predicted that there might be a silent update on July 9 for back to school. His colleague also mentioned that he "was sure" there would be MBP 2018 at WWDC but nothing happened. We will see. I am quite sick and tired of waiting and keep checking this thread.

I'm not sure if it's related or not but the Best Buy's within 200 miles of my area have sold out of base 15" Pro's and has the higher end models with a in store date of July 13th (Friday). I wonder if Apple has a silent update going out along with a possible keyboard fix?
 
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I'm not sure if it's related or not but the Best Buy's within 200 miles of my area have sold out of base 15" Pro's and has the higher end models with a in store date of July 13th (Friday). I wonder if Apple has a silent update going out along with a possible keyboard fix?

A silent update this Tuesday would be too good to be true! :D
 
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I'm not sure if it's related or not but the Best Buy's within 200 miles of my area have sold out of base 15" Pro's and has the higher end models with a in store date of July 13th (Friday). I wonder if Apple has a silent update going out along with a possible keyboard fix?

Isn't 13th (Friday) a bad day considered by some people?

The guy mentioned that if I order something around this time, I might be surprised to receive a 2018 model when it arrives. We will see in 2-3 days.
 
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Hope that by next Wednesday, the long and stressful wait for MBP 2018 will end.
Don't give false me hope please :D

I mean it would be great but at this point I'm not really expecting anything before October anymore. If they do release before October after all then great but I've set my expectations low (or rather, late).
 
Isn't 13th (Friday) a bad day considered by some people?

The guy mentioned that if I order something around this time, I might be surprised to receive a 2018 model when it arrives. We will see in 2-3 days.
I don’t know the significance of the Friday part but I believe 13 is unlucky because Judas was Jesus’ 13th follower - tidbit of the day!

A press release Tuesday would be well received here, though I think that probably makes a low end 15” configuration less likely as they’d probably want to mention it in more detail?
[doublepost=1531081106][/doublepost]
Hope that by next Wednesday, the long and stressful wait for MBP 2018 will end.
Then we can start waiting for the 2019 whiskey lake machines :)
 
If Apple were to introduce a touch screen to Macs, the current macOS ui would not be optimized for it. Probably the only touch optimized part of the Finder is the Dock.
I'm not advocating that they should add touch screen, just pointing out, that TB is their response to touch screen machines. I agree, macOS needs to come a long way to work as a touch first platform. The teething/growing pains of windows 8 shows us that its not a simple process.
 
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I'm not advocating that they should add touch screen, just pointing out, that TB is their response to touch screen machines. I agree, macOS needs to come a long way to work as a touch first platform. The teething/growing pains of windows 8 shows us that its not a simple process.
To me the thing about touch on a windows laptop is that it isn’t about being the primary modus operandi - it is merely an additional way of interacting with the machine and the content it displays. Sometimes it’s easier to just use the keyboard and trackpad/mouse, while at other times you might want to manipulate the screen directly with your finger. To that end, it’s actually unnecessary to completely rework macOS for touch, as you just use the mouse when it makes sense.

If it’s a lay-flat hinge design with pen input that also opens up a whole new use case.

Every single time I see "Whiskey Lake" am tempted to tag @ WRONG. (And myself.)
Ah - more a fan of scotch whisky? ;)
 
I don’t know the significance of the Friday part but I believe 13 is unlucky because Judas was Jesus’ 13th follower - tidbit of the day!

A press release Tuesday would be well received here, though I think that probably makes a low end 15” configuration less likely as they’d probably want to mention it in more detail?
[doublepost=1531081106][/doublepost]
Then we can start waiting for the 2019 whiskey lake machines :)

Thanks. No more waiting for ABC thread for me. I have spent too much time waiting already.
 
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Thanks. No more waiting for ABC thread for me. I have spent too much time waiting already.
Ah, but what is life without waiting for a MBP? :D I trust we can at least expect you back for the hotly anticipated 2019-2020 ‘waiting for the 2020 ARM MacBook Pro’ thread - I hear it’s a white tie Jamboree ;)
 
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What so special about Tuesdays?

No idea

My issue is that its a solution in search of a problem. I think they made the change for change sake, and to try to change the narrative in why they don't offer a touch screen based laptop

I'm not advocating that they should add touch screen, just pointing out, that TB is their response to touch screen machines. I agree, macOS needs to come a long way to work as a touch first platform. The teething/growing pains of windows 8 shows us that its not a simple process.

Hmmm. I don't think its entirely a response to touch screen windows machine. I think its more an attempt to create a "unique feature". It was intended as a marketing hook - that must have shiny new thing that you could only get from Apple. Like the iPhone was in its time and the Watch more recently. Something new and cool you could only get from Apple.

The only problem for them was they misread howmuch people like real keys, and so the general market reaciton was ....meh...
 
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