Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[gobikerider]

I wanted to wait for 2018 MBP but my 2012 MBP are getting very slow. So I purchased a new MBP 13 2017 touch bar yesterday. I don’t know if it’s a right decision or not.

I’d return it, spend $100 on a ssd for the 2012 and hold out till the 2018 all current evidence pointing to a lovely upgrade. Cannonlake will be in the new MacBooks and Pros alike. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/256127-rumors-imply-intel-pushed-10nm-cannon-lake-back-2018

 

[andrewj44]

If "a workable screen" means matte anti-glare, then it's already perfectly clear. Apple hasn't produced such an option in many years.

It's not perfectly clear the future isn't upon us. The 2017 MBP reviews all give glowing praise to the Retina Screen on this model some saying Apples best yet. Others saying "crystal clear whites and no back bleed

If "a workable screen" means matte anti-glare, then it's already perfectly clear. Apple hasn't produced such an option in many years.

When I say a workable screen I am talking one where the white point is white to look at and not yellow or pink.

 

[unobtainium]

I’d return it, spend $100 on a ssd for the 2012 and hold out till the 2018 all current evidence pointing to a lovely upgrade. Cannonlake will be in the new MacBooks and Pros alike. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/256127-rumors-imply-intel-pushed-10nm-cannon-lake-back-2018

That link says Cannon Lake may be delayed to “late 2018” which means mobile chips probably in 2019. So any MBP upgrade in 2018 is likely to be Coffee Lake.

 

[Poki]

That link says Cannon Lake may be delayed to “late 2018” which means mobile chips probably in 2019. So any MBP upgrade in 2018 is likely to be Coffee Lake.

What we can tell from the already released 8th gen desktop and notebook chips, it will be a combination of Cannon Lake, Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake Refresh. Considering we'll most probably get more cores across the board for all MacBook Pro models, that's not a bad thing though.

 

[Dave245]

What we can tell from the already released 8th gen desktop and notebook chips, it will be a combination of Cannon Lake, Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake Refresh. Considering we'll most probably get more cores across the board for all MacBook Pro models, that's not a bad thing though.

It would be interesting to see a quad core on the 13" MacBook Pro, i'm due and upgrade and waiting until next years update, i'm hoping we see it at WWDC again but i won't hold my breath. More cores would be helpful for editing my videos in Final Cut Pro X.

 

[Poki]

It would be interesting to see a quad core on the 13" MacBook Pro, i'm due and upgrade and waiting until next years update, i'm hoping we see it at WWDC again but i won't hold my breath. More cores would be helpful for editing my videos in Final Cut Pro X.

Quad-Core 13" MBPs are pretty much a given. Notebooks using Intel's new 15W 8th gen quad-core CPUs already started shipping some months ago. It doesn't look like Intel will even produce any 15W / 28W Core chips with less than four cores, and Apple won't go for the ultra cheap Pentium / Celeron chips.

 

[Populus]

Quad-Core 13" MBPs are pretty much a given. Notebooks using Intel's new 15W 8th gen quad-core CPUs already started shipping some months ago. It doesn't look like Intel will even produce any 15W / 28W Core chips with less than four cores, and Apple won't go for the ultra cheap Pentium / Celeron chips.

Please, can you point me which 15W quad-core CPUs Intel is shipping? Because the only ones I recall have a much worse integrated GPU, and Apple won't ship a 13" MacBook Pro neither with a dedicated GPU, nor a under-performing GPU, so... we don't have much more alternatives right now at 14nm. It basically can't fit.

And waiting for the 10nm equals to waiting until mid 2019 (WWDC).

 

[powerslave12r]

I have missed out on this conversation but is there even a remote chance for Ryzen based Macbooks?

The Ryzen 2500U performance benchmarks look great, not sure about the battery life (which I think is similar to the 15W Intel quad cores, at least from these initial reviews.)

 

[Ries]

That link says Cannon Lake may be delayed to “late 2018” which means mobile chips probably in 2019. So any MBP upgrade in 2018 is likely to be Coffee Lake.

The link says:
Update: Intel has reached out to ET with the following comment: “We’ll be shipping our first 10-nanometer products near the end of the year beginning with a lower volume SKU followed by a volume ramp in the first half of 2018.”

 

[Poki]

Please, can you point me which 15W quad-core CPUs Intel is shipping? Because the only ones I recall have a much worse integrated GPU, and Apple won't ship a 13" MacBook Pro neither with a dedicated GPU, nor a under-performing GPU, so... we don't have much more alternatives right now at 14nm. It basically can't fit.

And waiting for the 10nm equals to waiting until mid 2019 (WWDC).

You seriously think Apple would prefer to keep using 7th gen dual core chips instead of opting for the quad-cores everyone else is going to use? The UHD620 is still more powerful than the HD615 in the MacBook, and the 15W chips are for the nTB MBP anyway, so I'd say that's a perfect match for this product. Intel hasn't yet shown 28W chips, but I'd guess they will offer them with GT3e iGPUs for the Touch Bar MBPs.

 

[Populus]

You seriously think Apple would prefer to keep using 7th gen dual core chips instead of opting for the quad-cores everyone else is going to use? The UHD620 is still more powerful than the HD615 in the MacBook, and the 15W chips are for the nTB MBP anyway, so I'd say that's a perfect match for this product. Intel hasn't yet shown 28W chips, but I'd guess they will offer them with GT3e iGPUs for the Touch Bar MBPs.

Well, knowing how does Apple release its products, clearly they won't refresh its MacBook pro lineup untill they have a proper CPU-GPU improvement that fits in their products. Maybe you don't remember the 15" haswell they were selling for long time, even when the Broadwell were being mounted on the 13" model.

If Apple don't see any substantial improvement, or even a decrease in integrated graphics, they won't use that chips. They rather wait until Ice Lake, or make their own System On Chip.

A pretty cool movement would be to fusion its proprietary GPU with an Intel CPU.
Because the Intel+AMD Graphics, is for now, only for high power machines.

 

[Poki]

Well, knowing how does Apple release its products, clearly they won't refresh its MacBook pro lineup untill they have a proper CPU-GPU improvement that fits in their products. Maybe you don't remember the 15" haswell they were selling for long time, even when the Broadwell were being mounted on the 13" model.

If Apple don't see any substantial improvement, or even a decrease in integrated graphics, they won't use that chips. They rather wait until Ice Lake, or make their own System On Chip.

A pretty cool movement would be to fusion its proprietary GPU with an Intel CPU.
Because the Intel+AMD Graphics, is for now, only for high power machines.

Broadwell was just a small improvement on Haswell, certainly not worth giving up GPU performance for that. But this time, it's different. To be honest, if I had to purchase a 13" notebook right now, I'd go with one of the quad-core options out there, even if I had to let macOS behind (and that even though macOS means a lot to me). Giving up such a huge amount of CPU power is not something I'm willing to do, let alone for the far higher €-prices Apple commands, and I bet many consumers out there think the same way. Apple can't wait two years for a refresh this time.

Also, we're talking about the entry level MBPs here. The model introduced to replace the MacBook Air. If someone wants more GPU power in a 13" form factor, fine, just spend the additional money on the Touch Bar model with its 28W chips. If you go for the entry level model, you still get far more CPU and a little bit more GPU power than what the MacBook offers, which will be plenty for a lot of people.

AMD did indeed release their Vega 8 and Vega 12 separately. But they do come without dedicated VRAM, which might render them slower than Intel's Iris Plus, depending on the use case. That said, using very low end AMD Vega GPUs with shared memory in a MacBook Pro would certainly be possible, I just can't see it happening for the entry level model we're talking about right now, and for the higher end model with GT3e iGPUs, the performance gain would be tiny to non existent.

 

[spacebro]

I don't think so.
I don't really know what plans Apple has... IF they have figured it out themselves. The situation they find themselves in is rather... strange.
More and more people move to mobile devices and don't need real computers anymore. Talking about kids and typical late 50s early 60s Moms and Dads. (Think of what Steve said concerning the trucks.)

At the same time... there are still A LOT of power users... who will NEVER be Apple to use mobile devices to get their jobs done. Period. I'm not talking about photographers or designers... these might get there eventually if I look at iPad Pro and Affinity's products. But other users with 10+ Applications running that have to constantly switch and move between them all. Work that is barely manageable on a notebook screen.

Now... how does Microsoft try to solve it? Surface Book and Pro. And honstly... I think they are GREAT machines. Until you really use them that is. You'd think you get the best of both worlds... but in reality the Surface Pro is an okayish tablet... and an okayish notebook. The Surface Book fares not much better... it just is a better notebook. As a tablet? Not so much.

So what should Apple do? I honestly don't know. It seems like it's true what they said... that you cannot really merge these two categories too well. The result just doesn't work on a high enough level. Keeping them separate forever though... is also not desirable. More SKUs. More dev costs on both hardware and software. Paired with people that want to DECLUTTER... and NOT carry 3-5 devices... but rather only 1 or 2.


My idea (and I am pretty sure that it is not a good one or even feasible) to have something similar to the Surface Book. Where the top part (aka the notebook display) is actually an iPad Pro with iOS, an A-class APU, and SHARED STORAGE !!!
The bottom part (with keyboard and trackpad etc.) runs macOS, has an x86 CPU/APU, main RAM, all the ports, a big battery, etc.. It does not have storage of it's own... but rather uses the storage in the iPad part.

If the iPad is docked... it acts as a normal MBP. If you take it out it acts as a normal iPad. The interesting part is the shared memory... so you only have ONE real file system... and preferably also only on Applications folder with both versions of an app (if there are versions for both, like now with an App for say... iPhone, iPad, and Apple TV). If the apps are still separate... they should be hidden/invisible when using the 'other' mode/OS.

I know... this sounds (from a technical perspective) pretty complicated... and I bet it is. But if there is one company that can figure this out... it is Apple. I still strongly believe this.

Because what are the other options?

a) Keep iOS and macOS completely separate on OS and Hardware level
b) keep either iOS or macOS and throw away the other... while either making iOS MORE powerful (I'm afraid Apple is considering this long term), or by making macOS touch friendly (which I am not sure is such a good idea either... but at least it's a USABLE OS)
c) Hybrid Device as outlined above...

That would be a great product if I could get a headless macbook pro that could pair with an ipad or any other screen. Much too radical for apple to ever consider.

 

[Populus]

@Poki Thank you for your reasoning, I guess that sooner or later we eventually will know who is right and who is wrong about what Apple is going to do with the 2018 MacBook Pro xD

And believe be: I wish I knew what Apple next move is, regarding the nTB MBP.

 

[gobikerider]

The link says:
Update: Intel has reached out to ET with the following comment: “We’ll be shipping our first 10-nanometer products near the end of the year beginning with a lower volume SKU followed by a volume ramp in the first half of 2018.”

At least someone read it

 

[kff]

Considering their record for planning for obsolescence it might not look very good. If you also consider that their current macbook pro lineup profits is exceeding expectations, isn't it most realistic to expect as little as possible? '

I work with video editing and buying a 16gb model seems insane, considering it already below recommended specs for pro video editing programs like avid, editing 4k.
Does anyone have any qualified guess on the chances for 32gb ram for next years model?

 

[Sterkenburg]

Does anyone have any qualified guess on the chances for 32gb ram for next years model?

As an educated guess based on what Apple publicly said on their stance on this issue: we'll get 32GB when they can get Intel chips that support low-power LPDDR4 RAM, which means late 2018 at the earliest. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[NBAasDOGG]

You seriously think Apple would prefer to keep using 7th gen dual core chips instead of opting for the quad-cores everyone else is going to use? The UHD620 is still more powerful than the HD615 in the MacBook, and the 15W chips are for the nTB MBP anyway, so I'd say that's a perfect match for this product. Intel hasn't yet shown 28W chips, but I'd guess they will offer them with GT3e iGPUs for the Touch Bar MBPs.

Dude, an Intel Iris 620 is significantly slower than 640 which is currently inside the nTB 2016. You really expect Apple to downgrade the iGPU in the new MacBooks?

Btw, the new Kaby Lake refresh with 4 cores will exceed 28W if shipped with iris 650! That’s the reason Intel is not even trying anything with 4 cores and GTe3 on 16-14 nm.

 

[Persian-apple]

Hi guys Im Buying a new rmbp Just wanted to know how the new touch bar rmbp Would perform in logic Using maschine studio Kontakt libraries etc Is 8gb ram enough to run it smoothly ill be using 20-30tracks at max and Im gonna be using 2-4plug ins on each track(average)
I already have The mid 2014 15inch rmbp and a 4.2ghz i7 5k imac 2017 so i have no idea how this would perform and im buying this cause i want something thats not eye-catching and portable So i can take it with myself to the university without Getting too much attention (cause no one brongs a laptop in my university but i make music so i can mix My projects in break times but since i dont bounce nothing to audio while mixing and had no experience With 13inch pros Ima need to ask this)
And forgot to say i can not orther custom-built Specs.
[doublepost=1512985285][/doublepost]Im really Sorry for punctuations grammatical errors etc i didnt have the time for these thanks in advance ❤️

 

[Poki]

Dude, an Intel Iris 620 is significantly slower than 640 which is currently inside the nTB 2016. You really expect Apple to downgrade the iGPU in the new MacBooks?

Btw, the new Kaby Lake refresh with 4 cores will exceed 28W if shipped with iris 650! That’s the reason Intel is not even trying anything with 4 cores and GTe3 on 16-14 nm.

Yes, the Iris Plus 640 is around 50% faster than the UHD620. And yes, I expect Apple to use this chip in the non Touch Bar MacBook Pro. The quad-core CPU will provide a far greater benefit to most consumers than the faster graphics, especially considering that the Iris is still not fast enough for gaming or most GPU accelerated apps, and considering that eGPUs are a real, officially supported thing now. Let's not forget that the more expensive Touch Bar model is there for people who want a little extra GPU performance on the go.

And why shouldn't Intel be able to produce 28W quad-core CPUs with GT3e iGPUs? They currently produce quad-core 15W chips with GT2 iGPUs as well as dual-core 15W CPUs with Iris Plus iGPUs. 28W is almost as much as both chips combined, or put differently, there's a whole 13W to draw for the GT3e iGPU, which is far more than it actually requires, and allows the CPU cores to be clocked higher while still providing the faster iGPU.

 

[The Mercurian]

Yeah I definitely won't be buying a HP as an alternative to MBP if the next MBP sucks: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42309371

 

[Persian-apple]

Hi guys Im Buying a new rmbp Just wanted to know how the new touch bar rmbp Would perform in logic Using maschine studio Kontakt libraries etc Is 8gb ram enough to run it smoothly ill be using 20-30tracks at max and Im gonna be using 2-4plug ins on each track(average)
I already have The mid 2014 15inch rmbp and a 4.2ghz i7 5k imac 2017 so i have no idea how this would perform and im buying this cause i want something thats not eye-catching and portable So i can take it with myself to the university without Getting too much attention (cause no one brongs a laptop in my university but i make music so i can mix My projects in break times but since i dont bounce nothing to audio while mixing and had no experience With 13inch pros Ima need to ask this)
And forgot to say i can not orther custom-built Specs.
[doublepost=1512985285][/doublepost]Im really Sorry for punctuations grammatical errors etc i didnt have the time for these thanks in advance ❤️

Guys Im Kinda in hurry would be glad if some one Has any advice on this I NEVER ran Intensive Logic Projects on a 13inc rmbp if someone could Tell me what the cpu performance is Like On the New touch bar version id be more than glad To hear it
And Please Write about your cpu recommendation since i can not get the custom built versions i want to know if there is any real difference between the Base model and the high end touch bar 13inch model

 

[Poki]

Guys Im Kinda in hurry would be glad if some one Has any advice on this I NEVER ran Intensive Logic Projects on a 13inc rmbp if someone could Tell me what the cpu performance is Like On the New touch bar version id be more than glad To hear it
And Please Write about your cpu recommendation since i can not get the custom built versions i want to know if there is any real difference between the Base model and the high end touch bar 13inch model

I'm not a Logic user, so I'm not sure of the RAM requirements - how well does it run on the Macs you have? You can look into activity monitor to see how much RAM Logic uses in your workflow.

Just be aware that the CPU in any 13" MBP is quite a bit slower than the one in both your iMac and your 2014 15" MBP.

 

[Trolle]

Hi guys Im Buying a new rmbp Just wanted to know how the new touch bar rmbp Would perform in logic Using maschine studio Kontakt libraries etc Is 8gb ram enough to run it smoothly ill be using 20-30tracks at max and Im gonna be using 2-4plug ins on each track(average)
I already have The mid 2014 15inch rmbp and a 4.2ghz i7 5k imac 2017 so i have no idea how this would perform and im buying this cause i want something thats not eye-catching and portable So i can take it with myself to the university without Getting too much attention (cause no one brongs a laptop in my university but i make music so i can mix My projects in break times but since i dont bounce nothing to audio while mixing and had no experience With 13inch pros Ima need to ask this)
And forgot to say i can not orther custom-built Specs.
[doublepost=1512985285][/doublepost]Im really Sorry for punctuations grammatical errors etc i didnt have the time for these thanks in advance ❤️

Just get the SSD model and you should be fine. I ran an Imac with 8 gb for a long time using kontakt instruments. The memory is not as important as the processor and hard drive speed for audio. I mean, I guess it wouldn't hurt to bump it up to 16 gigs though. But you will have a lot better time running audio tracks (and Kontakt) on the SSD.

 

[alias99]

Just get the SSD model and you should be fine. I ran an Imac with 8 gb for a long time using kontakt instruments. The memory is not as important as the processor and hard drive speed for audio. I mean, I guess it wouldn't hurt to bump it up to 16 gigs though. But you will have a lot better time running audio tracks (and Kontakt) on the SSD.

The SSD Model???

They all have one.....