Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[muratura]

Why not? Right now 15” has 80W combined TDP. And a compact package like that would be ideal for Apple. It saves some serious space, is more efficient in terms of interconnect and power utilization, and plays well with Apple’s cooling design. I’m sure Apple could source binned versions of that package, getting close to max performance out of 80Watt TDP.

Hmm, it seems you're right, mb.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/sSU6l43QV3NVApWS.huge
The current cooling solution has just one cooler pipe taking heat from both CPU and GPU(which are pretty close together, like 1" apart) and dissipating it to the sides to the fans. With a bit of redesign for the mobo they could reuse the chassis in the current models

 

[leman]

Only problem is that Intel used last-generation H-series CPUs in these packages, meaning we'd lose out on CPU performance. And since the cooling and mainboard of the current 15" MBP is already designed to accommodate a separate CPU and GPU package, doing so would not only increase performance, but also reduce the cost of an update to a minimum.

Thats the thing, I am not sure that going a traditional CPU + GPU will increase performance (except maybe on the CPU front in certain scenarios, if a 6-core CPU is used). If I understand it correctly, the crucial point of this tech is that it is essentially a combined package that shares a total design power. Intel is mentioning dynamic power balancing. If I read this correctly, the power can be allocated to either of the components on demand. For instance, your are doing some heavy-duty numeric computation on the CPU, while the GPU is not really being used? Then the CPU gets all the 80-100W available, allowing it to clock higher and maintain those clocks longer. Or, playing a game thats mostly single-threaded? Then the CPU would take 20-30W, leaving 70-80W to the GPU for pushing those frames. I don't think that a traditional model can be this flexible. In fact, I would guess that the traditional separate CPU/GPU won't be able to utilise the GPU to its fullest like this. There is also this slide that shows a 45W config outperforming the 62.5W config in games if the dynamic power balancing is turned on.

All in all, I am very curious about how it performs on practice. In fact, I'd love to get my hands on one of these packages, just to test it out in various usage scenarios. There might be a lot of potential here.

Ideally, I'd prefer 6-core Coffee Lake+Vega on a single package of course, but if mobile Coffee Lake is delayed, these G packages would be a sweet upgrade for the 15" MBP. And who knows, with dynamic tuning they might be even a match for a "static" 45W 6-core CPU in processor-intensive parallel workflows. Very curious to which way Apple will swing...

 

[sputnikBA]

If Apple wants them, they will either get better binned ones from Intel than standard, or they can get custom ones and alter the clocks slightly like the iMac Pros.

Additionally, a combined unit like the hybrid chip offers can also make for a smaller motherboard overall and space that could be used for more battery cells.

 

[fokmik]

so, what choices Apple can make? To go with intel cpu+amd iGpu? or intel cpu and dGpu vega mobile? but there is no mobile vega gpu on the market, and we are in mid January almost...so a March update...could not happen

 

[leman]

so, what choices Apple can make? To go with intel cpu+amd iGpu? or intel cpu and dGpu vega mobile? but there is no mobile vega gpu on the market, and we are in mid January almost...so a March update...could not happen

Either take one of these G-packages Intel has released today, or wait until Coffee Lake (6-core) + mobile Vega (also kind of announced today) is available. And after all, Intel's announcement means that AMD already has very flexible Vega configurations (its what Vega is good at to begin with, its designed to be insanely flexible).

Its also very difficult to guess the timelines, with all the secrecy and behind-the-scenes agreements. In 2016, Apple got more or less exclusive access to mobile Polaris for example...

 

[fokmik]

So it is possible that Apple already testes these chips for months now...and we can get the updated macs in March or June ?!

 

[leman]

So it is possible that Apple already testes these chips for months now...and we can get the updated macs in March or June ?!

There are other companies announcing laptops with mobile Vega available February, so I'm sure that Apple has had access to the hardware for quite some time.

 

[fokmik]

can you tell me what laptops with vega? or where i can search for them? i guess a little off topic its ok ?!

 

[The Mercurian]

Meh. No interest in these they sound expensive. Make with the hex-core chips already!

 

[fokmik]

i see that Core G has around 20% better performance than a nvidia 1050. I wonder how is current Amd 560 from 15" MBP compare to the nvidia 1050 ?!

 

[Dave245]

Meh. No interest in these they sound expensive. Make with the hex-core chips already!

Apple MacBook Pro’s are expensive, but I never get why people complain about the price when they are aimed at the professional market anyway.

 

[The Mercurian]

Apple MacBook Pro’s are expensive, but I never get why people complain about the price when they are aimed at the professional market anyway.

Because I pay for it myself

 

[richinaus]

Apple MacBook Pro’s are expensive, but I never get why people complain about the price when they are aimed at the professional market anyway.

Exactly. If the tool gets the jobs done in an efficient and effective way then the price is worth it.
I personally don't see them as expensive at all and are actually less than a coffee a day [after deductions]. $3k over 3 years working 46 weeks a year [$3000 / 690 days = $4.3 per day, super cheap].

I can understand though if the tech is not used professionally you certainly wont get these levels of payback and use cost. My computers are on over 10 hours a day at least 5 days a week, making $.

It's actually the apps subscriptions that cost me more over this period !

Anyway I am looking forward to seeing what comes out this year as it is sounding very positive. If we can get hex core and a great Vega dGPU in the 15" it will be perfect otherwise I would prefer this Intel / AMD chip given it competes with the 1060. I was very tempted to get the 15" Surfacebook 2 up until this announcement........

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple MacBook Pro’s are expensive, but I never get why people complain about the price when they are aimed at the professional market anyway.

Because if you want a 15" laptop (or anything above a 13") from Apple the pro is literally your only option, whether you need the power or not?

 

[Dave245]

Because I pay for it myself

So do a lot of professional’s, i know I pay for my MacBook Pro’s and iMac’s myself but since I use them in a professional capacity they pay for themselves over time with money I earn from writing and editing footage in Final Cut Pro X.

 

[leman]

i see that Core G has around 20% better performance than a nvidia 1050. I wonder how is current Amd 560 from 15" MBP compare to the nvidia 1050 ?!

Around 20% slower, but mostly because Apple chose to use lower clocked VRAM (I guess for stability considerations, workstation GPU VRAM is usually clocked lower than gaming GPU VRAM).

 

[The Mercurian]

So do a lot of professional’s, i know I pay for my MacBook Pro’s and iMac’s myself but since I use them in a professional capacity they pay for themselves over time with money I earn from writing and editing footage in Final Cut Pro X.

Once again I feel the need to point out that not all professionals work in TV & film. I'm in research. I don't get paid anything extra for having a faster computer and I cannot put my computer on any grant, but I do get research results quicker. So price matters to me.

 

[Dave245]

Once again I feel the need to point out that not all professionals work in TV & film. I'm in research. I don't get paid anything extra for having a faster computer and I cannot put my computer on any grant, but I do get research results quicker. So price matters to me.

That is true, professionals come in all types of work and yes I do think for some the MacBook Pros’s are Expensive but in that case it then depends if it’s worth it for said professional to buy one.

 

[fastasleep]

With all the speculation about the 2018 models, I'm actually surprised not to see more people talking about this. There were the Foxconn insider leaks some months back which I believe were even verified to be legitimate to a certain extend, and a lot of their predictions regarding the 2017 iPhones, Homepod etc. came true. They also predicted "dynamic keyboards" for the 2018 MacBooks, i.e. having some screen functionality built directly into the individual keys of the keyboard.

If true, this seems like a rather significant change from a usability point of view and would also put the Touch Bar more into perspective as a feature, with it not being a one-time "gimmick" (as many people see it) but instead the first step towards a more interactive, capable and dynamic keyboard panel.

Now these leaks are of course to be taken with a grain of salt, and it's possible that 2018 is still too early for such a technology to debut. But on the other hand, several other supposed leaks of this Foxconn insider came true so I wouldn't consider it too unlikely to happen, and if true, it would elevate the 2018 MacBook Pros from "just" being a spec-upgrade like the 2017 ones to a decent improvement with a focus on new usability elements.

With the direction Apple is taking with the Touch Bar, it certainly seems like a feature that we can expect from Apple. iPhones, iPads etc. already have dynamic keyboards, and while we're far from the stage to drop physical buttons on the MacBook keyboards, bringing dynamic keycaps onto the keyboard while maintaining the haptic phyiscal buttons seems like the logical next step Apple would take into this direction. Think of how much of a benefit dynamic keycaps would be for multilingual users, or for people learning a new language. Think of people who are looking to type a special character that you can only type by "Command + Alt + Shift + ..." or something, and how much faster such a letter could be found on the keyboard if the keycap descriptions would change when holding down these buttons. Think of the capabilities for third party apps, games, etc.

Based on numerous patents as well, I fully believe the Touch Bar, larger trackpad, haptic engine, and flattening of the keys (and individual OLED keycaps) are paving the way towards a fully virtual touch surface across the whole thing. I think it'll come in stages, the first of which are the Touch Bar as a bit of an experiment there, the larger trackpad easing us into the entire bottom area becoming more of a larger dynamic control area beyond just a trackpad. I think we're a ways off from a fully virtual keyboard, but they're pulling the string. There are various patents for types of physical feedback for virtual keys (like air, raised virtual keys, etc) from way back as well.

Additionally, it'd be interesting to see where a Face ID sensor assembly potentially might open the path to hand/finger gestures, which has also been shown in various Apple patents.

 

[gobikerider]

Only problem is that Intel used last-generation H-series CPUs in these packages, meaning we'd lose out on CPU performance. And since the cooling and mainboard of the current 15" MBP is already designed to accommodate a separate CPU and GPU package, doing so would not only increase performance, but also reduce the cost of an update to a minimum.

Intel's CES press conference will be soon, then we'll see what they have to offer. If there are new six-core 45W H-series CPUs, I can't see Apple using these G-series chips in anything but the low end 15" model.

Exactly what I’m thinking as the new G series chips don’t fit into the lineup anywhere else. I hope they do that or just a slightly lower cost 15 inch model as I love the larger display but I have no need for the extreme performance it offers. WWDC 2018 can’t come soon enough.

 

[littlepud]

I'm thinking maybe there will be 2 different 15-inch models.

• Low end configuration with the 65W GL SKU (4 cores, 20 CU)
• High end configuration with 6-core Coffee Lake and discrete RX Vega mobile

 

[Mr. Dee]

I assume with these Intel/Vega chips not ready until March, we probably won't be seeing the new MacBook Pro's until WWDC or fall 2018. Bummer.

 

[Poki]

I assume with these Intel/Vega chips not ready until March, we probably won't be seeing the new MacBook Pro's until WWDC or fall 2018. Bummer.

Who says they‘re not ready? Intel officially said that first notebooks using these chips will be abailalble in spring 2018, with some vendors indicating a February release. No reason for any delay on Apples part.

 

[gobikerider]

Who says they‘re not ready? Intel officially said that first notebooks using these chips will be abailalble in spring 2018, with some vendors indicating a February release. No reason for any delay on Apples part.

Ehh customer will get peeved if Apple updated the lineup in less then a year again. Apple probably wants to space to back to a year to look normalize the schedule again. Idk though if they released sooner I’d be happy expect we still haven’t seen new H series proccesors.

 

[richinaus]

Once again I feel the need to point out that not all professionals work in TV & film. I'm in research. I don't get paid anything extra for having a faster computer and I cannot put my computer on any grant, but I do get research results quicker. So price matters to me.

If you get research results quicker does this not mean you can research more and get paid more? If not why bother upgrading. Its like being paid a salary and as long as you meet the target all is well. I work on invoicing my time and as such less time spent = more time for other projects meaning more $. So a better machine means working faster, less frustration and also ability to improve on the result [renders / images etc].