Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[ugru]

So they are basically waiting for the right iGPU to be available...maybe we will see the 12" MacBook and 13" MBP updated at the same time around October.

Don't think so. I think Apple is killing the nTB MBP altogheter.

First of all to push the TB, because given the lukewarm reaction to the TB, if they had both nTB and TB versions out no one (or a lot less people) would have bought the TB one. The same reason why there is not a nTB 15" MBP version.

Second, they want to introduce a new MBA, and in 2016 they introduced the nTB like the "ideal MBA replacement".

 

[The Mercurian]

Don't think so. I think Apple is killing the nTB MBP altogheter.

First of all to push the TB, because given the lukewarm reaction to the TB, if they had both nTB and TB versions out no one (or a lot less people) would have bought the TB one. The same reason why there is not a nTB 15" MBP version.

Second, they want to introduce a new MBA, and in 2016 they introduced the nTB like the "ideal MBA replacement".

They place a premium price on the TB though, and these new models are expected to be affordable. Is a TB compatible with affordable ?

 

[ugru]

They killed the nTB MBP because MBP = TB = Premium.

IMHO the new MB and/or MBA will not have the TB. They will have a lower price point, at least for the base version....

 

[maflynn]

They killed the nTB MBP because MBP = TB = Premium.

Yup, the writing was on the wall, before this refresh. The nTB was a stop gap measure to help the transition but clearly apple wants people to embrace the touch bar.

 

[afir93]

They killed the nTB MBP because MBP = TB = Premium.

IMHO the new MB and/or MBA will not have the TB. They will have a lower price point, at least for the base version....

Pretty much what I expect. I think the current nTB MBP will merge into the new rumored low-end MacBook line (under which branding is still up to debate). The Touch Bar or Touch ID are unlikely for these models to happen as the objective here is to basically get them as cheap as possible. For example they have also been rumored to use the old Kabylake chips instead of Coffeelake or the like.

It's gonna be interesting if the T2 chip is implemented across the product lineup or if it stays exclusive to the Pro-models aswell.

 

[Ma2k5]

So they are basically waiting for the right iGPU to be available...maybe we will see the 12" MacBook and 13" MBP updated at the same time around October.

Yep, although I can't seem to see any coffeelake 15w CPU's with a similar iGPU, which might make that problematic.
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Yup, the writing was on the wall, before this refresh. The nTB was a stop gap measure to help the transition but clearly apple wants people to embrace the touch bar.

I think Apple are confused as to what direction they want to go. It's been two years and we don't have the touch bar being extended to their other Mac product lines by means of a touch-bar enabled external keyboard. Unless of course it is just an R&D issue as to why it is taking them so long?

 

[maflynn]

It's been two years and we don't have the touch bar being extended to their other Mac product lines

That makes it even harder for developers to embrace the TB. Why spend the time, effort and money to introduce a feature that will only benefit a small subset of Mac users. Why not dedicate the resources to improve the experience for all users.

 

[fokmik]

When can we expect the next MBP in 2019 or 2020? and what intel chips should Apple put ?
10nM maybe? there any chance?

 

[maflynn]

and what intel chips should Apple put ?

I'm still of the mindset we'll see ARM based MBPs in 2020. If Apple chooses not to redesign the case in 2019, that will (at least in my mind), add fuel to that fire.

 

[cool11]

Satechi Aluminum Type-C Multimedia Adapter with 4K HDMI, mini DisplayPort, USB-C PD, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 3.0, Micro/SD Card
View attachment 775602

Do you have it? Experiences with this item?

 

[Sterkenburg]

Do you have it? Experiences with this item?

It's a neat dongle in that it provides basically all the missing ports in one small device, fits in a pocket and the design and color perfectly match the MBP. The downsides are the same as most USB-C, non-Thunderbolt adapters:

- Can't do more than 30Hz when connected to a 4K display (better to buy a separate cable if you need that)
- Power output is limited and it gets really hot when the charger is plugged (better to charge from a separate port)

 

[maflynn]

Do you have it? Experiences with this item?

Yes, I own it. Its nice. I do think it gets a bit hot to the touch driving my monitor, I'm not sure if other dongles have this issue but it works.

 

[Ma2k5]

That makes it even harder for developers to embrace the TB. Why spend the time, effort and money to introduce a feature that will only benefit a small subset of Mac users. Why not dedicate the resources to improve the experience for all users.

Exactly my thoughts. It will further alienate developers if the 12” Macabook and the cheaper end 13” don’t embrace it.

 

[shoebobs]

I'm still of the mindset we'll see ARM based MBPs in 2020. If Apple chooses not to redesign the case in 2019, that will (at least in my mind), add fuel to that fire.

I think 2020 is still too early for the Pro line for ARM. Macbook/Mini/Any Air replacement - sure, ARM refresh is a possibility in my mind. But once intel finally figures out their 10nm process (which should be around 2020 at the latest hopefully), the performance gains are going to be huge. I'd be very surprised if Apple could match it with an ARM based MBP in the same timeframe, and if Pros see a massive performance difference, that will be an easy way to lose sales.

 

[Vonjover]

Any thoughts on this for current generation? (Im not sure this is the rigt thread, but we are looking forward to a better 2019 right?)

 

[maflynn]

Any thoughts on this for current generation? (Im not sure this is the rigt thread, but we are looking forward to a better 2019 right?)

I stopped watching 71 seconds into the video. Of course you shouldn't buy Macs right now (other then the MBP) because none of them have been updated. The throttling issue on the MBP he refereed too is a non-issue with the patch.

I do understand that the 2018 MBPs have issues, I get it, and people have been crowing about it, like the sky is falling. I'm not refuting that, but those issues, whether its speaker crackle or KPs because of the T2, it's not affecting everyone and Apple will resolve this. I'm perfectly happy with my 2018 machine

 

[Falhófnir]

I think 2020 is still too early for the Pro line for ARM. Macbook/Mini/Any Air replacement - sure, ARM refresh is a possibility in my mind. But once intel finally figures out their 10nm process (which should be around 2020 at the latest hopefully), the performance gains are going to be huge. I'd be very surprised if Apple could match it with an ARM based MBP in the same timeframe, and if Pros see a massive performance difference, that will be an easy way to lose sales.

If Apple are starting to build 7nm chips Intel’s 10nm would be a catch-up move, not a leapfrog - particularly if they have to scale down their ambitions to get chips to market... I have a lot of respect for Intel as a company which produces excellent products, but their current issues shouldn’t be understated. Their lead in single core performance is evaporating and they are pretty unlikely to get it back in any meaningful way unless they surprise everyone by unveiling 7nm chips instead of 10nm ones in the year ahead. As Intel’s business model is based on taking the cream off the market, and that’s dependent on being superlative in single core performance, this is certainly no minor roadbump...

 

[dgdosen]

They killed the nTB MBP because MBP = TB = Premium.

IMHO the new MB and/or MBA will not have the TB. They will have a lower price point, at least for the base version....

I know it's all speculation at this point, but if using a 'touch bar' is required for me to be a pro user, then I'm not a pro user.

If that's the tact Apple wants to take, so be it. We'll see in September. IMO, Apple has made some pretty questionable decisions of late. Why stop now?

 

[ugru]

Why stop now?

They will not....

They will keep making questionable moves...like keep doing laptops thinner and thinner at the expense of performances....

 

[cool11]

A possibly silly question,
but what someone would expect, in basic terms, if ever Apple releases a mbp with such an Arm cpu?
First of all, application compatibility?
And then, performance, power consumption, comparison with other mobile workstations, would it be professional line, etc

 

[afir93]

A possibly silly question,
but what someone would expect, in basic terms, if ever Apple releases a mbp with such an Arm cpu?
First of all, application compatibility?
And then, performance, power consumption, comparison with other mobile workstations, would it be professional line, etc

It's not a silly question, the thing is though that we don't really know any of that for certain and can only make some educated guesses.

Adapting applications to the new processor architecture would most certainly require developers to adapt or rewrite their apps in some way and to some extend, similarly to how it was with the switch from PowerPC to Intel back in the days (though that doesn't mean developers have to start from scratch – it's very possible that it ends up being a relatively simple and straightforward process since Apple had many years this time to plan ahead). That doesn't mean however that old applications won't run anymore; there will most certainly be a Rosetta-like emulation environment from Apple for the first couple of years that will allow for backwards-compatibility.

Now some people like to talk about how this new architecture won't allow for Bootcamp anymore, but once again, this is based on assumptions. It's very possible that Apple manages to keep around the ease of running Windows on a Mac via Bootcamp in some form or another, whether it's by some clever emulation technology or by running some ARM-specific versions of Windows made in collaboration with Microsoft. It's not certain, but it's also questionable to conclude that Bootcamp will be a thing of the past like some people do when there are certainly ways Apple could make this work.

Regarding performance and efficiency – this is where I'd expect the new chips to shine, and this is IMO the most likely reason Apple decided to jump ship from Intel in the first place. The A10X and A11 (which are now about a year old, by the way) already rival the performance of many low-end or entry-level notebooks and PCs, and they are designed around a much lower TDP and therefore much better thermals, power efficiency and much less internal space than most of Intel's current chips. And in one month we'll see Apple's next iteration of the A-series that will probably make another leap forward and be 7nm whereas Intel doesn't even manage to hit 10nm architecture since years and most likely won't manage to do that before the end of 2019.

Given all that, I'm pretty excited to see what Apple's engineering team can do when they have a much higher TDP and more internal space to work with. I'd wager performance and efficiency (and therefore battery life) will be among the main draw-ins of such a switch.

 

[Glockworkorange]

They place a premium price on the TB though, and these new models are expected to be affordable. Is a TB compatible with affordable ?

The non-TB was sold as the replacement for MacBook Air customers. I think they will nix it and offer a true MacBook Air replacement.

 

[cool11]

It sounds so strange to me , that Apple seems to have such a good technology like ARM in their hands, and they even have advancements over intel cpu's like 7nm. Are they so good in cpu market race?

 

[maflynn]

ARM in their hands, and they even have advancements over intel cpu's like 7nm. Are they so good in cpu market race?

I'm no CPU expert, but I think one reason why ARM based CPUs have some advancements over X86, is because the X86 platform is a lot more complicated, i.e., RISC vs CISC. Intel has some architecture that I assume could be considered legacy, i.e., needs more circuitry to remain compatible then ARM because Intel is older (I'm assuming this, I could be completely wrong).

I will say that I'm baffled as to why Intel is struggling so mightily, there's more to the story on why they're having issues, but others are not.

 

[Ma2k5]

I'm no CPU expert, but I think one reason why ARM based CPUs have some advancements over X86, is because the X86 platform is a lot more complicated, i.e., RISC vs CISC. Intel has some architecture that I assume could be considered legacy, i.e., needs more circuitry to remain compatible then ARM because Intel is older (I'm assuming this, I could be completely wrong).

I will say that I'm baffled as to why Intel is struggling so mightily, there's more to the story on why they're having issues, but others are not.

It should be noted that while intel where originally CISC processors, they are very much hybrid processors now. Sometimes I think it is easy to think that there might be some huge gains by moving to an ARM architecture, but truthfully that isn't likely to be the case, rather we are likely to end up with less power and a host of compatibility issues.

Also, when it comes to die shrinks to 10nm/7nm, it isn't possible to really correlatate Intel vs AMD vs Other's roads to this, there is more to it to just these mere numbers. In essence, it could be argued that Intel are trying to overachieve in their die shrinks and the other offerings are actually far more easier to bring to market (plus, that does not mean better).