Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[ascender]

Having settled on a new MBA, I'd jump at a redesigned MBP if...

• Touch Bar is an option. I got used to it but never loved it. They could add haptics which would improve things, but I've much preferred being back on physical function keys.
• A robust, reliable keyboard. Can they genuinely not fit the Magic Keyboard mechanism in there?
• FaceID. It works brilliantly on the new iPads and would be such a great system to have on their laptop. But would they have to make the lid thicker to house the camera array?
• A new design in line with the iPad Pro.
• Better thermal management. But again, that would probably need a rethink about the thickness of the machine. I'm wondering though if they move to a different design like the iPad Pro, they can make it a bit bulkier and say its a design decision so not lose face on their "thinner is everything" stance?

They've addressed some of my other concerns over the last couple of years - available memory for example. The new Air does also have some nods to being more repairable than the Pro line so maybe that signals a change in thinking?

 

[PeterJP]

That’s funny.
I’ve ordered X1 Extreme. Ordered Samsung 970 EVO 1tb.

X1E arrived, evo arrived. Unscrew 6-7 screws, pop in EVO, put screws back in. 2mins top.

Now I have 1tb for windows 10, and 1tb for Linux.

Aha, the X1E has two M.2 slots. Nice one. I'd be surprised if you can pull it off in 2 minutes, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

What I don't believe, though, is that those two minutes include installation of Linux and making dual boot work. You're making the typical non-pro mistake of not including major crucial parts in your estimate. So let me round up those two minutes to at leart two hours for you. Don't forget the time to download a boot DVD. Or the time to download packages and updates, if you have an older one ready.

And if any of the drives die on me, it will take me 2mins to replace that drive.

Yes, but most likely, at least one of your OSses won't work anymore. Pop in new drive, reinstall OS, then restore backup using what? Rsync?

If your drive dies, what then? If just one key fails, what then?

If the drive fails: have it fixed while working on a backup machine, or get a new one and restore from a TimeMachine backup. It's quite user friendly: it just works. You should try it one day.
If just one key fails: have it fixed while working on a backup machine. Remember, we're talking pro here. Hours spent on fixing a machine are hours spent making no money.

So no, please, no... Pros don’t want everything glued in. Most of us anyway.

I never said I wanted everything glued in. You gave me the choice between large-but-user-maintainable or small. If that's the only choice, then small please. But if there's more choice, then small and user maintainable, please. Of course, the X1E's user accessible SSD slots are far better than soldered-in SSDs.

 

[Think creative]

Highly unlikely IMHO. The only Ice Lake chips supposed to be available this year are the low-power U chips, not the higher power 28W and 45W chips that Apple uses for most of the MBP line.





You won't get those things before 2020 (at the very earliest), and by the time they arrive they will almost certainly be in a new chassis.



A 7nm GPU would be nice, but it's not clear how a mobile Navi will perform relative to the current mobile Vega GPUs. It's possible that mobile Navi will be higher performance replacements for the 450/460, but still slot in below the Vega 20 mobile GPU.

On desktop, Navi is supposed to be a low-end GPU that is primarily aimed at replacing Polaris GPUs in the marketplace (i.e. the Radeon 460/470/480/580 line of GPUs). Best case, Navi replaces or obsoletes Vega 56 by getting close to Vega 56 performance at a lower cost. I expect Vega 64 to remain AMD's highest-end desktop GPU until the GPU after Navi releases. There's a lot less information on AMD's plans for mobile Navi, so it's very much still up in the air.



What makes you think they will do this? Do you think they would accelerate their refresh plans because of some of the issues with the 2016-2018 line?



I'd love a resolution bump. OLED would be nice, too, if the quality and longevity of the panels is up to "Apple" standards.

Related, I wonder if Apple's "Pro" display (expected this year) will be OLED?

realistically, I don't think OLED is coming this year. I think a redesign might be pushed because the keyboard is a love it/hate it situation. Between that and the thinner display cable, it makes sense they pushed up the redesign so they can change the conversation. They want to change the conversation.

 

[Dave245]

realistically, I don't think OLED is coming this year. I think a redesign might be pushed because the keyboard is a love it/hate it situation. Between that and the thinner display cable, it makes sense they pushed up the redesign so they can change the conversation. They want to change the conversation.

I don’t see them introducing a redesign until next year (2020) I think they will continue to improve and fix the keyboard, this year will probably be just a spec bump with a move to 10nm processors.

 

[Think creative]

I don’t see them introducing a redesign until next year (2020) I think they will continue to improve and fix the keyboard, this year will probably be just a spec bump with a move to 10nm processors.

I think that's the safer bet. Again, my main computer is an iMac 5k. (2015). I'll upgrade that in 2021 at this rate, since it still works great. I'm grabbing a 2015 MacBook pro for the two or three weeks a year I'm away from my office. with updates that should last me till 2021 (I need it only for some light photoshop work and writing), when hopefully MacBook pro's have been fixed, keyboard wise, or I can (shudder) move my portable computer needs to a thinkpad. (Love that keyboard and the build quality on the x1 seems great, but I can't stand windows).

 

[awesomedeluxe]

A 7nm GPU would be nice, but it's not clear how a mobile Navi will perform relative to the current mobile Vega GPUs. It's possible that mobile Navi will be higher performance replacements for the 450/460, but still slot in below the Vega 20 mobile GPU.

On desktop, Navi is supposed to be a low-end GPU that is primarily aimed at replacing Polaris GPUs in the marketplace (i.e. the Radeon 460/470/480/580 line of GPUs). Best case, Navi replaces or obsoletes Vega 56 by getting close to Vega 56 performance at a lower cost. I expect Vega 64 to remain AMD's highest-end desktop GPU until the GPU after Navi releases. There's a lot less information on AMD's plans for mobile Navi, so it's very much still up in the air.

AMD's business, especially on the GPU side, is heavily driven by custom design orders right now. The midrange desktop part you mentioned is almost assuredly the PS5 GPU being launched ahead of its appearance as part of a custom APU in Sony (and Microsoft's) next console.

It's possible Navi will be so successful that AMD will rush to scale it up and steal the performance crown from nVidia. But I doubt it. Its next destination will probably depend on whether Apple--AMD's biggest customer outside Sony and MS--asks Team Red to make them something. I don't think Apple has made that call yet, since the performance of AMD's first post-GCN architecture is still a mystery. But I also don't think Navi will be competitive enough with Turing that general-use PC parts would be more profitable than just making what Apple wants.

In other words, the order right now isn't AMD makes plans for Navi mobile and then Apple places an order for parts. It's Apple tells AMD they want a mobile with exact specifications, and Navi mobile suddenly becomes a thing that exists.

 

[Dave245]

I think that's the safer bet. Again, my main computer is an iMac 5k. (2015). I'll upgrade that in 2021 at this rate, since it still works great. I'm grabbing a 2015 MacBook pro for the two or three weeks a year I'm away from my office. with updates that should last me till 2021 (I need it only for some light photoshop work and writing), when hopefully MacBook pro's have been fixed, keyboard wise, or I can (shudder) move my portable computer needs to a thinkpad. (Love that keyboard and the build quality on the x1 seems great, but I can't stand windows).

Although last year (2018) Apple did add a bit more than just a spec bump, True Tone for the display and Touch Bar, better speakers and gen 3 keyboard. It’s possible I’m wrong and they add more again this year, maybe another better improved keyboard? Gen 4 anybody.

I do think that because they are working on the new Mac Pro for later this year along with a Pro display, that there probably won’t be any other Big Mac announcements this year. 2020 will probably be the big redesign for the MacBook Pro.

At the moment I’m considering a MacBook Pro or new MacBook Air for my Pixelmator Pro photo editing, writing, occasional gaming and video editing in iMovie. I’m in no hurry so I can see what happens with the 2019 versions, tho I do have money for a new iMac that I hope they update sometime soon.

 

[kebn]

Although last year (2018) Apple did add a bit more than just a spec bump, True Tone for the display and Touch Bar, better speakers and gen 3 keyboard. It’s possible I’m wrong and they add more again this year, maybe another better improved keyboard? Gen 4 anybody.

I do think that because they are working on the new Mac Pro for later this year along with a Pro display, that there probably won’t be any other Big Mac announcements this year. 2020 will probably be the big redesign for the MacBook Pro.

At the moment I’m considering a MacBook Pro or new MacBook Air for my Pixelmator Pro photo editing, writing, occasional gaming and video editing in iMovie. I’m in no hurry so I can see what happens with the 2019 versions, tho I do have money for a new iMac that I hope they update sometime soon.

I'm in the same boat, your post got me thinking about what I would really want in 2019:

IMO, the top priority for 2019 should be to fix the negative physical build quality/hardware issues that have been plaguing the current 2016-2018 models, stuff that could really affect longevity. I see these as the biggest detractors for me in terms of purchasing a new MBP.

- Keyboards need another generation of refinement
- Display cable flex/tearing
- T2 kernel panic errors
- Audio popping issues

The next tier of priorities should be to update components of the Macbook that I personally think are "nice to have" features, and are hopefully easily implemented without a chassis design change.

- Larger screen, smaller bezel
- 7mm CPU/GPU chips
- FaceID
- Touch-bar less options

I dont think anything here is unreasonable (like OLED touchscreens or 15-hr battery life or something), and hopefully can be done with just some reasonable component refreshes from Apple's suppliers.

 

[R.P.G]

Aha, the X1E has two M.2 slots. Nice one. I'd be surprised if you can pull it off in 2 minutes, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
.

You can unscrew and screw new drive in 2 mins. ( if this is not your first time). It is very very straightforward.

X1E is small and user maintainable. Not razor thin but relatively portable.

 

[c0ppo]

But not everyone is as tech savvy, I understand what you’re saying BUT for some of us it’s why we pay Apple for the extra Ram, they fit it and any issues it gets taken back to them to fix or if it’s old we buy a new one.

Unscrewing a few screws isn't being tech savvy. And yes, it's that easy

Aha, the X1E has two M.2 slots. Nice one. I'd be surprised if you can pull it off in 2 minutes, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

What I don't believe, though, is that those two minutes include installation of Linux and making dual boot work. You're making the typical non-pro mistake of not including major crucial parts in your estimate. So let me round up those two minutes to at leart two hours for you. Don't forget the time to download a boot DVD. Or the time to download packages and updates, if you have an older one ready.

Unscrew six or seven (forgot the exact number, you can find youtube videos easily) regular philips screws. There is a socket for nvme SSD. Place the SSD inside (2-3 seconds), screw it in, screw back the bottom (those 6-7 screws).

It's easy as it gets. No components need to be removed, nothing has to tinkered with. Just remove the bottom plate and put the SSD in. Youtube is full of those videos, even my wife managed to replace her SSD by watching youtube video. And then she was in shock because windows wouldn't boot. She didn't realise she had to install windows after removing the SSD from X1C. That's how tech savvy she is.

So really, not something to be afraid of.

Of course Linux (Pop_OS in this case) installation doesn't take just two minutes. But the download file is 2GB. How long it takes to download it depends on your connection. It took about 5-6mins for me.

And installation didn't take 2h+, it took 30mins or so. Not sure, but approximately half an hour. Didn't time it. And yes, that includes updates as well, since it downloads and installs updates during installation procedure.

But the whole argument for installing something isn't logical. At least not to me. It's like saying don't purchase any new mac, because it will take time to transfer over all your files and apps?

Sorry, but I don't see the point in that argument at all

Yes, but most likely, at least one of your OSses won't work anymore. Pop in new drive, reinstall OS, then restore backup using what? Rsync?

Both work like a charm. Without any additional reinstalling of windows or anything else. Simple dual boot, no need to fix it up yourself, linux installation does all the hard work for you in the background, without you even realising it.

If the drive fails: have it fixed while working on a backup machine, or get a new one and restore from a TimeMachine backup.

Backup machine? Some of us have to travel and work. Should I bring a second MBP with me everywhere I go? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of thin and light?

It's quite user friendly: it just works. You should try it one day.

Don't worry, I have used TM backup. Far better solution then anything windows/linux offers. And I would know, since I use windows/linux every day, as I use Mac OS every day. Out of three OS mention, Mac OS is by far my favourite one. By far. But the problem isn't in Mac OS, but lousy hardware Apple produces these days.

If I could have Mac OS natively on X1E, believe me, that would be my OS of choice.
And TM backups can also get corrupted. That is why I use cloning of my drive as well. 2 backups are way better then just one.

If just one key fails: have it fixed while working on a backup machine. Remember, we're talking pro here. Hours spent on fixing a machine are hours spent making no money.

You can't have backup machine with you all the time, as I stated before. If I was in my office, sure, backup would be on the way in a matter of minutes. But how long would it take to restore a TM backup of 300-400 GB? You have problems with 'wasting' time on installing Linux or secondary SSD, but TM restore doesn't take time?

Restoring 300-400 GB would take way more time then installing Linux + SSD + RAM.

I never said I wanted everything glued in. You gave me the choice between large-but-user-maintainable or small. If that's the only choice, then small please. But if there's more choice, then small and user maintainable, please. Of course, the X1E's user accessible SSD slots are far better than soldered-in SSDs

Well, thin + light doesn't mean everything has to be glued in. Look at Lenovo X1C. It's lighter then MBP, and yet, you can still upgrade SSD easily.

 

[TheRealAlex]

That’s funny.
I’ve ordered X1 Extreme. Ordered Samsung 970 EVO 1tb.

X1E arrived, evo arrived. Unscrew 6-7 screws, pop in EVO, put screws back in. 2mins top.

Now I have 1tb for windows 10, and 1tb for Linux.

And if any of the drives die on me, it will take me 2mins to replace that drive. In a really thin and light laptop, with better specs then any MBP.

If your drive dies, what then? If just one key fails, what then?

So no, please, no... Pros don’t want everything glued in. Most of us anyway.

Wait for the new Samsung EVO Plus it’s way faster than the EVO and power usage is down from 1.8Watts to 1.2Watts mine arrives in 2 weeks.

 

[PeterJP]

So really, not something to be afraid of.

I'm not afraid of installing an SSD. I've done far worse (reapplying cooling paste in an almost non-modular el cheapo laptop comes to mind)

Of course Linux...
And installation didn't take 2h+, it took 30mins or so. Not sure, but approximately half an hour. Didn't time it. And yes, that includes updates as well, since it downloads and installs updates during installation procedure.

But the whole argument for installing something isn't logical. At least not to me. It's like saying don't purchase any new mac, because it will take time to transfer over all your files and apps?

Well, with a mac, you don't need to start by downloading you OS and installing it. You also don't need to start removing crapware. It just works. I have plenty of experience with Linux (over 10 distros in 25 years) and Windows (every version since Windows 3.0). The mac was a time saver from the second I bought it 5 years ago and it'll take more than a few temporary reliability issues to wane me off it.

I liked Arch Linux. Until I realised that every other month or so, something really basic like graphics or sound would break completely because of the rolling updates. On bog standard hardware. I've fixed it a few times. No more. Works like a charm, you say? Not my experience. No wonder Android and Linux based IoT are a security nightmare. You must potentially redo everything to update one small component. The only option is to go for something mainstream like Ubuntu and pray that they'll keep supporting what you have.

Backup machine? Some of us have to travel and work. Should I bring a second MBP with me everywhere I go? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of thin and light?

I don't travel too much anymore, except for a long commute. But if that's your argument pro upgradability, I wonder if you keep a spare SSD, screwdrivers, an USB installation drive and a USB backup drive with you all the time, then? ;-)

Out of three OS mention, Mac OS is by far my favourite one. By far. But the problem isn't in Mac OS, but lousy hardware Apple produces these days.

If I could have Mac OS natively on X1E, believe me, that would be my OS of choice.

You see, I think we agree. It would be far better if the MBP would keep its footprint but still have slots for SSD and RAM. I replied 'I do' because the choice was between fat or glued-in. We're so lucky to have companies like Lenovo that build great machines that combine both. It bites Apple where it hurts: their image. I hope it has the same effect as lower sales seems to have on the ever-rising prices: that Apple tries to do things better.

 

[R.P.G]

'It just works.'

not the case with these recent apple devices. you wouldn't see these many complaints(with pics and sororities) if that's the case. Old Macbook pro's used to runsfor years..look at the screen stage light issue in recent MBP's. it is very very common issue in cheap windows laptops. now it is happening to apple.

 

[c0ppo]

Well, with a mac, you don't need to start by downloading you OS and installing it.

You don't need to do that with Lenovo as well. It's a matter of choice. If you need Windows 10 on a mac, you also have to download it and install it, right? But if you don't need it, Mac OS is already there. As is Windows 10 on a Lenovo.

It just works.

Until it doesn't. Failing keyboards (I had multiple keyboard fails, and my company banned further purchases of 2016+ MBP), kernel panics, etc.

I'm on Mac OS since 2008/9, do you really think I enjoy switching to something else? Or I'm doing it because that mantra 'it just works' doesn't actually work anymore?

I liked Arch Linux. Until I realised that every other month or so, something really basic like graphics or sound would break completely because of the rolling updates.

Arch isn't for everyone. I don't use it. It's a rolling distro after all.
But if you liked Arch, you could have installed something like Manjaro, Arch based, but without updates breaking stuff around.

I don't travel too much anymore, except for a long commute. But if that's your argument pro upgradability, I wonder if you keep a spare SSD, screwdrivers, an USB installation drive and a USB backup drive with you all the time, then? ;-)

Of course I don't. But there is a IT store in almost every village, so purchasing a SSD isn't that hard. It's easier then having a broken MBP, a tool I use to do my job

 

[Queen6]

But there is a IT store in almost every village, so purchasing a SSD isn't that hard. It's easier then having a broken MBP, a tool I use to do my job

This is it; Although I travel with two systems for work purpose (one workstation, one ultra portable) I don't want to deal with a dead system and certainly not going to invest in hardware with well known issues. If a MBP has an issue only solution is to return it to Apple, which is hardly conducive getting things done. Any brand can suffer random failure, equally it's like Apple is engineering points of failure or they hardy do any real in house QA/QC, or plain clueless.

Mac is just a lottery now if you get a good one or a bad one. I pity those that have had numerous defective units, it's simply ridiculous. What's worse Apple seemingly has no solutions, knocking out the same garbage over and over with a band aid here and there, just as well Apple don't produce cars;

Apple has determined that a small percentage of vehicle braking systems in certain models may exhibit one or more of the following behaviour's:

• Failing to stop
• Jamming on unpredictably

It really is like that these days I need to be confident in my hardware once in the field as downtime costs. MBP failed on me it would be cheaper to replace the thing than wait on the repair

Q-6

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I had a dream that the 2019 MBP was released. It was kind of disappointing. It looked almost exactly the same, except each speaker grille was separated into three sections (not sure why) and it was using a GPU called "NVIDIA Cirrus" and the GPU was glued to the CPU.

I don't think any of that is going to end up true

 

[benface]

It was kind of disappointing. It looked almost exactly the same

Why would it look any different? Redesigns have historically occurred every 4 years, which would indicate it's coming in 2020.

 

[Dave245]

Why would it look any different? Redesigns have historically occurred every 4 years, which would indicate it's coming in 2020.

Yes the next redesign is likely to be in 2020, this year will probably see a spec update.

 

[cool11]

I know, we talk specifically about mbp here, but what happens in general in apple, surely affects the prospects of our beloved machines.
So, I think you will find interesting this 'wired' article:

https://www.wired.com/story/ideas-molly-wood-apple/

I would like to see a bright future in my personal/business computing, along with apple.
But I am not so sure where apple's pathway going....

 

[Queen6]

I know, we talk specifically about mbp here, but what happens in general in apple, surely affects the prospects of our beloved machines.
So, I think you will find interesting this 'wired' article:

https://www.wired.com/story/ideas-molly-wood-apple/

I would like to see a bright future in my personal/business computing, along with apple.
But I am not so sure where apple's pathway going....

Similar to many others Windows/Linux as Apple has clearly little interest in the Mac, it's abundantly clear. What a waste...

Sadly Apple sold out and has became all that it once stood against (IBM), thx to the greed of old men with more money than sense...

Q-6

 

[0990848]

been pretty disillusioned with apple lately, haven't been keeping up with any news for the past 6 months. any developments on the apple display, Mac Pro or MacBook pros for 2019?

 

[Dave245]

been pretty disillusioned with apple lately, haven't been keeping up with any news for the past 6 months. any developments on the apple display, Mac Pro or MacBook pros for 2019?

Mac Pro and Apple display are this year, MacBook Pro’s will likely get a spec bump with a redesign next year (in line with their usual 4 year redesign cycle).

 

[Think creative]

been pretty disillusioned with apple lately, haven't been keeping up with any news for the past 6 months. any developments on the apple display, Mac Pro or MacBook pros for 2019?

I'm guessing what the other poster said, new mac pro and new screen this summer, and probably a new iMac design? Or at least a spec bump. Also I'm not sure about chips but maybe a spec bump on the iMac pro? (I do not pay attention to the xeon chips, as I'm a pro that can do everything on my regular old iMac 5k). New laptops next summer (other than a spec bump this summer) is the most likely thing to happen.

 

[jsnuff1]

been pretty disillusioned with apple lately, haven't been keeping up with any news for the past 6 months. any developments on the apple display, Mac Pro or MacBook pros for 2019?

Yea pretty sad state of watching Apple go from Innovator to investor feeder. 10 years ago we were seeing multiple product updates a year across the whole line.

Worst part is the team/money/R&D has grown BIGGER but they are producing half of what the Mac team was doing 10 years ago.

 

[sosumi99]

Yea pretty sad state of watching Apple go from Innovator to investor feeder. 10 years ago we were seeing multiple product updates a year across the whole line.

Worst part is the team/money/R&D has grown BIGGER but they are producing half of what the Mac team was doing 10 years ago.

This was inevitable, really. If you're worked through the transition when a startup became "big," then you know that this general loss of motivation and slowdown is the price of success. Apple was the rare big company that managed to function somewhat like a startup when Jobs was able to essentially be an ******* and rule the place with an iron fist and surrounded himself with like-minded ******* lieutenants. Cook, on the other hand, is much more of a bureaucrat, and Apple is now a bureaucratic company.

Don't get me wrong, I think today's Apple is a much more pleasant place to work -- but it's not a place where people go if they want to "make a dent in the universe."