Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[DeepIn2U]

either you KNOW and have seen the research or you're pulling stuff out of your @rse mate... 17" was quite profitable machine. The problem IMHO seemed to coincide with 2 things:


1) lack of Retina LCD & powerful GPU

2) abandonment of Pro photo/graphic design segment


First one was explained and as of today we do have all components available, just not in a MacBook Pro shape. Second one is tricky and is far difficult to fathom especially as Apple continues to invest in Final Cut X and Logic. To me photo/graphic design is an important segment that would have been wonderfully complemented by iPads running some Apple software (they could have bought Pixelmator long ago and improve, not abandon Aperture). Why they chose to leave this segment is another topic, but if they didn't care about these customers it didn't make sense to create new laptop for them either





Actually not a gaming laptop - a decent, portable desktop replacement I bought my 17" in 2006 along with 23" ACD to get into digital photography. After some time I went for Aperture 2 (then 3). At work I spend most of the time in Excel, Access, SQL db crunching numbers and when time allowed in the evening I would fire up Windows in Bootcamp and play IL-2 with buddies back home (using up all USB 2 ports for X52 Pro, TrackIR and CH pedals ).


I went the expat route and needed a desktop replacement that I could carry around if needed and 17" was perfect for that. In addition to the 17" had better thermal stats - I lived in Middle East and I saw friend's MBP 15" getting far more hotter and louder than my machine ever did during normal use indoors.


As you pointed out there are things that don't necessary scale up with larger displays, but this does certainly apply to graphic design and photography. Someone mentioned that Apple didn't differentiate 15" and 17" enough - maybe, but then how does one explain iPhone Xs and Xs Max which have identical specs and the only difference is screen size? At work (mobile telco) I see roughly 50:50 split of both models. Again, I couldn't care about specs difference, I would always prefer 17" and gladly pay premium for the screen estate alone. Apple knows that screen size is important (iPad Pro 10.5" and 12"), they just can't be bothered to do something new in the Mac lineup.

I hope you’re not referring to Apple’s abandonment of the pro photo segment. Apple abandoned the G4 PowerBook 17” long before cancelling Their high end photo app.

Apple just didn’t have the expertise in house compared to adobe and quite frankly it would piss off a huge partner.

 

[PhilMacbook]

Apple just didn’t have the expertise in house compared to adobe and quite frankly it would piss off a huge partner.

Apple didn't mind that when they dropped Adobe Flash

 

[Queen6]

This was inevitable, really. If you're worked through the transition when a startup became "big," then you know that this general loss of motivation and slowdown is the price of success. Apple was the rare big company that managed to function somewhat like a startup when Jobs was able to essentially be an ******* and rule the place with an iron fist and surrounded himself with like-minded ******* lieutenants. Cook, on the other hand, is much more of a bureaucrat, and Apple is now a bureaucratic company.

Don't get me wrong, I think today's Apple is a much more pleasant place to work -- but it's not a place where people go if they want to "make a dent in the universe."

Very much agree, I've worked with similar myself and they are truly a PIA, equally I'd go back in a heartbeat as sometimes that's where it is, and when you pull it off the results are spectacular...

Q-6

 

[WHM]

My newest MacBook Pro mid 2016. Had to get the screen replaced, while waiting pulled out my backup 2012. After 2 1/2 years using the 2016 I discovered how much better I like the 2012 keyboard much more than my newest. Would like to upgrade to 2019 while my trade in price is still good on the 2016. After using the backup I will still keep instead of the 2016. Would like to see much more than speed bump !

 

[jsnuff1]

This was inevitable, really. If you're worked through the transition when a startup became "big," then you know that this general loss of motivation and slowdown is the price of success. Apple was the rare big company that managed to function somewhat like a startup when Jobs was able to essentially be an ******* and rule the place with an iron fist and surrounded himself with like-minded ******* lieutenants. Cook, on the other hand, is much more of a bureaucrat, and Apple is now a bureaucratic company.

Don't get me wrong, I think today's Apple is a much more pleasant place to work -- but it's not a place where people go if they want to "make a dent in the universe."

Yea but we are not even talking about "making a dent" at this point. They have 200 damn billion dollars that they dont know what to do with, throw an extra couple million at the mac hardware team and do what they were doing 10 years ago...

 

[WHM]

Yea but we are not even talking about "making a dent" at this point. They have 200 damn billion dollars that they dont know what to do with, throw an extra couple million at the mac hardware team and do what they were doing 10 years ago...

They seem to be only interested in making phones! First issue I've had in a very long time with my laptop. Very hard to actually make appointment with genius bar, told just to come in early before the store opens. I went an hour early and did not get out until after 1 pm. (took less than 15 minutes) If you had a phone problem different story, they told me they have a very limited employees that can help with the computers. I admit that every year upgrade my phone but expect them to be as concerned with the other product they make, computer cost much more.

 

[sosumi99]

Yea but we are not even talking about "making a dent" at this point. They have 200 damn billion dollars that they dont know what to do with, throw an extra couple million at the mac hardware team and do what they were doing 10 years ago...

See, the thing is, you can't really get motivation and dedication back just by throwing more money at it. A larger team filled with people who just want a paycheck will be far worse than a small team with highly motivated people. Apple's hardware team really "can't innovate my ass" at this point. They can barely make a problem-free product. From Jony down, the organization reeks of "let's just squeeze more money out of our customers." It's a death spiral that they cannot get out of a second time.

(Apple isn't going to "fail," of course. They can coast on their present success for half a decade more, but so long as Cook puts more interest in "shareholder value" management than customers, there's no way Apple can be the quirky company that once led the industry. Developers and customers alike will leave, and that is a sad thing for all of us.)

I'm ready to jump ship with one more subpar iteration of the MBPs.

 

[09872738]

I'm ready to jump ship with one more subpar iteration of the MBPs.

I second that. I am in the same boat. However, there are barely alternatives: Close to any other manufacturer ships with Windows, which is hardly an improvement. Linux on the other hand is not quite ready for prime time (also due to lack of third party support).

The choices therefore are either pestilence or cholera. True predicament.

 

[sosumi99]

I second that. I am in the same boat. However, there are barely alternatives: Close to any other manufacturer ships with Windows, which is hardly an improvement. Linux on the otheris not quite ready for prime time (also due to lack of third party support).

The choices therefore are either pestilence or cholera. True predicament.

It's not just Windows that's awful, it's the fact that many Mac apps I depend on to make a living don't have Windows equivalents. And to this day, no other OEM has a trackpad that can match the one on MBPs. So yes, like you say, I'm stuck picking between two awful choices.

So far, Macs are still better than the alternative, when taking into account the software. I guess Cook is trying to see how much longer I'll put up with this. I said I would jump ship with one more iteration of bad machines, but if I were completely honest, I may stick with them all the way to the next major redesign of the MBP. I suppose Apple knows old customers like me are attached to the ecosystem and can leverage that loyalty to milk as much out of us as it can. Sigh.

 

[09872738]

Correct. I am however not willing to accept Apples current prices. I have no problem paying a premium as long as its seems worth it and given its within certain limits.
Unfortunately, last year Apple just blew the scale. Unacceptable. They totally lost ground contact.

Maybe there's a year or two I can wait, maybe they reverse their course. Otherwise I'd really hate to find something else. After 20 years.
Well done, TC. That's how not to do it

 

[Ener Ji]

I don’t see them introducing a redesign until next year (2020) I think they will continue to improve and fix the keyboard, this year will probably be just a spec bump with a move to 10nm processors.

10nm processors suitable for the entire lineup of MBPs will apparently not launch until 2020.

 

[Eason85]

See, the thing is, you can't really get motivation and dedication back just by throwing more money at it. A larger team filled with people who just want a paycheck will be far worse than a small team with highly motivated people. Apple's hardware team really "can't innovate my ass" at this point. They can barely make a problem-free product. From Jony down, the organization reeks of "let's just squeeze more money out of our customers." It's a death spiral that they cannot get out of a second time.

(Apple isn't going to "fail," of course. They can coast on their present success for half a decade more, but so long as Cook puts more interest in "shareholder value" management than customers, there's no way Apple can be the quirky company that once led the industry. Developers and customers alike will leave, and that is a sad thing for all of us.)

I'm ready to jump ship with one more subpar iteration of the MBPs.

This guy gets it. This is how people (and companies) work, unfortunately.

 

[thequietaussie]

10nm processors suitable for the entire lineup of MBPs will apparently not launch until 2020.

I think the best we can hope for is
- 9th Gen Intel CPUs
- Possible early access to AMD's Navi GPUs
- Further keyboard refinements
- Display cable fix
- T3 chip? Or have they fixed up the issues with the T2 chips with firmware updates?

So, depending on how Navi plays out, a minor spec bump.

Though I'd also love to see (and I know these are super unlikely)
- Up to 64GB of DDR4
- Cheaper SSD upgrades (no, I was not able to type that with a straight face)
- A non-touch-bar option but with Touch ID still or maybe even FaceID
- Cooling system refinements

 

[c0ppo]

- Further keyboard refinements

Yup. 4th generation of failed keyboard redesign in 4 years is gonna fix keyboard issues

- Display cable fix

Nope. They can't change it until redesign even if they wanted to.

- T3 chip? Or have they fixed up the issues with the T2 chips with firmware updates?

T2 chips hasn't been fixed, and fix will probably never arrive.

- Up to 64GB of DDR4

This one is actually possible, because Apple now uses DDR4, and there are 32gb sticks available already. No redesign needed. Only question is will Apple allow 64GB or not? But if they allow it, it will cost a fortune.

- A non-touch-bar option but with Touch ID still or maybe even FaceID

Face ID not until redesign. TB is here to stay I'm afraid

 

[thequietaussie]

Yup. 4th generation of failed keyboard redesign in 4 years is gonna fix keyboard issues

Urgh, yeah I'd love it if they dropped the butterfly switches. But if the redesign isn't happening until 2020, then it's here to stay until at least then. Plus we all know how Apple love to double down on infuriatingly stupid design decisions.

Nope. They can't change it until redesign even if they wanted to.

Well that sucks. I might have to see if I can hold off until the redesign then :/

T2 chips hasn't been fixed, and fix will probably never arrive.

Surely it'll get fixed eventually. I could see them quietly doing a second revision of the T2 chip with hardware mitigations for the problems. Assuming it's a hardware problem that can't be fixed in firmware.

This one is actually possible, because Apple now uses DDR4, and there are 32gb sticks available already. No redesign needed. Only question is will Apple allow 64GB or not? But if they allow it, it will cost a fortune.

It'll be horrific, that's for sure. 32GB upgrade is currently AU640. Which puts a 64GB upgrade at a bare minimum AU1280 but it'll certainly be more than that.

Face ID not until redesign. TB is here to stay I'm afraid

Yeah, I know. But a man can dream.

 

[c0ppo]

Surely it'll get fixed eventually. I could see them quietly doing a second revision of the T2 chip with hardware mitigations for the problems. Assuming it's a hardware problem that can't be fixed in firmware.

Well, reading about T2 chip issues, no one seems to know what the problem is. Not even Apple. Probably hardware issue. And if that is the case, well, people with T2 chips will always have those problems. Upgrading hardware won't help them

To be honest, I never had issues with T2 chip, and I used a iMP and a MBP 2017 15". Not even one crash. But it seems a lot of people weren't as lucky as I was.

It'll be horrific, that's for sure. 32GB upgrade is currently AU640. Which puts a 64GB upgrade at a bare minimum AU1280 but it'll certainly be more than that.

Actually, way more then that. 32GB stick is still a rare animal, and it's priced as such. Add Apple tax to that and you will probably be able to purchase additional PC for the 64GB MBP upgrade

Yeah, I know. But a man can dream.

Well, I have dreams as well. But took 'em elsewhere, where those dreams are somewhat fulfilled

P.S.
But of course, still holding out hope that Apple will come to their senses. But I simply wouldn't hold my breath on it

 

[0990848]

I second that. I am in the same boat. However, there are barely alternatives: Close to any other manufacturer ships with Windows, which is hardly an improvement. Linux on the other hand is not quite ready for prime time (also due to lack of third party support).

The choices therefore are either pestilence or cholera. True predicament.

This. I no longer use Apple products because they charm me. I use Apple products because they happen to be the least crappiest option now.

 

[Donoban]

I'm ready to jump ship with one more subpar iteration of the MBPs.

Jump ship to what?

Ain't no way I'd go back to Windows or Linux.

What's your beef?

Software or hardware?

I just purchased a MacBook Pro 2018 and couldn't be happier.

Other than price, the machine is super fast (upgraded from Mac mini 2012). I left the ram at 16gb but went with the entry level Vega 16.

 

[afir93]

Well, reading about T2 chip issues, no one seems to know what the problem is. Not even Apple. Probably hardware issue. And if that is the case, well, people with T2 chips will always have those problems. Upgrading hardware won't help them

If it is a hardware issue, why would people with T2 chips always have these issues? It being a hardware issue would imply that a small selection of MBPs with T2 chips would be faulty in some way, since a vast majority of T2 Mac users don‘t have these issues, wouldn‘t it? So exchanging/servicing the machine would statistically come with a very high probability of getting a machine that doesn‘t have whatever fault is causing it?

About everything else, I don‘t disagree. It‘s a little baffling that these T2 issues still don‘t seem to be completely fixed, 13 months after the initial release of a T2 Mac – either Apple themselves doesn‘t know what exactly is causing them or how to fix it, just like you say, or it‘s so low on their priority list that they haven‘t gotten around to it yet. I fortunately didn‘t have a single crash on my 2018 MBP in the 7 months that I‘m using it now, but I definitely feel with those that are affected by it.

 

[pshufd]

Are the T2 chip issues just on MacBooks? MacBook Pros? We haven't had any issues at all on our new Mac Mini and it has a T2 chip.

 

[c0ppo]

If it is a hardware issue, why would people with T2 chips always have these issues? It being a hardware issue would imply that a small selection of MBPs with T2 chips would be faulty in some way, since a vast majority of T2 Mac users don‘t have these issues, wouldn‘t it? So exchanging/servicing the machine would statistically come with a very high probability of getting a machine that doesn‘t have whatever fault is causing it?

As I stated earlier, no one seems to know if it is a hardware of software issue. And as I mentioned already, I never had a single crash caused by Bridge OS, and I used two machines with T2 chips. What is causing the issue? Obviously no one knows, not even Apple. If they knew what is the problem, they would fix it by now

Are the T2 chip issues just on MacBooks? MacBook Pros? We haven't had any issues at all on our new Mac Mini and it has a T2 chip.

iMP users are the first to experience those issues. I haven't been to mac mini or macbook air forums to check if they are suffering from same issues.

 

[Ma2k5]

If it is a hardware issue, why would people with T2 chips always have these issues? It being a hardware issue would imply that a small selection of MBPs with T2 chips would be faulty in some way, since a vast majority of T2 Mac users don‘t have these issues, wouldn‘t it? So exchanging/servicing the machine would statistically come with a very high probability of getting a machine that doesn‘t have whatever fault is causing it?

About everything else, I don‘t disagree. It‘s a little baffling that these T2 issues still don‘t seem to be completely fixed, 13 months after the initial release of a T2 Mac – either Apple themselves doesn‘t know what exactly is causing them or how to fix it, just like you say, or it‘s so low on their priority list that they haven‘t gotten around to it yet. I fortunately didn‘t have a single crash on my 2018 MBP in the 7 months that I‘m using it now, but I definitely feel with those that are affected by it.

If it is a hardware design issue, it means every computer is vulnerable, but it doesn’t mean everyone will do a workflow that causes it. Not long ago someone managed to find a way to replicate/force it at will.

At present software fixes can mitigate and decrease the number of scenarios where the KP triggers. However it is unlikely every scenario will be accounted for.

Software fixes for hardware issues are just that, band aids.

 

[soiramk]

These are the reasons keeping me away from upgrading my MBP...
Even if it's only affects some units, as mentioned in this forums before, it's just impossible to be sure as some of the replaced units offered have the issue too.
Hoping for an updated T3 (?) chip model this year.

 

[Donoban]

These are the reasons keeping me away from upgrading my MBP...
Even if it's only affects some units, as mentioned in this forums before, it's just impossible to be sure as some of the replaced units offered have the issue too.
Hoping for an updated T3 (?) chip model this year.

lolz.

What year is your current MBP? How many devices do you have daisy chained from it?

 

[NBAasDOGG]

I think the best we can hope for is
- 9th Gen Intel CPUs
- Possible early access to AMD's Navi GPUs
- Further keyboard refinements
- Display cable fix
- T3 chip? Or have they fixed up the issues with the T2 chips with firmware updates?

So, depending on how Navi plays out, a minor spec bump.

Though I'd also love to see (and I know these are super unlikely)
- Up to 64GB of DDR4
- Cheaper SSD upgrades (no, I was not able to type that with a straight face)
- A non-touch-bar option but with Touch ID still or maybe even FaceID
- Cooling system refinements

NAVI delayed to Q4 2019!
Google it...