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Why would you buy clothes online?

Because it is more convenient. I usually just sit back go through a whole collection of clothing without the hassle of going through hangers and racks and annoying sales people following you around.
 
So you don't actually understand what got breached yet you blame the credit card companies for personal data lost?

The only personal data in the track data is your name. All other personal data Target lost came from their own databases and had nothing to do with the card companies.

This one is all on Target for failing to secure their systems.

Ram scrapers have nothing valuable to scrape except when mag stripes are used. Target was a ram scrape. Hence the ultimate blame lies with those who stalled the chip and pin implementation.
 
I believe that Walmart is going to have to reverse their decision to not accept Apple Pay. If grocery chains like Public, Kroger, Ingles, etc. get on board Walmart will be forced to join in.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Walmart probably demanded a better deal than everyone else. Walmart uses its size as a huge negotiating point when dealing with suppliers. In Apple's position, I'd mount a campaign showing people using Apple Pay at merchants and choosing to shop only at places that take it.

Personally, after I see that it works well, I'm planning to no longer carry a wallet. Just a simple ID folder will work.
 
Their loss.

Funny, the AT&T rep I was just talking to, kept pushing Best Buy as a place to get the iPhone 6 faster. Ah, no thanks. Never liked shopping there (no "Best" buys yet) and as others have said, it's crazy a tech store wouldn't support this.
 
I think the issue for Walmart is the need to replace several hundred thousand point of sale (POS) terminals to support NFC payments by Apple Pay--and that's just in the USA alone. That will cost potentially billions of US dollars in hardware, installation and training.

Walmart--being the largest retailer in the USA--should just replace the POS terminals anyway so it could support both Apple Pay and the Softcard (formerly ISIS) NFC mobile payment systems.
 
Whoa. Tell me the secret to getting ignored at Best Buy. I'd love to be able to shop without their floor staff trying to "help" me all the time.
I have found that the best way to be ignored at Best Buy is to actually need assistance. You'll be doubly-shunned if you know exactly what item you want and need them to get it out of the locked stocked area. I don't know how they know, but they know.

I've never been in a store that makes it more difficult to go in and buy some specific item.

Probably not a coincidence that both Best Buy and Walmart allow DirecTv salesmen to masquerade as store employees.
 
Damn. I've been in a Best Buy maybe five times in my life... Wal-Mart never.

Once I discovered Amazon and Newegg I never set foot in a Best Buy again...the only reason I ever did was to price compare and buy the item online from another retailer while I was in the store.

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Wal-Mart: 45 registers, 3 open on a Saturday afternoon.
 
Well technically if you only used the Chip and Pin portion (IE inserting it into the slot rather then swiping it) - it's be nearly impossible to hack.

Unfortunately not a lot of retailers have the capability to take the chip portion and your left swiping it - which negates the chip in the first place.

Really? That surprises me. As of this year every active credit card in my country has a pin and every pos has the ability to insert card, non swipe. Most also have contactless payments, eg PayPass and payWave.
 
Ram scrapers have nothing valuable to scrape except when mag stripes are used. Target was a ram scrape. Hence the ultimate blame lies with those who stalled the chip and pin implementation.

I agree, 100%, that EMV would have eliminated the value of the credit card data breached. To be honest, that isn't even my biggest concern with Target though. They were far more than the victims of a RAM scraper. They also suffered from a breach of their customer databases, and considering that Target is, perhaps, the most infamous of all data-collectors, I think that is a far bigger concern to most of our privacy. We can get account numbers re-issued. We cannot remove the value of god-knows-what data Target collected on our shopping habits, preferences, etc.

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Probably not a coincidence that both Best Buy and Walmart allow DirecTv salesmen to masquerade as store employees.

We don't have DirecTV at Best Buy here, but we have Samsung and Apple reps. To be honest, they're the smartest (especially the Samsung guy, I hate to admit) and nicest people in the store...
 
Amazon will need to adopt something. Since they compete with most retailers... this won't end well for them.

Amazon doesn't need to adopt anything. They might put in :apple:Pay for the App, but probably not. You already have the CC for AmazonPayments, so why put in :apple:Pay? Especially for Discover, where using :apple:Pay would exclude you from using rewards.

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Its simple, they are looking at cost "woah, that much to support Pay over normal NFC, i don't care how secure it is, were going with normal NFC due to the cost" Once again, screwing over customer payment security to save some pennies. What would be neat is if they learned from their mistakes (i can see why target is adapting apple pay) and jumped on board to solve a problem. Now whats going to happen is normal NFC payments will somehow get hacked, because its going to be come a target for tech savvy thieves and Apple will get to say, "see, i told ya so"

The only thing needed for :apple:Pay is tokenization-enabled NFC POS. Tokenization is not an Apple thing, it's an NFC spec, but no one ever used it except for, now :apple:Pay. Now, b/c of :apple:Pay, most retailers that accept NFC will have to upgrade soon enough b/c of the way :apple:Pay works
 
I don't understand.

do frequent shoppers at walmart have iPhones?
I would imagine that they probably still use Nokia refrigerator/phones.

I don't understand all the Walmart hate. I do understand the whole "they killed the smaller merchant" mentality but other than that, not so much. They offer the same mix of decent stuff and junk that Kmart, Target and others offer. Just more of it and greater variety. Because they do offer lower prices (at least theoretically) you will find the poorer members of the community tending to shop there. But you shouldn't hate on poor people, you may be poor some day. In a lot of communities, Walmart is the only option for a store of its type.
 
Their loss.

Funny, the AT&T rep I was just talking to, kept pushing Best Buy as a place to get the iPhone 6 faster. Ah, no thanks. Never liked shopping there (no "Best" buys yet) and as others have said, it's crazy a tech store wouldn't support this.

No, it's rather logical from their point of view. Contactless fees are higher than swipe/insert for debit in the US. Which is RIDICULOUS. In other countries there are contactless incentives.
 
If you live in the U.S. then you have a basis to be dissapointed. However if you live in the rest of the modern world then Apple has created a solution to a problem that has not existed for several years. As an example in Canada NFC payments have been in place since 2012. Also since that time, debit and credit cards have a NFC tab chip built into them. Just tap your debit or credit card at the checkout, no need to enter a PIN, and you're on your way.

Precisely why :apple:Pay is US-first. But even your analysis has a fault in it that you haven't addressed. :apple:Pay's solution is not just NFC, but the ability for you to never have to actually take out Debit/CC in the first place. And yes, for me, that's a huge timesaver. I have a hand disability, so using CC's takes a while (comparatively to others) to take wallet out, take CC out, put CC back in and put wallet back in. On the other hand, my iPhone is easy to take out, don't have to unlock, and authenticate and go. For others, the time-save might be 15-30 sec. For me it's like 45 sec. But those 15-30 seconds add up quickly when there are multiple in a line.

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It's funny how a bunch of you complain and say you won't shop there anymore... as if pulling a credit card out of your pocket is so difficult. You all sound like whining babies.

How quickly you're owed something that didn't exist a week ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E

I hate having to pull out my CC. It's also a reason why I shop from Amazon whenever possible. I have a hand disability so using CC's is difficult for me. If something exists that makes shopping easier for me, I will use it over something that doesn't. Plain and simple.

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How long to do you think it will be before the Gov steps in and start to investigate Apple ? I would say about 2 years from now. Apple is getting too big. Sorry but its about happen soon.

Investigate them for what? They're not even a remote monopoly like MSFT was. :apple:Pay? Just like Apple discussed w/ FDA for their Health app, they probably discussed :apple:Pay with DOJ and/or FCC/related gov agencies. So, please inform us, what exactly is Apple going to be investigated for?

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You're getting far too granular. I never mentioned anything that nitty gritty for you to refute.

The merchants/retailers are the ONES WHO ARE BEING ASKED TO ADOPT this Apple product/service. Period. The retailers are essentially on the hook for a lot of possible problems and general adoption issues. Period. Your reply is similar to me calling ATT and stating the service stinks and they tell me I should really call company ABC whose chips are on the cell towers. No. I pay ATT and I don't care how ATT services me. Ditto with Apple Pay...at the end of the day Apple is pitching this product/service to the retailers...and so far (for all if not more of my reasons) the retailers are not going forward with Apple.

My original post is valid.

No, your post isn't valid. It's not that some retailers are not going forward w/ Apple, it's that WalMart and BB are not going for NFC. You can't expect Apple to get every retailer to accept from the get-go. That's an unrealistic expectation. But when you have large companies like McDonald's and Starbucks, etc. accepting (and presumably, succeeding with) NFC/:apple:Pay, then others will come on. Walmart and BB (and Target, more accurately), are hedging their bets and that's ok for now. NFC has never really taken off in the past in the US. But :apple:Pay, or some other NFC standard, will prevail in the end.

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While I think :apple:Pay on the iPhone looks pretty solid. The :apple:Watch opens up all sorts of security problems. They really should just make TouchID on the iPhone 5s+ the only way to unlock the watch, rather than giving full, fast and untraceable access to all your credit cards via a single pin.

The reason :apple:Watch doesn't require TouchID is that presumably, the watch is not going to be stolen as it's going to be on your wrist during all waking hours vs. the iPhone which can be forgotten/lost/stolen more easily.

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As much as people are bashing walmart and best buy there are a lot more retailers that are under Merchant customer exchange that we wont be seeing under apple pay.

Here some list of retailers

Walmart
Best Buy
Target
Lowes
Dillards
Kohls
Bed bath beyond
Kmart
Micheals
meijer
Sears
Gap
Old navy
Banana republic
Shell gas
76
exxonmobil
circle k
7-11
Rite aid
CVS

And a lot more.

Interesting that the rumor of CVS was going to be under apple pay but they are still listed under merchant customer exchange and not in the apple site part of apple pay. As much as people are excited about apple pay I dont see it gaining much traction. Merchant customer exchange has been around for a long time and has plenty of retailers under their belt. So far the list for apple isnt great the only place I go to on their list is petco just to buy my dog food.

MXE has never been around in the consumer world. Their app hasn't even been released. And your list is misleading. Walmart and BB are the only ones saying that they won't support NFC. The others on the list support MXE, but that doesn't preclude them from supporting NFC as well. They're probably just taking the wait-and-see approach. 220,000 locations at launch is nothing to sniff at. It's only going to get bigger.

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Right but my point is, they could still steal your credit card or debit card number. Apple Pay doesn't change that. It eliminates the possibility it may be stolen right there but it's still not completely solving the problem people could get ahold of the number and still use it. Presumably that would become less likely the more you're able to use Apple Pay (less exposure).

It actually does solve the problem to the best anyone can do. The only way that they could get ahold of the number is if they hacked the banks/CC companies.As has been explained in other threads, even if they got ahold of one token, that token doesn't have the actual CC number. The tokenization and NFC standard would have to be broken in order for that to happen.

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And reasoning for that is because if you read up on MCX, merchants are prohibited from supporting competitor's system. WHEN MCX fails, they already have the terminals in place. Nobody is going to want a second or third app on their phone.

Merchants are not prohibited from supporting competitor's systems, at least not in apps. See: Target.
 
Not quite. "Your phone" should be "your iPhone 6 (or later)". There are none out there now and in the next year I doubt it will amount to more than 5% of all smartphones worldwide. I can't blame retailers for not jumping in on a solution that so few people can use for at least a couple years or more.

And AppleWatch. And every other NFC-enabled Android Phone. All Apple did was create a cohesive system with banks and CCs that made NFC a viable payment option. Google Wallet may be less secure, but it still uses NFC and can/will benefit from Apple's work.
 
But they don't match the lack of sales tax charged. People in many states are supposed to self report what they bought from Amazon and the like and pay with their state income taxes....but few do. This advantage is probably only temporary and has already been done away with in some states that have forced Amazon to collect for them. But for now there is an advantage to buying from Amazon.

Amazon now charges tax in a lot of states, including mine. So the only reason that I don't shop at BB is that a) I don't have a car and b) return profiles.
 
Well then I think you need to take Business 101 because you're getting personal and not speaking from a business standpoint.

You are saying that all of a sudden, Wal mart which is frequented by millions of people who buy their daily necessities will lose business just because people with iPhone 6 in particular, with NFC will not shop there?

Okay.
 
I don't understand all the Walmart hate. I do understand the whole "they killed the smaller merchant" mentality but other than that, not so much. They offer the same mix of decent stuff and junk that Kmart, Target and others offer. Just more of it and greater variety. Because they do offer lower prices (at least theoretically) you will find the poorer members of the community tending to shop there. But you shouldn't hate on poor people, you may be poor some day. In a lot of communities, Walmart is the only option for a store of its type.
Hit up Payson, AZ, lovely town, but if you want anything at all, you gotta go to Walmart. They literally don't have anything else and according to locals, before Walmart, they didn't have ANYTHING and had to drive to Phoenix to pick up basic necessities like shoes or clothing.

I also used to work for Walmart and it was a fun place to work. Still have many friends there. I even have customers come in and try to diss the place, well sir, then why are you in here when there's Target across the street? And our store literally is like a family. I still count on those guys for a lot, so Walmart isn't all too bad. People just need to turn the tv off sometimes and get outside for themselves.
 
Then there is a serious compatibility issue and Apple is disobeying the EMV spec. There NEEDS to be a de-tokenisation process available for mass transit and similar applications (to track tap-in/tap-out from the same phone and across days/weeks/months for fare capping and travelcards). De-tokenisation is specified by EMVco so if Apple follows the spec then it IS possible to track. If Apple doesn't follow the spec, the product is rubbish.

You're forgetting that de-tokenization reveals the fake 'CC number' that is changed every time you use :apple:Pay. So yes, there may be de-tokenization, but the ability to track via CC is still gone.
 
I don't think they realize quite how big of a barrier that is for many people. Especially if Apple Pay is working at lots of other places and they already can use that on their phone without a download. Plus, it's not just a download, you'll also have to create yet another account, with another password, sign in, etc.

And who knows how secure that is over Pay where it requires your fingerprint to authorize the payment.
 
Oh no! So I'll have to keep paying with my credit card, check, or cash at best buy and Walmart?! So? That's not really a deal breaker.

Oh, and FYI, just because some of us shop at Walmart, does not mean that we're poor. Having a credit card with a high credit limit doesn't make you rich either.
 
Oh no! So I'll have to keep paying with my credit card, check, or cash at best buy and Walmart?! So? That's not really a deal breaker.

Oh, and FYI, just because some of us shop at Walmart, does not mean that we're poor. Having a credit card with a high credit limit doesn't make you rich either.

Actually, having a high credit limit means that at some point you had the money to repay that much. They do look at tax returns as well as credit score for credit increases. I'm not necessarily going to stop shopping at Walmart & BB (I pay w/ PayPal at BB) b/c of this, but it is going to make me stop and see if there's a deal somewhere where :apple:Pay is accepted.
 
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