Walmart and Best Buy Opt Out of 'Apple Pay' as Apple Leverages Required Point-of-Sale Upgrades

[Lindsford]

This makes me even happier I stopped shopping at both of these retailers years ago. Race to the bottom I guess.

Was thinking the same thing I don't go to a Walmart unless it's the only thing nearby or open.

Best Buy is terrible too. I went to go look at tvs when I first moved and stopped in since it was right next to where I had dinner, I found a floor model tv I wanted to purchase and both employees refused to plug it up to an actual feed to make sure everything was ok. They just plugged the tv into the wall and said "See, it works" -_-.

Good riddance to both. Wish we had a Frys Electronics or a Microcenter in Tampa

 

[koban4max]

it's okay best buy...i just go to your store.....and look at the movies that i want to download at home.....no $ from me you bastard.

 

[stewy]

In some senses I'm quite proud that Walmart and BestBuy are making a stand. While I'm all for the ubiquity and convenience I'll receive with PAY as an iOS citizen these upcoming security mandates were a real chance for transaction facilitators to come together and unify the crap out of this instead of giving poor old merchants yet another bloody rub.

Apple have strong market share but they aren't the only smart NFC device provider and with their locked in proprietary nature, not playing nice with the other guys (Android, for one) is going to lead to some stupid AT&T vs Verizon type split for coverage and support, all at the cost of precious resources.

Good on Walmart and BestBuy for choosing a solution that supports all customers, send a message to these overly rich executives that some things need not be a competition.

(Google Wallet + Apple Pay) Future Ca$h support POS for the win.

I wish I could upvote this a million times!

 

[tigres]

Point of interest...

Couple of things here.

1. have not heard from Costco yet, bet they get on board ASAP due to the relationship with AMEX- watch for that.

2. A lot of folks on this thread seem to be under the impression that it is just as easy to whip out a CC from you wallet. Time wise, that is accurate- but you are all missing the point. This is about SECURITY for you.

Just recently, I had my debit card breached (I always use it as a CC btw). Someone ran up 380.00 in groceries at a store near my primary residence. Weird thing (or good thing), I was in another state at the time, and was able to prove it to get my money back quickly. Re-issued me a new card, all was ok. Who knows how it was skimmed, but to make the purchase, the thief had a duplicate card made from my #'s.

Point being is that with the Home depot breach, Target, PF Changs, etc... I am worried currently what can show up in the next 12-24 months from that problem. Fortunately I only carry AMEX for a CC, so I feel pretty protected and rightfully so.

TLDR, I love this security feature and will use it to protect myself from any thief earning a living stealing my data without my knowledge.

 

[Menel]

Screw credit card companies and their fees. I like WalMart's system better.

What fees? I pay no fees to my credit card company. Get one without fees, there are MANY.

In fact, the FREEDOM card that is advertised prominently with Apple Pay, has no fees. There you go!

 

[gnasher729]

My understanding is that to support "Apple Pay" the merchant doesn't need to do anything at all specific to Apple, they just need to support Credit or Debit cards with NFC. The software on the iPhone sends data pretending it is a credit card, the NFC reader sends the data for example to Visa, Visa recognises that it is an "Apple Pay" fake credit card and accepts it, and the NFC card reader is happy.

So apparently Walmart and Best Buy don't want to use this. They don't want to upgrade their hardware. Instead I'm supposed to install software on my iPhone, coming from a source that _I_ don't trust.

My prediction: By the end of the year, there will be 80 million iPhones capable of using Apple Pay, plus maybe 80,000 iPhones capable of using that software that Walmart wants you to use.

Considering Best Buy mines people's credit cards to create shopping and returning profiles on them, I think it's not a big loss that Best Buy won't except payments.

As for Walmart, I don't think I've shopped at Walmart in the last three years now. But I am sure I am a minority, as evident by their parking lot daily.

I suppose that's why Best Buy doesn't like Apple Pay. With Apple Pay, if you buy any goods, Best Buy gets your money. And that's it. They don't get _any_ information about who you are. Customers love it. Best Buy hates it.

 

[macs4nw]

Wow, that is going to be a loss for the retailers over time, I think, if they don't ever make the change. At the rate the new iPhone is selling, they're potentially missing out on millions of transactions where people might go to another retailer who does support the new service.

I'm very surprised at Best Buy being a technology retailer and reseller of Apple products to not be on board with this. For shame.

These retailers probably hope to 'wing it' by supporting their own (MCX) technology, thereby disallowing Apple their small cut, but as you noted, market forces such as the loss of millions of sales may change their mind, once Pay takes off with a large installed customer base of iPhone 6s (and perhaps Watches), iPhone6Ss and beyond.

More than likely they're privately aware that they may have to concede sooner rather than later.

Edited for clarification.

 

[thasan]

Target was featured in the Keynote for taking ApplePay for online orders done through their app. No mention of in store acceptance.

i see. my mistake then.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Their loss? Really? Do you know the volume of sales at Walmart nationwide?

Their margins are so low I'm not sure they can afford to slice off anymore to Apple and the CC provider.

 

[aricG]

I only ever go to Best Buy to demo something I am interested in but will buy online, and I can honestly say I do not remember the last time I was in a Walmart, I just don't shop there

 

[thisrocks]

My understanding is that to support "Apple Pay" the merchant doesn't need to do anything at all specific to Apple, they just need to support Credit or Debit cards with NFC. The software on the iPhone sends data pretending it is a credit card, the NFC reader sends the data for example to Visa, Visa recognises that it is an "Apple Pay" fake credit card and accepts it, and the NFC card reader is happy.

So apparently Walmart and Best Buy don't want to use this. They don't want to upgrade their hardware. Instead I'm supposed to install software on my iPhone, coming from a source that _I_ don't trust.

My prediction: By the end of the year, there will be 80 million iPhones capable of using Apple Pay, plus maybe 80,000 iPhones capable of using that software that Walmart wants you to use.

As per my 3rd post in this thread...do you have an idea of where you may have got this understanding? I would really like to read a merchant guide to supporting Pay

 

[The Barron]

Will Best Buy be here on Dec. 31, 2015? NO

Best Buy is teetering on the edge of extinction you'd figure they'd do everything they can to make their costumers er... customer happy...

Will Best Buy be around in 2015? LMAO

Best Buy is going the way of Circuit City & by the end of March 2015, Radio Shack. Amazon no longer needs them as their showroom with the likes of Costco & the Internet.

Bye Bye, Best Buy.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

Thanks, definitely what I thought but a few people mentioned that they were fine giving up rewards for convenience which sounds crazy to me. Not that certain people would feel that way but that Apple executives would think that a solution could rely on the majority of people feeling in such a way.

That is the beauty of the Pay system, and maybe Google Wallet - I dunno, i'm not a user. You can use your normal cards, and switch between them pretty easy.

It doesn't sound like the BB/WM/Merchant system is going to do that. By tying it to a checking account it will work like the Target Debit card - issuing an ACH to that account each time. Ergo, no merchant fees.

This is trying to shift the $$ out of the hands of the traditional hands, and putting more into the merchants. Some, like Target will offer you the 5%, others may just pocket that reduction in fees and add it to the bottom line.

Banks and such are on-board with the ApplePay stuff in my mind because of the fraud reduction. They are more in touch with their card holders than the merchants are at this point... I fight the battle each time I work.

 

[MauriceMoss]

Yes, CurrentC, the vaporware app that was announced back in 2012 that still isn't out.

But, all it requires is a software download.....

Apparently it's not that simple. lol

 

[Trapezoid]

I'm a little confused by this. Does this just mean Wal-Mart and best buy are not adding nfc terminals? What exactly makes something "compatible"with apple pay

 

[nsayer]

Considering Best Buy mines people's credit cards to create shopping and returning profiles on them, I think it's not a big loss that Best Buy won't except payments.

Don't kid yourself - Pay doesn't disable this behavior. Tim said that the clerk doesn't get to know your name. He didn't say that the merchant doesn't. I am fairly sure that there will be sufficient equivalent fixed customer identifiers (which would be insufficient by themselves to authorize financial fraud) present to allow merchants to track customer behavior.

 

[cocky jeremy]

That's ok. The next headline with Best Buy in it will be, "Best Buy files for Chapter 11.." anyway.

 

[PRSGuitarist]

RE: Best Buy
It's okay, they'll be out of business soon, anyway.

Edit: Dang! Poster above me beat me to the punch

 

[BruiserB]

These retailers probably hope to 'wing it' by supporting their own (MCX) technology, and not having to pay Apple that small cut, but as you noted, market forces such as the loss of millions of sales may change their mind, once Pay takes off with a large installed customer base of iPhone 6s (and perhaps Watches), iPhone6Ss and beyond.

More than likely they're privately aware that they may have to concede sooner rather than later.

And I don't think the retailer's are giving Apple a "small cut". The retailer will pay MC, Amex, and Visa whatever they normally pay them. The credit card processing companies will then give Apple a cut of their cut. And they are getting something for it...they are getting the knowledge that it is a secure transaction that is less likely to be disputed as fraud.

 

[IJ Reilly]

My understanding is that to support "Apple Pay" the merchant doesn't need to do anything at all specific to Apple, they just need to support Credit or Debit cards with NFC. The software on the iPhone sends data pretending it is a credit card, the NFC reader sends the data for example to Visa, Visa recognises that it is an "Apple Pay" fake credit card and accepts it, and the NFC card reader is happy.

So apparently Walmart and Best Buy don't want to use this. They don't want to upgrade their hardware. Instead I'm supposed to install software on my iPhone, coming from a source that _I_ don't trust.

My prediction: By the end of the year, there will be 80 million iPhones capable of using Apple Pay, plus maybe 80,000 iPhones capable of using that software that Walmart wants you to use.

More like a "virtual" credit card than a "fake" credit card.

All the merchants are going to have to update their hardware, it's really just a matter of the new hardware they choose. Is the Apple Pay system more costly than the alternatives? I'm not sure we know yet.

 

[ptb42]

I wonder if this works like the Wendy's fast food App? I see Wendy's is listed as a member of this group. You swipe on your phone and a temporary 6 digit number comes up that the clerk then types into the terminal. The 6 digit number is only live for 5 minutes. I use this because I've been able to get Wendy's gift cards at a discount and I loaded them into the App.

Can you only use it for gift cards? What about a credit or debit card?

Wendy's promotes the App in signs all over the store. When I tried to use it the first time more than a month after they rolled it out, the whole store staff gathered around the register to watch me pay since I was the first person to use it. In a different store, the clerk asked me for my phone so she could read it easier while she typed it in. I didn't have a problem giving her my phone but her boss came over and started yelling at her saying to never touch a customer's phone!! The manager said "What would have happened if you dropped his phone and broke it??"

The manager was a butthead. That's not something you do in front of a customer. The cashier should have already been trained how to accept the code, and told not to touch the phone.

If you use an electronic boarding pass on your phone, you'll notice that the TSA and the airline personnel don't touch your phone: they point you to set it face down on a reader, or hold it under the handheld reader.

 

[Patriot24]

Hundreds of thousands of iPhones will earn Apple more money than the small percent of sales from Apple pay. Don't kid yourself. The iPhone is apples cash cow. They won't do anything that could hinder sales of it in any way.

This is likely true today. In several years, I believe that Pay could be Apple's top revenue stream.

According to recent reports, Apple will charge card companies and banks transaction fees. During the keynote, they cited the billions of transactions that take place each day. Even if they're only a piece of that pie and only getting a few cents on every transaction, that adds up to ungodly amounts of money in the long-run. Eventually they'll expand the capability to include PayPal-like features (send money to a friend, etc) and likely become a bank of sorts.

There is a lot to play out here, but if they are successful at establishing themselves as the de facto payment method in the U.S. and then abroad, there is no telling what their profits could be a decade from now.

 

[tlevier]

I think one of the places I'll use apple pay the most (once I upgrade to 6Plus2 next year), is Starbucks. Often people order their drink and when they pay in cash, often take a while getting it.

Apple Pay will, hopefully, make the line go quicker, as long as their battery doesn't die and they have to plug it in for it to work

See, Starbucks is actually my conundrum. I already have a Starbucks gift card loaded on my passport that I use for that purpose, which ensures I get the reward stars and free drinks. So, Starbucks will be one place where I'll never use Apple Pay.

 

[aevelasquez]

Their loss? Really? Do you know the volume of sales at Walmart nationwide?

And does opting out of Apple Pay increase that sales volume? No? Does it decrease, even if only marginally? Well, on planet earth we call that a loss.

On a side note, I'd like to meet the guy who said the opportunity cost of picking that app over Apple would be smaller...honestly. Yeah, sure you might be able to appeal to a wider range or smartphone owners, but without the Apple brand, and the (sometimes blind) loyalty people have to it (myself included), I can guarantee you FAR less people are going to be willing to add actual their credit card number to an app who's developer has virtually no track record and who's software offers virtually no biometric payment verification.

 

[ptb42]

Didn't even know they started the chip and pin system yet.

WalMart is enabling the EMV chip readers, store by store.

But, it's not chip and PIN, unless your bank programs the card to require a PIN. US Banks are almost universally programming them for "chip and signature".

It's not the merchant that decides. It's the issuer of the card.