Walmart Pay 'Close to Surpassing' Apple Pay in U.S. Mobile Payments Usage

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    In asking friends who can use Android Pay/Apple Pay why they do not use it, the biggest reason I hear is that it does not work at enough retailers to make it worth it yet. They seem to indicate that at about 75% penetration, they would start using it. I have no idea if that percentage would be the same for the general public, but I am confident that its use will grow much faster as the retailer penetration grows.
  2. Ntombi macrumors 68040


    Jul 1, 2008
    Bostonian exiled in SoCal
    I understand that (though Apple Pay is now accepted at probably 80% of the stores I shop), but the person I quoted called it inconvenient crap. That’s a harsh assessment.
  3. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    Walmart has done a good job at making it worthwhile for its more loyal customers to use it. It will always be harder to use than systems like Android Pay and Apple Pay that get their own buttons (or native UI) until they make their own phone. I would love to know what percentage of their general customer base uses it, and what percentage of their overall dollar volume goes through Walmart Pay. It could be like airline frequent flier programs where 10% of their customers generate 90% of their value, or it could be only used by their most loyal customers who are not their biggest spenders. Not enough data to know.
  4. PinkyMacGodess macrumors 601


    Mar 7, 2007
    Midwest America.
    We have 2. (They tried to build a third one, and the people stopped it. I was amazed) They are both filthy, crowded, and expensive actually. Go to Opensecrets and search for the 'walton' name, and see all the politicians they support with the money they extort off their sheep customers. They are WAY too expensive in who they provide money for. PASS. We have a unionized Meijer and Kroger that might be slightly more expensive, but the choice are better, and their workers are protected from the hosing Walmart management does. AND they both support ApplePay!

    You have to admire Walmart for wanting to be their sheep customer's only source for banking, junk food, crap, and even insurance I heard as a rumor. A one stop fleecing the poor stop.

    This story actually reminds me of the boast that Microsoft made when they said that THEY were the largest gaming source in the world, because of Solitaire and the other 'games' that Windows users have been playing because they were free with the OS. (eyes roll)
  5. kdarling, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

    kdarling macrumors demi-god


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    If so, then the usual method of charging is a per-transaction fee, not a percentage.

    For example, one of the extra expenses banks have to bear with modern smartphone payment systems is that of paying token vaults for token registration and translation.

    Mastercard charges 50 cents to register a new token, 10 cents a month just to keep it alive (talk about greed!) and 2.5 cents each time it's translated to the real account number.

    Yep, as you pointed out, lately mostly under pressure from their customers or their competing banks. But not because they want or need to, on their own.

    Notice how long though it took for any other countries to get on board at all after the US. For example, UK banks not only did not like the fee, but also were not happy about Apple's demands for ongoing reports containing previously proprietary purchasing information. They felt it was a privacy violation.

    Even US banks, who had initially hoped that they'd reap lots of extra charges, soon found out that it was not the boon they had expected. As for smaller banks like credit unions who are already living on tight margins, even the 0.15% is a burden on them.

    The three year initial bank contracts are starting to expire. It'd be interesting to find out if US banks, who now realize Apple needs them more than they need Apple Pay, press for a lower rate.
  6. aarond12 macrumors 65816


    May 20, 2002
    Dallas, TX USA
    Ha! Tell that to the cashier and supervisor that had to get involved when a Walmart Pay attempt I did charged the credit card, but never went through Walmart's system. I got an email from Amex saying that a "card not present" transaction occurred, but Walmart Pay just sat there like nothing happened. What a mess.

    I tried using Walmart Pay yesterday, and the app failed to work properly. I used my Amex instead.

    Tell me again how it works? I've never had Apple Pay not work for me.
  7. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    Again, that is not really what the article says. It says that among adopters, Walmart Pay use has been growing faster than Apple Pay use has. There is no information as to the number of transactions or their dollar value. Without knowing what percentage of Walmart customers use them as their primary (or frequent) retailer, and what percentage of those have registered, we have no way of know what Walmart Pay's continued growth will be.

    Years ago a local TV station broadcast a statistic about the growth of AIDS cases in the city, including projections of future AIDS cases. They made two mistakes: 1) they presumed that the growth rate would continue as it had (not accounting for the campaigns to help prevent transmission) and 2) they did not limit their projections to the projected population of the city (their estimate was that by 2000, every person living in the city would have 3 AIDS cases - i.e. there would be more AIDS cases than people).

    We have no idea if Walmart has grabbed (or is close to grabbing) all the low hanging fruit, or if they are just beginning. In addition, unless they start rolling this out at other retailers (something I think this story is designed to make possible), I do not think the comparison is particularly meaningful even were we to know the number of transactions and their dollar volume.
  8. Compufix macrumors regular


    May 7, 2002
    Square supports NFC/Chip cards with an additional reader available. Yes, it supports Apple Pay.
  9. Baymowe335 macrumors 68020

    Oct 6, 2017
    Probably need to go to a bigger city.
  10. wigby macrumors 65816

    Jun 7, 2007
    How is it kicking butt when it's behind Apple Pay? You're comparing Walmart to itself because they won't allow Apple Pay and others in their stores. It's growing faster than Apple Pay because it was released later and Apple Pay's growth has slowed like all older mobile payment systems have begun to do. Growth always starts fast and plateaus. Unless Walmart gets into other retailers, they will plateau even sooner.
  11. ArneK macrumors regular

    Aug 19, 2015
    Why should a credit card company give you an incentive to use a service where they have to pay apple to do the same as the card they gave you?
  12. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    While that is the impression that the article is trying to foster (perhaps as a precursor to opening the system to other retailers as Amazon has started to do with Amazon Payments), that is not what it says. It does not compare number of transactions, nor dollar volume of transactions, just how much people who already have the system, use it. Even so, while we know that use of Walmart pay among registered users has increased, without knowing what percentage of their customers have registered for it, nor what percentage of their customers can register for it (what percentage have eligible devices), nor what the dollar value of their purchases is, nor how many people who shop there use it as their primary (or frequent) retailer, we have no real way to understand the relative growth and/or value of these systems.

    Fortunately, you are not running Walmart. They are very much worried about online shopping in general and Amazon in particular. That is why they have begun their pick up discount for online purchases. Having just used the system, I think they have a long way to go. When I did not receive the "order is ready" email after waiting a few hours, I contacted their support person and was told that it could take up to 48 hours. Almost every other retailer I have used that offers this (Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowes, and Staples as recent examples) have a one hour guarantee at worst. Second, the pickup location was at the far back of the store. While this benefits them in two ways (increases the chance of impulse purchases and puts it near their back stock area), it makes it much less convenient for the customer. In LA, for many purchases, I could have had it delivered faster than waiting for the order to be ready at Walmart. That is a big problem for them.

    I have no idea what percentage of their retail customers also use them as their primary online retailer, but I would bet that at best they split that business with Amazon. For many younger consumers, online is the first choice and Walmart is not most people's default choice.
  13. e-coli macrumors 68000


    Jul 27, 2002
    Try Chili Granola. It will blow your mind!

    (thank me later)
  14. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    Like you, I use Apple Pay for a large percentage of my transactions (both by dollar value and number of transactions). I understand why you asked your question of the other poster, but my point was that (unrelated to what he says), lack of ubiquity is the primary disincentive for its use. I have heard many people say it was inconvenient by which they meant it was not available often enough for them to always try it.
  15. Phonephreak macrumors 6502a


    Aug 24, 2017
    Here and there
    Are you a teenager. Trying to be obnoxious is kinda immature
  16. Alan Wynn macrumors member

    Sep 13, 2017
    I do not really care how Apple, Google or Samsung get paid by the banks. Changes in clearing fees rarely affect me as a customer. When Senator Durbin pushed through the change that locked rates for debit card transactions, I lost benefits on my debit cards and my bank started charging fees for many other services. What I did not see was lower prices at retail (even for using debit cards).

    That is what the market is all about.

    It will be interesting to see what happens. I like the service as a customer and I do not care enough about my bank to stick with them if they stopped offering it. As I recall, NBC/Universal stopped offering its TV shows to iTunes at one point to try to get better terms. They came back fairly quickly when Apple did not budge.
  17. Phonephreak macrumors 6502a


    Aug 24, 2017
    Here and there
    I understood what he was saying. Maybe you should reread the post.
  18. deanthedev Suspended


    Sep 29, 2017
    Don’t need to. There’s absolutely nothing greedy about a 0.15% cut (which is the worst case scenario as it’s reportedly lower or even 0% in some countries). With all the development & testing Apple does to make Apple Pay work it’s doubtful they make much, if any money on it at all. So no, they’re not greedy.
  19. JRobinsonJr macrumors 6502

    Aug 20, 2015
    Arlington, Texas
    Agreed, with one caveat. Merchant’s should not have to advertise NFC. It should be freakin ENABLED! It’s similar to all of the merchants who have chip-card readers but have the chip reader disabled.

    As much as I believe in the concept of free markets, this is one area where leaving it to merchants who may not even understand why it should be enabled... is just silly.
  20. techwhiz macrumors 6502a

    Feb 22, 2010
    Northern Ca.
    I'll never use Walmart pay or whatever it's called, because I don't shop Walmart.
  21. bobinmurphy macrumors newbie

    Aug 4, 2015
    Agreed. I'm old enough to remember when almost every retailer had their own credit cards and most refused to accept MasterCard, Visa, Diners or Amex. They all lost out to those cards for the same reason. Unless Walmart expands their Walmart Pay to other retailers they're going to learn the same lesson. And as more retailers like Amazon figure out how to effectively compete with Walmart that will happen even sooner.
  22. iapplelove macrumors 601


    Nov 22, 2011
    East Coast USA
    But all you are doing is just assuming, anyone can do that .
  23. NoNothing macrumors 6502

    Aug 9, 2003
    Once again, lets make things up. I do enjoy reading the fiction you write, however, because I think you actually believe it.
  24. Robert.Walter macrumors 65816

    Jul 10, 2012
    I had dialogue with both store managers and Costco corporate ca a year ago, and though there was no official timeline, they believed it would launch in 1Q2017, LoL.

    Some thought it would roll out simultaneously nationwide, others by region.

    Last Mar
    Kudos for your honesty, but really?

    The Apple Store is the best place for a test drive. If you have issues a person will help you.

    Your incentive? How about unhackable transactions.

    I find it rather amazing you could go thru the set up process and then be too embarrassed to use it. These two things don’t compute.

    My 85 y/o mom uses Apple Pay from her watch several times a day.
  25. Chupa Chupa macrumors G5

    Chupa Chupa

    Jul 16, 2002
    What theory? I’m not presenting one. What I wrote was simply facts of how CVS and other companies have been accumulating customer purchase date for decades. They don’t need a proprietary payment system for that. They already have “club” cards for that purpose.

    Proprietary payment systems are established to bypass CC network fees. That CVS turned off NFC only means they had a change of heart and didn’t believe it would lead to revenue growth.

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