Walmart Pay 'Close to Surpassing' Apple Pay in U.S. Mobile Payments Usage

[Alan Wynn]

Ridiculous comparison. 5.1% of one store chains transactions vs 5.5% of many store/restaurant/etc. chains transactions.

It is not even that. It is 5.5% of people who have access to ApplePay use it for most transactions, vs. 5.1% of people who have Walmart Pay. The Walmart exec notes that they are signing up thousands a day. Unfortunately, without knowing what percentage of Walmart customers use Walmart as their primary (or very frequent) retailer and what percentage of them have signed up for it, we cannot even know how meaningful that statistic is. I am an occasional Walmart customer and am unlikely to ever register for the service. The more frequently someone shops there (and the larger the amount one spends) the more likely someone is to use the service.

Compare total successful transactions (by count, by value).

Both numbers would be interesting. It might be that there are more transactions by one, with more money being spent with the other. Until we have these numbers, these comparisons do not tell us enough.

Lets see Walmart allow for customer choice between WalPay, ApplePay, and AndroidPay, and then see where those numbers go.

The real question for Walmart is are they primarily interested in generating more revenue from the most loyal or cutting the friction for other customers (in the hope of making them loyal customers). Until NFC is common there is no real downside to their current approach and plenty of upside. If one is a frequent Walmart customer, they have provided enough extra benefit for using Walmart pay that they may overcome the hassle of registering and using it. For those who are not regular customers, NFC is not yet common enough to make its unavailability a reason for not shopping at Walmart. Once it reaches a large enough percentage of retailers so that I do not need to carry my wallet much of the time, the lack of NFC acceptance will be a problem.

I suggest using only checks or big bags of change at chain stores that do not accept NFC payment methods including both ApplePay and AndroidPay

While I am not sure it would have an impact at a large retailer like Walmart, it is a funny idea. For smaller retailers, talking to the owner is much more likely to win the day. Two of our local non-chain restaurants accept NFC pay. Both have only Apple Pay branding. When most locations are NFC enabled, its use will take off. Until then, it is only the die hards that will use it.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I suspect all integration starts with the store wanting to track the customer and Apple wanting to protect privacy. Apple doesn't budge on some privacy issue and then the talks break down.

ApplePay works so well with the Duane Reade App.

 

[KingslayerG5]

I have a money pouch around my neck that holds like five cards -

Driver's License
Chase Debit
DoorDash Red Card
Postmates Card (rarely use it)
EBT (food stamps!)

I need to full tank my car every 2-3 days. I don't cook, so I eat out everywhere. I used to eat at home with my ex-gf cooking for me, but she would also get lazy for groceries and we would end up eating at the mall or whatever.

You will realize fumbling with your phone to pay stuff and hoping it scans gets annoying af. Those cashiers aren't really trained for that. Just whip out the debit and be done with it. Easy. More accepted than trying to figure out if this mobile payment works here or there.

Still thinking about that kai-yang chicken and some Thai ice tea at Thai BBQ. Yum! I had a Thai ex-gf who hated that place. She thought it was commercialized Thai food. Go to any Thai BBQ and the customers are mostly Filipinos. Thai food is really spicy but Filipinos like sweetness to it.

Don't bother with mobile payments. Even Walmart. Too much fumbling around. What if I'm on a call? Awkward trial and mostly errors right now. Do you really want to hand your brand new iPhone X to some high school kid in some McDonald's or KFC drive-thru just to do Apple Pay?

 

[jweinraub]

Unsurprising. Apple pay is basically Walgreens pay.

Most merchants aren't even sure if and what NFC they support and it seems to rarely be Apple based on waving my phone around.

And small businesses are almost exclusively square these days.

Doesn't Square now support Apple Play with their new NFC dongle since apple got rid of the 3.5 mm port?

 

[iFan]

Definitely.



They're getting there, I think things will speed up even more when the US completes the requirement for chip and signature then finally makes a push for to Chip and PIN.



Definitely there's been lots of movement. It's going a lot quicker than I actually thought it would.



They're definitely very greedy and that comes with a lot of issues as well but I'll save that for another day.



Actually had more to do with the government pushing Chip and PIN to be rolled out countrywide by a certain date. It also help that a lot of the retailers get their terminals plus merchant services from the banks.

So once the mandate was made by the government it was very quick for them to switch out or upgrade terminals firmware.



There is definitely issues there mostly related to shipping unfortunately that's just the way it is in Australia and given the way things are highly dense the population areas were lots of space in between. It makes delivery very difficult. and expensive if you wanted done in a timely manner.

But this is mostly for regional customers people in our capital cities are much better off when it comes to shipping.



We will have to see, Amazon drawers mixed reactions here in the country. But me personally thinks that's got a lot to do with the current incumbents and them trying to protect their current existing business.

Regarding shipping It's probably too early to tell there they are either going to have to make a substantial investment themselves and do it internally or make substantial investment or partnership with another shipping provider or just go with a all out acquisition.

But this really only applies for the regional areas the big cities are fine. But having smart distribution points in regional areas may help with this.

For example if you know you're going to sell one brand of toilet paper moving closer to regional centres for shipping will make things cheaper and quicker.

However Amazon is going to be behind in those type of market in Australia as most of our big grocery retail is the types of places you get toilet paper and other groceries and food items do same day delivery from every local store in every town. Most towns anyway.

These types of food delivery services have been prevalent for at least 2-4 years now and this segment of the market is towards the end of the rollout of this service.

Also other retail is the kind that sell electronics have tried to combat the shipping issue because large items cost money to ship by doing things like click and collect and local deliveries from local stores.

Click and collect is just a fancy term for order online pick up local.



Depends on where you live some areas have extended trading hours big cities for example sunday trading also depends on where you currently live but it's not 24 seven, however certain segments of the market are 24 seven.



Most Australian specially the ones that work retail or hospitality, like the way it currently is as they mostly see a good home work balance and if they choose to work outside the norm they get normally get good penalty rates but the government is working on ruining that as well.

Love all the info and replies! Yes, the grocery stores are probably the one place that is ahead in e-commerce.

You're correct in saying shipping is much easier in the densely populated cities (sydney, melbourne, etc) however even within those areas I found it difficult to run an e-commerce business compared to the US. In the US you have UPS, FedEx and the US Post Office all with highly automated shipping calculation systems - and an ecosystem of third parties to make it easier. These systems also have plug-ins with the big e-commerce platforms like Shopify,BigCommerce, etc. Super, super easy to figure out who will be the cheapest, in real-time, as the customer types in their postal code.

In Australia, it was LOTS of smaller shipping companies who mostly would send over a giant spreadsheet of rates for the year. I partnered with DHL in Australia to try and improve upon this, but then their rates were much higher than local guys unless you were spending 10 million plus on shipping costs annually. Even then, they wanted to use pallets for everything and not as accepting of individual packages like the American guys.

I really, really, miss living in Australia. Going back to visit next month. But to run a business with an online component? Definitely easier in America. To be an employee? Definitely better to be in Australia! No work/life balance in America.

Off-topic, but I found it quite interesting how many successful businesses were run by ex-south africans in Australia. More similar work ethic to Americans and less focused on the work/life balance. Really gives them an advantage, I think.

How far are you from Perth?

 

[NachoGrande]

Apple Pay = NFC = Android Pay. IIRC Apple Pay is all based off the NFC standards so any place that takes NFC will take Apple Pay.

Not true, an example would be CVS they didn't allow apple pay. I shop a tons of places that have the NFC symbol and not of them work with my phone.

The android however does work.

 

[76ShovelHead]

You day will come, Walmart. No one will stop the Amazon steamroller.

Or Wal-Mart will release their own kracken. Imagine orders (even pharmacy) being completed and shipped via drones from your nearest Wal-Mart. It would be much quicker than leaving the amazon warehouse.

 

[itguy06]

Not true, an example would be CVS they didn't allow apple pay. I shop a tons of places that have the NFC symbol and not of them work with my phone.

The android however does work.

You sure? CVS is not listed as a partner of Android Pay:
https://www.android.com/pay/where-to-use/

Googling it, it seems that some CVS's turned back on NFC last year but they are pushing CVS Pay, their QR solution.

I've been using NFC payments since 2014 (Galaxy S5/GoogleWallet) and wherever Apple Pay works, Android Pay works. It's all NFC at the core.

 

[vipergts2207]

Part of the problem with Apple Pay is that it’s not always obvious that it’s accepted. And unless it’s obvious, I’m not going to stand there waving my phone around like an idiot on a card reader that won’t actually accept it. This results in me basically never using it.

 

[Macintoshrumors]

I haven’t shopped at Walmart in eons. I don’t plan to either even though there are 3 in my area

 

[gaximus]

That's my problem with apple pay. Unless I see a sticker saying that it works I don't even try. I can't tell you how many times I looked like an idiot trying to pay with my phone only to find out it doesn't work.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to the McDonalds employee at the drive through window how to use Apple Pay. Several times I'll say, "I want to pay with Apple Pay". and they will just add an apple pi to my order. So even having the sign doesn't mean it'll go flawless.

 

[springsup]

Is Walmart pay directly comparable to Apple Pay though? I mean, yes, both are mobile payment systems, but is Walmart Pay accepted anywhere other than WM? It seems like it's a one-store system whereas Apple Pay is more "universal."

I'm not a regular WM shopper but they are the only place in town that sells Chili Chocolate Granola bars and they are my "crack." So I have to venture in a couple times a year to buy my horde. One thing I noticed that is different than Apple Pay (because it saves WM $ no doubt) is that when you self check out the WM Pay option is the biggest icon. (I don't use it myself -- no reason to).

OTOH when I'm shopping at other stores I almost have to know ahead of time if they accept it. There is typically zero promotion of its availability. And that is a problem because no one wants to look like a dolt trying to tap a console that isn't NFC capable (I've seen a lot of consoles that have the NFC logo but the NFC is actually turned off).

So I think Apple could do a lot better promotion here -- either lowering the rate it gets per charge or offering merchants promotional $. But in exchange require merchants to display an Apple Pay logo on the console or nearby.

This seems like an extension of the US retail industry always using backwards technology. This problem doesn’t exist in Europe. We’ve been using PIN-secured cards for a decade or more (much safer than a signature), and if you see a NFC logo, you can use an NFC card or ApplePay. If a retailer has ever told me that I can’t pay by NFC, it’s always a temporary malfunction with the machine. I’ve never seen a retailer who allows card payments but refuses NFC, even on capable hardware, as a policy decision.

I’m not sure if it’s really Apple’s responsibility to fix this, or even how much they care. WalmartPay is usable in one store in one territory; its driving forces are arrogance and disrespect for their customers’ privacy. Customers will use it if that’s all they have, but overall I think it has basically no impact on ApplePay.

 

[jhuynh]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to the McDonalds employee at the drive through window how to use Apple Pay. Several times I'll say, "I want to pay with Apple Pay". and they will just add an apple pi to my order. So even having the sign doesn't mean it'll go flawless.

Are you telling them when you're ordering or when you get to the window to pay? In Canada I just say credit at the window, they hand me the terminal, and I tap my iPhone to the reader.

 

[deanthedev]

Heck, we pay even more percentage in local sales taxes. So what? Has nothing to do with what Apple charges.

Unlike the credit card networks and banks, there are no Apple servers involved during a contactless transaction. (*)

So yeah, anything over 0.0% is greedy. And in many places around the world, such as the EU, bank fees are capped at 0.22% or so. No way can they pay Apple 0.15% and only get a 0.07% remainder. That's why we didn't see mass quick adoption of Apple Pay by those banks. Apple had to lower its demand enormously first.

Moreover, contactless fraud is only about 0.007% in chip'd countries. So there's no incentive to pay Apple twenty times that for more user security either. That's partly why Australian banks are holding back. Why should Apple profit off the work the banks did to add chips and NFC payments in Oz?

(*) Now where a fee DOES make sense, is with online website payments where Apple DOES get involved. Fraud is huge there, and a validated user is much more valuable.



We get that some of you will defend Apple no matter what, even if they sell us as products to our own banks .

Seriously, my thought at the time was that a kickback would give people an incentive to buy an iPhone over another device.

However, right now in the US, if you're really serious about wanting to do contactless payments, your best choice is to buy a Samsung phone with its multi-mode contactless abilities.

All that typing to say nothing. A significant number of your posts always seem to weave together Apple and Greed without any factual data to back it up.

 

[gaximus]

Are you telling them when you're ordering or when you get to the window to pay? In Canada I just say credit at the window, they hand me the terminal, and I tap my iPhone to the reader.

I tell them at the pay window. They don't hand the terminal here in the U.S. you hand them your card. So I have to explain, hand me the terminal, and have it ready to swipe a card.

 

[Ntombi]

Not a surprise since I never use apple pay unless it's online staring at me. I haven't used this crap at a store since discover ran their promotion. It's way too inconvenient. It's up to Apple to make it worthwhile to use. Open up that wallet and start offering rewards Apple..

What makes Apple Pay inconvenient to you?

I find it super easy and convenient, and I prefer it to any other method, so I’m interested in why you dislike it so much.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Unsurprising. Apple pay is basically Walgreens pay.

Most merchants aren't even sure if and what NFC they support and it seems to rarely be Apple based on waving my phone around.

And small businesses are almost exclusively square these days.

McDonald’s takes Apple Pay, my gas station does, and my barber does. It’s definitely growing year over year. I didn’t go out of my way to find places that do either. It works at a lot more places than people realize.

The only places I wish did are my grocery store (come on Kroger), Costco, and Target. I rarely shop Walmart.

 

[alphaod]

Also, if you get hounded by the checkers at the exits, good luck explaining to them why you don’t have a receipt because you used Walmart Pay

I always ignore them. They have no right to stop me.

 

[steviec]

Well we know this "study" wasn't peer reviewed. Walmart Pay is accepted in Walmart and Walmart and Walmart... Apple Pay is accepted in many stores. This is a comparison of two very different things. If Walmart Pay branches out and is accepted at other stores then we can start to make the comparison.

Walmart also announced that 3rd quarter 2017 sales of Cheetos far exceeded what Apple has sold in the previous two years.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Is Apple Pay even accepted at Walmart stores?

 

[DesterWallaboo]

Is Apple Pay even accepted at Walmart stores?

Nope.... they use their own system only.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Unlike the credit card networks and banks, there are no Apple servers involved during a contactless transaction. (*)

I am curious about this. Since I started using Apple Pay, the card numbers on several of my cards were changed (usually because of retailer breaches). In most cases, I did not have to update the card in my Apple Wallet, it happened automatically. Once it happened with my AmEx while I was traveling over a holiday weekend and it enabled me to continue using the card (in Apple Pay enabled locations). While I understand that Apple servers are not used on the transaction side, they are used for delivering notifications for transactions made using many of my Apple Pay enabled cards (even for non-Apple Pay transactions). I would also guess that Apple's servers must also be involved for the card number auto-updating.

Moreover, contactless fraud is only about 0.007% in chip'd countries. So there's no incentive to pay Apple twenty times that for more user security either. That's partly why Australian banks are holding back. Why should Apple profit off the work the banks did to add chips and NFC payments in Oz?

It seems that some banks disagree with your view and have adopted Apple Pay. I am completely happy to let the market decide and I expect that if customers in Australia like Apple Pay enough to switch banks, other banks will add it. It is a great way for a smaller bank to get noticed.

We get that some of you will defend Apple no matter what, even if they sell us as products to our own banks .

Seriously, my thought at the time was that a kickback would give people an incentive to buy an iPhone over another device.

I am not "defending Apple" by any means. Your argument is that a consumer side incentive would get people to buy iPhones (you also seem to argue that it would spur Apple Pay use). I would be happy were Apple to provide an incentive, but give that they take 0.15%, even if they offered half of that (0.075%) it would not be meaningful enough to get me to switch ecosystems. Once retailer adoption is large enough, it might make sense for Apple to offer introductory bonuses (as credit card companies do) to get people to use Apple Pay.

However, right now in the US, if you're really serious about wanting to do contactless payments, your best choice is to buy a Samsung phone with its multi-mode contactless abilities.

No question, if mobile pay were my primary reason for choosing my devices, Samsung would be the best choices. Unfortunately for them, it is not even in the top three reasons for picking my phone. If I was an Android user, it might be a factor in choosing Samsung over another brand, but it is not anywhere near enough reason for me to change ecosystems.

 

[NoNothing]

Well we know this "study" wasn't peer reviewed. Walmart Pay is accepted in Walmart and Walmart and Walmart... Apple Pay is accepted in many stores. This is a comparison of two very different things. If Walmart Pay branches out and is accepted at other stores then we can start to make the comparison.

Exactly. What this study says is:
Walmart Pay is about to pass Apple Pay usage when you compare usage of Walmart Pay at Walmart and Apple Pay at all other retailers. So while 5.1% of users use Walmart Pay at Walmart, 5.5% of users are using Apple Pay at all other vendors combined.

What a bogus study.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Walmart Pay is ok. I once got logged out when I tried to buy something. So I had to scramble to enter my account info: no issues with Apple Pay there.

Also, if you get hounded by the checkers at the exits, good luck explaining to them why you don’t have a receipt because you used Walmart Pay

Do they run the highlighter down your iPhone screen?

 

[NoNothing]

I was so happy to set up Apple Pay 3 years ago when I bought my 6 plus.

But sadly 3 years later I can’t even remember the last time I went somewhere that accepted Apple Pay.

Maybe not Apples fault but disappointing just the same.

I use it daily. It is excepted at most little eateries, burger king, walgreens, vending machines, every gas station in the neighborhood.

I don't know where you live, but in AZ, Apple Pay is becoming pervasive.