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In the US Apple was counting on the fact that because of new Visa regulations that went into effect in October 2016 all companies where going to have to upgrade their terminals. Almost all new terminals manufactured have the required NFC chips. In the US if a company does not have a chip terminal, Visa is holding the company liable for any fraud that occurs. Before last October as long as the signature on the credit card receipt matched the one on file with the card issuing bank, the company that took payment for the card would not be held liable for fraudulent transactions.

Part of the security in the new chip based card (and Apple Pay) is the actual account number is not transmitted to the retailer. A one time use number is sent instead. This makes it very difficult for companies to store your credit card number and develop a lifetime purchase history for you. What Apple was not counting on was that this purchase history data was so important to the retailers that they would decide to accept the liability shift for fraudulent transactions instead of giving up this purchase history data. Even when the retailer has upgraded the terminals they are turning of the chip reader and the NFC capabilities to preserve your purchase history data.
Chip isn’t as anonymous as Apple Pay which is why Walmart can still use chip and not Apple Pay
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Yeah, this was a huge shock to me when I moved to the US - Why does nowhere have NFC payments? Why don't chip readers require a pin when using a credit card? Why can't I go on my bank's website and transfer money to my friend's account for free? Why is there a fee to use an ATM that isn't owned by my specific bank?

The US is ahead of the curve in a lot of areas, but personal banking is definitely not one of them.
I send money to friends without fees all the time. Use the Zelle feature.
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Yep, it's comparing a single store method with a multi-store method. It's a stat that's mostly only of interest to the cardless payment industry.



When it was first revealed that Apple was taking a percentage of each contactless purchase for DOING NOTHING during one, my first thought was that "Whoa, they're going to offer Apple users a kickback and that's going to sell zillions of iPhones!". But no, it was just typical Apple greed.



You guys are thinking backwards. USE the system to your advantage instead. Join all the discount cards, etc. Heck, I save hundreds of dollars a year with my CVS card alone, much less my supermarket member cards.

You're going to get ads no matter what. And your bank STILL KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE DOING, which is infinitely more critical to your life than a store knowing you bought something (so they can offer you incentives).

You see, the store is just going to send you ads and coupons. Big whoop. Actually useful!

But the bank is going to look at when and where you are spending your money, and adjust your credit accordingly. E.g. if you buy liquor in the middle of the day, which do you think is more important: that the store might send you a coupon, or that the bank might think you've lost your job?



The banking industry does not want perfectly secure payments. They make a ton of money by charging for taking the risk associated with current cards. They're already taking heat from Congress for keeping the same rates even as chip cards roll out.



Actually, Canada took many years to roll out contactless payments. With far more banks and POS terminals, then using Canada's timeline, it would take literally decades for the US to switch over. But it won't.



Note: it's not a one time account number. It stays the same. Eventually retailers will match it up to you, and it wouldn't be surprising if there aren't already places that sell and share that matchup info. Heck, they did it with MAC addresses when Apple removed the device id from advertisers.



Yep.
Also Canadian terminals are owned by a few banks, TD, Moneris, Chase etc.

But with US, large retailers use terminals fully integrated in with their POS systems. In Canada it’s easy for them to roll out en masse, US, not so much
 
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I’m in the UK. No idea why you Americans are so far behind with the times. I would say at least 80 to 90% of my monthly spend if not more is with Apple Pay. Everyone and their mother has a terminal over here. Corner shops, buses car parks coke machines whatever. As long as your bank card is supporting Apple Pay just slap it on any reader anywhere even if they don’t have an Apple Pay sticker anywhere. It’s just not a problem. I’m almost to the point of not using cash anywhere.
I’m in the US, and never ever ever use cash.

I do use my cards and I have about 80% Apple Pay usage. It isn’t nearly as bad as most people make it out to be.
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I always ignore them. They have no right to stop me.
Good luck saying that to POLICE OFFICERS! Here in AZ, Walmart literally uses Phoenix Police at the door checking receipts.
 
What theory? I’m not presenting one. What I wrote was simply facts of how CVS and other companies have been accumulating customer purchase date for decades. They don’t need a proprietary payment system for that. They already have “club” cards for that purpose.

They use their club cards to accumulate data on those that register, but many retailers also track credit card usage for those who do not register.

Proprietary payment systems are established to bypass CC network fees. That CVS turned off NFC only means they had a change of heart and didn’t believe it would lead to revenue growth.

Given that, unlike Target's card that links directly to one's bank account, Walmart Pay only takes credit cards, debit cards, pre-paid cards and gift cards, they are not bypassing the credit card interchange fees. CVS turned off NFC because they had partnered with MCX for a proprietary system that they later abandoned.

Walmart's goal seems to be to make parts of their shopping experience better in order to encourage people shop there vs. other retailers. That is why they offer their automatic price matching and coupon clipping services. They store customer's information on their servers, rather than on device.
 
They have ApplePay at Costco in Canada if you're paying with debit (not their MasterCard) and the bill is under $200. I thought it was similar in the States.
Costco only has a Visa card. They have only regular chip card readers but NFC doesnt work- at least not right now. They said the NFC readers will turn on soon.
 
I had dialogue with both store managers and Costco corporate ca a year ago, and though there was no official timeline, they believed it would launch in 1Q2017, LoL.

Some thought it would roll out simultaneously nationwide, others by region.

Last Mar


Kudos for your honesty, but really?

The Apple Store is the best place for a test drive. If you have issues a person will help you.

Your incentive? How about unhackable transactions.

I find it rather amazing you could go thru the set up process and then be too embarrassed to use it. These two things don’t compute.

My 85 y/o mom uses Apple Pay from her watch several times a day.

I'm sorry but in my experience people look at you funny when you try to use a phone or a watch to pay for something. You know they're thinking "wow, you're cool" and that's even when it works. Most of the time there's complications or errors with the terminals. Now you've got a line of people behind you wondering why some nerd is holding them up. Forget that, cash or card is how things are supposed to be paid. They always work, and it's much faster.

Look, I've set it up for the off chance I might, might think about trying it again. But until it works everywhere, I don't see it gaining any traction with me.

Also I'm happy for your mom.
 
Why should a credit card company give you an incentive to use a service where they have to pay apple to do the same as the card they gave you?

The answer is simple: Apple Pay is a secure payment system. The incentive is there because increased usage of AP leads to fewer payouts due to fraudulent usage.
 
If only Apple would incentivize companies to switch to NFC faster. They're just hoping that companies adopt NFC because users want it, but clearly this isn't happening fast enough.

It would also be great if Apple used just a small portion of their profits to create an incentive for consumers, like getting iTunes credit for ever X amount of money spent or transactions made. Samsung Pay and Android Pay both have similar promotions. The problem is corporations aren't willingly switching to NFC just because a very small user base want it.
That isn't really needed if they would simply use a system similar to Samsung Pay that works with almost any existing card reader.
 
That isn't really needed if they would simply use a system similar to Samsung Pay that works with almost any existing card reader.

I disagree, there’s lots of places where Samsung pay still doesn’t work. And the process isn’t as seamless as it sounds.
 
You’re embarrassed to be in the 21st century?

I agree with you 100%, embarrassed??? I use Apple Pay at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Bashas (grocery store), Foot Locker, Walgreens, Circle K (gas station), Macy's, Jamba Juice, McDonald's, Apple Store, mom and pop's that use Square, etc. I can use Apple Pay at probably 70% of the places I shop or visit and it's 10 times faster than using a credit card reader.
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I'm sorry but in my experience people look at you funny when you try to use a phone or a watch to pay for something. You know they're thinking "wow, you're cool" and that's even when it works. Most of the time there's complications or errors with the terminals. Now you've got a line of people behind you wondering why some nerd is holding them up. Forget that, cash or card is how things are supposed to be paid. They always work, and it's much faster.

Look, I've set it up for the off chance I might, might think about trying it again. But until it works everywhere, I don't see it gaining any traction with me.

Also I'm happy for your mom.

I've used Apple Pay hundred's of times and only once did it not work. It's 10 times faster than a credit card reader so I am pretty sure the only thing people are thinking is "Wow, wish I had one of those too." Plus, they don't ask for your zip code after the transaction which stores sell to mail spammers. There is literally no reason to not use Apple Pay, the benefits are all positive. I went for a bike ride the other day and left my phone and wallet home. Paid for lunch with my Watch. Simple.
 
It’s such a different situation here in Canada. NFC is pretty much standard now, I use my Apple Watch to pay almost everywhere, but Wal-Mart is one of the only places that doesn’t do NFC payments. Wal-Mart pay doesn’t even exist here, they still use the chip method.
 
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I’m in the US, and never ever ever use cash.

Other than the occasional parking meter, I rarely use cash.

I do use my cards and I have about 80% Apple Pay usage. It isn’t nearly as bad as most people make it out to be.

For me: Baskin Robbins, Best Buy, B&H Photo Video, Chevron, Chick-fil-A, Dunkin Donuts, Foot Locker, Jersey Mike's, Macy's, McDonald's, MGM Resorts, Nike, Panera, Pep Boys, PetCo, PetSmart, Popeye's, Sprouts, Staples, Trader Joe's, Walgreen's, and Whole Foods (as well as some non-chain local places, cover a big part of my needs.

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Good luck saying that to POLICE OFFICERS! Here in AZ, Walmart literally uses Phoenix Police at the door checking receipts.
I have done exactly that in many places. I find that cops are the least likely to say anything if I just say "no thanks" as I walk past. :)
 
I'm sorry but in my experience people look at you funny when you try to use a phone or a watch to pay for something. You know they're thinking "wow, you're cool" and that's even when it works. Most of the time there's complications or errors with the terminals. Now you've got a line of people behind you wondering why some nerd is holding them up. Forget that, cash or card is how things are supposed to be paid. They always work, and it's much faster.

Look, I've set it up for the off chance I might, might think about trying it again. But until it works everywhere, I don't see it gaining any traction with me.

Also I'm happy for your mom.

It sounds like you need to talk to a professional about your social anxiety issues.
 
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I'm sorry but in my experience people look at you funny when you try to use a phone or a watch to pay for something.

I am a bit confused. You stated that you have never used Apple Pay, but you know how people look at you when you use your watch to pay? Again, while even if that was true in stores where it is rare, it certainly would not be true at the Apple Store with the employee who is dealing just with you and has no real line.

You know they're thinking "wow, you're cool" and that's even when it works. Most of the time there's complications or errors with the terminals.

Again, I do not understand - you have never used Apple Pay, but there are always complications and errors using it?


Now you've got a line of people behind you wondering why some nerd is holding them up. Forget that, cash or card is how things are supposed to be paid. They always work, and it's much faster.

I have had problems with my real credit card in stores as much or more than I have with Apple Pay. I travel a great deal and do a lot of purchases for events, so they often get flagged for fraud. That rarely happens for me with Apple Pay. It is also quite a bit faster than Chip and Sign is.[/quote]
 
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I'm sorry but in my experience people look at you funny when you try to use a phone or a watch to pay for something. You know they're thinking "wow, you're cool" and that's even when it works. Most of the time there's complications or errors with the terminals. Now you've got a line of people behind you wondering why some nerd is holding them up. Forget that, cash or card is how things are supposed to be paid. They always work, and it's much faster.

You have no idea how this view appears from the UK. It’s like looking at something out of the Stone Age. Literally everything has NFC here - so when someone pays cash or uses a card in the traditional way it’s actually irritating as it’s significantly slower than contactless or Apple Pay.

I can’t recall a single occasion that Apple Pay hasn’t worked, even for transactions of hundreds of pounds.

Most days I don’t even take my wallet with me when I go out. My phone and watch is all that is needed! Secure, fast, it works everywhere and it’s as anonymous as you’ll get with a digital transaction - why wouldn’t anyone want that.
 
Not a surprise since I never use apple pay unless it's online staring at me. I haven't used this crap at a store since discover ran their promotion. It's way too inconvenient. It's up to Apple to make it worthwhile to use. Open up that wallet and start offering rewards Apple..
Inconvenient? What has happened to our society where holding your phone next to a payment terminal is too burdensome?
 
Do you like Wal-Mart tracking your every purchase and selling that information to third parties so they can show you ads? Because that’s why Wal-Mart and CVS refuse to use Apple Pay; it has nothing to do with helping the consumer and everything to do with Apple not allowing them to make more money off you spending money.

You do understand that if you do any financial transaction in the USA a time, location, and value of your financial transactions need to be given to your card provider. A merchant the size of Walmart can just use data to data brokers to Data Match the transaction. Apple Pay cant stop that.

No, it is not about you and if you bought a box of Cheerios. It is about the transaction fees - They do not take ANY 3rd party wallet. There is no extra fee for them when you use their own service.
 
Well obviously, for Walmart "CurrentC" wasn't a bad route to go. Despite the amazing criticism on this forum. But Walmart is a completely different beast than others who were a member of that consortium.
 
Well obviously, for Walmart "CurrentC" wasn't a bad route to go. Despite the amazing criticism on this forum. But Walmart is a completely different beast than others who were a member of that consortium.

This. Walmart is practically the equivalent of a country all by itself. So they can do their own currency :)

Not that it's unusual for stores to have their own special apps, anyway.

It's pretty much as if Apple itself had their own checkout app, that could only be used at their stores, that had oh say, a special "Express Checkout" feature or something.

Oh. Wait.
 
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You have no idea how this view appears from the UK. It’s like looking at something out of the Stone Age. Literally everything has NFC here - so when someone pays cash or uses a card in the traditional way it’s actually irritating as it’s significantly slower than contactless or Apple Pay.

I can’t recall a single occasion that Apple Pay hasn’t worked, even for transactions of hundreds of pounds.

Most days I don’t even take my wallet with me when I go out. My phone and watch is all that is needed! Secure, fast, it works everywhere and it’s as anonymous as you’ll get with a digital transaction - why wouldn’t anyone want that.

Must be interesting times when you hand your phone over to the waiter after a business lunch. This argument holds no water - any city I've been for work - from Tokyo, to Madrid, to London to NYC (where I live) It is always the same. That little ancient plastic card is the true fire way of always having access to your money for a service/product.
 
You do understand that if you do any financial transaction in the USA a time, location, and value of your financial transactions need to be given to your card provider. A merchant the size of Walmart can just use data to data brokers to Data Match the transaction. Apple Pay cant stop that.

No, it is not about you and if you bought a box of Cheerios. It is about the transaction fees - They do not take ANY 3rd party wallet. There is no extra fee for them when you use their own service.

Except that with Pay the merchant doesn’t get your card number and thus couldn’t match anything. If I bought a box of Cheerios at Wal-Mart with Pay perhaps the store could figure out that SOMEONE purchased a box of Cheerios at x time on y date with z Visa, but they would have no way of figuring out my identity or how to push Cheerios ads at me later. That’s a huge selling point of Pay and a big reason certain stores won’t adopt it.
 
You have no idea how this view appears from the UK. It’s like looking at something out of the Stone Age.

That's the way I feel about chip & PIN requiring a PIN !

It's so much more luxurious just remembering to scribble a "signature". It's like being super rich and trusted to pay the bill, instead of being treated like a probable thief.

:D

Most days I don’t even take my wallet with me when I go out. My phone and watch is all that is needed!

Okay, serious response: at this time, not taking a wallet simply isn't an option for most adults in the USA. That's because we all drive and we all currently need to carry a driver's license.
 
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