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Not going to wait for adoption rate for these mobile payments to go up. Usually end using debit.

What if the cashier drops your phone in a drive-thru? They're probably trained for swiping a card but not holding your phone and scanning it.

What if some hole-in-the-wall restaurant that offers really good food wants CASH ONLY? I have a mechanic for my car who changes my oil who prefers cash.

Debit > Mobile payments

You can get money from an ATM using debit. Mobile payments just end up secondary and only useful if you left your debit at home.

Novelty wears off when you realize debit is like 97% accepted. Samsung Pay is 85%. And Apple Pay and Android Pay are below 50% and below 10% to restaurants where I eat my lunch.

Craving to eat some Original Thai BBQ chicken (S1) with that sauce at Cerritos now. Mmm mmm good. I know Samsung Pay might be accepted but not Apple's.

MST > NFC

What if the cashier drops your phone in a drive-thru? They're probably trained for swiping a card but not holding your phone and scanning it.

1) The drive thrus I've seen that do have them (like Starbucks) are mounted on the wall just below the Window, or on the counter just inside the Window. You never hand over your phone.

What if some hole-in-the-wall restaurant that offers really good food wants CASH ONLY? I have a mechanic for my car who changes my oil who prefers cash.

2) How does that have anything to do with Debit vs Apple Pay? Debit is also *not* cash.

Debit > Mobile payments

3) In what way? Availability? Sure. Security? No.

Novelty wears off when you realize debit is like 97% accepted. Samsung Pay is 85%. And Apple Pay and Android Pay are below 50% and below 10% to restaurants where I eat my lunch.

4) Maybe in the US. But in other parts of the world, where they actually have NFC terminals everywhere, you can use Apple Pay in nearly every location, and it's awesome. Higher adoption rates in the US would be great, and more and more I see businesses shifting this way. Walmart trying to "roll their own solution" which in my opinion, is inferior to Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, and Google Pay, only harms adoption of a good, workable standard.
 
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Wow brings back some memories. What actually happened was stuff like Bluetooth was indeed built in to the phones in the US too but the carriers had the manufacturers software disable this kind of stuff because they wanted to be able to nickel and dime you for everything they could. If Verizon couldn’t figure out a way to charge you money to use Bluetooth (or whatever) they would just have it disabled.

You almost forget just how absolutely awful the mobile industry was before Apple came in 10 years ago.

Like Intel back in the day.... making a 486DX or 486SX (if i'm remembering the designation correctly).. i remember reading that they were both the same circuit board... but on one they intentionally cut a line to disable part of the circuit and slow it down... so that they could charge more for the fully functional one...
 
I'm not going to read all 195 comments, but hopefully the point has already been made that the comparison to Apple Pay was: % of shoppers who use Walmart Pay at Walmart VS % of shoppers who use Apple Pay for ALL shopping. And of course Apple Pay is excluded from being used at the number 1 retailer locations.

That's like me saying "Electric cars are more commonly used than gas cars" (when you only consider the cars in my own cul de sac of 4 homes, of which 4 of 4 homes have electric cars)
 
Walmart Pay is ok. I once got logged out when I tried to buy something. So I had to scramble to enter my account info: no issues with Apple Pay there.

Also, if you get hounded by the checkers at the exits, good luck explaining to them why you don’t have a receipt because you used Walmart Pay

That would definitely bother me. I feel so awkward carrying goods around a store without proof that I previously owned it or just purchased it!
 
The Chief is hanging around my MPB. I was considering giving him some time off when this giraffe walked into the bar asking if there were any job openings. I saw it as a kind of a synchronous moment and hired her on the spot.
What a nice guy, hiring a giraffe looking for work!
Please send my regards to the chief.
 
Not a surprise since I never use apple pay unless it's online staring at me. I haven't used this crap at a store since discover ran their promotion. It's way too inconvenient. It's up to Apple to make it worthwhile to use. Open up that wallet and start offering rewards Apple..

Why is it inconvenient? I tap my watch and off I go. Works great. It's just a matter of learning who takes it. Don't ask, just try it. Often times the cashier will look in wonder at what you are doing. Sometimes it won't work. If it doesn't, move on and grab your card. If it does, you will look like a wizard. Wait a few months and try again later. It's pretty easy to recall the places that you have tried it and the ones that work. Once I find one that does, I use it all the time.
 
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I try to use Apple Pay everywhere just to be obnoxious. And it turns out more time than not it DOES work. The exception seems to be at places where the CC needs to be swiped through an ancient reader bolted to the POS computer monitor.

Should I try to use Walmart pay at Trader Joe's or Whole Foods?
I use it at trader joes
 
Yep, it's comparing a single store method with a multi-store method. It's a stat that's mostly only of interest to the cardless payment industry.

Since we discussed this in another thread, I have been trying to find two additional statistics that would make this information much more useful. How many transactions are made with each system, and what is the dollar value? To say that 5.5% of iPhone users with iPhone 6 or greater use it whenever they can vs. 5.1% of Walmart users that have it use it, vs. 3.3% of Samsung users with Samsung Pay vs. 1.8% with Android users that could use Android pay (the statistic from Pymts.com you referenced) does not really tell me much.

The other statistic that would be interesting is what percentage of Walmart customers use Walmart as their primary retailer. For those that shop at Walmart often, the hassle of enrolling in Walmart Pay is worth it. For me as a casual Walmart shopper (I go about once a quarter) it is not worth it.

I do wonder if Walmart's goal in getting the Bloomberg article placed is that they are considering rolling Walmart pay out to other retailers the way that Amazon is starting to do, as was their original MCX idea.

But no, it was just typical Apple greed.

We get that you do not like Apple, but offering retail customers an incentive to use Apple Pay would not be the best way to increase its use, and would mostly just pay people who already use it. The biggest reason people do not use any of the NFC payment systems here in the U.S. is lack of ubiquity. Apple would be better served spending its money to gain retailer adoption and encourage retailer Apple Pay branding.

Actually, Canada took many years to roll out contactless payments. With far more banks and POS terminals, then using Canada's timeline, it would take literally decades for the US to switch over. But it won't.

The speed of this transition is what will have the biggest impact on adoption. The faster it goes, the more chance Apple Pay has of success, the slower it is, the more systems like Walmart pay (and smaller proprietary systems like the one used by Blaze Pizza as an example) have a chance.

You and others have often noted that "Merchant X is not adopting Apple Pay, but they have simply enabled NFC transactions". Apple has done a much better job of getting NFC enabled merchants to note that they take Apple Pay then Google has done with Android Pay. Apple also benefits from its store employees supporting it when they help customers set up new iPhones (both during upgrades and migrations from Android devices).
 
Ridiculous comparison. 5.1% of one store chains transactions vs 5.5% of many store/restaurant/etc. chains transactions.

Compare total successful transactions (by count, by value).

Lets see Walmart allow for customer choice between WalPay, ApplePay, and AndroidPay, and then see where those numbers go.

I suggest using only checks or big bags of change at chain stores that do not accept NFC payment methods including both ApplePay and AndroidPay :)
 
This is just trying to make Walmart Pay seem like its being used. I have a store next to me called Oliver's Tap. They have their own payment/phone system as well. Guess what ?

Oliver's Tap Mobile Payment solution is used by 100% of the people who shop there. Hence, it is better than Walmart Pay and Apple Pay put together ! Make me a stock analyst too please.

mainomega, when you become our "stock analyst" You'll also be able to do your research on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplePay/comments/7a616f/anyone_using_walmart_pay/

In my 3rd world country, Apple Pay is accepted at every POS with NFC support. Love it to say the least!

That's because the Americans are so far behind.

Do you really want to hand over your phone to the drive-thru cashier to scan it?

Outside the US they just hand you the terminal through the window most drive-through's have new wireless terminals which they've had for many years.

I know it has already been noted but it is such a different story in UK (especially here in London). I use ApplePay for about 99% of all my day 2 day transactions and is so much easier; hardly take my wallet out with me. We can use ApplePay on the public transport systems as well (which is a god send when i forget my pass).

I'm 100% Apple Pay here in Australia. No physical cards anymore and no cash. And also no issues regarding acceptance.

Most NFC payment system still don't work with Apple pay. definitely not scared, but definitely difficult.

Apple Pay = NFC = Android Pay. IIRC Apple Pay is all based off the NFC standards so any place that takes NFC will take Apple Pay.

They definitely should if the terminal supports contactless payment and the card scheme Visa or MasterCard, Apple Pay should work there is no way for the merchant to turn it off without turning off contactless payment's for everyone.
 
Unsurprising. Apple pay is basically Walgreens pay.

Most merchants aren't even sure if and what NFC they support and it seems to rarely be Apple based on waving my phone around.

And small businesses are almost exclusively square these days.


how is Apple pay Walgreens pay?
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I avoid Walmart at all costs.
there ya go....that's my thought too
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Why is it inconvenient? I tap my watch and off I go. Works great. It's just a matter of learning who takes it. Don't ask, just try it. Often times the cashier will look in wonder at what you are doing. Sometimes it won't work. If it doesn't, move on and grab your card. If it does, you will look like a wizard. Wait a few months and try again later. It's pretty easy to recall the places that you have tried it and the ones that work. Once I find one that does, I use it all the time.

someone who doesn't want to like it, won't like it. You can lead them to water....
 
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mainomega, when you become our "stock analyst" You'll also be able to do your research on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplePay/comments/7a616f/anyone_using_walmart_pay/



That's because the Americans are so far behind.



Outside the US they just hand you the terminal through the window most drive-through's have new wireless terminals which they've had for many years.



I'm 100% Apple Pay here in Australia. No physical cards anymore and no cash. And also no issues regarding acceptance.





They definitely should if the terminal supports contactless payment and the card scheme Visa or MasterCard, Apple Pay should work there is no way for the merchant to turn it off without turning off contactless payment's for everyone.
As an American who also used to live in Australia, you are absolutely correct in saying the US banking/credit card systems are far behind. The Australian banking system is one of the most profitable in the world, and used that power/leverage to install contactless at a higher rate than any other country. Bravo to them. It was a pleasure to bank there (and live there.)

On the other hand, I had the pleasure to sit in on high level bank meetings for top executives within Australia, and your e-commerce is about 10-15 years behind America. The logistics of shipping around Australia is horrible compared to America and it makes it difficult to offer proper e-commerce solutions. Perhaps Amazon launch will change that. Late night shopping? Malls closing at 5:30pm? Chemist closed on sundays? These things would be unheard of in America. I missed the convenience factor while living there.

Pros and cons to every country!

On the bright side, NFC has gotten a thousand times more prevalent in the states in the past 12 months. I think it'll catch up eventually.
 
This thread is too US-centric. If we go around Europe, NFC points are ubiquitous. They accept Apple Pay even if it doesn't say Apple Pay on them. Who gives a flying fig about what Walmart can accomplish, within their own chain. There's a massive world outside Walmart, and Apple Pay works everywhere in that world, wherever there is NFC (unless its stupid CVS...).

Most people STILL don't feel comfortable using any kind of electronic payment. I know one chick who works for an IT security company and EVEN SHE doesn't get it. Daft, but people just aren't used to it yet. But its changing. Small stores, with third party systems like Square, seem to be taking Apple Pay again, if the store has the appropriate dongle.

I don't see how Walmart can win this. Not in the long term.
 
I really wanted to try it for the first time yesterday at the Apple Store when I bought the case for my iPhone X. But I thought it would be too embarrassing to even attempt it so I just paid with the CC.

Slightly off topic, but do you know that if you buy accessories in an Apple Store you can just 'serve yourself', pay in the Apple Store app and just walk out of the store with your purchase - no need to interact with anyone or physically pay by CC, ApplePay or anything.
 
Not a surprise since I never use apple pay unless it's online staring at me. I haven't used this crap at a store since discover ran their promotion. It's way too inconvenient. It's up to Apple to make it worthwhile to use. Open up that wallet and start offering rewards Apple..

curious on why you feel it's inconvenient? I use my iPhone to pay for most things I purchase not. I love it, can basically leave my wallet at home if I wanted. Phone is usually already out. place phone beside reader and hold my thumb on the Touch ID. extremely easy and fast. much faster than pulling out my wallet and get why card out.
 
I use it at Duane Reade, cabs and lots of local coffee houses and clothing shops.

The article is a big stretch. Why isnt Apple following up on retailer integration efforts. It feels like they start these software initiatives and then disappears.
Sure take a look at Car Play, Apple Music, etc, most people still don't even know about these! Apples marketing team just isn't there anymore. There are so many iPhones I work on that aren't even signed into an iCloud account because "they don't know how"
 
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I think if other grocery stores would be incentivized to take Apple Pay, I'm sure that would change. I only go to Walmart as a last resort. I've never even given Walmart Pay the time of day, but apparently I'm one of the few who hasn't. I use Apple Pay all day long, anywhere and everywhere I can.

That is a challenge. I haven't used Walmart Pay. I do use Apple Pay - occasionally. Problem I have is for those stores I know that take it, it doesn't work all the time. Love Whole Foods - shop there weekly. Apple Pay, when I use it, works maybe 75% of the time there. Been that way for a while now.
Overall I find old fashioned is consistent - aka convenient.
 
I've been using Walmart pay a lot since getting the iPhone X. Face ID makes it really easy. I just go to the self-checkout, the iPhone scans my face, I scan the code on the screen, and it's ready to go.
a lot? How often have you been to Walmart since FRIDAY?
 
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This thread is too US-centric. If we go around Europe, NFC points are ubiquitous. They accept Apple Pay even if it doesn't say Apple Pay on them. Who gives a flying fig about what Walmart can accomplish, within their own chain. There's a massive world outside Walmart, and Apple Pay works everywhere in that world, wherever there is NFC (unless its stupid CVS...).

Most people STILL don't feel comfortable using any kind of electronic payment. I know one chick who works for an IT security company and EVEN SHE doesn't get it. Daft, but people just aren't used to it yet. But its changing. Small stores, with third party systems like Square, seem to be taking Apple Pay again, if the store has the appropriate dongle.

I don't see how Walmart can win this. Not in the long term.
See my other post about my experiences living outside America.

However, Walmart did 485 BILLION dollars in revenue last year. Whatever they do - people watch. Yes, Amazon is winning the war, but Walmart's revenue is still outrageously high and they are an important player. Their purchase of Jet.com is transforming them, as well.

You're right, though. To anyone who lives outside the US, NFC is usable just about everywhere and this article doesn't mean too much.
 
No. CVS has been able to track purchases for over a decade now b/c customers have to scan their CVS promotion card (or enter phone#) to get any "sale" prices or quarterly cash back. Plenty of companies that offer Apple Pay also have a promotion card too which you have to use for sales, discounts, free food, or other bonuses.

Walmart and CVS don't take ApplePay because each sees it as less expensive to have their own payment system. Perhaps if NFC payment become truly popular in the U.S. they will have to change their strategy. But for now they have no incentive to turn on NFC payments or install NFC consoles, as the case might warrant.

That theory might hold up if CVS didn’t have NFC readers in every single store and hadn’t accepted Apple Pay for a few weeks at launch only to quickly disable it. It would cost them exactly $0 to enable the readers again; far less than it likely cost to develop their own, ******** payment system. Obviously they have a financial incentive to refuse NFC payments.
 
There are 4774 Walmarts that accept Walmart Pay and how many hundreds of thousands of stores that accept Apple Pay? What a stupid, misleading article.
 
I wrote this post last night in the Chipotle thread that basically summarizes why NFC in the US is such a cluster. Until that changes, most people simply aren't going to bother with any NFC (or possibly even MST) based system.

In the US Apple was counting on the fact that because of new Visa regulations that went into effect in October 2016 all companies where going to have to upgrade their terminals. Almost all new terminals manufactured have the required NFC chips. In the US if a company does not have a chip terminal, Visa is holding the company liable for any fraud that occurs. Before last October as long as the signature on the credit card receipt matched the one on file with the card issuing bank, the company that took payment for the card would not be held liable for fraudulent transactions.

Part of the security in the new chip based card (and Apple Pay) is the actual account number is not transmitted to the retailer. A one time use number is sent instead. This makes it very difficult for companies to store your credit card number and develop a lifetime purchase history for you. What Apple was not counting on was that this purchase history data was so important to the retailers that they would decide to accept the liability shift for fraudulent transactions instead of giving up this purchase history data. Even when the retailer has upgraded the terminals they are turning of the chip reader and the NFC capabilities to preserve your purchase history data.

The deadline was October 2015, not 2016. Also, a lot of places have chip disabled because they haven't been certified to run those transactions yet, not because of customer data collection. (If they didn't want to enable either, why bother spending the money buying the terminals?)

This the main reason WM doesn't like Apple Pay, they can't track you when you use it because every time you pay, the retailer gets a random token and not your CC#.

Walmart famously hates Visa/MC. While Walmart Pay lets you use a CC (probably because of customer demand), I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually add an ACH option in the future and incentivize people to use it.

Where do you live where only Walgreens has NFC? All Starbucks stores accept Apple Pay now, all McDonalds, most Subways, a bunch of other fast food places, various big retailers...it’s more likely a location accepts it than doesn’t at this point. And most small businesses accept NFC, at least in New England (that includes Square).

Even if the merchant theoretically does accept Apple Pay, good luck getting a lot of these places to let you use it. By the time I walk people through running it, I might as well have given them my card.

Walmart and CVS don't take ApplePay because each sees it as less expensive to have their own payment system. Perhaps if NFC payment become truly popular in the U.S. they will have to change their strategy. But for now they have no incentive to turn on NFC payments or install NFC consoles, as the case might warrant.

It still costs a fair bit to develop something from scratch. However, as noted above, their own systems do eventually open the possibility of bypassing Visa/MC entirely.

What I don't get... you can pay in the US with chip + pin.

Why would you go through the trouble of scrolling through screens or folders, launch an app, scan bar code and pay .. instead of insert debit/credit card and enter pin code or even easier... hold card next to reader and let NFC handle the rest (you don't need an iPhone for wireless transactions, provided there's NFC on the banking card).

Welcome to the future.... QR codes ?

Contactless cards are seen as highly insecure in the US; most banks will never implement them as a result (though I could be wrong). The few that do are basically on an opt-in basis.

Also, you joke about the QR code thing but a fair number of developing countries (India and China for example) went with those. Considering that the US basically has a Third World financial system, I wouldn't be surprised if an American version of WeChat or Alipay ends up winning out eventually. (Hell, Visa even has a US-specific QR code standard and supports their use by merchants and banks.)

The most frustrating holdout has been restaurants, where it's a "service" to take your card back to their cashier station to do the charge.

Unfortunately, that's unlikely to change any time soon. Not only because chip and signature makes wireless terminals unjustifiable for most restaurants, but because the few places that have tried them found that their customers actually hate those (and had to go back to taking cards away as a result). Maybe if PIN becomes required, we'll be more accepting of paying at the front since we already do that for Denny's and some other places.
 
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You consider 0.15% to be greedy? I wonder, what do you think of the typical 3% retailers get charged? Or the fact that 0.15% isn’t in addition to existing charges (it’s included, essentially reducing a typical 3% to 2.85%).

Heck, we pay even more percentage in local sales taxes. So what? Has nothing to do with what Apple charges.

Unlike the credit card networks and banks, there are no Apple servers involved during a contactless transaction. (*)

So yeah, anything over 0.0% is greedy. And in many places around the world, such as the EU, bank fees are capped at 0.22% or so. No way can they pay Apple 0.15% and only get a 0.07% remainder. That's why we didn't see mass quick adoption of Apple Pay by those banks. Apple had to lower its demand enormously first.

Moreover, contactless fraud is only about 0.007% in chip'd countries. So there's no incentive to pay Apple twenty times that for more user security either. That's partly why Australian banks are holding back. Why should Apple profit off the work the banks did to add chips and NFC payments in Oz?

(*) Now where a fee DOES make sense, is with online website payments where Apple DOES get involved. Fraud is huge there, and a validated user is much more valuable.

We get that you do not like Apple, but offering retail customers an incentive to use Apple Pay would not be the best way to increase its use, and would mostly just pay people who already use it.

We get that some of you will defend Apple no matter what, even if they sell us as products to our own banks :rolleyes:.

Seriously, my thought at the time was that a kickback would give people an incentive to buy an iPhone over another device.

However, right now in the US, if you're really serious about wanting to do contactless payments, your best choice is to buy a Samsung phone with its multi-mode contactless abilities.
 
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