Now it is getting interesting. Guys reported that none of their routes past watchOS 9.2 that they recorded with WorkOutDoors were offered as race routes. First conclusion was: race route ignores workouts from 3rd party apps. With your observation this seems wrong now.
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WatchOS 9 beta... anyone try the new running features?
- Thread starter canyonblue737
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Interesting indeed. This observation is consistent with what I’m seeing that none of the new routes done post 9.2 upgrade appear. Also agree that it’s quite surprising that you are presented with Race Routes done with WorkOutDoors app.
An update:So I have a disappointing update so far. I ran a specific 3mile loop twice. I ran the first one a few days ago and the second one just yesterday afternoon. It’s now the following morning and I don’t see that route pop up as a race route
This afternoon, I realised that for this specific 3 mile loop, the two times I ran them I was using a the pacer feature and I wondered if that has anything to do with them not being recognised as race routes. Uncertain about that, I decided to run the same route but this time as “open” (no pacer, no specific alerts, nothing). I did that this afternoon and now it’s evening. And guess what? The route IS showing up as something I can race against!!!
Awesome, right? Now, I don’t know whether or not having run another one of the same route using ”open” changed anything. It could be just conincidental?
So, yes, I do have a race route that came up post-WatchOS 9.2 and these routes were only ran after WatchOS 9.2.
Also, it looks like to view all 3 race routes now available to me, I have to filter by Race Routes. If I filter by Suggested, only 2 race routes show up. Perhaps Suggested only lets up to 2 race routes show? Not sure.
This is slightly more encouraging now. I have another loop in mind that I want to have as a race route and it’s a 4.5 mile loop that goes through a flood plain around my neighbourhood and finally back to my home. I guess I’ll have to run that at least 2 times to see if it’ll show up as a race route. In the recent past few years, 4.5 miles is considered a long run for me, a VERY far cry from the days when running 13.1 miles for a weekly long run was both pretty easy, smooth, and fast. LOL. How aging happens…..
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Here’s a screenshot. As you can see these are almost identical except 200m at the end. They were both done in the same week (Monday and Friday). Recorded using standard workout app. But yet this route does not appear as a route on my watch.
I only have one route show - regardless of the settings I use in the workout selection. The route that’s showing has been showing for a couple of weeks now. The route in the screenshot above does not show at all.
Well, that's frustrating. I'm going to try to create another race route situation by running the 4.5 mile loop, but this could take me a couple of weeks (LOL) because I don't plan to run this loop more than once a week. Let's see if that route appears as a 4th race route.
Hmm...alternatively maybe there's another shorter route I can create, something that I don't usually run. Let's see....
Thanks to all for your updates!
My hyptothesis: I get no new race routes, only updates to routes I have run before watchOS 9.2 was released.
I ran a course on Dec 17th for the very first time, about 23km. Surely, it has segments in there, I was running before. But well, I run for quite a while now and touch enough segments over and over again. But this route is still quite different from what I normally run.
Today, I ran this route again. Mode: "Open Outdoor run". Careful to take exactly the same route. Compared the run afterwards with mygpsfiles and no notable deviation can be recognized.
Distances: 23,44km and today 23,42km.
Watch was on charger in the meantime, iPhone in distance. Force-quit the training app, rebooted AW.
No race route was created since this morning.
Really disappointed.
I ran a course on Dec 17th for the very first time, about 23km. Surely, it has segments in there, I was running before. But well, I run for quite a while now and touch enough segments over and over again. But this route is still quite different from what I normally run.
Today, I ran this route again. Mode: "Open Outdoor run". Careful to take exactly the same route. Compared the run afterwards with mygpsfiles and no notable deviation can be recognized.
Distances: 23,44km and today 23,42km.
Watch was on charger in the meantime, iPhone in distance. Force-quit the training app, rebooted AW.
No race route was created since this morning.
Really disappointed.
for what it's worth - I tried today to run a route that I had done once with WorkOutDoors, now exactly for the second time also with WorkOutDoors... As @Akrapovic was indicating that he had some available routes that were done only with WOD, I thought it was worth a try... but no luck. Still no race routes for me 😒
How do people find the running power and stride length/oscillation data?
I have an S5 and they are not available on it.
I have an S5 and they are not available on it.
I find it consistent. Was running with Stryd before and I see no differnce that matters.
I may be getting a little lost regarding your situation, so bear with me if I'm misinterpreting.
In one of your other post, you said: "As you can see these are almost identical except 200m at the end". I wonder if the difference in the 200m portion at the end -- which is a significant deviation for a 200m segment -- is enough for Apple to not consider those the same route? We don't know what the tolerances for route differences are between Apple's algorithm and Healthfit's.
To that end, might I suggest running a more exact route 2 or 3 times and, perhaps to reduce possible frustration, a shorter one? That way you can still test, do it more quickly, and not feel like certain effort was wasted trying to get Apple's route algorithm to recognize the route as a possible race route.
In my first use of race route (i.e., using it to race; not trying to get a route to become a race route), I had run past a turning point just say maybe about 15 feet (4.5 metres) and the Watch told me I was off-route. This was one of my routes where I have multiple turning points that I use and I can't remember for this particular race route whether it was "this yellow pillar" at this spot or the "next yellow pillar" which is just a few meters away that I turn around. And this route has many pillars and posts that I use for turning around. Given that when I was racing that the Watch alerted I was off route when I deviated just about 10 to 15 feet, looks to me the tolerances might be small?
So I did a little exploration of Healthfit's "Similar" routes feature. While I've encountered it a few times, I hadn't looked at it much.
I think Healthfit's tolerance for "similar" is much much lower. I have only ran this route exactly just 3 times. But Healthfit identified that I have 24 similar routes to the one I'm comparing it with! I looked at what it identified. Some of these are vastly different, in my eyes. For instance, one of the routes identified as similar actually leads off to the east (whereas my race route goes to the west in one segment) for probably at least 300 meters before turning back, and this segment is not part of the route I was trying to get into Race Route.
So these routes may be similar enough to compare in a certain sense, but I would say they are definitely not similar enough to be considered as comparable routes for racing against each other. The elevation is even different, not just the direction of a segment of the run! My race route has goes up an incline before reaching a turning point. One of the identified "similar" routes is absolutely FLAT before reaching the turning point.
I think Healthfit's tolerance for "similar" is much much lower. I have only ran this route exactly just 3 times. But Healthfit identified that I have 24 similar routes to the one I'm comparing it with! I looked at what it identified. Some of these are vastly different, in my eyes. For instance, one of the routes identified as similar actually leads off to the east (whereas my race route goes to the west in one segment) for probably at least 300 meters before turning back, and this segment is not part of the route I was trying to get into Race Route.
So these routes may be similar enough to compare in a certain sense, but I would say they are definitely not similar enough to be considered as comparable routes for racing against each other. The elevation is even different, not just the direction of a segment of the run! My race route has goes up an incline before reaching a turning point. One of the identified "similar" routes is absolutely FLAT before reaching the turning point.
Sorry I think I've explained myself badly.
I've now done the run 4 times. 2 of those finish within 10 metres of each other. A third is within 100m, and the last is within 200m. So in this case the runs were identical except that little bit at the finish. You may be right that the tolerances are super small - however, the 2 which are within 10 metres of the finish should really be classed as the same route. It's almost impossible to get the distance closer than within 10 metres as the watch doesn't display that data. I did 10.23 and 10.24. On my wrist I stopped both at 10.23 but then one displayed higher.
If the tolerances are indeed so fine that this 10.23 vs 10.24 is enough to have them classified as different routes, I'd suggest it's almost impossible to do the same route twice within that tolerance. Especially with GPS inaccuracies through trees, bridges etc. And as your runs get longer, the chances of having an inaccuracy are higher.
I'd suggest that this feature is just broken at the moment.
Would be good to get some acknowledgment from Apple that this is a known issue. Are they even aware? I mean - they put this out there as a "major new feature" but it doesn't work.
I'm installing watchOS9.3 public beta. I'll try and do 2 more 10ks this week and see if it picks them up.
I think so too, at least when it comes to new routes.
Also, the deviation tolerance seems higher than what @msackey suggested. Last week Monday, I tried Footpath and for that, I deviated slightly (about 15m in one direction) from my programmed route, which is also a recognized race route.
Still, after the run, the existing race route was updated, so the algorithm seems to have detected, that this is a known route.
Today, I ran the route again without deviations and shortly after I have seen the workout in Fitness+ on iPhone, the race route on the AW was updated with "Last run today".
10 meters deviation is probably fine. 100m is to be quite a bit.
There’s either a bug with the feature or some kind of old setting is preventing the feature from working correctly, like an old cache or setting from pre-9.2.
Good shout the cache idea. To test that's the case a factory reset to 9.2 would possibly flush that. But I am not brave enough to do that one!
I would not do that. A guy on the Apple discussion forum unpaired and paired his watch and it did not fix the problem.
Too much hassle for a very small chance that it helps.
If I understand the concept correctly, this is two different routes in their view
But I have 2 that finish with 10m of each other, which is as accurate as you can get with the metrics the watch gets. A third that finishes with 100m of those 2, and the 4th that finishes within 200m of those 2.If I understand the concept correctly, this is two different routes in their view
There is enough there to see these as the same routes.