iPhone 17 Weaker demand for Air and fold

[bakron1]

I have seen the media saying the Air sales are low, but I actually expected something this this. The Air is a niche device and anyone including myself accepted the shortfalls such as battery life and the camera before we jumped in head first.

Myself, I bought the Air because I loved the lightweight thin device which has a great forum factor, fits in my front pocket, hardly know it’s there. The screen is beautiful, the speed is more then I need, it’s smooth and fluid.

I use my device for emails, social media and most importantly, a phone. I can easily hold the device on a long call without my hand falling asleep while holding it.

I think Apple was well aware of its limitations and are using the Air to develop future thinner products and maybe even everyone’s dream phone, an Apple foldable.

I do feel if they would have made the price point $749-799 instead of $999.00 we would see the Air selling like hotcakes. I may be off track and thinking outside the box here, but if Apple were to give the folks who bought the Air a $249.00 or $200 credit and lower the price of the Air, I feel the sales would take off and they wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough, just my two cents worth.

 

[Donkey Man]

I have seen the media saying the Air sales are low, but I actually expected something this this. The Air is a niche device and anyone including myself accepted the shortfalls such as battery life and the camera before we jumped in head first.

Myself, I bought the Air because I loved the lightweight thin device which has a great forum factor, fits in my front pocket, hardly know it’s there. The screen is beautiful, the speed is more then I need, it’s smooth and fluid.

I use my device for emails, social media and most importantly, a phone. I can easily hold the device on a long call without my hand falling asleep while holding it.

I think Apple was well aware of its limitations and are using the Air to develop future thinner products and maybe even everyone’s dream phone, an Apple foldable.

I do feel if they would have made the price point $749-799 instead of $999.00 we would see the Air selling like hotcakes. I may be off track and thinking outside the box here, but if Apple were to give the folks who bought the Air a $249.00 or $200 credit and lower the price of the Air, I feel the sales would take off and they wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough, just my two cents worth.

There’s no “shortfall” in battery life - the Air is way better than my old XR, and even better than my friend’s 16. In fact, I am getting TWO full days of battery life without needing to recharge under normal usage.

Camera is also fine, unless you rely on iPhone cameras for a living.

Awfully fast, razor slim and with great battery life, the Air is by far the best iPhone released since at least the X.

 

[Ctrlos]

There’s no “shortfall” in battery life - the Air is way better than my old XR, and even better than my friend’s 16. In fact, I am getting TWO full days of battery life without needing to recharge under normal usage.

Camera is also fine, unless you rely on iPhone cameras for a living.

Awfully fast, razor slim and with great battery life, the Air is by far the best iPhone released since at least the X.

Its also worth noting that Halide easily solves the Macro dilemma. The main sensor on the Air actually focuses closer than that of the Pro. Using the Ultrawide for macro is nonsensical because you have to be 3cm from the subject making it impossible to photograph insects with.

 

[JPack]

I do feel if they would have made the price point $749-799 instead of $999.00 we would see the Air selling like hotcakes. I may be off track and thinking outside the box here, but if Apple were to give the folks who bought the Air a $249.00 or $200 credit and lower the price of the Air, I feel the sales would take off and they wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough, just my two cents worth.

Price isn't the barrier because even at the same price, it's missing battery life and cameras.

Side by side, people are asking, "Why would I pay $799 for Air which offers 27 hours of battery life with one camera? The iPhone 17 next to it, is also $799 but has 30 hours of battery and two cameras." There's a not a good answer to that unless you really think weight and thickness are a problem - and most people clearly don't feel that way.

Ultrawide provides a field of view that is much similar to human vision. Macro is obvious for anyone taking pictures of documents. Many people use those lenses which is why many complain about lack of it.

 

[Donkey Man]

Price isn't the barrier because even at the same price, it's missing battery life and cameras.

Side by side, people are asking, "Why would I pay $799 for Air which offers 27 hours of battery life with one camera? The iPhone 17 next to it, is also $799 but has 30 hours of battery and two cameras." There's a not a good answer to that unless you really think weight and thickness are a problem - and most people clearly don't feel that way.

Ultrawide provides a field of view that is much similar to human vision. Macro is obvious for anyone taking pictures of documents. Many people use those lenses which is why many complain about lack of it.

Again, missing what “battery life”? Is this a “let’s repeat a lie until it becomes true” moment?

 

[jntdroid]

Price isn't the barrier because even at the same price, it's missing battery life and cameras.

Side by side, people are asking, "Why would I pay $799 for Air which offers 27 hours of battery life with one camera? The iPhone 17 next to it, is also $799 but has 30 hours of battery and two cameras." There's a not a good answer to that unless you really think weight and thickness are a problem - and most people clearly don't feel that way.

Ultrawide provides a field of view that is much similar to human vision. Macro is obvious for anyone taking pictures of documents. Many people use those lenses which is why many complain about lack of it.

You're going to die on this hill aren't you...

You could also say, "I'm paying $799 for a bigger screen without the heft of a big phone, and not a big loss in battery life or camera experience."

Your spin isn't that different than the Air owners' spin here if we're being totally honest with ourselves, because there's a spectrum of personal preference built into all of this.

 

[JPack]

Again, missing what “battery life”? Is this a “let’s repeat a lie until it becomes true” moment?

You're thinking from a "tech nerd" perspective, comparing it to XR and 16.

In the real world, nobody does that. Buyers look at the marketing and the in-store displays, then ask, "Why should I pay for less battery life?"

 

[JPack]

You're going to die on this hill aren't you...

You could also say, "I'm paying $799 for a bigger screen without the heft of a big phone, and not a big loss in battery life or camera experience."

Your spin isn't that different than the Air owners' spin here if we're being totally honest with ourselves, because there's a spectrum of personal preference built into all of this.

Not sure what "hill" you're referring to.

You're trying to fight up the hill using non-intuitive logic by explaining Air is an attractive device. Meanwhile iPhone 17/Pro/Max remains out of stock globally and Air is unsold.

Of course there are personal preferences. The point is, the bulk of the buyers have voted for their preferences using dollars, yuan, euros, etc. The stock-out situation and today's con call with Tim Cook supports this.

 

[bakron1]

There’s no “shortfall” in battery life - the Air is way better than my old XR, and even better than my friend’s 16. In fact, I am getting TWO full days of battery life without needing to recharge under normal usage.

Camera is also fine, unless you rely on iPhone cameras for a living.

Awfully fast, razor slim and with great battery life, the Air is by far the best iPhone released since at least the X.

I think you misunderstood my comment, I love the Air and was making my comparison with the current iPhone 17 and the 17 Pro models.

This is a niche device, period and yes I don’t think they should have priced it at $999, a $749-799 price point would have drawn more people to the device and I think if they were to do something to spark sales, that would make the device sell like hotcakes.

I get folks asking me about the Air every time I have it in my hand and they want to hold it and ask me many questions about it which I always give them my honest opinion and we’ll continue to promote the Air.

 

[bbates123]

Again, missing what “battery life”? Is this a “let’s repeat a lie until it becomes true” moment?

He seems to have a personal vendetta against the Air, constantly repeating the same tired tropes, and I don't know why. He refuses to see why it represents a fantastic value to a subset of users. Some people just can't take the blinders off. I've given up, it's not worth sucking up my energy.

 

[jntdroid]

Not sure what "hill" you're referring to.

The "Air is a failure" hill.

You're trying to fight up the hill using non-intuitive logic by explaining Air is an attractive device. Meanwhile iPhone 17/Pro/Max remains out of stock globally and Air is unsold.

I'm not fighing up any hill, I don't have an Air and don't prefer the Air (I tried one for a bit).

Maybe your original point has been lost in the mix here, and maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to think you have the high ground every time you leave a comment, and I'm trying to point out that some of your points are tainted with personal preference assumptions just like those that you're arguing with. 🤷‍♂️

 

[JPack]

The "Air is a failure" hill.



I'm not fighing up any hill, I don't have an Air and don't prefer the Air (I tried one for a bit).

Maybe your original point has been lost in the mix here, and maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to think you have the high ground every time you leave a comment, and I'm trying to point out that some of your points are tainted with personal preference assumptions just like those that you're arguing with. 🤷‍♂️

So the Air is not a failure? It's not exactly a fringe idea. Everything so far supports it.

Some posters repeat ad nauseam that iPhone Air offers a unique set of features and is desirable to some. Well, no sheet, Sherlock. That's a given and not up for debate. Of course everything has a market, including unicycles and Windows Phones. The debate question is, what makes iPhone Air undesirable to *most people*?

Comparing battery life to last year's model is ridiculous. If it's such a no-brainer, why doesn't Apple do that? Well, because most people buying this year's phone aren't going accept last year's goalposts. Same with suggesting Halide as a partial workaround for lack of ultrawide. Most people buy iPhone for its simplicity. People are not going to buy a $60 app as a partial workaround.

This thread's topic is "Weaker demand for Air and Fold." Emotionally sensitive people who don't want to face tough debates shouldn't be viewing this thread.

 

[mjpearce023]

So the Air is not a failure? It's not exactly a fringe idea. Everything so far supports it.

Some posters repeat ad nauseam that iPhone Air offers a unique set of features and is desirable to some. Well, no sheet, Sherlock. That's a given and not up for debate. Of course everything has a market, including unicycles and Windows Phones. The debate question is, what makes iPhone Air undesirable to *most people*?

Comparing battery life to last year's model is ridiculous. If it's such a no-brainer, why doesn't Apple do that? Well, because most people buying this year's phone aren't going accept last year's goalposts. Same with suggesting Halide as a partial workaround for lack of ultrawide. Most people buy iPhone for its simplicity. People are not going to buy a $60 app as a partial workaround.

This thread's topic is "Weaker demand for Air and Fold." Emotionally sensitive people who don't want to face tough debates shouldn't be viewing this thread.

I think its a little early to declare the Air a failure considering its been out for 6 weeks but I know there were a couple articles declaring no demand and huge cuts in production so I understand the confirmation bias says that its a failure because that's what you ultimately want. There was another article that stated apple hasn't cut production but I'm sure we throw that out since its not confirming what you believe. If it does better than the plus I wouldn't call it a failure but I don't really know how many apple expected to sell. Either way it doesn't take away my enjoyment of the phone.
I do actually agree with some of your points in this thread. What you're saying is the general public are not "techies" and really don't have the technical knowledge to be able to determine if things missing from the Air will affect their day to day usage and you're 100% correct. Air owners on this forum cant expect the general public to analyze what's missing from the air to determine if its the right device for them like we do. Most of the people I know who own a pro got it because its the best iPhone. They couldn't tell you what the other 2 cameras are or what they are used for. They aren't going to look at the air and think "how much do I really use the ultrawide or the telephoto lens?" They have no idea but they do know that 3 is greater than 2 and 2 is greater than 1. They don't care if the battery life is good enough to get them through the day, they just know that 27 is less than 30 which is less than 33. There are a lot of people that just want the best battery and camera and don't care about the design because they are going to slap a thick case on it as soon as they get it so regardless of the price, the air was never going to make an impact for those users.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm not sure why this is confusing to folks.

This side by side comparison with specs so prominently laid out is exactly the sort of thing a normal consumer will respond to. It's no shock this would be impacting Air sales.

I'm surprised Apple has them staged side by side like this.

 

[joshwithachance]

You know what’s really interesting about all this discourse about the Air not selling well? It doesn’t impact my personal experience with the device in the slightest. This is EASILY the “best” (a subjective term) iPhone I’ve ever owned.

 

[Ludatyk]

I'm not sure why this is confusing to folks.

This side by side comparison with specs so prominently laid out is exactly the sort of thing a normal consumer will respond to. It's no shock this would be impacting Air sales.

I'm surprised Apple has them staged side by side like this.

Would you rather them... not disclose it? Consumers will come asking about battery life regardless given the thinness of the device.

If anything, I don't think battery life is impacting the sales... it's more so what you get for the price tag, one camera and not dual speakers.

 

[mjpearce023]

I'm not sure why this is confusing to folks.

This side by side comparison with specs so prominently laid out is exactly the sort of thing a normal consumer will respond to. It's no shock this would be impacting Air sales.

I'm surprised Apple has them staged side by side like this.

I dont think its confusing, it was a question of what would win out between in hand feel and features and it seems for most people features is number 1. I kind of thought once in stores and people could put their hands the air it would do better but according to 2 analyst I was incorrect.

 

[jntdroid]

I'm not sure why this is confusing to folks.

This side by side comparison with specs so prominently laid out is exactly the sort of thing a normal consumer will respond to. It's no shock this would be impacting Air sales.

I'm surprised Apple has them staged side by side like this.

Because they know most people will see something over 24 hours and be fine with it. I even heard someone in the Apple store the other day look at the Pro Max (on that exact type of display) and say "who needs a phone to last 39 hours? that's crazy". At the same time, I know there are people that will say "I want the most battery no matter what". Point being, there are both types, and Apple knows this.

So again, we're all inserting our own biases and personal preferences into this discussion, on both sides. Most people that are willing to engage in a forum discussion over this stuff are not the mainstream population.

 

[Krabba]

You know what’s really interesting about all this discourse about the Air not selling well? It doesn’t impact my personal experience with the device in the slightest. This is EASILY the “best” (a subjective term) iPhone I’ve ever owned.

This. “Best”, “compromise”, “value”, etc. are ALL subjective terms when discussing what an individual believes to be the product for them.

If the rumors are accurate, production adjustments are often made after product launches. Is the Air on its death bed? I seriously doubt it. Sales could well pop after a few months/holiday and production is ramped back up. At a minimum there will be another version come September ‘26 if we’re using history as our guide.

 

[JPack]

Because they know most people will see something over 24 hours and be fine with it. I even heard someone in the Apple store the other day look at the Pro Max (on that exact type of display) and say "who needs a phone to last 39 hours? that's crazy". At the same time, I know there are people that will say "I want the most battery no matter what". Point being, there are both types, and Apple knows this.

So again, we're all inserting our own biases and personal preferences into this discussion, on both sides. Most people that are willing to engage in a forum discussion over this stuff are not the mainstream population.

If that were true, Apple wouldn't need to list MagSafe run time for the iPhone Air. Apple would also stop increasing battery life numbers at 24 hours. They'd focus engineering efforts elsewhere. But guess what? Every year, Apple touts higher and higher battery life numbers. So clearly, most consumers are not "fine" with it. Consumers would prefer to charge once a week if they would get that option.





You know which device Apple thinks buyers are "fine" with battery life? iPad. That's why the "hours" has been stuck at 10 forever and for every model.



These are not biases or preferences, it's inductive reasoning.

 

[jntdroid]

If that were true, Apple wouldn't need to list MagSafe run time for the iPhone Air. Apple would also stop increasing battery life numbers at 24 hours. They'd focus engineering efforts elsewhere. But guess what? Every year, Apple touts higher and higher battery life numbers. So clearly, most consumers are not "fine" with it. Consumers would prefer to charge once a week if they would get that option.

View attachment 2574475



You know which device Apple thinks buyers are "fine" with battery life? iPad. That's why the "hours" has been stuck at 10 forever and for every model.

View attachment 2574476

These are not biases or preferences, it's inductive reasoning.

You just want to argue, but I'll bite. 🤦‍♂️

The post I was responding to was stating he was surprised Apple would post battery life hours right next to each other like that. I'll be a little more clear so you don't fill in gaps with your assumptions. In response to that, and that alone, I was pointing out it's because they know that for some people the value-add decreases once you hit a certain point. When I stated "24 hours", yes I pulled that number from my a#$, but I was trying to make a point. I don't actually know what that number is, and it likely differs person to person. But at some point having your phone last longer becomes less and less valuable if there are trade-offs that go with it (mainly size/weight right now).

So they know that showing those battery life numbers isn't a negative for some people. That doesn't mean they shouldn't tout when a phone can last 39 hours. That doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for better and better battery life. I was simply responding to the previous comment, but man you made some jumps in there that I wasn't saying at all.

Based on your logic, nobody should ever choose anything but the Pro Max. But using inductive reasoning, it's logical to state that Apple knows that some of their customer base will value some things over another and won't care as much about 39 hours vs 27 hours, which is why they have no issue being transparent about the differences.

 

[JPack]

You just want to argue, but I'll bite. 🤦‍♂️

The post I was responding to was stating he was surprised Apple would post battery life hours right next to each other like that. I'll be a little more clear so you don't fill in gaps with your assumptions. In response to that, and that alone, I was pointing out it's because they know that for some people the value-add decreases once you hit a certain point. When I stated "24 hours", yes I pulled that number from my a#$, but I was trying to make a point. I don't actually know what that number is, and it likely differs person to person. But at some point having your phone last longer becomes less and less valuable if there are trade-offs that go with it (mainly size/weight right now).

So they know that showing those battery life numbers isn't a negative for some people. That doesn't mean they shouldn't tout when a phone can last 39 hours. That doesn't mean they shouldn't strive for better and better battery life. I was simply responding to the previous comment, but man you made some jumps in there that I wasn't saying at all.

Based on your logic, nobody should ever choose anything but the Pro Max. But using inductive reasoning, it's logical to state that Apple knows that some of their customer base will value some things over another and won't care as much about 39 hours vs 27 hours, which is why they have no issue being transparent about the differences.

We're pretty much talking past each other. You're saying "some" people don't see the 27 hours as a negative. There will always be "some" people who take that view. I'd argue "many" see it as a negative because many surveys indicate battery life, performance, and features are the reasons why people upgrade smartphones.

 

[JPack]

I think its a little early to declare the Air a failure considering its been out for 6 weeks but I know there were a couple articles declaring no demand and huge cuts in production so I understand the confirmation bias says that its a failure because that's what you ultimately want. There was another article that stated apple hasn't cut production but I'm sure we throw that out since its not confirming what you believe. If it does better than the plus I wouldn't call it a failure but I don't really know how many apple expected to sell. Either way it doesn't take away my enjoyment of the phone.

Mizuho, Nikkei, and Kuo said production cut. One lone voice from TD Cowen said no cut.

Let's read what TD Cowen also said. They claimed iPhone 17 series production remains "stable" at 54 million, with a similarly static forecast of 79 million for the December quarter. Given what we're seeing with Pro Max and base model lead times, along with Tim Cook saying they're supply constrained more than a dozen times during yesterday's conference call, does TD Cowen appear credible? TD just raised the stock target price from $275 to $325 after hearing the con call. That's not confirmation bias, but rather it's clear TD Cowen was flat out wrong.

I do actually agree with some of your points in this thread. What you're saying is the general public are not "techies" and really don't have the technical knowledge to be able to determine if things missing from the Air will affect their day to day usage and you're 100% correct. Air owners on this forum cant expect the general public to analyze what's missing from the air to determine if its the right device for them like we do. Most of the people I know who own a pro got it because its the best iPhone. They couldn't tell you what the other 2 cameras are or what they are used for. They aren't going to look at the air and think "how much do I really use the ultrawide or the telephoto lens?" They have no idea but they do know that 3 is greater than 2 and 2 is greater than 1. They don't care if the battery life is good enough to get them through the day, they just know that 27 is less than 30 which is less than 33. There are a lot of people that just want the best battery and camera and don't care about the design because they are going to slap a thick case on it as soon as they get it so regardless of the price, the air was never going to make an impact for those users.

Yes, absolutely.

The argument from some posters is, believe that Apple sells simplicity, credibility, and "it just works." On the other hand, also believe Apple's battery life numbers are not credible (trust some fringe YouTube video instead), a missing camera is fine (the user simply can't take certain photos), and mono speaker is fine (don't forget your AirPods). So it's clear the Air buyers will have to be extreme enthusiasts, because most mainstream buyers aren't going to deal with those discrepancies.

 

[mjpearce023]

Mizuho, Nikkei, and Kuo said production cut. One lone voice from TD Cowen said no cut.

Let's read what TD Cowen also said. They claimed iPhone 17 series production remains "stable" at 54 million, with a similarly static forecast of 79 million for the December quarter. Given what we're seeing with Pro Max and base model lead times, along with Tim Cook saying they're supply constrained more than a dozen times during yesterday's conference call, does TD Cowen appear credible? TD just raised the stock target price from $275 to $325 after hearing the con call. That's not confirmation bias, but rather it's clear TD Cowen was flat out wrong.



Yes, absolutely.

The argument from some posters is, believe that Apple sells simplicity, credibility, and "it just works." On the other hand, also believe Apple's battery life numbers are not credible (trust some fringe YouTube video instead), a missing camera is fine (the user simply can't take certain photos), and mono speaker is fine (don't forget your AirPods). So it's clear the Air buyers will have to be extreme enthusiasts, because most mainstream buyers aren't going to deal with those discrepancies.

I’m just saying there is 1 conflicting report and it’s still early on so calling the air a failure seems a bit premature. I’m fine with saying there’s a high probability that the air is underperforming but I’m not waiving the white flag just yet. I also realize my bias because of how much I love using the phone. If it is a failure and we don’t see an air 2 I’ll come back and give you your flowers and admit defeat.

Did your wife end up keeping her air?

 

[JPack]

I’m just saying there is 1 conflicting report and it’s still early on so calling the air a failure seems a bit premature. I’m fine with saying there’s a high probability that the air is underperforming but I’m not waiving the white flag just yet. I also realize my bias because of how much I love using the phone. If it is a failure and we don’t see an air 2 I’ll come back and give you your flowers and admit defeat.

Did your wife end up keeping her air?

She loved how thin it was but couldn't get used to the width and height. She's coming from an iPhone XS and never wanted to upgrade and only agreed because she wanted better camera quality and Live Translation features. She's using a base 17 now and appreciates the UW camera for taking craft pics to post on IG and Etsy.